she wants a break

[baconeggs]

Hi everyone,

Well,  I moved to another state away from my non diagnosed BPD girlfriend and we went limited contact,  but she contacted me after 2 weeks and we got back together and have been seeing each other every other weekend.

After only three visits,  she now tells me she needs a break.  I just left her house and drove 7 hours home today.  I get home and go to call her but she answers and tells me she is on the phone with another guy who called her for relationship advice ( he was interested in dating her in the past). 

I get insecure after 1/2 hour and call her again by she is still on the phone. She stays on the phone with him for about 2 hours.  Then she calls me back, tells me they were just talking about his relationship problems and she is angry with me for being "rude".  I find it unacceptable that she talked to this guy about our relationship and his relationship (emotional cheating?) . She says he is just a friend but she hasn't had any guy friends before.    She gets angry,  says she needs a break and won't say whether we are seeing other people.

She also won't put a time period to break.

I am very hurt but I think best thing for me to do is no contact.  Its hard because I have no good friends and  I'm codependent on her,.  I have treated her wrongly in the past but I am very committed to doing the right things this time.  She has cold feet now though since I've broken up with her 3 times due to her BPD symptoms and alcohol.

Thanks for reading this.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[baconeggs]

I guess I'm wondering if going no contact is the right thing to do if I want to work it out with her.

[workinprogress]

Be glad she wants a break while she is still your girlfriend, and not your wife who has kids by you.

I know it is painful, but she is doing you a favor.  Go NC.

Think of the disrespect she is showing you by talking to this other guy.  Would other guys you know tolerate this?

Find out why you are still interested in her.  What is driving you?

Best of luck.

[baconeggs]

Thank you for your response workinprogess.  It helps keep me strong in NC.  What makes it harder is she has 2 kids 8yrs and 10yrs who I am very close too.  Its like I have lost my whole family.

Be glad she wants a break while she is still your girlfriend, and not your wife who has kids by you.

I know it is painful, but she is doing you a favor.  Go NC.

Think of the disrespect she is showing you by talking to this other guy.  Would other guys you know tolerate this?

Find out why you are still interested in her.  What is driving you?

Best of luck.

[Grey Kitty]

What do you want?

I know you want her to be with you, but that option isn't on the table right now.

She's probably not going to give you a clear description of what "a break" means to her. If she ends up getting involved with this other guy "on break" it will probably become clear.

Meanwhile... .can you continue to wait for her on this sort of ambiguous "break?" If so, how long are you willing to wait?

Good stuff to think about while you are not contacting her. (BTW, if she says she doesn't want contact, I'd believe her, at least for a while. NC may not be your best bet... .but calling and harassing her won't help.)

[baconeggs]

Of course.  As I kind of suspected,  she texted me this morning and said that we can talk later.  It feels so good to hear from her, but I know I need to be cautious and don't give my hopes up.  She will probably tell me she wants to see other people.

Still,  I look forward to talking with her.

She wanted the break last night when she was very likely drinking but I don't know if she is or not since she is in another state.  We almost always have conflicts only at night when she is drinking.  I don't drink anymore because of her.

The two things I told her I want if we continue this rs is for her to work on her anger control (less yelling) and to work on drinking less.  She sort of blamed her drinking on our unstable rs and said she can stop drinking when she isnt trying to decide whether to stay or break up with me but I know she will continue drinking.

As for the yelling, she said that she is just an angry person and  she has improved (barely).  She doesn't really want to change the yelling.  She said it is perfectly normal to yell but it is every day.

She has been to a few therapists a few years ago but stopped going and now says that they didn't really help although I think it did.  She is unwilling to see an individual t but I think she will see a couples counselor.

She thinks the yelling and drinking will decrease if we are in a committed rs but I want her to commit to improvements before we make any big commitments again.  What do you all think?

As for couples counseling,  I heard it doesn't work well for BPDs but I imagine some therapy is better than none, no?

This site is awesome.  Thanks everyone!

[Grey Kitty]

The two things I told her I want if we continue this rs is for her to work on her anger control (less yelling) and to work on drinking less.  She sort of blamed her drinking on our unstable rs and said she can stop drinking when she isnt trying to decide whether to stay or break up with me but I know she will continue drinking.

I'm a firm believer in boundaries, in two forms:

The first is the classic pop-psych definition, which is the point where you end and she starts. If you really, deeply understand this, it makes everything work so much better.

In this case, understand that her drinking is her choice, and while you may have opinions, nothing you can do will ever change the fact that she will choose to drink or not to drink. That is a boundary. If you understand this, you will feel less desire to control her behavior... .which doesn't work well, to say the least

The second form, which is how we usually talk about boundaries here is Boundary Enforcement. These boundaries are different from rules:

Rule: Don't yell at me.

Boundary Enforcement: If you yell at me, I will stop talking with you. (Go away if in person, or say goodbye and hang up if on the phone)

This is important, because Boundary Enforcement is very effective at protecting you. (It is her choice whether she keeps yelling or not... .but if you aren't there, you aren't hearing it!)

Rules are not very effective. With a pwBPD, they are seen more as a challenge, and it almost encourages them to try to get away with it.

The beauty of this is that she will figure it out, even if you never tell her that you are going to do this. All it takes to make it work is your determination not to stand for being yelled at. (And perhaps planning to avoid situations like getting trapped in a car with no way to escape the yelling.)

My suggestion to you is to try enforcing this boundary around yelling consistently. The most common response to a new boundary being enforced is what we call an extinction burst. You can read about it in the lessons, but the short version is this: Expect her to ramp things up at you when you do this... .but once she figures out that yelling means the end of the conversation, she won't try it very often, if at all.

My other suggestion is don't deal with drinking, or couples T directly while you do this--see if you can get this tool working first.

[baconeggs]

Grey Kitty, thank you so much for your detailed response.  It gave me some great ideas. 

Unfortunately,  I texted her a few times the same day she said she wanted a break, and I talked on the phone casually with her.  I just couldn't help it.  I was weak and afraid of losing her even though I sort of knew that no contact was probably the best way to get her back if she wants.

The following day I didn't contact her except to text her good morning, and then I got weak and tried to call her at night to profess my love to her again but she didn't answer the phone.  I couldn't sleep at all after I tried calling her, and I sent her a very long e-mail at 3AM talking about how I really want to make this work and strategies for doing so along with some good memories we've had.

Then I called her at 730AM to see if she got the e-mail.  She did and she proceeded to yell at me on the phone again blaming our rs for her drinking and saying that she yells because she is with me.  She said no one else thinks that she is an alcoholic.  She says that our rs isn't healthy, and she is probably right since I've left her three times, and now I live in another state.  Of course, while she was yelling at me, she told me that she had looked into flights to see each other this weekend.     I'm guessing that with abandonment fears,  a long distance rs with a BPD SO is near impossible. At least I had an appointment with my t right after she finished yelling at me.

I feel that the long distance along with my bringing up the drinking and yelling this last weekend might have driven her away for good.  I'm kicking myself now, but I suppose those were things I had to bring up.

She calmed down and texted me shortly after telling me that she loves me but that she doesn't think we should be together.  I apologized for contacting her, and I think we're on no contact for good now.  I'm fairly confident that I can stick to NC this time until she contacts me again.

Do you guys think that she'll come back?  I can't help but hope that she does even though I know I should focus on myself.  We've been together 6 years, and I'm very close to her two children.  This is extremely hard for me.  I also can't help but check her likely suitor's profile on match.com to see if he is active and he hasn't been, so they are probably dating again.  I don't care as much that they are dating, but I get very stressed when I think about them potentially having sex.

Any tips on how to deal with this?  I just started a new job that requires me to really think a lot and I'm unable to think so I just stare at the computer all day.

I guess probably stick to NC and focus on myself, huh?  It just feels like a gaping hole in my life.  I don't know what to do with myself without talking to her.

Also,  it's probably time for me to migrate over to the leaving boards.

[MaroonLiquid]

Grey Kitty, thank you so much for your detailed response.  It gave me some great ideas. 

Unfortunately,  I texted her a few times the same day she said she wanted a break, and I talked on the phone casually with her.  I just couldn't help it.  I was weak and afraid of losing her even though I sort of knew that no contact was probably the best way to get her back if she wants.

The following day I didn't contact her except to text her good morning, and then I got weak and tried to call her at night to profess my love to her again but she didn't answer the phone.  I couldn't sleep at all after I tried calling her, and I sent her a very long e-mail at 3AM talking about how I really want to make this work and strategies for doing so along with some good memories we've had.

Then I called her at 730AM to see if she got the e-mail.  She did and she proceeded to yell at me on the phone again blaming our rs for her drinking and saying that she yells because she is with me.  She said no one else thinks that she is an alcoholic.  She says that our rs isn't healthy, and she is probably right since I've left her three times, and now I live in another state.  Of course, while she was yelling at me, she told me that she had looked into flights to see each other this weekend.     I'm guessing that with abandonment fears,  a long distance rs with a BPD SO is near impossible. At least I had an appointment with my t right after she finished yelling at me.

I feel that the long distance along with my bringing up the drinking and yelling this last weekend might have driven her away for good.  I'm kicking myself now, but I suppose those were things I had to bring up.

She calmed down and texted me shortly after telling me that she loves me but that she doesn't think we should be together.  I apologized for contacting her, and I think we're on no contact for good now.  I'm fairly confident that I can stick to NC this time until she contacts me again.

Do you guys think that she'll come back?  I can't help but hope that she does even though I know I should focus on myself.  We've been together 6 years, and I'm very close to her two children.  This is extremely hard for me.  I also can't help but check her likely suitor's profile on match.com to see if he is active and he hasn't been, so they are probably dating again.  I don't care as much that they are dating, but I get very stressed when I think about them potentially having sex.

Any tips on how to deal with this?  I just started a new job that requires me to really think a lot and I'm unable to think so I just stare at the computer all day.

I guess probably stick to NC and focus on myself, huh?  It just feels like a gaping hole in my life.  I don't know what to do with myself without talking to her.

Also,  it's probably time for me to migrate over to the leaving boards.

I know that NC is hard.  I had to go that way when I laid down the boundary that I would not talk to my wife if she couldn't treat me with respect and have anything nice to say.  When she told me she didn't want to spend time with me, I went NC for 9 days.  I was prepared to go longer if need be.  Last Thursday she contacted me and for the most part, it was respectful up to when she left town on Saturday.  She gets back this morning, so we will see where we are at.  I was where you were 3-4 months ago, as we have been married for 5-1/2 years and we each have 3 kids by previous marriage.  Her children have called me dad (their bio is a deadbeat and refuses to be in the picture) so I completely understand.  Change your actions toward her and set boundaries.  Things will begin to change once you get strong in those boundaries and show her you respect yourself.  You need to respect yourself and not be run over.  Don't set them if you can't stick to them... .Expect the extinction burst... .They will come.

[baconeggs]

Well, she just broke no contact after 24 hours.  She texted and assured me she stayed home last night alone but that I can see other people and to have a good day.  She isn't ready to talk without getting angry.

I told her to have a good day and didn't mention whether I was going to see anyone else.  Doesn't it seem like she is digging to know?  Its either that or she really is done with me.  I'm not going to see anyone else but I feel that telling her that won't work for me to get her back.

I think this strategy would be effective for a non but what about someone with BPD.  If she thinks I'm seeing someone else,  will she retaliate and do the same or will she get jealous and come back to me?

If she does want to some back,  should I require that she admits her yelling and drinking are problems, or should we get back together first then I can work on boundaries and other strategies?  Also I haven't treated her fairly either so if I do the right things maybe she wont have as many triggers.

I will maintain nc until she contacts me.

[Grey Kitty]

I guess probably stick to NC and focus on myself, huh?  It just feels like a gaping hole in my life.  I don't know what to do with myself without talking to her.

^^^^^ This is it. Pardon me if I call it the cat's meow

It also happens to be about where I am in my r/s, despite hugely different history.

I think you are starting to go in the directions that are right for yourself... .and it feels very different than what you are used to... .uncomfortable... .hard... .

It sounds tough. Heck, it IS tough. I'd suggest you try to just feel that gaping hole in your life. Not try to fill it. Not worry about whether she's going to make it bigger or smaller. Just feel the emptyness.

I have to trust that as I do it, I'll find that there is something of me in there in that dark and empty looking place. And I'll find it and nurture it and it is wonderful and important and capable of growing.

 Best to you--this is so hard!

[baconeggs]

Thanks again grey kitty.  Reading responses on this website makes me feel so much better!  Sorry to hear that you're going through the same thing.  It's the hardest thing I've ever gone through in my life, and my life is filled with great challenges.


To be honest though, after she broke no contact and seemingly reassured me that she was alone last night, I feel waay better even though she told me "but" I could see other people.  Kind of sounds like she wants me back but is still too angry to talk.  I was really determined to talk about problems in our rs this last weekend and a lot of what I said pissed her off, but I really want to start being honest with her instead of sneaking around being her back which just pisses her off more.  Over the weekend, I also admitted to her about something hurtful I lied about earlier in the rs.  I need to stick to those "truth" statements in SET.

I'm looking on craigslist to find people to do things this weekend.  I don't know anyone here since I just moved for work, and I really need to spend some time with others I think.  Heck,  the rs took so much out of me that I didn't have many friends where I lived previously.  I have made a pledge that if we get back together, I need to make time for myself away from her

I guess probably stick to NC and focus on myself, huh?  It just feels like a gaping hole in my life.  I don't know what to do with myself without talking to her.

^^^^^ This is it. Pardon me if I call it the cat's meow

It also happens to be about where I am in my r/s, despite hugely different history.

I think you are starting to go in the directions that are right for yourself... .and it feels very different than what you are used to... .uncomfortable... .hard... .

It sounds tough. Heck, it IS tough. I'd suggest you try to just feel that gaping hole in your life. Not try to fill it. Not worry about whether she's going to make it bigger or smaller. Just feel the emptyness.

I have to trust that as I do it, I'll find that there is something of me in there in that dark and empty looking place. And I'll find it and nurture it and it is wonderful and important and capable of growing.

 Best to you--this is so hard!

[Grey Kitty]

I have made a pledge that if we get back together, I need to make time for myself away from her

Good... .but don't make it conditional on her in any way.

How does making this pledge to yourself sound?

"I will make time for myself as an individual."

[baconeggs]

Well, she just broke NC and called me to see if I wanted to say Happy Halloween to the kids.  I did talk to the kids but it was really hard given our uncertain status.

She said that she doesn't want to change the drinking or yelling and that I can't make her change, which is a good point that someone here brought up earlier.  Those are her boundaries.

She said that she is still undecided about getting back together.  She is calling me back soon to talk more.

I'm not sure what to say when she calls back.  I want her to work on improving her drinking and yelling, and before I thought that I should require this if we get back together.  But now that I'm seeing a therapist and have been researching BPD, I feel that I might be able to handle myself better in the rs.  I was getting frustrated that she was drinking and yelling and then I withdrew/stonewalled her, which probably only encouraged her rage. 

I've dealt with the drinking and yelling this long, and I feel that I could handle it in the long term if I fully commit to the rs and treat her properly knowing of the BPD. 

I guess if she is unwilling to change, maybe my improvements will be enough to have a reasonably healthy rs.

What do you all think?  Is there anything specific I should bring up before reconciling if she is willing?

[Grey Kitty]

She said that she doesn't want to change the drinking or yelling and that I can't make her change, which is a good point that someone here brought up earlier. 

What do you all think?  Is there anything specific I should bring up before reconciling if she is willing?

From your story, I can't think of things you should say to her before trying to reconcile.

Drinking is a hard one... .but bringing it up won't help.

Yelling is completely in your power to fix, and you don't need to say anything to her about it.

It is a simple matter of boundary enforcement.

If/when she starts yelling at you, leave the "conversation." Immediately.

If she is on the phone, say "goodbye" and hang up.

If you are in person with her, leave the room. If you want, just go to the bathroom. That will give you a few minutes to calm down and think about what you are going to do next. If she follows you into the next room, still yelling, leave the house.

Some bonus tips on how to leave:

Don't say anything about her being angry, yelling, etc. when you go. (Doing so is invalidating, and also invites her to argue with you. Have you ever heard somebody shout "I'm not yelling at you"?) Instead say something about how you are feeling.  Examples: "I need to calm down before I talk to you any more." or "If I stay here I'll say something that I'll regret later." Statements like these are great, because there is no way that she can argue with them.

BPD comes with a strong fear of abandonment. Leaving like this triggers it. That's for her to face, but you can do some things to minimize it. One of those is setting a clear time limit. "I'll be back soon." is horrible, because it invites a fight over what soon means upon return. "I'll be back in 20 minutes" or I'll be back in 2 hours" works much better. *IF* you choose to do this, I suggest being scrupulous in returning on time.

And when you return... .if the yelling starts back up immediately, leave again. You didn't promise to come back and get yelled at--you promised to return, and honored that promise. If you have to leave a second time, you probably should leave for longer than the first time.

... .if you do this... .you aren't stopping her from yelling--she can yell all she wants. There are walls to yell at when you leave. For that matter, she can seek out other people to yell at.

You are stopping her from yelling at YOU. You have the right to do this. You also have the ability to do this.