When we're devaluated by pwBPD and they leave, do they feel the pain later?

[guy4caligirl]

When they plan, leave ,and replace us quick means the detached from us a while ago in the R/S .

Could that be why  they don't go through the pain and give us the cold shoulder ?

After the honey moon is over and hit the fan, they still say" I am blissfully happy I found the man " they lie .

Is it because they regret and the hurting over us starts?

Perhaps that's when they feel the pain themselves of loosing us ?

It just a thought what 's your take on that ?

[Blimblam]

I think it depends but in large part their defense mechanisms keep them from feeling that pain although I think most will have moments they are through it and feel bad then seek out impulsive behaviors to numb the pain and attachments to introject a new identity to further distance themselves from it.

This is why they need a bad object to project their own crap into and see it as part of the bad object. If they have successfully seen the bad object absorb their crap then the bad object is the one that processes it. They don't really tend to process it they just project it and run away from it for others to deal with.

[Mutt]

I dont believe my ex planned. She lacks impulse control and acts on impulse without giving thought to consequences.

I triggered her fear of abandonment what she fears most. She starting looking for another man then left. An attachment, she lacks a stable sense of self and doesn't really know who she is.

Black and white thinking is destructive and she didn't see the collateral damage she did to our family. It hurts everyone.

As Blimblam says, she projected her bad. The more she projected her negative feelings while she was dysregulated I fought back. She would dysregulate into longer periods and into dissociative phases and the last one was a long phase. She wasn't returning to her emotional baseline and she couldn't cope.

The disorder is a series of protective defense mechanisms, maladaptive coping skills. She copes differently than I and feels differently by two thousandfold. If you're interested check maladaptive schemas.

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

If you are a member that identifies with the "Lonely Child" (more commonly referred to as the "Vulnerable Child" and want to understand what it is all about, read about Jeffery Young's Schema therapy

In Schema terms, 2010 described two deep-rooted psychological problems characterized by repetitive life patterns and core life themes, called maladaptive "schemas."   Maladaptive schemas develop in difficult situations and are often survival strategies that are functional within a specific setting early in life.  The problem is that they are maladaptive in other situations or at later stages in life.    

Schema Mode-Abandoned/Abused Child   The borderline patient is seen as being motivated by four or five maladaptive schema modes that make up an inner theater that is filled with pain and conflict. The Abandoned/Abused Child mode is the core schema of the patient.  This is a child who lives in fear and terror and who has no allies in the world.  People in this mode are quite frightened and troubled.  Jeffery Young, PhD and founder of Schema Therapy, stresses that psychologically and emotionally, borderline patients are little children around the age of 4 or 5.  In times of difficulty or high stress, it is helpful to try to see them as children instead of adults.  "Connection", for the Abandoned/Abused Child, is a matter of survival, and this drives much of the intensity that is found in the relationships of these patients.

Schema Mode-Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child  The  Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is a maladaptive schema characterized by feelings of being lonely, isolated, sad, misunderstood, unsupported, defective, deprived, overwhelmed, incompetent, doubts self, needy, helpless, hopeless, frightened, anxious, worried, victimized, worthless, unloved, unlovable, lost, directionless, fragile, weak, defeated, oppressed, powerless, left out, excluded, pessimistic.  The Lonely Child is prone to act in a passive, subservient, submissive, approval-seeking way around others out of fear of conflict or rejection; tolerates abuse and/or bad treatment; selects people or engages in other behavior that directly maintains the self-defeating schema-driven pattern.

It has been pointed out how idealization is a vehicle that can connect people in these two schemas.  The Abandoned/Abused Child is desperately seeking a connection and in BPD that drives an overreaction (idealization).  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is approval seeking and revels in it. The Lonely child is also prone to try to cling to the relationship long after it has turned bad as they are tolerant of and often feel deserving of bad treatment.

All of this is a bit over simplified in the thread, but it is an easy intro to a very powerful tool for personal inventory. Schema therapy is largely used for pwBPD tendencies or pwNPD tendencies.  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child schema can be present in people with either BPD tendencies, NPD tendencies, or other personality tendencies.  

But most importantly, there is another child... .the Happy Child.

Schema Mode-Happy Child: The Happy Child feels loved, contented, connected, satisfied, fulfilled, protected, accepted, praised, worthwhile, nurtured, guided, understood, validated, self-confident, competent, appropriately autonomous or self-reliant, safe, resilient, strong, in control, adaptable, included, optimistic, spontaneous.

The Schema model and the tenets of the therapy can help us deal with our early maladaptive schemas and move toward the "Happy Child".  

Here is an overview of Schema Therapy:

www.g-gej.org/10-1/schematherapy.html

[enlighten me]

I completely agree that to a pwBPD  they often feel the relationship is over before we know. I bumped into an ex friend of my exgf. She was painted black by her and they stoped talking. I told her I had split from mu ex in may and she was suprised as my ex had told her we were over more than a year earlier than that. That corresponded to the end of the honeymoon phase and the start of the initial devaluing.

I think after that I was just a meal ticket. When I told her I was moving out we spoke about a few things. One was when I asked her what she wanted from our relationship she said to be able to look at me and not hate me. This added to my realisation that she had decided we were over long before and that by staying she was hating herself for the things she had done and hating me for being a constant reminder of it.

[guy4caligirl]

I don't believe my ex planned. She lacks impulse control and acts on impulse without giving thought to consequences.

Mutt thx for the correction  

I call that Bad judgment , my ex was pro at that , if someone said thank you to her she thinks the world about him quick !

[Blimblam]

I read one of Jeffery youngs books and found it to be very helpfull to map out what happened. Especially in conjunction with the karpman triangle and reading the book the search for the real self the personality disorders of our age.  The projective identification and introjective identification book by Thomas Ogden will highlight what I feel are the main defense mechanisms at work and between all those books and some contemplation I think a fairly clear picture of what happened can emerge.  A defense mechanism many of us nons used was cognitive dissonance the denial of our gut feel to try to make things work while in the lonely child schema mode.  The book why do I do that explains the defense mechanisms.  Also the book the lucifer effect by Phillip Zimbardo highlights how people can be put into a situation to commit Vile acts and puts it in the context of situational circumstances. 

[Mutt]

I don't believe my ex planned. She lacks impulse control and acts on impulse without giving thought to consequences.

Mutt thx for the correction  

I call that Bad judgment , my ex was pro at that , if someone said thank you to her she thinks the world about him quick !

It hurts like hell when your cheated on. Add devaluation, smear campaign and invalidation on top of that it's not fun! Understand I'm not coming from a place as to invalidate what you feel. It's painful stuff.

I agree it is bad judgement and that bad judgement ( lack of impulse control ) is a characteristic of BPD. Learning about BPD depersonalized the behaviors.

[guy4caligirl]

It really come down to this in my opinion after all what I learned from reading tis sites and other articles

WE cannot change who they are period  .

They are very clever at manipulating finding a way to survive .

They steal conn justify in order to survive .

they had us fooled .

they made us cry and at the end the tossed us like a sandwich wrap .

They don't look back as they have no conscience .

Angry sad or forgiven Does NOT matter period .

Get on with your life YOU can do it .

My take . They are not worth the time in my opinion !

[myself]

It's not like it's one-size-fits-all. Some do, some don't.

Some relationships are deeper than others, even for pwBPD.

Running from your pains and regrets doesn't make them not exist.

[guy4caligirl]

It's not like it's one-size-fits-all. Some do, some don't.

Some relationships are deeper than others, even for pwBPD.

Running from your pains and regrets doesn't make them not exist.

Thanks for your wisdom ,It's not the question of running from my pain , I face my pain everyday but I fighting a lost battle I have done it for 5 years . Isn't that enough ?

I wish she comes to her senses and wants treatments , but I can't do anything about and not wanting to waist my next five years waiting ?

[Blimblam]

Guy I was very angry and frustrated for a very long time in fact I am still frustrated. Anger is an appropriate response to abuse.  Something I once heard the dalia lama say is "the heart remembers."  I infer from that, trauma doesn't just go away.

There are a lot of articles on the web about BPD and abusive relationships but they tend to be superficial and many of them are tainted with projected shame and anger.

it felt very personal for me for a long time. I read a bunch of books and meditated a lot. The books I mentioned I think will give a pretty clear frame work to work through.  That said a good therapist would be really helpfull for anyone after a relationship like we all went through.

[Mutt]

It's not like it's one-size-fits-all. Some do, some don't.

Some relationships are deeper than others, even for pwBPD.

Running from your pains and regrets doesn't make them not exist.

Thanks for your wisdom ,It's not the question of running from my pain , I face my pain everyday but I fighting a lost battle I have done it for 5 years . Isn't that enough ?

I wish she comes to her senses and wants treatments , but I can't do anything about and not wanting to waist my next five years waiting ?

It's possible when we're knee deep in pain we can't see someone else's.

Grieve.

[myself]

^ Referring to the 'they' who run away.

We all do. Pain makes us withdraw/react.

When it's faced, healing has a better chance.

So I hope our exes do feel something later.

Something true, whatever it is. I hope we all do.

Realizing we've all been loved and have loved.

[guy4caligirl]

In the end I got on this site because I hurt , I wish for all of us to obtain what we really want , truly  I want another  chance at  it but I know she doesn't... .let's see what the future hold and I agree in general they are truly unique . good luck for all of us .

[Splitblack4good]

I dont believe my ex planned. She lacks impulse control and acts on impulse without giving thought to consequences.

I triggered her fear of abandonment what she fears most. She starting looking for another man then left. An attachment, she lacks a stable sense of self and doesn't really know who she is.

Black and white thinking is destructive and she didn't see the collateral damage she did to our family. It hurts everyone.

As Blimblam says, she projected her bad. The more she projected her negative feelings while she was dysregulated I fought back. She would dysregulate into longer periods and into dissociative phases and the last one was a long phase. She wasn't returning to her emotional baseline and she couldn't cope.

The disorder is a series of protective defense mechanisms, maladaptive coping skills. She copes differently than I and feels differently by two thousandfold. If you're interested check maladaptive schemas.

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

If you are a member that identifies with the "Lonely Child" (more commonly referred to as the "Vulnerable Child" and want to understand what it is all about, read about Jeffery Young's Schema therapy

In Schema terms, 2010 described two deep-rooted psychological problems characterized by repetitive life patterns and core life themes, called maladaptive "schemas."   Maladaptive schemas develop in difficult situations and are often survival strategies that are functional within a specific setting early in life.  The problem is that they are maladaptive in other situations or at later stages in life.    

Schema Mode-Abandoned/Abused Child   The borderline patient is seen as being motivated by four or five maladaptive schema modes that make up an inner theater that is filled with pain and conflict. The Abandoned/Abused Child mode is the core schema of the patient.  This is a child who lives in fear and terror and who has no allies in the world.  People in this mode are quite frightened and troubled.  Jeffery Young, PhD and founder of Schema Therapy, stresses that psychologically and emotionally, borderline patients are little children around the age of 4 or 5.  In times of difficulty or high stress, it is helpful to try to see them as children instead of adults.  "Connection", for the Abandoned/Abused Child, is a matter of survival, and this drives much of the intensity that is found in the relationships of these patients.

Schema Mode-Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child  The  Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is a maladaptive schema characterized by feelings of being lonely, isolated, sad, misunderstood, unsupported, defective, deprived, overwhelmed, incompetent, doubts self, needy, helpless, hopeless, frightened, anxious, worried, victimized, worthless, unloved, unlovable, lost, directionless, fragile, weak, defeated, oppressed, powerless, left out, excluded, pessimistic.  The Lonely Child is prone to act in a passive, subservient, submissive, approval-seeking way around others out of fear of conflict or rejection; tolerates abuse and/or bad treatment; selects people or engages in other behavior that directly maintains the self-defeating schema-driven pattern.

It has been pointed out how idealization is a vehicle that can connect people in these two schemas.  The Abandoned/Abused Child is desperately seeking a connection and in BPD that drives an overreaction (idealization).  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is approval seeking and revels in it. The Lonely child is also prone to try to cling to the relationship long after it has turned bad as they are tolerant of and often feel deserving of bad treatment.

All of this is a bit over simplified in the thread, but it is an easy intro to a very powerful tool for personal inventory. Schema therapy is largely used for pwBPD tendencies or pwNPD tendencies.  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child schema can be present in people with either BPD tendencies, NPD tendencies, or other personality tendencies.  

But most importantly, there is another child... .the Happy Child.

Schema Mode-Happy Child: The Happy Child feels loved, contented, connected, satisfied, fulfilled, protected, accepted, praised, worthwhile, nurtured, guided, understood, validated, self-confident, competent, appropriately autonomous or self-reliant, safe, resilient, strong, in control, adaptable, included, optimistic, spontaneous.

The Schema model and the tenets of the therapy can help us deal with our early maladaptive schemas and move toward the "Happy Child".  

Here is an overview of Schema Therapy:

www.g-gej.org/10-1/schematherapy.html

Now this is interesting my ex Bpdgf is showing 80% vunrable child traits and 20% abandoned traits based on how well I know her . Is it possible to have most of one and a little of the other based on the induvidual ? It was actually spooky reading this as I couldn't put my finger on all the traits based on BPD that matched exactly to my ex but sums her up to a tee ! Is it also possible for vunreble child to feel regret quicker of ther lack of impulse control ? I think my ex is feeling Pretty regrettable only a month out of our relationship and jumping to a new bf the next day as she was lashing out and projecting regret .

[Splitblack4good]

Although my ex shows a high percentage of vunrable child she does idolise massively ! Aswell as trying her hardest to seek aproval her new bf is unemployed and after only a month they are joined at the hip they are always together in comparison to myself I was working sumtimes long hours if by going from one extreme to the other is my ex likely to feel overwhelmed quickly as apposed to engulfed ? I've heard they have had 2 or 3 arguments already after only 4 weeks our first argument wasn't untill 4 months in . Any views on this will be appreciated .

[peiper]

I dont believe my ex planned. She lacks impulse control and acts on impulse without giving thought to consequences.

I triggered her fear of abandonment what she fears most. She starting looking for another man then left. An attachment, she lacks a stable sense of self and doesn't really know who she is.

Black and white thinking is destructive and she didn't see the collateral damage she did to our family. It hurts everyone.

As Blimblam says, she projected her bad. The more she projected her negative feelings while she was dysregulated I fought back. She would dysregulate into longer periods and into dissociative phases and the last one was a long phase. She wasn't returning to her emotional baseline and she couldn't cope.

The disorder is a series of protective defense mechanisms, maladaptive coping skills. She copes differently than I and feels differently by two thousandfold. If you're interested check maladaptive schemas.

PERSPECTIVES: From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

If you are a member that identifies with the "Lonely Child" (more commonly referred to as the "Vulnerable Child" and want to understand what it is all about, read about Jeffery Young's Schema therapy

In Schema terms, 2010 described two deep-rooted psychological problems characterized by repetitive life patterns and core life themes, called maladaptive "schemas."   Maladaptive schemas develop in difficult situations and are often survival strategies that are functional within a specific setting early in life.  The problem is that they are maladaptive in other situations or at later stages in life.    

Schema Mode-Abandoned/Abused Child   The borderline patient is seen as being motivated by four or five maladaptive schema modes that make up an inner theater that is filled with pain and conflict. The Abandoned/Abused Child mode is the core schema of the patient.  This is a child who lives in fear and terror and who has no allies in the world.  People in this mode are quite frightened and troubled.  Jeffery Young, PhD and founder of Schema Therapy, stresses that psychologically and emotionally, borderline patients are little children around the age of 4 or 5.  In times of difficulty or high stress, it is helpful to try to see them as children instead of adults.  "Connection", for the Abandoned/Abused Child, is a matter of survival, and this drives much of the intensity that is found in the relationships of these patients.

Schema Mode-Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child  The  Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is a maladaptive schema characterized by feelings of being lonely, isolated, sad, misunderstood, unsupported, defective, deprived, overwhelmed, incompetent, doubts self, needy, helpless, hopeless, frightened, anxious, worried, victimized, worthless, unloved, unlovable, lost, directionless, fragile, weak, defeated, oppressed, powerless, left out, excluded, pessimistic.  The Lonely Child is prone to act in a passive, subservient, submissive, approval-seeking way around others out of fear of conflict or rejection; tolerates abuse and/or bad treatment; selects people or engages in other behavior that directly maintains the self-defeating schema-driven pattern.

It has been pointed out how idealization is a vehicle that can connect people in these two schemas.  The Abandoned/Abused Child is desperately seeking a connection and in BPD that drives an overreaction (idealization).  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child is approval seeking and revels in it. The Lonely child is also prone to try to cling to the relationship long after it has turned bad as they are tolerant of and often feel deserving of bad treatment.

All of this is a bit over simplified in the thread, but it is an easy intro to a very powerful tool for personal inventory. Schema therapy is largely used for pwBPD tendencies or pwNPD tendencies.  The Lonely Child / Vulnerable Child schema can be present in people with either BPD tendencies, NPD tendencies, or other personality tendencies.  

But most importantly, there is another child... .the Happy Child.

Schema Mode-Happy Child: The Happy Child feels loved, contented, connected, satisfied, fulfilled, protected, accepted, praised, worthwhile, nurtured, guided, understood, validated, self-confident, competent, appropriately autonomous or self-reliant, safe, resilient, strong, in control, adaptable, included, optimistic, spontaneous.

The Schema model and the tenets of the therapy can help us deal with our early maladaptive schemas and move toward the "Happy Child".  

Here is an overview of Schema Therapy:

www.g-gej.org/10-1/schematherapy.html

Now this is interesting my ex Bpdgf is showing 80% vunrable child traits and 20% abandoned traits based on how well I know her . Is it possible to have most of one and a little of the other based on the induvidual ? It was actually spooky reading this as I couldn't put my finger on all the traits based on BPD that matched exactly to my ex but sums her up to a tee ! Is it also possible for vunreble child to feel regret quicker of ther lack of impulse control ? I think my ex is feeling Pretty regrettable only a month out of our relationship and jumping to a new bf the next day as she was lashing out and projecting regret .

A lot of these people are comorbid , I know mine has BPD and NPD traits which makes them hard to understand.  One minute a hurt child the next a rattlesnake

[fromheeltoheal]

Think attachments with borderlines.  What a borderline wants is the same as what everyone wants: to love, to be loved, to be in love.  Problem is if they get too close to someone they feel engulfed, afraid they will lose themselves, and if they get too far away they feel abandoned, a continual push/pull.  So a borderline will leave either because it stops the feeling of engulfment or because they feel they're about to be abandoned, so they leave first; it's a reaction to feelings, an attempt to feel better.

While that works in the short term it does nothing to address the underlying persecution complex and the internalized punitive parent, so the shame just grows.  So think about that: someone who wants desperately to love and be loved, just like everyone else, can never actually get there without feeling engulfed, and the response to that is to add to their shame.  That is a very painful existence.  It's unfortunate that we ended up in that world for a while, but we have the choice to leave and heal, while they do not.  After we go through the stages of grieving we need to, finding compassion will feel better and sit well in our hearts, a worthy goal?

[Mutt]

Now this is interesting my ex Bpdgf is showing 80% vunrable child traits and 20% abandoned traits based on how well I know her

A lot of these people are comorbid , I know mine has BPD and NPD traits which makes them hard to understand.  One minute a hurt child the next a rattlesnake

A schema mode in a person with an emotional disorder are rigid mind states from life situations that the person finds offensive triggers these schema modes.

Here is information and background on EMS ( Early Maladaptive Schemas ) and what it is.

What is an Early Maladaptive Schema (EMS)?

An early maladaptive schema has been defined by Jeffrey Young as ‘a broad pervasive theme or pattern regarding oneself and one's relationship with others, developed during childhood and elaborated throughout one's lifetime, and dysfunctional to a significant degree’.  Schemas are extremely stable and enduring patterns, comprising of memories, bodily sensations, emotions, cognitions and once activated intense emotions are felt.  When a person has an EMS like abandonment, they have all the memories of early abandonment, the emotions of anxiety or depression, which are attached to abandonment, bodily sensations and thoughts that people are going to leave them.  An Early Maladaptive Schema, therefore, is the deepest level of cognition that contains memories and intense emotions when activated. 

What is the origin of early maladaptive schemas?

The three basic origins are:

1. Early childhood experiences.

2. The innate temperament of the child.

3. Cultural influences. 

It is believed that the combination of these three lead to early maladaptive schemas. 

What type of early childhood experiences lead to the acquisition of schemas?

~ The child who does not get his/her core needs met. The child needed affection, empathy and guidance but didn’t get it etc.

~ The child who is traumatised or victimised by a very domineering, abusive, or highly critical parent.

~ The child who learns primarily by internalising the parent’s voice. Every child internalises or identifies with both parents and absorbs certain characteristics of both parents, so when the child internalises the punitive punishing voice of the parent and absorbs the characteristics they become schemas.

~ The child who receives too much of a good thing. The child who is overprotected, overindulged or given an excessive degree of freedom and autonomy without any limits being set.

Therefore Early Maladaptive Schemas began with something that was done to us by our families or by other children, which damaged us in some way. We might have been abandoned, criticised, overprotected, emotionally or physically abused, excluded or deprived and, consequently, the schema becomes part of us.  Schemata are essentially valid representations of early childhood experiences, and serve as templates for processing and defining later behaviours, thoughts, feelings and relationships with others. Early maladaptive schemas include entrenched patterns of distorted thinking, disruptive emotions and dysfunctional behaviours.  These schemata become fixed when they are reinforced and/or modelled by parents.

Long after we leave the home we grew up in, we continue to create situations in which we are mistreated, ignored, put down or controlled and in which we fail to reach our desired goals.

Schemata are perpetuated throughout one’s lifetime and become activated under conditions relevant to that particular schema.

www.cognitivetherapy.me.uk/schema_therapy.htm