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Author Topic: Attachment styles of pwBPD  (Read 2618 times)
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« Reply #60 on: December 23, 2014, 08:03:21 PM »

Certainly avoidant and anxious is bad mix. Never again.  

But... .I described myself as primarily an avoidant... .so when I said

So, do we consider other avoidants as good possibilities also? Or not?

what I meant was (and I don't think anyone has addressed this yet in the thread):

Is avoidant and avoidant also a bad mix?

Similarly, is anxious and anxious also a bad mix?

Anybody have experience with these? Do they work?

Is there analysis of these combinations in the book(s) being discussed?

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« Reply #61 on: December 23, 2014, 08:19:04 PM »

Certainly avoidant and anxious is bad mix. Never again.  

But... .I described myself as primarily an avoidant... .so when I said

So, do we consider other avoidants as good possibilities also? Or not?

what I meant was (and I don't think anyone has addressed this yet in the thread):

Is avoidant and avoidant also a bad mix?

Similarly, is anxious and anxious also a bad mix?

Anybody have experience with these? Do they work?

Is there analysis of these combinations in the book(s) being discussed?

I don't know about avoidant and avoidant PP, I wasn't focusing on that, although the traits of the styles are clearly defined and you can figure it out on your own when you read it.  My first thought is two avoidant people would spend all their time avoiding each other, so how could they have a relationship?  Or if they did, it might be an emotionally detached arrangement, something like a business deal, which could also work if that's what both people want.

Yes, two anxious people could get together, they want the same thing, emotional closeness and intimacy, and don't do well without assurances and communication, so they would spend a lot of time reassuring each other if it were to work.  Secure people want the same thing and communicate emotionally openly and easily, so anxious folks warm up to that too, and it can make them more secure.
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« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2014, 08:21:42 PM »

In pretty much every tradition of a wounded healer or savior figure it is through suffering that they acquire the wisdom to not suffer.  Before they encountered otherworldly suffering they are often portrayed as an ignorant fool.
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« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2014, 04:54:06 PM »

In pretty much every tradition of a wounded healer or savior figure it is through suffering that they acquire the wisdom to not suffer.  Before they encountered otherworldly suffering they are often portrayed as an ignorant fool.

Not sure how that applies to this thread Blim, although it's both true and bleak.

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« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2014, 11:23:32 PM »

Hey Perdify. Great post

My question is this: are humans not hardwired for attachment?

As much as I agree with you and that any attachment leads to pain, I find that NOT attaching is almost impossible.

Do we not look for cues in potential partners to go deeper than non-partners? Does deeper not mean attaching more, valuing more, sharing more?

I love zero attachment in theory but worry that it does not actually exist... .much like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and the pursuit of self-actualisation

I already know I'm wrong (LOL) and I love your insights so much but the absence of attachment feels robotic to me... .and impossible as a human being.

Relationships are layered or tiered or classifiable. Family, colleagues, friends, lovers all have different levels of importance or significance... .

... .and hence different levels of attachment? no?

What does an attachment free romantic relationship look like? Can the partner cheat, abuse, love... .all without eliciting a response from us?

thanks

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« Reply #65 on: December 26, 2014, 12:19:25 PM »

Bb12,

Attachment theory was initially developed  with regard to parent-child relationships. As two adults in a romantic relationship, neither is a child. As adults we should each know that the nature of all things is impermanence, and, that to become attached to anything will only result in a sense of loss. Incompleteness.

To be in a romantic relationship without attachment, is to be in a mature relationship. A relationship where we know that one day we will be parted, whether it's through separation of mind, or death. Our ways will part.

Being hardwired for connection is nothing more than the sense that we all have of unity in all things. All things are connected. We know this intuitively. Do we not live in a universe? A oneness?

How we respond to cheating, lying, etc., depends entirely upon our personal boundaries. Our personal boundaries are for us, not our partners.

Just an observation, there is no mature attachment style.




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« Reply #66 on: December 26, 2014, 01:46:13 PM »

Excerpt
Being hardwired for connection is nothing more than the sense that we all have of unity in all things.

It's more than that Perf.  Bowlby's study of attachment theory started with parent-child studies but worked backwards from there, to something that is pretty obvious:

... .we’ve been programmed by evolution to single out a few specific individuals in our lives and make them precious to us. We’ve been bred to be dependent on a significant other. The need starts in the womb and ends when we die. Bowlby proposed that throughout evolution, genetic selection favored people who became attached because it provided a survival advantage. In prehistoric times, people who relied only on themselves and had no one to protect them were more likely to end up as prey. More often than not, those who were with somebody who deeply cared about them survived to pass on to their offspring the preference to form intimate bonds. In fact, the need to be near someone special is so important that the brain has a biological mechanism specifically responsible for creating and regulating our connection with our attachment figures (parents, children, and romantic partners). This mechanism, called the attachment system, consists of emotions and behaviors that ensure that we remain safe and protected by staying close to our loved ones. The mechanism explains why a child parted from his or her mother becomes frantic, searches wildly, or cries uncontrollably until he or she reestablishes contact with her. These reactions are coined protest behavior, and we all still exhibit them as grown-ups. In prehistoric times, being close to a partner was a matter of life and death, and our attachment system developed to treat such proximity as an absolute necessity.
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« Reply #67 on: December 26, 2014, 03:01:22 PM »

Heal, I understand attachment style theory. We, as humans evolve. We grow. Attachment is a fact of life, just as birth, aging and death. Attachment is definitely part of the deal. What worked for paleo man may not be the ticket for a more evolved human. As infants and children, we need attachment for survival. As an adult, do you feel as though you would die without an attachment? When we, as adults, are able to destroy attachment, it opens us up to accepting and being in unity with every human being, every animal, every plant, and every stone, exactly as they are. We are able to love openly and freely, without attachment. It's easy to see that attachment style theory sprang from attachment given the sheer force that attachment possesses. To place qualities on things that they don't actually possess is human nature.
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« Reply #68 on: December 26, 2014, 04:10:16 PM »

I get the unity stance Perf, although I question how 'evolved' we are; 'modern' humans have been around for an insignificant amount of time relative to primates in general, and the preference for attachment has been in our DNA for tens of millions of years.

But anyway, if attachment=bad then maybe connection is a better word.  Connection with a human brings something to the party that connection with a rock or a plant cannot, and deliberately eschewing that in the name of bliss is avoidant.  Although living without attachments (or connections) is possible, I don't like it, connection with people is where the juice of life is, it's also where the fire is, and hopefully us smart monkeys have learned enough to avoid them borderline flames.
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« Reply #69 on: December 26, 2014, 04:46:31 PM »

To be in a romantic relationship without attachment, is to be in a mature relationship. A relationship where we know that one day we will be parted, whether it's through separation of mind, or death. Our ways will part.

I have to disagree with you Perfidy.  Of course we know one day we will part from one another, one way or another.  And yes, this will be painful and hurt like hell.  So?  So since when is life supposed to not hurt?  It is this fact that everything is temporary that makes our connections with others that much more meaningful and special.  Knowing we need to treasure our moments in life, not take them for granted.  And be thankful for them.  I think a mature r/s is when we allow ourselves to show ourselves deeply and love deeply, despite the fact we'll have to one day say goodbye. 

I get the unity stance Perf, although I question how 'evolved' we are; 'modern' humans have been around for an insignificant amount of time relative to primates in general, and the preference for attachment has been in our DNA for tens of millions of years.

But anyway, if attachment=bad then maybe connection is a better word.  Connection with a human brings something to the party that connection with a rock or a plant cannot, and deliberately eschewing that in the name of bliss is avoidant.  Although living without attachments (or connections) is possible, I don't like it, connection with people is where the juice of life is, it's also where the fire is, and hopefully us smart monkeys have learned enough to avoid them borderline flames.

Fromheeltoheal, you put into words what I was thinking but didn't know how to express.  There is a richness in our connections with others.  I would rather have a lifetime of heartbreaks than have a life with no deep connections. 

Apparently when Bowlby wrote about his attachment theory, he wasn't sure what to call it and was originally calling it a love theory.  But with so many subjective ideas on love, he used the word 'attachment'. 
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« Reply #70 on: December 26, 2014, 06:13:51 PM »

if you have a beef with what perfidy is saying then you have a beef with mindfulness, buddha, buddhism, etc. and a beef with bpdfamily.com because "detachment" is what both promote.

case in point, there are article links on the right margin of the leaving board with the words "attachment leads to suffering ~ detachment leads to freedom" -- they lead to this article:   https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135116.0

i recommend reading the whole article, but here's some excerpts, notice they promote "engagement" not "attachment" -- no where did i see perfidy suggest not engaging,

"as is so often the case with the big issues of spiritual life, detachment involves a deep paradox. It's true that those without a lot of clutter in their lives have more time for inner practice. But in the long run, disengaging ourselves from family, possessions, political activism, friendships, and career pursuits can actually impoverish our inner lives. Engagement with people and places, skills and ideas, money and possessions is what grounds inner practice in reality... .So we can't use detachment as an excuse not to deal with fundamental issues such as livelihood, power, self-esteem, and relationships with other people. (Well, we can, but eventually those issues will rise up and smack us in the face, like an insulted ingenue in a 1950s movie.) Nor can we make detachment a synonym for indifference, or carelessness, or passivity. Instead, we can practice detachment as a skill—perhaps the essential skill for infusing our lives with integrity and grace.

The Bhagavad Gita, which is surely the basic text on the practice of detachment, is wonderfully explicit on this point. Krishna tells Arjuna that acting with detachment means doing the right thing for its own sake, because it needs to be done, without worrying about success or failure."


   pain is inevitable, suffering is optional  ~me

To be in a romantic relationship without attachment, is to be in a mature relationship. A relationship where we know that one day we will be parted, whether it's through separation of mind, or death. Our ways will part.

I have to disagree with you Perfidy.  Of course we know one day we will part from one another, one way or another.  And yes, this will be painful and hurt like hell.  So?  So since when is life supposed to not hurt?  It is this fact that everything is temporary that makes our connections with others that much more meaningful and special.  Knowing we need to treasure our moments in life, not take them for granted.  And be thankful for them.  I think a mature r/s is when we allow ourselves to show ourselves deeply and love deeply, despite the fact we'll have to one day say goodbye. 

I get the unity stance Perf, although I question how 'evolved' we are; 'modern' humans have been around for an insignificant amount of time relative to primates in general, and the preference for attachment has been in our DNA for tens of millions of years.

But anyway, if attachment=bad then maybe connection is a better word.  Connection with a human brings something to the party that connection with a rock or a plant cannot, and deliberately eschewing that in the name of bliss is avoidant.  Although living without attachments (or connections) is possible, I don't like it, connection with people is where the juice of life is, it's also where the fire is, and hopefully us smart monkeys have learned enough to avoid them borderline flames.

Fromheeltoheal, you put into words what I was thinking but didn't know how to express.  There is a richness in our connections with others.  I would rather have a lifetime of heartbreaks than have a life with no deep connections. 

Apparently when Bowlby wrote about his attachment theory, he wasn't sure what to call it and was originally calling it a love theory.  But with so many subjective ideas on love, he used the word 'attachment'. 

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« Reply #71 on: December 26, 2014, 07:00:47 PM »

It's not a beef ucme, it's a conversation.  And it's really just semantics: attachment, detachment, connection, engagement, similar but very context-specific; attachment and detachment are only the opposite of each other when they're in the same context.

Detachment in a spiritual sense, a realizing that we are much larger than our emotions, our possessions and our aspirations and it's possible to be engaged with or feeling those things but also stand off to the side of them, remain detached from them, acknowledge them but not be them, is a moment to moment endeavor and always the goal. 

And 'attachment styles' is a field of study concerning itself with what happens when two humans become emotionally engaged with one another, and whatever our attachment style is WILL show up when that happens, as we build a connection, an emotional engagement, while concurrently working on our internal detachment from our emotions.

So in reference to our borderline exes, which one is it?  Both.  Taking all of the emotions around whatever happened while we were in it and detaching from those, in a spiritual sense, while physically detaching from that person by removing them from our lives, while also using attachment style theory as a tool as we connect to, engage with, attach to new humans as they enter our orbit.  All this work!  Not really, it's a settling-into, and detachment in a zen sense really helps with that.
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« Reply #72 on: December 26, 2014, 07:07:18 PM »

Pingo, you might be on the right track with love style theory, or perhaps, engagement style theory. Unity is the nature of all things. Everything exists in harmony, naturally. To depart from our nature is to be unhappy, because happiness is our nature. Love isn't something that we possess, love is it's own entity that fills us when we don't stand in it's way, and we perceive the phenomena of love with the phenomena of mind.  Love is our nature. Who doesn't want love and happiness?
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« Reply #73 on: December 26, 2014, 08:32:23 PM »

Pingo, you might be on the right track with love style theory, or perhaps, engagement style theory. Unity is the nature of all things. Everything exists in harmony, naturally. To depart from our nature is to be unhappy, because happiness is our nature. Love isn't something that we possess, love is it's own entity that fills us when we don't stand in it's way, and we perceive the phenomena of love with the phenomena of mind.  Love is our nature. Who doesn't want love and happiness?

I know we have been possibly talking about two different things throughout this thread but this has been an extremely interesting conversation everyone.  I have read books on Buddhism and such for years and years but I think for myself I was trying to spiritually bypass the hard work of healing I've been going through this year.  I was trying to detach from my pain without first feeling/processing the pain.  I think learning about 'attachment theory' has helped in going through this process.  I hope to come to a point where I can re-read those same books and understand them better and be coming from a more whole and healing place.  And I hope to someday connect with another man in a secure way, where we can share our deepest selves and experience trust and comfort in our intimacy without coming from a place of need but a place of love.
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« Reply #74 on: December 26, 2014, 10:23:59 PM »

Pingo, this is productive in the sense that definition is essential in understanding. So many things that we casually talk about have no clear definition. This is great that we can all share our minds in this media format without the distractions of body. A meeting of the minds. In a secure attachment style is happiness guaranteed? Does it take more than attachment style to feel secure with a romantic partner? Part of the problem with truly disordered people is that they tend to fool us with their theatrics into thinking that we are secure with them. I have a secure attachment style as defined in theory, my BPDexgf also seemed to have a secure attachment style. I remember the unbridled expressions of love, trust and commitment that were shoveled on me while at the same time the life was being sucked out of me. She was convincing! Didn't end well.
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« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2015, 12:25:23 PM »

hmmm. regarding attachment styles (based studies of infant attachment and the adult attachment interview) and eastern philosophy that suggests bliss is about not begin attached... .

I love mindfulness and everything that goes with eastern philosophy and teachings.  I also enjoy being a human being on earth.

We are confined from birth to a human body that has a brain, vagus nerve and central nervous system that is the means of connection  and attachment with other human beings who are also in a body while on this earth.  I like the comedian who refers to it as a ‘meat body’.  It can be a drag, being that we are all part of the oneness of universe to be confined to a meat body while on earth, but, it is what it is.  That’s the price of admission.

There is nothing wrong with having a healthy attachments while on this earth to loved ones such as creating a healthy family. Learning about attachments styles is valuable and interesting.  Healthy family  and friend attachments CAN coincide with deep acceptance that nothing is permanent, we are all here in ‘meat bodies’ doing the best we can,  we are obviously all changing every second and none of us are going to stay in this body forever.  It’s both.

Sometimes the most troublesome attachments are not to people or things but to ideas.

It is both, not either - or.

Be unattached in your attachments.

Also, I do not believe the point of existence while on earth is to avoid all suffering and meditate my life into total blended consciousness at all times, what is the purpose of being here in a meat body if it’s just to mediate myself back into the ocean of oneness?  If you are in a body, you will have some suffering.  I think the Universe wanted to fall in love and suffer, it wanted to know itself through life in a body on earth.  Stop avoiding it!  You are here.  The acceptance of being human and in a human body while on the earth is part of the path.  There is suffering and there is bliss. It’s both.  There is oneness and there is self.  It’s both. I assume I will dissolve fully into the oceanic one-ness of the universe again when I die and am no longer in this meat body, but since I am here on the earth in a meat body right now, I am AS interested in experiencing the universe while in a body and having a ‘self’ in that body as I am with exploring the fact that I came from the oneness of the universe.  It’s both.  I am here experiencing the universe in the form of a body right now and as part of that journey I use my nervous system to have strong emotional connections and attachments to specific people I meet along the way who are also reincarnated into a meat body,  and it sometimes brings suffering when they leave or change…. SO WHAT?... .for a short blip of time for  some reason I am HERE…I will suffer on the earth from time to time…so what?   Why not be here now and accept what is?  

It’s both.

None of us are perfect beings with all the answers, at least not while on this earth.  Stay open to everyones path and experience.  

It’s all good.  
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« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2015, 12:55:55 PM »

Meat body!  I love it!  I better not fancy myself as too much of a prime rib, but I have seen some mighty fine tenderloins.

To me it's where we create our bliss.  It's totally possible to sit quietly, meditate, bliss out, get a very real sense that we are detached from everything although everything is one, it's all energy.  That works, and, we're floating on a rock in the middle of nowhere, or everywhere, with 9 billion like-minded souls who are prewired for connection, we're social animals.  Another form of bliss is to connect with another human at such a deep level that the line between them and us disappears, a melding of psyches, invigorating, and also not difficult to discern who's me and who's you as long as both are autonomous individuals.  We can have both at the same time, or different periods of the same time, but insisting on blissing out on your own when you're with someone else is avoidant.  And the challenge, which attachment style theory has helped me a great deal with, is starting down the path of creating an attachment with someone and getting to that place of relational bliss without the wheels falling off, without resorting to 'protest behavior', developing something that grows and strengthens with time, not the opposite.  And sure, it's risky, but everything worth it is.  Noticing what another person's style is, which WILL show up when we connect with other humans, is critical and was the piece that was missing for me; avoid the avoidants at all costs, says the man with the anxious style.  And the disordered ones?  Well avoiding them goes without saying.

Coals are fired up, time to go snuggle in the warmth with a hot meat body... .
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« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2015, 07:26:43 AM »

accepting I have a dysfunctional attachment style is actually empowering.  It gives me hope that I can create a life where the attachment is healthy and brings out the best in both of us.  It also reduces my shame about my 'neediness and insecurities' and it helps me recognise my triggers.

Another thing empowering about attachment styles is none of them is dysfunctional, they just are, and that word is not used to describe them in that book.  Dysfunction applies to relationships, and a part I liked was not only can an anxious person and a secure person have a totally functional relationship, partly because a secure person knows intuitively that an anxious one needs reassurances and emotional closeness and gives that to them easily, but it's what they want too.  Plus, being in a relationship with a secure person can make the anxious one more secure, and while an avoidant person may make us feel ashamed about the needs we have, a secure one just meets them without question.  Life is about to get awesome Pingo, it's about letting the right ones in, and who we are is who we are in relationship with others.

Hmmmm... .when my r/s started my attachment style was secure and hers was anxious... .and I believed what you said in bold - and spent a LOT of time reassuring her - but it didn't work.  Maybe that's the BPD though - if it had ONLY been about differing attachment styles (without the BPD) it might have worked.

Over time, she flipped to avoidant and I flipped to anxious... .which is the first time I've had that experience in a r/s and it was HELL.  I will work hard to avoid it like the plague in the future - by recognizing it if I see/experience it again.
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« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2015, 08:58:17 AM »

Be unattached in your attachments.

Also, I do not believe the point of existence while on earth is to avoid all suffering and meditate my life into total blended consciousness at all times, what is the purpose of being here in a meat body if it’s just to mediate myself back into the ocean of oneness?  If you are in a body, you will have some suffering.  I think the Universe wanted to fall in love and suffer, it wanted to know itself through life in a body on earth.  Stop avoiding it!  You are here.  The acceptance of being human and in a human body while on the earth is part of the path.  There is suffering and there is bliss. It’s both.  There is oneness and there is self.  It’s both. I assume I will dissolve fully into the oceanic one-ness of the universe again when I die and am no longer in this meat body, but since I am here on the earth in a meat body right now, I am AS interested in experiencing the universe while in a body and having a ‘self’ in that body as I am with exploring the fact that I came from the oneness of the universe.  It’s both.  I am here experiencing the universe in the form of a body right now and as part of that journey I use my nervous system to have strong emotional connections and attachments to specific people I meet along the way who are also reincarnated into a meat body,  and it sometimes brings suffering when they leave or change…. SO WHAT?... .for a short blip of time for  some reason I am HERE…I will suffer on the earth from time to time…so what?   Why not be here now and accept what is? 

It’s both.

I agree with this, MaybeSo.  It is this experience in our 'meat body' (love this! Smiling (click to insert in post) ) balanced with our experience of oneness, it can be both! 

Coals are fired up, time to go snuggle in the warmth with a hot meat body... .

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2015, 09:06:18 AM »

Hmmmm... .when my r/s started my attachment style was secure and hers was anxious... .and I believed what you said in bold - and spent a LOT of time reassuring her - but it didn't work.  Maybe that's the BPD though - if it had ONLY been about differing attachment styles (without the BPD) it might have worked.

Over time, she flipped to avoidant and I flipped to anxious... .which is the first time I've had that experience in a r/s and it was HELL.  I will work hard to avoid it like the plague in the future - by recognizing it if I see/experience it again.

Yes.  One thing I like about attachment styles is everyone has one, 100% of the population, where only a few percent have personality disorders.  My ex was way, way out there, living in a universe of her own, so far away from what most of us call 'normal' that being with her was entering the Twilight Zone.  It's not about her anymore, hasn't been for a while now, but the new, revised me is meeting lots of new people, and looking at it through the attachment style lens has been profound for me.  There are a few women whom I've known for decades, I was in short relationships with two of them, and the special something was never there, we never took off into that kind of relationship that just finds its own energy and flies on its own, it always felt like a struggle.  Well, they both have avoidant styles, and one of them is in a relationship with someone with a secure style and it seems to work, a lot better than it did with anxious me, so there's something to that theory, of course it's not the end-all. nothing is, but more lights have come on... .
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« Reply #80 on: January 18, 2015, 09:07:35 AM »

Hmmmm... .when my r/s started my attachment style was secure and hers was anxious... .and I believed what you said in bold - and spent a LOT of time reassuring her - but it didn't work.  Maybe that's the BPD though - if it had ONLY been about differing attachment styles (without the BPD) it might have worked.

Over time, she flipped to avoidant and I flipped to anxious... .which is the first time I've had that experience in a r/s and it was HELL.  I will work hard to avoid it like the plague in the future - by recognizing it if I see/experience it again.

This was also my experience!  I do believe it was about the BPD, I think that in a non-disordered person experiencing an anxious attachment your reassurances would make them feel secure.  And I also saw my own style flip through the r/s but I did the opposite, I was becoming avoidant near the end because he was trying to smother me with his possessiveness and controlling behaviours.  I did it to protect myself and I guess I was beginning to detach.

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« Reply #81 on: January 18, 2015, 10:28:50 AM »

Hmmmm... .when my r/s started my attachment style was secure and hers was anxious... .and I believed what you said in bold - and spent a LOT of time reassuring her - but it didn't work.  Maybe that's the BPD though - if it had ONLY been about differing attachment styles (without the BPD) it might have worked.

Over time, she flipped to avoidant and I flipped to anxious... .which is the first time I've had that experience in a r/s and it was HELL.  I will work hard to avoid it like the plague in the future - by recognizing it if I see/experience it again.

This was also my experience!  I do believe it was about the BPD, I think that in a non-disordered person experiencing an anxious attachment your reassurances would make them feel secure.  And I also saw my own style flip through the r/s but I did the opposite, I was becoming avoidant near the end because he was trying to smother me with his possessiveness and controlling behaviours.  I did it to protect myself and I guess I was beginning to detach.

Yep, same story for me as well, a complete switch in attachment style, like being a different person. I imagine this a common occurrence in these relationships, perhaps why the FOG was so hard to get out of.  I lost myself somewhere along the way.

Reassuring to know that others faced the same experience.  As FromHeeltoHeal pointed out, trying to work on being more actively aware of these attachment styles in my current relationships has been an eye opener.
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« Reply #82 on: January 18, 2015, 12:16:41 PM »

Hmmmm... .when my r/s started my attachment style was secure and hers was anxious... .and I believed what you said in bold - and spent a LOT of time reassuring her - but it didn't work.  Maybe that's the BPD though - if it had ONLY been about differing attachment styles (without the BPD) it might have worked.

Over time, she flipped to avoidant and I flipped to anxious... .which is the first time I've had that experience in a r/s and it was HELL.  I will work hard to avoid it like the plague in the future - by recognizing it if I see/experience it again.

This was also my experience!  I do believe it was about the BPD, I think that in a non-disordered person experiencing an anxious attachment your reassurances would make them feel secure.  And I also saw my own style flip through the r/s but I did the opposite, I was becoming avoidant near the end because he was trying to smother me with his possessiveness and controlling behaviours.  I did it to protect myself and I guess I was beginning to detach.

It's funny, because at the beginning of the r/s I was aware that I was secure and she was anxious... .although I didn't have an understanding of "attachment theory" to back it up.  I thought (again in the beginning years) that I was secure enough that, over time, she would feel less anxious by virtue of being involved with me... .that my healthy "secure" style would bleed over into her life.  If only I knew what was coming... .
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« Reply #83 on: January 18, 2015, 12:21:16 PM »

Yep, same story for me as well, a complete switch in attachment style, like being a different person. I imagine this a common occurrence in these relationships, perhaps why the FOG was so hard to get out of.  I lost myself somewhere along the way.

YES.  This ^... .I went from secure to anxious and she went from anxious to avoidant. It was hell. Never, ever EVER again.
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2015, 12:32:43 PM »

Yep, same story for me as well, a complete switch in attachment style, like being a different person. I imagine this a common occurrence in these relationships, perhaps why the FOG was so hard to get out of.  I lost myself somewhere along the way.

YES.  This ^... .I went from secure to anxious and she went from anxious to avoidant. It was hell. Never, ever EVER again.

Yes, me too, and this is the personal inventory board, where the pesky borderline no longer matters.  How can we use attachment style theory moving forward, so not only do we avoid disordered folks but also folks with incompatible styles?
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« Reply #85 on: January 18, 2015, 12:43:54 PM »

Yes, me too, and this is the personal inventory board, where the pesky borderline no longer matters.  How can we use attachment style theory moving forward, so not only do we avoid disordered folks but also folks with incompatible styles?

Listen to that gut feeling that tells you this doesn't feel good.  Don't minimise it.  Don't dismiss it.  I'm practising this right now with someone I've met online.  Listening to my body, my need to feel soft, relaxed in the conversation.  So far so good.  I haven't met him in person yet. 
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« Reply #86 on: January 18, 2015, 12:47:13 PM »

I am trying to be more actively aware of attachment styles in my current relationships, romantic or otherwise, FHTH ... .but I'm not sure that will be sufficient to protect me in the future.  

I need to learn how to best respond to different attachment styles, given my own.  I've read several of the books on the subject in the last few months.  But it's one thing to know something intellectually, and another to put it into practice.  Trying to figure that part out.
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« Reply #87 on: January 18, 2015, 12:59:36 PM »

Yes, me too, and this is the personal inventory board, where the pesky borderline no longer matters.  How can we use attachment style theory moving forward, so not only do we avoid disordered folks but also folks with incompatible styles?

Listen to that gut feeling that tells you this doesn't feel good.  Don't minimise it.  Don't dismiss it.  I'm practising this right now with someone I've met online.  Listening to my body, my need to feel soft, relaxed in the conversation.  So far so good.  I haven't met him in person yet. 

Exciting Pingo!
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #88 on: January 18, 2015, 01:04:31 PM »

I am trying to be more actively aware of attachment styles in my current relationships, romantic or otherwise, FHTH ... .but I'm not sure that will be sufficient to protect me in the future.  

I need to learn how to best respond to different attachment styles, given my own.  I've read several of the books on the subject in the last few months.  But it's one thing to know something intellectually, and another to put it into practice.  Trying to figure that part out.

You're right Copper, it's not the whole story, just a piece, although a profound piece for me because it explained why it just didn't work with some women I've known, not the disordered one, other reasonably sane ones, but we had a conflict in styles that was never going to go away.  And of course when it didn't work I blamed myself, so going from that to a style incompatibility is very freeing.

And you're also right that learning something intellectually and putting it into practice in the real world are two different things.  The real-world part just takes practice, and that practice is job one for me right now, exciting, and I don't have to be perfect or even good at it overnight; let's celebrate progress!
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« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2015, 01:09:59 PM »

I am trying to be more actively aware of attachment styles in my current relationships, romantic or otherwise, FHTH ... .but I'm not sure that will be sufficient to protect me in the future.  

I need to learn how to best respond to different attachment styles, given my own.  I've read several of the books on the subject in the last few months.  But it's one thing to know something intellectually, and another to put it into practice.  Trying to figure that part out.

You're right Copper, it's not the whole story, just a piece, although a profound piece for me because it explained why it just didn't work with some women I've known, not the disordered one, other reasonably sane ones, but we had a conflict in styles that was never going to go away.  And of course when it didn't work I blamed myself, so going from that to a style incompatibility is very freeing.

And you're also right that learning something intellectually and putting it into practice in the real world are two different things.  The real-world part just takes practice, and that practice is job one for me right now, exciting, and I don't have to be perfect or even good at it overnight; let's celebrate progress.

I think that attachment theory is a valuable tool because you can tell almost straight away what someone's attachment style is by listening to how your body is reacting to them.  It saves a lot of time and grief!  You don't feel right?  You don't feel relaxed with how things are going?  You don't have to analyse it till the cows come home!  You can just say this isn't right for me!  And onto the next one! 

I also found that it made me feel a lot freer to be who I am.  I don't have to worry if someone won't like me or find me too needy or whatever they might perceive.  I can be honestly who I am and wait for the partner who has the right fit for me! 
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