Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
December 11, 2024, 12:24:22 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Beware of Junk Psychology... Just because it's on the Internet doesn't mean it's true. Not all blogs and online "life coaches" are reliable, accurate, or healthy for you. Remember, there is no oversight, no competency testing, no registration, and no accountability for many sites - it is up to you to qualify the resource. Learn how to navigate this complicated arena...
115
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Did they ever tell you to "never contact them again"?  (Read 4169 times)
Xidion
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 295


« on: December 03, 2014, 07:51:03 PM »

After 20 months my XBPD left me for someone else. We had little contact... only about belongings and such. Right before we were suppose to exchange them, she texted me and said "Just throw my things away and never contact me again. I don't want you anymore, you go ape ___ on me". Can anyone tell me exactly what she meant by this? It was really confusing. Maybe me giving her stuff back would trigger abandonment.  What are the chances I'll hear from her a few months from now?
Logged

DangIthurts
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 181


« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 08:00:00 PM »

doesn't look good bud. I'm probably in that same boat. Mines said that multiple times. I think we've made it 9-11 days without some sort of interaction I know no more on my part it just upsets her and I only get meaner responses.
Logged
guy4caligirl
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 692


« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 08:06:19 PM »

Same here no hope in them they don't look back .
Logged
behindme

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 49


« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2014, 08:15:43 PM »

This was a tag line of the first uBPD I knew.  Used it on others before he ultimately used it on me.  I think it's also a protective device b/c he wanted to be spared of the ___ he knew people would call him on... .this, of course, was only after I finally started calling him out on his nonsense.  The one other time that happened to me was when I'd done similarly to an acquaintance I suspected of being bipolar and she responded in an email the same way; I ultimately called out my uBPD exDIL although we had very limited contact after that and it was left unsaid.

Truthfully, I think a large part of it is fear and their need to feel as if they are left with some degree of control in a situation where they realize they truly have very little. 
Logged
Infern0
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1520


« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 08:17:16 PM »

Yeah mine has told me that several times,  she always comes back sniffing around after a while
Logged
Faith1520
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 62



« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 08:19:38 PM »

He hasn't said that yet, but I wouldn't be surprised. I left him but he did nothing but push me away both before and after the relationship ended. When he started firing off hurtful and hateful texts I began to ignore him. If he told me now to not contact him anymore then that could make him feel better, like it was his decision and he's in control (cause it seems he always has to be) I also wouldn't be surprised if I never heard from him again. That way he can continue to play the victim, telling everyone that I left him and then completely ignored him.

I told him I was going to drop off his stuff (while he wasn't home) and I was told not to or he would call the police... .said he didn't want me there when he wasn't there. Maybe, like you said, getting his things back would've been a trigger for him. So I guess I'm going to give the stuff to goodwill. I sent his key in the mail yesterday and I'm worried that will trigger him and he'll contact me again saying more terrible things.

Unfortunately no one can really tell you what she meant or if you will hat from her again. As I'm sure you are aware,  Pw/BPD are so unpredictable. We can only learn how they think and make a guess as to what they are thinking or what they will do.
Logged
ShadowIntheNight
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Posts: 442


« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 09:07:04 PM »

Mine has never, ever said it. Not in the first go round of breaking up 4 years ago, not this time. It's been since August and we have had extremely limited contact. I even gave her a scorched earth send off in August, of which I am not proud and have since been able to apologize for. Even then all she has said is that she is not yet ready to have extended contact. It makes me think even she knows that she can't stand where she's managed to put herself this time.

I have only come to the conclusion recently with my own research and speaking with my therapist that she may be BPD. Naturally they are undiagnosed.
Logged
DangIthurts
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 181


« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2014, 09:09:45 PM »

she has said is that she is not yet ready to have extended contact. It makes me think even she knows that she can't stand where she's managed to put herself this time.

I have only come to the conclusion recently with my own research and speaking with my therapist that she may be BPD. Naturally they are undiagnosed.



Sounds like a control thing. That to me says she's dictating tempo not you, and certainly not mutually.
Logged
Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 09:25:53 PM »

Mine always said "when I'm done, I'm done". Been almost 4 months now, she's been with the new dude almost 4 months, so I think I'm pretty safe... .
Logged
ShadowIntheNight
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Posts: 442


« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2014, 09:35:21 PM »

Definitely Danged. She also said that we both need to "think about the words" I said (in my scorched earth diatribe) and the truth in them. When I read her reply, I knew that's exactly what she was doing. I even told my therapist that she was trying to control me when I saw my T after receiving the ex's email.

I also received a silent hangup phone call yesterday evening, around the time she would call me in the past when she was leaving her office. I guess now the most she can go has turned into 2 weeks, although she can't seem to bring herself to say anything. I guess that's her control issues too.
Logged
billypilgrim
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Separated since 10/2014. Divorce will be finalized 10/2015.
Posts: 266


« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 09:45:14 PM »

She did not say that to me, I said that to her.  After she walked out on our marriage of course.  She was blabbering on about insurance and what not, I told her to leave me alone.  So far, she's managed to do what I asked.  I hope it continues aside from the few outstanding legal matters that are remaining.  I can't believe I was duped for long.  In the span of one month, I went from totally trusting her with the potential of my first child to not trusting her as far as I can throw her.  Normal relationships don't end this way, do they?

It's hard for me to even muster any sympathy or empathy for her at this point given everything I put into the relationship.  Especially when compared to what I got out of it - which I still can't totally quantify in any real way.  I certainly didn't get love.  I received some consolation "affection" when I did things that she wanted me to do.   I received sexual enjoyment out of the r/s when things were good.  I certainly didn't improve any as a person and while I gained some great family members from her side (most of which it's now extremely weird to contact), I lost a lot of my friends (close girlfriends especially) and even some of my own family.  

What did I gain out of these last 6 years?  Other than a tough lesson in relationships that I could have learned in 6 months instead of 6ING YEARS.  How am I a better person that I was 6 years ago?  I'm older, clearly more jaded, and I've come to the realization that my marriage was a complete joke.  Blaming this all on a mental illness just doesn't seem to cut it right now.  It's shallow and feels like a cheap excuse, regardless of the circumstances.  What I felt for her was real and the fact that another human being can treat me this way and walk out on me after all that I've given her is mind boggling, what the was I even doing?  The too-many-to-count other boyfriends are far luckier than I.  They got out while the gettin was good.

I'm clearly back in the anger stage of dealing with things, which is good because I loathe both the depression and bargaining stages.  I'm long passed denial.  When does acceptance come into play with all this?  It's been a month since she left, I'm assuming I've got a while.

/rant. Going to bed.  Need to sober up.
Logged
Pingo
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: Separated
Posts: 924



« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 10:21:45 PM »

After 20 months my XBPD left me for someone else. We had little contact... only about belongings and such. Right before we were suppose to exchange them, she texted me and said "Just throw my things away and never contact me again. I don't want you anymore, you go ape ___ on me". Can anyone tell me exactly what she meant by this? It was really confusing. Maybe me giving her stuff back would trigger abandonment.  What are the chances I'll hear from her a few months from now?

I agree it is about control.  Mine told me to never contact him again.  Refused to reply to my email request to exchange our stuff.  He was wanting to make me squirm I think.  And I believe he had replaced me so was happy to ignore me.  Now almost 6 mths later, I've replaced all the stuff he refused to return.  I've mailed his stuff to his brother's.  NOW he has decided to contact me!  Started harassing me by text/email/phone.  I've ignored all until this past Monday when I sent him an email and I threatened him, if he contacts me one more time I will go to the police and get a restraining order.  No more of him controlling me.  I've called a halt to it!
Logged
Splitblack4good
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 452



« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2014, 11:52:30 PM »

After 20 months my XBPD left me for someone else. We had little contact... only about belongings and such. Right before we were suppose to exchange them, she texted me and said "Just throw my things away and never contact me again. I don't want you anymore, you go ape ___ on me". Can anyone tell me exactly what she meant by this? It was really confusing. Maybe me giving her stuff back would trigger abandonment.  What are the chances I'll hear from her a few months from now?

Ha ha been down this road when I moved in with my ex bpf gf she had little in the way of furniture etc but I had a load of stuff so we used that when we split up well shall I say push pull recycles she said come get your stuff out my house I don't want it here just reminds me of you I want all of it gone ! So I'd make arrangements get there and she would beg me not to leave her here comes the twist I broke it off for good over a month ago at the time I said can I get my stuff and she kept prolonging it I had to keep on at her about it even tho she got a new bf she still got some of my stuff there now but I thought it reminded her of me ? Weird! She told me to never contact her again either and I havnt the stuff didn't really owe me anything it's strange it's almost like they want to keep it as a reminder or an excuse to contact you later or they just don't care and think oh well least I got something out of him ! Lol who knows how the boarderlines think
Logged
DangIthurts
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 181


« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2014, 12:03:53 AM »

After 20 months my XBPD left me for someone else. We had little contact... only about belongings and such. Right before we were suppose to exchange them, she texted me and said "Just throw my things away and never contact me again. I don't want you anymore, you go ape ___ on me". Can anyone tell me exactly what she meant by this? It was really confusing. Maybe me giving her stuff back would trigger abandonment.  What are the chances I'll hear from her a few months from now?

Ha ha been down this road when I moved in with my ex bpf gf she had little in the way of furniture etc but I had a load of stuff so we used that when we split up well shall I say push pull recycles she said come get your stuff out my house I don't want it here just reminds me of you I want all of it gone ! So I'd make arrangements get there and she would beg me not to leave her here comes the twist I broke it off for good over a month ago at the time I said can I get my stuff and she kept prolonging it I had to keep on at her about it even tho she got a new bf she still got some of my stuff there now but I thought it reminded her of me ? Weird! She told me to never contact her again either and I havnt the stuff didn't really owe me anything it's strange it's almost like they want to keep it as a reminder or an excuse to contact you later or they just don't care and think oh well least I got something out of him ! Lol who knows how the boarderlines think

Yeah mine was taking pictures using stuff I gave her, wearing an expensive jacket I gave her in a snapchat I saw,  and flat out refused to return jewelry she said those were gifts... .I said why keep stuff from someone you hate?
Logged
Splitblack4good
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 452



« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2014, 12:15:35 AM »

After 20 months my XBPD left me for someone else. We had little contact... only about belongings and such. Right before we were suppose to exchange them, she texted me and said "Just throw my things away and never contact me again. I don't want you anymore, you go ape ___ on me". Can anyone tell me exactly what she meant by this? It was really confusing. Maybe me giving her stuff back would trigger abandonment.  What are the chances I'll hear from her a few months from now?

Ha ha been down this road when I moved in with my ex bpf gf she had little in the way of furniture etc but I had a load of stuff so we used that when we split up well shall I say push pull recycles she said come get your stuff out my house I don't want it here just reminds me of you I want all of it gone ! So I'd make arrangements get there and she would beg me not to leave her here comes the twist I broke it off for good over a month ago at the time I said can I get my stuff and she kept prolonging it I had to keep on at her about it even tho she got a new bf she still got some of my stuff there now but I thought it reminded her of me ? Weird! She told me to never contact her again either and I havnt the stuff didn't really owe me anything it's strange it's almost like they want to keep it as a reminder or an excuse to contact you later or they just don't care and think oh well least I got something out of him ! Lol who knows how the boarderlines think

Yeah mine was taking pictures using stuff I gave her, wearing an expensive jacket I gave her in a snapchat I saw,  and flat out refused to return jewelry she said those were gifts... .I said why keep stuff from someone you hate?

Crazy is as crazy does ! Lol my ex asked if she could have her engagement ring back after she thew at me once ! Now we split up she wants it back I refused purely for the fact she thew at me and told me she wouldn't marry a guy like you ! And reminded her she said that when she asked for it all I got was fine keep it you will prob just sell it my response was YEP ! It will be on ebay if you wana bid on it !
Logged
peiper
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 805



« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2014, 12:48:23 AM »

It's an emotional/ control thing. Don't contact her, I'll bet she contacts you within a few months.
Logged
Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2014, 05:11:15 AM »

It's an emotional/ control thing. Don't contact her, I'll bet she contacts you within a few months.

God I hope not. The replacement is doing his job!
Logged
Earthbayne
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 98


« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2014, 05:24:08 AM »

Mine hasn't, but I bet at some point she will. Her birthday is coming up soon and I'm sure she'll message me to remind me that I missed it... .and probably to never contact her again.

I hope so.
Logged
Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2014, 05:57:14 AM »

Mine hasn't, but I bet at some point she will. Her birthday is coming up soon and I'm sure she'll message me to remind me that I missed it... .and probably to never contact her again.

I hope so.

Her B-day came and went, I said nothing. Mine was about 2 weeks later, she said nothing... .win win... .
Logged
misty_red
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 159


« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2014, 06:16:34 AM »

Yup, mine did. She said "Leave me alone finally.". Happened four month ago. Never heard from her again since directly, but she showed up at a match (she was in my sports team but left it). Funny how they demand you to leave them alone when they feel like showing up whenever they want to. Whatever. I hope she won't show up again because it would make me feel miserable for sure.
Logged

Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2014, 06:39:31 AM »

Yup, mine did. She said "Leave me alone finally.". Happened four month ago. Never heard from her again since directly, but she showed up at a match (she was in my sports team but left it). Funny how they demand you to leave them alone when they feel like showing up whenever they want to. Whatever. I hope she won't show up again because it would make me feel miserable for sure.

Unfortunately, nothing you can do about that. Im the same. Constantly have my head on a swivel to make sure I dont see her and if I do, I have the means to get the fu*k out of there. Unfortunately, she coaches my son and her son in High School Volleyball, so Im kind of stuck with that part... .sheesh... .
Logged
harbour
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 96


« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2014, 07:40:13 AM »

No, he didn't. I broke up with him 10 days ago. In a letter. He started sending me loving and desperate messages after 4 days. I didn't respond. Then he was silent for a few days. And yesterday he sent me a warm and concerned message. And wishing me a good Christmas month. Then I couldn't take it any more, not responding at all. So I sent him a message, telling him I was OK, and that the reason why I was silent and not responded to his messages was that I didn't want to give him hopes for something that was not going to happen. And wished him a good month and Christmas too. He responded with another warm message, he was so glad to hear a few words from me and that I let him know that I was OK. It was the best calendar gift he could get, he wrote. And he was decorating his home for Christmas.

Not so BP like, is it? This has been a very big surprise for me. I expected that he would react with hateful messages. There hasn't been one. Maybe he still hopes for something, and he is trying to do his best to get me back. I don't know. Or he is maybe relieved somehow in the midst of the sorrow. Because the pressure has lifted. From the beginning he has been extremely anxious of losing me. I did all I could to show him that I really cared and loved him. But it only got worse. During the first idealization period he expressed his anxiety, very honestly and intense. But then came the first painting me black, turning cold and distant, and scary outbursts of rage. And running away. Manipulating, controlling. It all got worse. And I reached my limit for what I could deal with.

Who knows? It's only been 10 days.
Logged
downwhim
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 707



« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2014, 11:33:10 AM »

Yes, my BPDx has said, "once I move on I move on". He will not contact me. He is too into rebound now. I blocked him off phone and email. NC. It is hard because many times I wonder what he is doing. I am not one to drive by his house or make a fool of myself that way. I think it is the holidays that triggers these feelings too. I have to say I do not miss that continuous anxious feeling. Never knew what mood I would get.
Logged
Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2014, 12:19:30 PM »

Yes, my BPDx has said, "once I move on I move on". He will not contact me. He is too into rebound now. I blocked him off phone and email. NC. It is hard because many times I wonder what he is doing. I am not one to drive by his house or make a fool of myself that way. I think it is the holidays that triggers these feelings too. I have to say I do not miss that continuous anxious feeling. Never knew what mood I would get.

Weird isnt it? Not sure why I miss someone so damned abusive. I dont get it... .
Logged
Targeted
Formerly CaresAboutSomeoneLikeThis
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 445



« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2014, 12:32:04 PM »

I don't get it either Deeno, i'm in the same boat
Logged
jammo1989
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 492


« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2014, 01:09:39 PM »

Mine always said "when I'm done, I'm done". Been almost 4 months now, she's been with the new dude almost 4 months, so I think I'm pretty safe... .

Exactly the same as you, when im done im done, and almost 4 months with my replacement Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
Logged
guy4caligirl
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 692


« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2014, 01:12:45 PM »

Mine always said "when I'm done, I'm done". Been almost 4 months now, she's been with the new dude almost 4 months, so I think I'm pretty safe... .

Exactly the same as you, when im done im done, and almost 4 months with my replacement Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Same here 4 months with my replacement and the " leave be"  thing !  Took the same night class didn't they ?
Logged
Targeted
Formerly CaresAboutSomeoneLikeThis
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 445



« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2014, 01:16:57 PM »

My ex also always said- when I am done I'm done and just move on!  Only this was a lie because she was the one INITIATING contact the past five months until I put a end to it.
Logged
Xidion
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 295


« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2014, 01:20:36 PM »

I honestly think that they tell us this so there is no interference with the replacement. They are idealizing them and feel they don't need anyone else.  As soon as they start devaluing them,  who do you think they are going to reach out to?  Whether it be 6 months or a year,  eventually they will see if you are still available.
Logged

guy4caligirl
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 692


« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2014, 01:34:28 PM »

Do you really  think so  Xidion   or is it wishful thinking ?

After all the hurt they put us trough , hanging up saying the worth about us , treating us like nothing ,and you know the rest ... .

how do they have the gut to ask us to take them back does anyone witness that  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ?
Logged
Xidion
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 295


« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2014, 01:42:18 PM »

Do you really  think so  Xidion   or is it wishful thinking ?

After all the hurt they put us trough , hanging up saying the worth about us , treating us like nothing ,and you know the rest ... .

how do they have the gut to ask us to take them back does anyone witness that  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ?

It could be wishful thinking. I talked to the guy before me, he said she reached out to him 4 or 5 different times while her and I were together.  Anything can happen. Be prepared to ignore any attempts they may make in the future. We all know what will happen.
Logged

jammo1989
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 492


« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2014, 01:52:56 PM »

I honestly think that they tell us this so there is no interference with the replacement. They are idealizing them and feel they don't need anyone else.  As soon as they start devaluing them,  who do you think they are going to reach out to?  Whether it be 6 months or a year,  eventually they will see if you are still available.

Based on experience, i can tell you why they tell you never contact me again,  There are a number of different reasons why they do this these are as follows:

Cluster Bs NEED to be in control of the situation, if they feel as if they have lost control their anxiety heightens in fear that you will abandon them first.  So by saying never contact me again, their basically saying, Im the one in control here not you, in theory it would suggest that they play out the punitive parent role of their own mother or father, and they are punishing us as the parent for nor meeting their needs.  For example, imagine a child that gets told no you cant have that, they proceed to try and regain control by slamming the door in a passive aggressive manner because even though the child is angry at the parent (us) after a while they will re open the door just to see if the parent is still in the house (sending a text with no reply) and when they see the parent, its their way of thinking, well im now going to give him/her the silent treatment, but its ok because he/ she is still their when needed.

They also push us away to the point of no return because, they know deep down that, we now know who they really are as people.  They will push us away as far as they possibly can to protect their true identity.  For example, my ex blocked me on FB, and her replacement has over 900 friends on FB and one mutual friend with me, 3 weeks into their relationship i noticed that, my one mutual friend had been deleted.  The Cluster B will say this to the new guy/girl i dont want (insert name) trying to destroy our relationship, even though THEY told us NEVER contact me again.  What he/she is really thinking at this point is this, I dont want my ex talking to my new bf/gf because I know that he will find out the truth.  Furthermore, it is also said to us in the sense that, don't contact me again actually means... .Ill contact you when i NEED you.

We are now the trigger to their anxiety/depression, to rid themselves of such symptoms they have to push us away as much as they can in order to feel in control of their negative emotions, these are mere children running away from unresolved trauma.  This is solely the reason why they are so cruel to us when they know that, the attachment they have lined up is actually the guy that rids her of these emotions, that is why they become idolized, they are basically saying, thank you for saving me from depression, i owe you so much for saving me from my own self destruction.  They dont love the new person, they are only with them because right now her attachment is in place.  This basically means that no depression or anxiety can exist during this period.  

 
Logged
shellbent
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 123



« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2014, 02:23:05 PM »

Mine always said "when I'm done, I'm done". Been almost 4 months now, she's been with the new dude almost 4 months, so I think I'm pretty safe... .

Exactly the same as you, when im done im done, and almost 4 months with my replacement Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Same here 4 months with my replacement and the " leave be"  thing !  Took the same night class didn't they ?

Funny, my ex told me the same exact thing, in other words. If I close a chapter, I don't go back. Well the reason this is funny is because she wasn't talking about me, rather her ex before me. Apparently when we broke up he wanted to get back together with her. Which is obviously a lie because he had found someone new and after a year I don't think he would take her back. So she reversed the situation, in fact she wanted to go back to the alleged cheater and douche. In my case though she didn't block me on fb or anything just said "let me live my life the way I need to".

So her ex in my guess deleted her and family from FB, only 3 months later she already had re-added him.

On the other hand I pretty much made her break up with me due to a lot of stress and a crappy life situation happening. She wouldn't even talk to me after I told her that I was devastated and couldn't stand to see her as just a friend (and also co-worker).

So I kept her on FB and she is with a new "love".

So funny that in only 3 months she found the person she had always been waiting for... .

She is never contacting me again, and even though there were some disagreements (not even really fights, we were really compatible), I have a really good feeling that this new guy is a joker and has nothing on me. If she could understand the things that I do, it would all be different.

But it isn't this all went down in one of the worst possible ways. Still recovering from the blow almost 6 months later.

All I want is to feel what I did when I was with her. If I could just find someone like that, but then also someone who isn't emotionally feeble.

Logged
Xidion
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Posts: 295


« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2014, 02:35:02 PM »

I honestly think that they tell us this so there is no interference with the replacement. They are idealizing them and feel they don't need anyone else.  As soon as they start devaluing them,  who do you think they are going to reach out to?  Whether it be 6 months or a year,  eventually they will see if you are still available.

Based on experience, i can tell you why they tell you never contact me again,  There are a number of different reasons why they do this these are as follows:

Cluster Bs NEED to be in control of the situation, if they feel as if they have lost control their anxiety heightens in fear that you will abandon them first.  So by saying never contact me again, their basically saying, Im the one in control here not you, in theory it would suggest that they play out the punitive parent role of their own mother or father, and they are punishing us as the parent for nor meeting their needs.  For example, imagine a child that gets told no you cant have that, they proceed to try and regain control by slamming the door in a passive aggressive manner because even though the child is angry at the parent (us) after a while they will re open the door just to see if the parent is still in the house (sending a text with no reply) and when they see the parent, its their way of thinking, well im now going to give him/her the silent treatment, but its ok because he/ she is still their when needed.

They also push us away to the point of no return because, they know deep down that, we now know who they really are as people.  They will push us away as far as they possibly can to protect their true identity.  For example, my ex blocked me on FB, and her replacement has over 900 friends on FB and one mutual friend with me, 3 weeks into their relationship i noticed that, my one mutual friend had been deleted.  The Cluster B will say this to the new guy/girl i dont want (insert name) trying to destroy our relationship, even though THEY told us NEVER contact me again.  What he/she is really thinking at this point is this, I dont want my ex talking to my new bf/gf because I know that he will find out the truth.  Furthermore, it is also said to us in the sense that, don't contact me again actually means... .Ill contact you when i NEED you.

We are now the trigger to their anxiety/depression, to rid themselves of such symptoms they have to push us away as much as they can in order to feel in control of their negative emotions, these are mere children running away from unresolved trauma.  This is solely the reason why they are so cruel to us when they know that, the attachment they have lined up is actually the guy that rids her of these emotions, that is why they become idolized, they are basically saying, thank you for saving me from depression, i owe you so much for saving me from my own self destruction.  They dont love the new person, they are only with them because right now her attachment is in place.  This basically means that no depression or anxiety can exist during this period.  

 

This sounds pretty spot on.
Logged

evilpepsi
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 142


« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2014, 03:13:41 PM »

My ex would text me and then end the text with do not text me back. It was a control thing for her. She had to do it before I disengaged from the conversation.

At the end though, I told her to never contact me again and then I blocked her number. Its been a week since things fell apart, but it also feels like so long ago... .
Logged
day2day

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 43



« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2014, 05:58:26 PM »

My BPDexgf did something even more bizarre than tell me not to contact her.

When she abruptly terminated our six year R/S, I asked her if we still might want to communicate, or is this IT? Her reply was that if I felt further communication was too painful for me to engage in, she could certainly understand. Not only did that allow her to avoid directly answering my question, but it also made her (in her twisted mind) feel compassionate and sensitive.

After about 3 months of NC, I got a sweet letter from her along with a tug-at-the-heartstrings gift. I was even told by her that I was more than welcome to show my face in her immediate neighborhood. A few days later, after I dropped off a small token of goodwill in return, I got an e-mail that I should NOT come around again, she had a new BF, and she realized by my gesture that she was wrong to think that we could "remain friends." So in other words, I got punished for doing what a gentleman should probably do. I got set up and knocked down, and once again she manipulated the scenario to take herself off the hook. What kind of person does this? And once again, I might add, I got the false compassion. "I don't want to  subject you to any more pain or anguish, so I will refrain from contacting you."

It was around that time... .roughly a year ago... .when I fortunately discovered BPD. All I can say is, wow. It all begins to come into focus. This website has been VERY helpful. I'd appreciate hearing from other readers regarding the mind games I've just described. Does any of it sound familiar?
Logged
captainp

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 42


« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2014, 04:47:10 AM »

I honestly think that they tell us this so there is no interference with the replacement. They are idealizing them and feel they don't need anyone else.  As soon as they start devaluing them,  who do you think they are going to reach out to?  Whether it be 6 months or a year,  eventually they will see if you are still available.

Based on experience, i can tell you why they tell you never contact me again,  There are a number of different reasons why they do this these are as follows:

Cluster Bs NEED to be in control of the situation, if they feel as if they have lost control their anxiety heightens in fear that you will abandon them first.  So by saying never contact me again, their basically saying, Im the one in control here not you, in theory it would suggest that they play out the punitive parent role of their own mother or father, and they are punishing us as the parent for nor meeting their needs.  For example, imagine a child that gets told no you cant have that, they proceed to try and regain control by slamming the door in a passive aggressive manner because even though the child is angry at the parent (us) after a while they will re open the door just to see if the parent is still in the house (sending a text with no reply) and when they see the parent, its their way of thinking, well im now going to give him/her the silent treatment, but its ok because he/ she is still their when needed.

They also push us away to the point of no return because, they know deep down that, we now know who they really are as people.  They will push us away as far as they possibly can to protect their true identity.  For example, my ex blocked me on FB, and her replacement has over 900 friends on FB and one mutual friend with me, 3 weeks into their relationship i noticed that, my one mutual friend had been deleted.  The Cluster B will say this to the new guy/girl i dont want (insert name) trying to destroy our relationship, even though THEY told us NEVER contact me again.  What he/she is really thinking at this point is this, I dont want my ex talking to my new bf/gf because I know that he will find out the truth.  Furthermore, it is also said to us in the sense that, don't contact me again actually means... .Ill contact you when i NEED you.

We are now the trigger to their anxiety/depression, to rid themselves of such symptoms they have to push us away as much as they can in order to feel in control of their negative emotions, these are mere children running away from unresolved trauma.  This is solely the reason why they are so cruel to us when they know that, the attachment they have lined up is actually the guy that rids her of these emotions, that is why they become idolized, they are basically saying, thank you for saving me from depression, i owe you so much for saving me from my own self destruction.  They dont love the new person, they are only with them because right now her attachment is in place.  This basically means that no depression or anxiety can exist during this period.  

 

This is exactly what mine did.  Exactly.

What are the chances that being split black (on the first occasion) is permanent?  Like, if you could throw out an estimated percentage?

After I returned her stuff I hadn't heard from her in a week, when she sent me a bunch of angry texts messages.  I made the mistake of responding, asking her what the bleep she was talking about.  She responded by calling the cops on me and claiming that I was harassing her.  She placed a No Contact order on me, I believe, in order to be in control of future contact.

I turned over our private texts to the police in order to prove that she was the one who contacted me, and then placed a No Contact order on her (because she was now scaring the crap out of me).

So now we are legally prohibited from contacting each other, however, she had been recently covertly monitoring my social media accounts, so I suspect that she might split me white at some point in the future.

What are my (estimated) chances of never hearing from her again?

I hope that she stays away, but I'd be lying if I said that I don't miss her at all.  Her good side was really good.  I just couldn't handle the push-pull behaviour.
Logged
PaintedBlack28
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 89


« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2014, 07:33:26 AM »

She left suddenly, no words, no reasons, she disappeared, vanished. Blocked on every possible way. My xBPDgf threatened me with a restrain order when I tried to reach out for at least a closure... .almost a month after I cassually bumped onto her in the street and her reaction was like if I had a knife in my hand. She called on some cops that were nearby and told them I was harrassing her, following her. Then she left, never turning back. The next day I receive a call from her father telling me she is undergoing with a very heavy crisis and I am asked to never, ever under any circumstances contact her again, by any means or else he would take legal action against me...

I will never hear from her again, that's what I know for sure.

That was the closure I got.  
Logged
hope2727
*******
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1210



« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2014, 10:45:34 AM »

Yikes painted black that is so scary. I am sorry you are enduring all that. Is there anything you can do preemptively to protect yourself? Maybe a restraining order or something?

Mine told me over and over that he never looked back. He was referring to other people. Yet he threw a hissy fit when I was uncomfortable with all his ex's commenting on our Facebook posts. I asked him if he felt it was appropriate to keep ex girlfriends and one nighters as FB friends let alone the married woman under his command he had the affair with. Particularly now that we were engaged. He freaked. No accountability.They were always commenting on his posts about us and our pictures. Even inviting themselves to join us when we were out somewhere. Including when we were on holidays celebrating a major academic accomplishment of mine. Creepy.  He accused me of having exs as FB friends so we sat down and cruised my whole 43 person friend list to discover nope no exs.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) FB is so weird. Anyway apparently he doesn't look back. He does steal friends both real world and FB from me. It was part of his excellent smear campaign. So my FB list is even smaller. :-) Thats ok. I am pretty comfortable with the friends I have and don't collect people like ornaments. My ex certainly kept tabs on all his exs on FB and in real life asking about them when we were out with mutual friends. It was odd.

Mine told me never contact him again then sobbed about how I hadn't reached out to him. augh the exhausting contradiction.

Logged
Faith1520
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 62



« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2014, 06:59:04 PM »

shellbent and captainp- YES. His good side was damn near perfect. So many good qualities. I would LOVE to find someone else who has all of those things, but I just can't imagine it happening.

I really would like to start dating again soon... .I'd like to get married and have children one day and I'm no spring chicken... .but right now I can't imagine even going on a date with someone else. I'm hoping it's the fact that I'm still healing but I'm worried that I'm never gonna feel like dating again. I just feel so ruined from this experience and I'm worried that it will never go away.
Logged
Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2014, 07:20:03 PM »

Oh yeah, how can I forget the "I dont think we should communicate because I dont want you to think theres any hope for something theres not"... .How nice of her. I feel like such a damn idiot.
Logged
downwhim
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 707



« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2014, 09:40:42 PM »

Yes, miss those good qualities too. Would love to duplicate them in a future date but I too am gun shy of even thinking of another relationship. I am exhausted from him!

My ex BPD said "when I am done, I am done." Such a John Wayne, so macho and a way to control the whole break up.

Replacement, I have a message for you... .the worst is yet to come!
Logged
blissful_camper
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 611



« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2014, 10:50:10 PM »

Jammo and Xidion pretty much nail it.  I heard "don't contact me" when he was dysregulating.  :)uring the r/s, and when I left him.  I was quite certain I wouldn't hear from him again.  About halfway through my recovery, I received an apology which in retrospect was him testing the waters.  Then just over a year out another "feeler" from him.  The members here suggested he was on the rocks with my replacement, and while I didn't know the status of ex and relacement, the speculation on this forum was correct.  They are now broken up.  

Don't contact me is a way for my ex to feel like he has the upper hand and it's a form of control.  It really means go away until I need my needs met by you again.  It was hurtful and for months I took it personally.  (Logically I knew he did this to others, including family members)  

Your SO has said this to others before you, and there will be others after you who will hear those same hurtful words.
Logged
misty_red
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 159


« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2014, 11:35:19 PM »

As some other people stated I think it really is some control-thing. I got the "Leave me alone finally" and yet she's the one being around and contactinc through third parties. If they say it, they really mean it in this way "YOU don't contact me again. But I will. I have the upper hand and it's up to me, when there's contact again." That's it. A control-thing.
Logged

sirius
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 120



« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2014, 09:24:39 AM »

The strange thing about my ex is that she bever said do not contact me. She said many similar things like :

1. I will change my number and move away

2. Please dont stir things up everytime

3. Please move on and take this opportunity to start a new life

4. we were never meant to be together from the begining

5. Why do you want to hurt me


After all these messages, she then kept me unblock and use another line for daily use.
Logged
whythisgirl
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 117


« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2014, 01:29:36 PM »

My xBPD recently told me never to contact him again but he is showing up at places he knows I will be. Weeks ago I was the one saying these things because of his crazy mood swings but he would wheel me back in. Now the tables have turned and I'm now devalued so I think he really means it.
Logged
Deeno02
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1526



« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2014, 01:36:20 PM »

My xBPD recently told me never to contact him again but he is showing up at places he knows I will be. Weeks ago I was the one saying these things because of his crazy mood swings but he would wheel me back in. Now the tables have turned and I'm now devalued so I think he really means it.

Good. He made a choice, he needs to live with it. Move on and get strong!
Logged
misty_red
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 159


« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2014, 02:47:01 PM »

My xBPD recently told me never to contact him again but he is showing up at places he knows I will be. Weeks ago I was the one saying these things because of his crazy mood swings but he would wheel me back in. Now the tables have turned and I'm now devalued so I think he really means it.

The EXACT thing is happening to me right now. I have no idea what's going on. Have been told to leave her alone but she is the one showing up at places whereshe  just knows 100% that I'll be at and yet I'm getting the silent treatment. I'm not reacting in any way and am ignoring her. Still it pisses me off. Glad I do have impulse control and can hide my distress from her.
Logged

Splitblack4good
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 452



« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2014, 01:29:49 PM »

As some other people stated I think it really is some control-thing. I got the "Leave me alone finally" and yet she's the one being around and contactinc through third parties. If they say it, they really mean it in this way "YOU don't contact me again. But I will. I have the upper hand and it's up to me, when there's contact again." That's it. A control-thing.

Yep this is so true that's what ex said I never want to talk to you again do not contact me !

2 weeks later got a text .
Logged
shellsh0cked
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 180



« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2014, 03:17:44 PM »

During recycles I got that... .Don't ever contact me again... .yet she would send hateful emails and texts and torture me for weeks.  When I tried NC she went even crazier.

The last words I had with mine?  She was on her way to jail for coming to my house at 3am to stab me to death with some knives she got at Wal-Mart, public intoxication... .refusing to leave and smarting off to police... .Oh yeah, and the $4000 worth of damage she did to my car... .let's not forget that.   She was SCREAMING at me... ."How could you do this to me!"  You could have knocked me over with a feather... .My response?  "you brought this on yourself... ."  Nobody told her to come over there and do that.  She was waiting on me to come home... .Oh yeah.  It was because she "thought" I was looking at some other woman?  :)idn't happen... .but isn't that a great reason to make and attempt on someone's life, destroy their property and wind up in jail?

Following Monday?  Restraining order to which I gave a mutual friend the message that if she contacted me in any way?  Any way... .email, phone, text... .through a friend?  For ANY reason?  I swore to god she would go to jail without a second thought.  This was a NO CONTACT order and I told him that meant "none" and I wasn't ___ing around with her anymore.  I had enough!

I haven't heard from her since.  2 and a half years.  It's a good thing... .I hope to never hear from her again or see her face.

Funny, a mutual friend said that she was STILL blaming me for all of her current troubles... .2 and a half years later.  And that I needed to admit to my "part" in it... .wowza!  I got an enormous laugh out of that... .
Logged
shellsh0cked
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 180



« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2014, 03:20:53 PM »

Dupe... .sorry.
Logged
sweet tooth
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 781



« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2016, 10:48:04 PM »

Mine told me "do not contact me again." That was almost three weeks ago. Whenever I go on LinkdIn it says she viewed me a minute ago... .
Logged
Teereese
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 133


« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2016, 02:54:45 PM »

 

So much in this topic is so relative.

We are in the process of divorce and have 2 children, so there has to be some contact, unfortunately. I wanted to go NC but it was not feasible with some of the issues at hand. I have been LC.

Generally, I do not initiate contact with him. In fact, I avoid contact with him ... .that inch becomes a mile in his mind. He tries to act nice but there is always an ulterior motive with him.

My children are late teens, so they are free to contact him and he them, however, their contact ends up with him trying to give them messages for me, so they have opted to limiting their own contact with him.

A short time ago, he began text communication with me regarding some divorce issues. He wanted me to give him specifics of what I want in a settlement. He "offered" to do things, which he is court ordered to do anyway, as though he was doing me a favor. Such a manipulator. Since a settlement had been offered by my L (and refused by him), I referred him back to that document. His texts became nasty and ended angrily. Oh well. He thought he would get me to agree to stuff and use it against me.

Recently, he began to call over some other issues. I sent the calls to voicemail, so I could process whatever he was contacting about. He would not leave a voicemail  ... .typical because he wants no proof of the conversation and an immediate reaction/results and I have learned not to give in to him.

I received a text from him instructing me never to call or text him again unless it had to do with our daughters. I never initiated any calls or texts to him.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Within a few days, he texted me about some nonsense. I forwarded him his text regarding not calling or texting. He then cries to his L that I refuse to contact him.

Logged
SummerStorm
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Friend
Posts: 926



« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2016, 04:09:55 PM »

In July, my BPD friend write me a letter and told me to never contact her again.  This was five weeks after she cut me out of her life and said she wanted me out of her life forever.  Less than a month after she sent the letter, she texted me and asked if she could live with me. 

In September, she told me she didn't want to be friends and blocked my number.  A few months later, she friended me on Facebook and texted me. 

She told her dad she wanted to kill him and got a new phone number and refused to give it to him.  A few months later, she texted him like nothing had happened and asked him to help her move out of her ex-boyfriend's place. 

She's told a lot of people to never contact her again, but that doesn't mean she won't be contacting those people again.
Logged

So when will this end it goes on and on/Over and over and over again/Keep spinning around I know that it won't stop/Till I step down from this for good - Lifehouse "Sick Cycle Carousel"
Frustratedbloke
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 141


« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2016, 04:48:57 PM »

You think it's maybe their last throw of the dice at control? It's the only thing they've got left? Like you say if they want you, they'll forget they ever said it. But it's like pressing the self destruct button when you know you've lost the war, it at least makes them feel they destroyed it.

I am done I think, but ironically I think I played the game quite well, by accident. I told her that on certain terms, I'd love to hear from her again, but I wouldn't expect to. I gave her the final power. Never contacting me again is the only power she'll have.

I hope she enjoys it.

Logged
MapleBob
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 724



« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2016, 06:26:01 PM »

I told her that on certain terms, I'd love to hear from her again, but I wouldn't expect to. I gave her the final power. Never contacting me again is the only power she'll have.

I hope she enjoys it.

That's exactly what I did, almost three months ago. Not a peep.
Logged
JRT
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1809


« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2016, 01:12:54 AM »

Mine texted me when I was away on a work trip... ."our relationship is over... .I have moved out... .do NOT try to contact me'. Since this was ENTIRELY out of the blue, I called around to her family and friends to see what was going on (they were all shocked). She texted back threatening to call the cops if I did that again. She blocked me everywhere and I finally tired to call her from a hotel on another business trip, she had a lawyer send me a letter threatening a PPO! Ditto when I tried the same several months later and then a year after the fact (including the cops).

Sure, I would also go along with it being about control but I also have wondered if it was her provoking me to see how far I would go to salvage our relationship; are you prepared to defy the law to reach out and come and get me. I eventually had to sue her in order to get my engagement ring returned and she fought even that in a Herculean way, eventually capitulating as the case was set to go to trail and she had no other option but to appear.  It was bizarre to say the least... .its been almost a year and a half... .I very seriously doubt I will ever hear from her again.
Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2014; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12180


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2016, 02:12:02 AM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit. Please feel free to start a new topic to continue the discussion...
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!