Radical Acceptance and friendship with ex

[parisian]

I have gone NC for a while, and met up with my exBPDgf last week.

I've done a bit of work in trying to understand her illness and have also been seeing a psych about resolving deeply what got me into that and made it okay for me to break my boundaries for a year and a half with her behaviour.

I would like to try radical acceptance of her illness and still be there for her, only as a friend.

I realise I can never have the type of relationship with her that I had previously - it just will never work and will be too difficult for me to sustain.

I appreciate it the abandonment issues are significant for her, and realise she will likely move on to new supply at some point. I really think I'm okay with that.

I would like to offer some friendship still, which means simply being there for her on occassions, doing some regular meditation together and having green tea afterwards.

I'm wanting this out of compassion for her - we were friends of sorts for ten years before we had a relationship.

I'm interested in if other people have made this work, what are people's views on this?

[Mutt]

I agree. How detached are you?

[Blimblam]

I think it's possible. As mutt said though it depends on how detached you are.  By detached I mean to not take crap personally.

[parisian]

I've been doing lots of mindfulness exercises to help detatch, and reading about how to detatch in communication.

She only raged at me when she was drunk - I have no intentions of being around her when she is drunk.

There was the usual put downs and negative views. I feel like that will be much easier to deal with, with some humour and calmness on my part, and certainly not being in the relationship feels like I'm less likely to take those comments to heart. I feel like it is much easier to detatch knowing she is not a 'normal healthy adult', and understanding now why she can't have 'normal healthy adult' conversations. Prior to realising she was BPD, and in the relationship, it just upset and perplexed me so much as to why she couldn't. I get that she can't really do that so I've dropped my expectation around that.

I suppose it is a bit of a test, so I will see. I don't plan to spend alot of time with her, just a catch up every now and again, so there's only limited opportunity for her to engage in that sort of behaviour with me.

We caught up for coffee last week, and the conversation was the usual very pragmatic and functional, which is fine really. Provided we don't talk about emotions, I think sticking to the pragmatic stuff and news/current affairs will make it easier.

Any other tips?

[Blimblam]

Don't try to help her solve her problems.

[Reforming]

Hi Parisian,

It's sounds like you've been doing a lot of good work on yourself, which is impressive and worthy of praise.

Well done  

Probably because I'm still suspicious of both my own motives if I renewed contact - and I've been thinking about it recently - and my abilities to remain fully detached I wonder what you would really gain from renewing contact

I don't mean to be judgemental, I completely understand the profound pull of these relationships, but meaningful friendship is based on mutual, reciprocative support.

"We caught up for coffee last week, and the conversation was the usual very pragmatic and functional, which is fine really. Provided we don't talk about emotions, I think sticking to the pragmatic stuff and news/current affairs will make it easier.



Speaking for just for myself I need some emotional quality for any relationship to be worthwhile and you seem to be suggesting that the only safe way for you to interact is to avoid this.

Even in healthy circumstances it is very, very hard to dial down a failed romantic relationship back to casual friendship, but when there's BPD involved there so much extra scope for hurt and confusion.

I think you are looking to practice or test your detachment there are probably healthier outlets

On the other hand maybe this is something that you need to work through to feel fully detached.

Either way the best of luck

Reforming

[parisian]

Reforming thank you for you wise words. Much appreciated.

The renewing contact is really a deep level compassion thing, and possibly some desire to want to try and retain what existed from a former friendship with her. Well, at least that's how I'm trying to justify it to myself at the moment anyway.

You're right - usually it takes at least a couple of years to dial back to 'friendzone' following a break up from a normal healthy relationship.

I feel like I have had a headshift about her. In the sense that when I see her, I don't see her as I did when I was in the relationship. It's like she's a stranger with some familiarity if that makes sense?

Understanding now she had BPD, it's like I never really knew who she was. That the mask she presented to me for all those years was just that - she was never really that person. And that I will never really know the 'real' her anyway because what is that? I know what she likes and what she doesn't. I know what she feels strongly about. I know what she collects. But that is really the sum of my knowledge about her.

I'm using all that to continue to detach.

[Ihope2]

My first instincts are to say it won't work.  Not unless the ex partner with BPD is in voluntary therapy and is really trying to work on their own recovery, too.

A friendship is based on reciprocity and ideally a 50:50 dynamic.  Will she understand and suddenly be able to conduct your friendship accordingly? 

I doubt it very much.  Whatever triggered her in the past, will continue to trigger now.

What's in all of this for you?

[HappyNihilist]

I would like to offer some friendship still, which means simply being there for her on occassions, doing some regular meditation together and having green tea afterwards.

I'm wanting this out of compassion for her - we were friends of sorts for ten years before we had a relationship.

I'm interested in if other people have made this work, what are people's views on this?

If I'm hearing you, it sounds like you want to attempt a friendship more out of compassion for her than to fulfill your own needs. Could part of it be worry that she doesn't have a good support system? Do you feel like she needs someone compassionate in her life?

I certainly think it's possible to have a relationship with someone after a breakup, even if that person has a PD, but you're absolutely right -- it has to come from a place of radical acceptance, and you have to ensure that you protect yourself first and foremost.

I've personally resigned myself to having some sort relationship with my exBPDbf -- less friendship and more of "someone from my past I still care about but don't need in my life". Like you, I was friends with my ex before the relationship. He doesn't have a good support system, and I feel like I can handle the occasional check-in and catch-up with detachment. If this feeling ever changes, I will have to re-evaluate.

If you feel like this is something you want to do, then by all means, only you can make that decision. You've certainly done a lot of good, hard work on yourself. Detachment and radical acceptance is hard as hell, but it is more than possible. I would just advise you to always keep in touch with your own feelings and reactions. You may find that you're ok with it all; you may realize that this isn't something you want, after all. There's no shame in changing your mind and protecting yourself.

You have to do what you feel is best in your life. Just please, always take care of yourself.   

[Hawk Ridge]

I am following this as I would like to accomplish the same task.  Please keep me updated.  At least, ftom your experience, I have a starting point.

[Caredverymuch]

My first instincts are to say it won't work.  Not unless the ex partner with BPD is in voluntary therapy and is really trying to work on their own recovery, too.

A friendship is based on reciprocity and ideally a 50:50 dynamic.  Will she understand and suddenly be able to conduct your friendship accordingly? 

I doubt it very much.  Whatever triggered her in the past, will continue to trigger now.

What's in all of this for you?

I would venture the same advise.  I understand your altruism. I was friends w my expBPD as well for a great deal of time prior to the r/s.  I always wanted the "friendship" component to continue in the r/s and most certainly post chaos. It was something I said to him several times. The element I missed the most.

It's a mature choice to remain friends after a romantic B/U and takes dual commitment in caring for one another as individuals who's r/s may not have worked, but who's friendship is of value.

In personal inventory, the goal it so learn and then protect oneself... .from what we learned.

Choose wisely.

[Grey Kitty]

If your ex had issues in dealing with intimacy when you were together, I'd expect those to continue if you have any intimacy in your friendship. (i.e. topics beyond the weather)

I have an ex that I ended things with mostly because she couldn't really handle/negotiate intimacy, jumping in to deep too quickly, and not able to ask for what she wanted in a straightforward enough way for me to be able to say yes. Recently I've distanced myself from the intimate friendship... .because these issues are still there, and aren't worth it for me.

Most pwBPD have a serious push-pull dynamic in a r/s. Several members here have tried to have a friendship of sorts when the r/s failed, and found that the push-pull dynamic was there in the friendship as well.

Whether this will 'work' for you or not is for you to figure out. Depending on what you want out of this friendship, you may be fine with it.

[parisian]

If I'm hearing you, it sounds like you want to attempt a friendship more out of compassion for her than to fulfill your own needs. Could part of it be worry that she doesn't have a good support system? Do you feel like she needs someone compassionate in her life?

I certainly think it's possible to have a relationship with someone after a breakup, even if that person has a PD, but you're absolutely right -- it has to come from a place of radical acceptance, and you have to ensure that you protect yourself first and foremost.

I've personally resigned myself to having some sort relationship with my exBPDbf -- less friendship and more of "someone from my past I still care about but don't need in my life".

Some great points and suggestions - thank you. 

She has a support system of 'sorts' - she does have some stable long term friends - in hindsight I think some of them must be aware of her disorder. Unfortunately she also has an enabler group which are all about drinking, and it is when she gets drunk that she is triggered to rage. I have no intention being around her when she is drunk.

I'd like to be able to catch up occasionally and do something benign, like lunch or coffee. The meditation today was actually a great success. I once gave her a copy of Eckhardt Tolle's book -  'A New Earth', and she applied some of those principles when she went travelling by herself, and a bit a crisis arose and she said she had kept herself together from that.

Today was a limited time frame (only an hour), but the first time for her back in my house which I was a little nervous about, but worked out okay. One thing I did notice though, was that an hour before she arrived, I started experiencing anxiety like I had in the r/s - my neck and throat muscles all tensed up, and I actually had to meditate before she arrived to meditate ( how ironic). I felt really good afterwards though, and she sent me a thanks text to say so did she, and that she might get the program that I had, herself. I hope she does - apparently meditation is very helpful for BPD (helpful for anyone really). The program I have is called 'Headspace' - it's a mobile phone app and it also has some crisis 'SOS' sessions, in case of mini meltdowns. Unfortunately it is a subscription program, but around $100 for a year for piece of mind I think is cheap.

The short time frame today meant there was not too much conversation, just enough to be polite. The meditation was very relaxing and took up 10 minutes of the time, then we had a green tea and a bit of a chat. She was in a much more relaxed and easy going mood than when I first caught up with her last week (the first time since we had broken up really). Last week she seemed a bit distant and cold, and just talked pragmatically at me. She did seem more relaxed today, and were able to both do something positive for our respective mental health.

I know I can't fix or help her and don't want to go down that path again (always work to do on codependency issues), but if I can show some compassion and be a support of sorts, particularly if we do something positive like meditate, then that is something I'd really like to continue with.  I might ask in about 3 weeks if she would like to do that again.

I realize she might change her mind about doing this in future, especially if a replacement comes along. I guess I will cross that hurdle when I gets to it.