Hooks of empathy

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Last night I watched a documentary about psychopaths.  They said they always start a r/s by sending out an empathy hook to see if you will catch it (if you don't show that capacity for empathy they'll move on to the next victim).  They are looking for that empathy bc that makes us vulnerable.  Although I don't think my ex was a psychopath (did have some traits though) he did send out that empathy hook right away, long before he started idolising me and making me feel oh soo good!  His hook was the sad story of his life.  He had a tragic brain injury 11 yrs ago.  He lost his memories of his wife and children.  It was really heartbreaking.  He seemed so deeply wounded yet struggling to be normal and happy.  This was definitely what snared me! It clouded my judgement when I started to see red flags.

Just wondering if you all experienced that empathy hook early on in the r/s?  I think for me, seeing it for what it was will hopefully make me a little smarter next time around.

[Pingo]

Last night I watched a documentary about psychopaths.  They said they always start a r/s by sending out an empathy hook to see if you will catch it (if you don't show that capacity for empathy they'll move on to the next victim).  They are looking for that empathy bc that makes us vulnerable.  Although I don't think my ex was a psychopath (did have some traits though) he did send out that empathy hook right away, long before he started idolising me and making me feel oh soo good!  His hook was the sad story of his life.  He had a tragic brain injury 11 yrs ago.  He lost his memories of his wife and children.  It was really heartbreaking.  He seemed so deeply wounded yet struggling to be normal and happy.  This was definitely what snared me! It clouded my judgement when I started to see red flags.

Just wondering if you all experienced that empathy hook early on in the r/s?  I think for me, seeing it for what it was will hopefully make me a little smarter next time around.

[Mutt]

I'm not sure that I'd called it so much empathy and more so sympathy. Sure my ex had stories where it garnered sympathy. I felt bad for her. She was a single mom, abusive bf's that were alcoholics, drug addicts, physically abusive. She was a person that looked and sounded defenseless and needed help.

She said one bf tried to pour gasoline on her and light a match. I thought   why would someone do that to her? That's crazy!

So 7 years later after hearing these stories, I'm part of that rolodex of stories of now another abusive ex.

By doing the work I did here, when I hear sympathy from a person my new spider-senses tingle and I don't want that person close to me as an intimate partner or close friend. My boundaries keeps the good stuff in ( me   ) and the bad stuff out (  )

I don't rescue having learned my lesson.

[Trog]

Yes, lots of tails of people who had rounded on her and betrayed her right from the first date, who she would never speak to again, then some time later their heinous crimes are downgraded and is she ran out of emotional support from me, she'd go back to them, partners, friends, family, they go from black to white to black within a day. It's all only about their deep need for certain emotional support supply and anyone will be forgiven anything if they can give them a hit during low supply. They're like drug addicts.

[Trog]

Yes, lots of tails of people who had rounded on her and betrayed her right from the first date, who she would never speak to again, then some time later their heinous crimes are downgraded and is she ran out of emotional support from me, she'd go back to them, partners, friends, family, they go from black to white to black within a day. It's all only about their deep need for certain emotional support supply and anyone will be forgiven anything if they can give them a hit during low supply. They're like drug addicts.

and on that note, this is the same for when you get contacted. We like to believe they contact us cos they are in such emotional pain and have been wrestling with their conscience for months and have finally reached out... .maybe that is true for some, but in my experience, my exBPDw wouldn't reach out at all if she were not bored or in need of a "hit". We seperated many times, and I found out she reached out to ex'es whom she swore she had no interested, 1,2,3,4,5 exes emailed all one after the other and sold a sob story, it was a matter of fishing and opportunity, whichever responded would have done. Maybe I have a particular disordered ex but I believe this is common of BPD. And another reason not to reach out and stay strong.

[Loveofhislife]

Pingo! Wow--yes! Would love to know the name of the documentary--I met exbfBPD online, but oddly, he had just moved next door to my best girl friend. I now wonder if he searched me on the online site.

Anyway, we corresponded online for several weeks and eventually met in a local bookstore. He looked very nervous, pale, and not very well dressed for a first meeting. He was late. I called him to say I might be running late, and he said; "You're not canceling on me, are you?"  

After getting him seated and calmed down, he was immediately trying to idealize and mirror. A few small empathy hooks--like his wife cheated on him. He almost fell out of his chair when I said I had worked as a "Fed" (little did I know he had deviated from his work and halfway house where he was living).

I didn't see him again for several weeks but continued to correspond online. The second meeting was at a restaurant near his apartment where he was nearly 2 hours late from being lost? He arrived trembling at the point of tears and carrying a white, 3-ring binder which he presented to me. HUGE EMPATHY HOOK (and a test as you are describing).  

He proceeded to tell me that as a former "Fed", I was probably already aware that he was in the custody of the USBOP (yes! Bureau of Prisons). I was beyond stunned. This guy was a waif, and I could not imagine his surviving federal prison much less perpetrating anything to get him there.

A year long story followed, but your post really makes me think. I thought, "Why on Earth would this man unload all this on me on a second date? Now, I think it was absolutely an EMPATHY TEST!

Well, I must have passed that test because I spent the next year of my life rescuing, saving, and HELPING him. Unbelievable.

[Pingo]

and on that note, this is the same for when you get contacted. We like to believe they contact us cos they are in such emotional pain and have been wrestling with their conscience for months and have finally reached out... .maybe that is true for some, but in my experience, my exBPDw wouldn't reach out at all if she were not bored or in need of a "hit". We seperated many times, and I found out she reached out to ex'es whom she swore she had no interested, 1,2,3,4,5 exes emailed all one after the other and sold a sob story, it was a matter of fishing and opportunity, whichever responded would have done. Maybe I have a particular disordered ex but I believe this is common of BPD. And another reason not to reach out and stay strong.

No Trog, mine did the same thing.  Was living with an ex gf before and after our recycle (unbeknownst to me) and also contacted an ex gf that supposedly broke his heart and cheated on him... .such nonsense!  These were women he had nothing nice to say about!  When I found out that he had moved back in with me never telling me that he had been living with his ex gf made me sick and realised he was truly a pathological liar!  It also made me realise that all the times my gut was saying he was keeping secrets I was probably right.  Still hard for me to wrap my hear around how I could marry this man!

Pingo! Wow--yes! Would love to know the name of the documentary--I met exbfBPD online, but oddly, he had just moved next door to my best girl friend. I now wonder if he searched me on the online site.

 

I didn't post the documentary bc I wasn't sure if people outside of Canada can see the video.  Anyhow, you can find it on the CBC ":)oc Zone" and the documentary is called "The psychopath next door".  If you can access it let me know what you think.

She said one bf tried to pour gasoline on her and light a match. I thought   why would someone do that to her? That's crazy!

Ugh, Mutt!  That is terrible!  How could you possibly not be shocked and feel empathy for a story like that!  Do you now believe it was a story she made up or did it really happen?  Some of the stories my ex told me were so outrageous and hard to imagine, now I wonder about the validity of many of them.  So sad!

[maternal]

Yes.  My ex is a pro at this.

Got hooked with the life story of surviving ethnic cleansing and war in his home country, being "sent away" (his words) by his parents during the war to a refugee camp, surviving the refugee camp on his own (he had his sister - who had to become his mother during this time, something that was pointed out to him by his aunt - aunt and uncle and their two sons... .he was never alone, though it wasn't mom or dad), coming to America as a teen and being the big outcast in high school... .his ex wife was horrible to him, that one ex just took everything from him and used him... .etc. etc. etc. 

I knew he was a deeply wounded individual when I met him, he made sure of that.  It didn't deter me, though.  I was gonna show him what "real" love was! 

[Mutt]

Ugh, Mutt!  That is terrible!  How could you possibly not be shocked and feel empathy for a story like that!  :)o you now believe it was a story she made up or did it really happen?  Some of the stories my ex told me were so outrageous and hard to imagine, now I wonder about the validity of many of them.  So sad!

Long story short.

The replacement moved April this year. She moved out and got her own place and living at his place half the time and her place half the time starting in 2013.

Before she left, I was the one getting blasted. Now it's SD15 (there's S3,S6,D8). SD15 is split black from her mom and her family ( my exe's mom and dad ) and think that she's a "bad kid"

My   goes out to SD15. She's been suicidal and was hospitalized twice. It's a cry for help. There was a time when social services got involved and said she couldn't stay home with mom and had to stay with someone else. She went to grandma's ( my exe's mom ) and she threw everything she own in the front lawn and told her to get out.

I had a conversation for 1.5 hours over this summer with SD15 on my stoop. I didn't mention that mom is mentally ill, I did point out some behaviors like black and white thinking. I validated her. I told her sorry for what had gone on at home when we're together and that I couldn't fight for her in court. I told her I was sorry that her dad abandoned her.

She said "Mutt, your the only person that stuck up for me in my life"

What can I say? I'm a stubborn man and I care. I don't give up.

I mostly listened for the entire 90 minutes. She told me stories that I had heard from her mother's perspective and were very different coming from a child's perspective. A child abandoned by dad, and with mom with a boyfriend that had a prostitute business ( true, the father had a ring ) and she was so confused and scared.

I recall on one of my ex's borderline rages she was up in her room distraught (SD15) and was on the floor in a fetal position with her hands over her ears and said "why does my mom fight with all of her boyfriends!" and that had stuck with me after the split and when I heard of BPD.

I believe SD15 recounting of this event. Her mom and boyfriend were fighting and my ex was bloodied up. SD15 says ex was thrown down the stairs. This was the boyfriend before me, when I met SD she was 5. I don't think it was gasoline. It was this event. I believe SD15 because my ex had said that SD was present and said "can you believe what he did in front of SD?"

SD15 cuts and I had thought perhaps she has traits from mom. The entire 90 minutes I talked to her, I didn't hear projecting, emotional blackmail etc. She owned what was hers. She's simply a child that got caught up in all of this dysfunction and people around mom listen to mom's stories. I was one that listened to those stories when I was with my ex as well about SD15.

She needed someone to listen to her side. Hopefully I reconnect with her later in life and be supportive because I understand borderline personality disorder. For now, her plan is to move out when she's 16 because she can't tolerate my ex and her abusive control and emotional abuse.

SD gets my sympathy and empathy.

[Caredverymuch]

Last night I watched a documentary about psychopaths.  They said they always start a r/s by sending out an empathy hook to see if you will catch it (if you don't show that capacity for empathy they'll move on to the next victim).  They are looking for that empathy bc that makes us vulnerable.  Although I don't think my ex was a psychopath (did have some traits though) he did send out that empathy hook right away, long before he started idolising me and making me feel oh soo good!  His hook was the sad story of his life.  He had a tragic brain injury 11 yrs ago.  He lost his memories of his wife and children.  It was really heartbreaking.  He seemed so deeply wounded yet struggling to be normal and happy.  This was definitely what snared me! It clouded my judgement when I started to see red flags.

Just wondering if you all experienced that empathy hook early on in the r/s?  I think for me, seeing it for what it was will hopefully make me a little smarter next time around.

Very much so Pingo. Not only did his essence elicit a sense of great and gentle vulnerability, I recognized it in him the moment we met.  It was absolutely like a cosmic force. We were friends for a good while prior to a romantic r/s.   I could always " feel" him underneath the brave mask he portrayed to others.  I could easily see the sweet man/child in need of saving. What I didn't EVER see was the horrifically mean child/man intertwined.  I was a likely a fantastic host for those empathic waif driven declarations, coming out of a long marriage to who I always believed to be a NPD but more recently feel my spouse was a very high functioning BPD.  As my t said, two men who appear very different but who are exactly the same man underneath.

The empathy card was extremely unique to the waif BPD.  The lack of empathy was always apparent in my ex spouse, much more high functioning. 

One raged inward, the other outward.  Both took advantage of my empathic nature.  In both situations, it was ultimately all about their needs.  They just went about it quite differently in the r/s. 

[Tiepje3]

I knew he was a deeply wounded individual when I met him, he made sure of that.  It didn't deter me, though.  I was gonna show him what "real" love was! 

Exactly! My uBPD/NPDstbxh was 'stuck' in a bad marriage, taking care of wife who was addicted to prescription drugs. He only stayed until both his sons were in college, which was around the time when I met him. I applauded him for staying and taking care of his kids. I felt so sorry for him that he was not able to have a 'normal' life. And yes... .I was going to show him what it could be like to be loved, to be wanted, and most of all: to be appreciated. Duh... .

And now the replacement is probably going to show him the same thing, because I'm addicted to smoking, even though he 'told me to quit' and I 'just wouldn't do it' and he hung in there because of his stepchildren (my kids). Same story, different actors.

The good thing about this is that I'm getting better, growing from this experience, healing (slowly). I have my children, my family. He has to start all over again and he is the one who's going to repeat himself. I will not make the same mistake twice!