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Could it be BPD
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Listening to shame
Brené Brown, PhD
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Blasé Aguirre, MD
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Author Topic: Enabling and Codependency  (Read 3153 times)
vortex of confusion
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« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2014, 11:06:27 AM »

I have to fight the urge not to raise hell with him for doing nothing but playing on his computer.

grrrr grrr grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrr

imgc-cn.artprintimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/65/6514/G5R6100Z/posters/william-haefeli-lazy-i-ve-been-social-networking-my-ass-off-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg

ROTFLMAO. . .Only it's not social networking! It's tank battles and stuff like that. One weekend we couldn't go anywhere or do anything because there was some kind tournament in one of his games. That kind of behavior is perfectly fine for my kids but not so much for a grown adult. Nothing I say seems to get through to him.
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« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2014, 12:58:37 PM »

Thanks Mutt.

Regarding

Excerpt
Are you still married or separated and divorced?

What are your boundaries like?

I'm still married.  My boundaries have improved over the past year.  I have been stricter about taking time for myself, whether it be the gym, going to bed earlier when I need to, or going out for a night with a buddy or two.  I did recently tell my wife I wanted a divorce and she begged for a final attempt at making things work - she claims she didn't know how unhappy I was and she is willing to get a job and contribute.  Since then she has done nothing to look for work and has developed a mysterious vertigo illness.  I just think there is no accountability set up for her, and she may have just been outright lying about getting a job due to her fear of being alone and the fact that she's strung me along successfully for so long already, she has no indication that this strategy won't keep working for her.

My boundaries around money are still at issue because I'm not certain on how or where to set them.  I'm working to get a couples therapy appointment scheduled so maybe we can get some outside help on negotiating this stuff.
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Skip
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« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2014, 01:30:38 PM »

Ive read a bit about codependent and admit that I do have some codependent traits. What I will add though is that my exs made me codependent. In the beginning I had boundaries but they where slowly eroded away.

as a final note it has been said that if you ended the relationship then you are not codependent as a true codependent would stay through anything.

Is it healthy to lay this off on someone else?

Codependency is a learned behavior - and it can be unlearned.

First we have to own it.  

   Then we need to understand why we respond co-dependently.

           Then we use that to start unlearning it.
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enlighten me
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« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2014, 01:37:56 PM »

Hi skip

what I am trying to say is that even thkugh I had some of the traits I wasnt codependant at first. Her gaslighting and the slow acid drip of her behaviour changed me. I always had boundaries but they were slowly stripped away. As with most BPD relationships you dont realise what was happening until your out of it.

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Raybo48
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« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2014, 02:03:54 PM »

Hi skip

what I am trying to say is that even thkugh I had some of the traits I wasnt codependant at first. Her gaslighting and the slow acid drip of her behaviour changed me. I always had boundaries but they were slowly stripped away. As with most BPD relationships you dont realise what was happening until your out of it.

I'm not going to profess to be an expert here, but co-dependency is a learned behavior from childhood and all the emotional gymnastics in the world from a BPD can't develop that in you.  I always pretty much knew that and from recent sessions with my T he's confirmed that to be the case.

Now maybe a BPD can help bring some of those traits out of you more so because of all the attention they seek along with all the mixed signals, but the reality is all that stuff was already there in you as far as co-D. 

The odds are you likely wouldn't have been attracted to that person from the beginning if you were 100% emotionally balanced. Instead your dependency traits drew you to them and vs. versa. 

I have accepted this to be the case in my own situation and it's been a bitter pill to swallow--the owning it part.   Skip is right in the fact that you have to unlearn it, which is what I am attempting to do now.
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« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2014, 02:52:15 PM »

That one sentence is just awesome news!  I've been told by my T  that an emotionally balanced person would be turned off by a BPD individual every single time, OR if they managed to interest you enough to dive into a couple of dates and you noticed their all too familiar behavior pattern you'd be gone... quickly.

I got to the point where I couldn't actually have sex with her, I just couldn't do it, she didn't turn me on anymore, and this girl is beautiful, with a perfect body, physically exactly what I go for, so maybe I am not as unhealthy as I think I am.

I felt like this in year 1. I was called "not man enough" (she may have been more vulgar) to break up with her normally. After only a few days "officially" broken up (where I was desperately trying to find another place to live since I had moved in with her 7 months previously), I split her black and was indicating moving on easily. She guilted me back "if you loved me, you would try!" What? She was the one who ended it! I went back, and she sent me to sex therapy, because none of her previous partners had this problem (no, they cheated on her and left her, and none of them lived with her). I stupidly complied, but got validation from the two female doctors.

In the end, it was a repeat, but it was more subtle. I started "standing up to her" as she always asked me to do, and stopped enabling her immature behaviors. Even a friend noticed this. It had a snowball effect where I was no longer the co-dependent enabler, and I foolishly expected that she could stand on her own. I realized that I was her Jimney Cricket, so to speak, so when I detached, her morals flipped, and her abandonment issues kicked in, which led to my further resentment, and a vicious feedback loop where we both abandoned each other in different ways. I changed the terms of the original r/s to not being the soother and the apologizer and target for her mood swings.

By stopping my co-dependent behaviors, I set us both free, as painful as it was.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
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« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2014, 03:19:48 PM »

Ive read a bit about codependent and admit that I do have some codependent traits. What I will add though is that my exs made me codependent. In the beginning I had boundaries but they where slowly eroded away.

as a final note it has been said that if you ended the relationship then you are not codependent as a true codependent would stay through anything.

Is it healthy to lay this off on someone else?

Codependency is a learned behavior - and it can be unlearned.

First we have to own it.  

   Then we need to understand why we respond co-dependently.

           Then we use that to start unlearning it.

I think that I own it. I think that I know the issues that caused this. So now what? For someone that doesn't have currently have resources for T. Is it possible to move forward with these issues?
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2014, 05:16:54 PM »

I think that I own it. I think that I know the issues that caused this. So now what? For someone that doesn't have currently have resources for T. Is it possible to move forward with these issues?

I am in the same position. I don't yet have the funds for any kind of therapy or counseling. I do think it is possible to move forward by reading lots of self help type books, journaling, participating in this forum, and talking to other people. One of the things that happened to me in my relationship was that I had become isolated. Reaching out to people and doing stuff away from him has helped me to get a better perspective on things. If you become isolated, it isn't nearly as easy to have a reference point for "normal". Normal is overrated but it still gives me more of a reference point. I can bring up something that I am not comfortable with and have somebody else say, "Yeah, you are right, that does sound weird." It isn't that I need external validation as much as it is me trying untangle things and reset my internal compass.

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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2014, 05:21:34 PM »

My boundaries around money are still at issue because I'm not certain on how or where to set them.  I'm working to get a couples therapy appointment scheduled so maybe we can get some outside help on negotiating this stuff.

If you are serious about leaving, then you need to get your own bank account that she does not access to so you can have money that she cannot access. I got a second job and opened up my own account. I have one check going into the joint account to help pay bills and the other check goes into MY account. That was a non-negotiable for me.
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« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2014, 05:27:29 PM »

I talked about this on Friday with my T.  I was like ok, we know I have these components of Co-D, and they have been ingrained and I have a natural tendency to go in that direction so how to I start to work on that and become more balanced, set better boundaries and spot dysfuncion in others before it's too late.   His response... .Fake it.    I looked at him and was pretty shocked and was like huh?  He said think of what the best of you would do in that situation and fake it... You can't change learned behavior over night, but if you go against what is comfortable enough it will soon become much more natural to do the right thing.   

I don't think this would work if you don't own it first though, and I'm pretty confident I've done that.
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« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2014, 05:45:11 PM »

I talked about this on Friday with my T.  I was like ok, we know I have these components of Co-D, and they have been ingrained and I have a natural tendency to go in that direction so how to I start to work on that and become more balanced, set better boundaries and spot dysfuncion in others before it's too late.   His response... .Fake it.    I looked at him and was pretty shocked and was like huh?  He said think of what the best of you would do in that situation and fake it... You can't change learned behavior over night, but if you go against what is comfortable enough it will soon become much more natural to do the right thing.   

I don't think this would work if you don't own it first though, and I'm pretty confident I've done that.

From what I have read he is right. Fake it and also do visualisations of how you would want things to be or go.  Apparently your brain doesn't know fantasy from reality and it will actually change by doing this so that old patterns are replaced by new ones.   This is neuroplasticity.
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« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2014, 05:52:45 PM »

I got a second job and opened up my own account. I have one check going into the joint account to help pay bills and the other check goes into MY account. That was a non-negotiable for me.

Thank you for this input.  This is one thing I have been considering.  I am unhappy with the amount of money coming in.  Instead of expecting her to change or contribute, I will take responsibility for that fact and find a secondary source of income on my own.  Then keep that money 100% in my own account so I have some control of exactly what it goes towards and can do some much needed things for myself. 

Learning to give up codependency is learning that the only thing you can change is yourself and the way you deal with the rest of the world.
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Aussie JJ
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« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2014, 08:13:54 PM »

I think there has to be a distinction between being co-dependant as an individual and a relationship that is co-dependant. 

For me, I have always had a few issues stemming from a fairly controlling mother.  These were pulled out to the forefront and played on in a big way by my exBPDgf.  Now, is this her fault or mine?  I allowed it to happen, I was used to my mother doing the same thing with me, controlling my actions and dictating what was correct.  Whenever I stood up for myself my mum would always be put off and get aggressive or silent treatment with me (some NPD / BPD traits, not full blown).  My exBPDgf used those same behaviours that I had learnt were acceptable and escalated them. 

Now it is a learnt behaviour, I allowed it to happen as it had been taught to me my whole life by my mother as how to relate to people.  There is a it of codependency in EVERY relationship.  The question is how we enable it more than anything.  For me at the moment I feel so uncomfortable when standing up for myself and my values.  Not letting these boundary's be crossed causes me a huge amount of anxiety, in that choice however I am making a healthier decision. 

We learn these behaviours and we can unlearn them.  To put it in perspective, my exBPDgf came from a family with a narcissistic father and a 100% borderline mother.  Oldest daughter removed into foster care at 13 y/o and refuses to go into the family house to this day 20 years later?  She has BPD as she learnt this behaviour from her FOO, same as her sister has BPD, she learnt how to relate to people form her FOO.  She learnt how to relate to people from her mother and father who were in a codependent abusive relationship with their personality traits issues caused a lot of conflict. 

Is it her fault that she relates to people like this?  It is her choice, she has to make a choice to change that pattern.  For us, we relate to people in a co-dependant fashion, it is our choice if we continue to relate like this. 

I find a lot of power in saying, I allowed XYZ to happen and I wont accept that any-more.  Something that might be of use to everyone here, I allowed my exBPDpartner to relate to me by giving me the silent treatment.  I wont accept the silent treatment in any future relationship, I will ask how and why the person feels that way and explain how and why i feel this way.  I will relate to people in a healthier manner and not surpress my feelings, I will validate there feelings and wont allow people to invalidate how I feel. 

Try it, it feels awful, it is something I don't see anyone who has posted previously expressing that they have done a huge amount.  Change is painful and remember Rome wasnt built in a day.   


AJJ. 
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