Did anyone get a friend or family to stay to help when you left?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I told my wife recently I was considering divorce.  Her meltdown was very terrifying and also very guilt-inducing and judgement-confusing for me.

It's clear that if I end up needing to leave, that I should not remain in the home with her after breaking the news.  She is not a self-harmer nor does she ever talk about suicide, but I feel like I should arrange for someone to stay in the house with her after I break the news for her safety or in case she damages anything.

Has anyone else every done something similar and if so, how did it go?  We are going to start couples therapy so maybe she will come to understand how much things are deteriorating and it won't be such a terrible, dramatic shock should I need to go.

[adventurer]

I told my wife recently I was considering divorce.  Her meltdown was very terrifying and also very guilt-inducing and judgement-confusing for me.

It's clear that if I end up needing to leave, that I should not remain in the home with her after breaking the news.  She is not a self-harmer nor does she ever talk about suicide, but I feel like I should arrange for someone to stay in the house with her after I break the news for her safety or in case she damages anything.

Has anyone else every done something similar and if so, how did it go?  We are going to start couples therapy so maybe she will come to understand how much things are deteriorating and it won't be such a terrible, dramatic shock should I need to go.

[ForeverDad]

One important thing you learn here from reading our experiences is that there is a distinct possibility that YOU may not be safe staying in the same house with her.  Ponder that.  It is not for nothing that I say this.  You are concerned for her but who is concerned for YOU?  Odds are, she's not.  She may feel a need to retaliate, reject/abandon you before you can reject/abandon her.  How?  By either framing you for DV or making false* allegations of DV.  Women often get default preferred status when they claim to be victims regardless whether the men are actually the real target.

*True or false often is not a concern to police, courts and other professionals.  They deal in "founded", "unsubstantiated" and rarely "unfounded".  And if she makes one allegation that fails, she is allowed to keep making more allegations even if they fail too.  Mine made a variety of allegation to a variety of agencies for years until eventually she lost some credibility.  A common saying here is, Persons with poor behaviors seldom face consequences and people with good behaviors seldom get credit.  Police just want to resolve the immediate incident.  If their procedure is to cart off one of the people in the incident, guess which gender is more likely to spend a weekend in jail?  Same with family courts, if she is claiming you are abusive and you're claiming she is abusive, guess which gender going to bear the brunt of the court's 'fix'?  Yeah.  Be aware, beware.

You may think, I'll keep it simple and not make any bad comments about her.  However, that's no guarantee she will reciprocate, likely it's not in her mental vocabulary.  She may feel she has to make you look worse than her, even lying with allegations, especially if there are children and custody issues you reveal may make her look bad.  She will 'reason', in a twisted sort of way, that if she makes enough horrendous claims that either the court will believe her over you or that you'll fold and retreat and accept whatever crumbs she decides to let you have.

While yes, you can ponder about having trusted friends to keep an eye on her - beware of her turning people who don't know you well into her "negative advocates" against you - give more attention to who will be with you to keep you safe or less exposed to allegations of misconduct.  Separation time and the time while in the divorce process are ones especially risky for us targets.  Do you get the message?  While it's okay to have concern about her, the priority is to protect yourself first.  You can't help her if you're in jail or you're restricted with a stay-away or restraining order!

[adventurer]

Thank you.  While I have never seen such behaviors from her in the past, you make some important points that I need to take very seriously.  As I've been able to slowly detach and better see the reality of our situation, I have lost a lot of trust in her and am not certain what she could be capable of.

[ForeverDad]

I'm glad to hear that.  It's not unusual around here in peer support for allegations to be made, especially if custody issues are at stake.  We often state that if it's been contemplated or threatened then it will happen, given enough time and opportunity.  However, as low as you hope it is in your case, the risk is never zero.

Be careful.  For example, if ever allegations are made and police get involved or it goes to court, then be very, very careful what you say and seek legal advice from an experienced family law attorney before making statements.  Don't make even the least little bit of an admission of guilt or abusive behaviors without legal consultation first.  Why?  First, you are not required to volunteer information that could be used against you.  Second, the officials can pick and choose what they want to use.  For example, you might say, "Yes but... ." or "Yes but I did X because she did Y and Z and so... ."  They can take the first word by itself and run with it and ignore any extenuating circumstances or poor behaviors of the other person that triggered it.  See?

[adventurer]

Yes, I see exactly what you're saying.

It's so difficult for me - I need to let go of my guilt and need to defend myself from her accusations from her about abandoning her and giving up on my promise of marriage and not caring or loving her.  She is ill and I can't get wrapped up in what she thinks about me, or even what other people might say.

Ideally, we could have an amicable split and discuss things like selling the house, alimony and our futures reasonably but it looks like if this divorce happens this is all going to have to happen the hard way.

[momtara]

Do you have children?  That might mean you should take other precautions.  And keep a tape recorder on, in general.

[adventurer]

no children, thank heaven.  in a community property no fault state so dividing assets is fairly cut and dry.  Married 9 years so just hoping I won't be stuck paying alimony for the rest of my life as she hasn't worked in 10 years and is always too 'sick' to work.

[catnap]

Do photograph the entire house, garage, etc before you leave.  Your attorney can advise the best way to document that you left the property in good shape.  If the house has to be sold, be aware that she may delay/sabotage the sale.  Have your attorney place restrictions/penalties to protect you financially--such as you are reimbursed from her portion for mortgage payments after the divorce, upkeep and anything else you pay for that concerns the home. 

Do not give her any more information about your desire to divorce your plans etc.  This may sound cruel, but forewarning her could put you in danger.  They do not reciprocate well or play nice.  You can get civil standby in most areas from the police department (you would need to see how it works in your area) when you are ready to move out.  They are a presence to keep the situation from getting out of control.  If not available, you need a third party adult present and videotaping.  Better to be safe than falsely accused. 

I have lost a lot of trust in her and am not certain what she could be capable of.

Very true, when faced with their abandonment issues. . .anything can happen.

[ForeverDad]

Do photograph the entire house, garage, etc before you leave.  Your attorney can advise the best way to document that you left the property in good shape.  If the house has to be sold, be aware that she may delay/sabotage the sale.  Have your attorney place restrictions/penalties to protect you financially--such as you are reimbursed from her portion for mortgage payments after the divorce, upkeep and anything else you pay for that concerns the home.

Do not give her any more information about your desire to divorce your plans etc.  This may sound cruel, but forewarning her could put you in danger.  They do not reciprocate well or play nice.  You can get civil standby in most areas from the police department (you would need to see how it works in your area) when you are ready to move out.  They are a presence to keep the situation from getting out of control.  If not available, you need a third party adult present and videotaping.  Better to be safe than falsely accused.

I have lost a lot of trust in her and am not certain what she could be capable of.

Very true, when faced with their abandonment issues. . .anything can happen.

If the marriage was being fixed, then of course you would share information, there must be trust for a marriage to be rescued.  But if you're contemplating divorce, you just can't share your thoughts, and strategies without giving her the opportunity and ability to sabotage you.  Really, sharing information at that point would be self-sabotaging.  Yes, we have the natural impulses to be fair and open, but when unwinding a marriage with a person who can turn against you in a flash you have to be businesslike about it and keep some things confidential.  After all, you do have a right to privacy - and a right not to be interrogated or guilted into disclosing your personal matters.

In some states reaching 10 years of marriage might be the difference between a long term marriage or not.  (Whether they count from the date you file or from the date of Final Decree, I don't know.  It ought to be the first, the filing date, because if you filed before but close to a threshold level, then the spouse who wanted to reach the longer length could just seek continuances and delays to force the divorce process to take longer.)

Around here we often refer to spousal support as being during the separation or divorce process and alimony post-decree.  I'm not sure whether that's the terminology used by the states.

These days more and more states are viewing alimony as a transitional period from married life into non-married life and therefore usually not permanent.  Think of it as a period of time to help the 'disadvantaged' spouse to find a job or get training for a job.  While 2 years of career training is reasonable and sometimes intended in orders, supporting 4 or more years of college is not common.

In my case, I have been married for 15 years when we separated and 16 years when I filed.  I don't know for sure what my state policy is but my lawyer said it was 2 months for every year.  The divorce process took almost 2 years so by the time we settled we were almost at 18 years.  So I paid her 3 years of alimony.

Tax implications:  Spousal support or alimony must be reported as taxable income by the recipient and can be deducted by the paying spouse, unless agreed otherwise.  This is the opposite of child support, which is neither taxable nor deductible.

Warning:  If you include in the divorce any claims that she is disabled, handicapped, or suffering from a mental illness you could risk the court deciding you should support her or support her longer than would otherwise be ordered.  If it is necessary to list or report poor behaviors, keep them limited to behaviors and behavior patterns - a common practice in the courts - without linking them to any specific mental illnesses unless legally advised to do so.  If you don't have children or other complicating issues, then probably it is best to keep allegations of mental illness out of the listed divorce issues to reduce risk of have extended support ordered.  Verify any such risks or strategies with your family law attorney.