Going to Court tomorrow - Temporary CO

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I don't need any advice, just some "good luck"s!

My (now) DH left his uBPDbabymama 2.5 years ago. They have one kid, my SD9. He filed for custody 2 years ago. In that time we've never had a temp order (they were never married so he first had to "prove" to be the father). He's been voluntarily paying CS. We've been living in BPD chaos and it's really taken its toll (false allegations to CPS, false DV charges, SD9 being an emotional wreck and alienated against DH). Currently we have a custody evaluation being done, but BPDbm hasn't been cooperating. We expected the CE report in Jan, mediation in Feb, and final hearing to be sometime around March next year.

However... .uBPDbm filed a motion requesting $1000/month in CS (way higher than we calculated we owe, especially since we've had near 50/50 custody). So tomorrow we are going to have a hearing on her motion for CS and our motion for temp relief.

Keep your fingers crossed for us! We're asking to redistribute the 50/50 timesharing from only the weekends (every weekend) to two days during the week and every other weekend. We're asking to call the past even (DH overpaid a bit the past two years but underpaid, technically, for the first few months when uBPDbm refused to allow visitation as his punishment for moving out). And asking to order CS per the state's guidelines going forward (which will slightly reduce what we're paying her now, she's not gonna be happy about that). We're cautiously optimistic that things will turn out. Then when we have the CE report for the final hearing we can use that to (hopefully) get majority.

[Thunderstruck]

I don't need any advice, just some "good luck"s!

My (now) DH left his uBPDbabymama 2.5 years ago. They have one kid, my SD9. He filed for custody 2 years ago. In that time we've never had a temp order (they were never married so he first had to "prove" to be the father). He's been voluntarily paying CS. We've been living in BPD chaos and it's really taken its toll (false allegations to CPS, false DV charges, SD9 being an emotional wreck and alienated against DH). Currently we have a custody evaluation being done, but BPDbm hasn't been cooperating. We expected the CE report in Jan, mediation in Feb, and final hearing to be sometime around March next year.

However... .uBPDbm filed a motion requesting $1000/month in CS (way higher than we calculated we owe, especially since we've had near 50/50 custody). So tomorrow we are going to have a hearing on her motion for CS and our motion for temp relief.

Keep your fingers crossed for us! We're asking to redistribute the 50/50 timesharing from only the weekends (every weekend) to two days during the week and every other weekend. We're asking to call the past even (DH overpaid a bit the past two years but underpaid, technically, for the first few months when uBPDbm refused to allow visitation as his punishment for moving out). And asking to order CS per the state's guidelines going forward (which will slightly reduce what we're paying her now, she's not gonna be happy about that). We're cautiously optimistic that things will turn out. Then when we have the CE report for the final hearing we can use that to (hopefully) get majority.

[ForeverDad]

 

Just remember that if he is ordered to do something, then he does it.  But don't think that if he volunteers or offers to pay extra that either ex or the court or anyone else will think better of him.  There will be no reciprocity from the ex and court could care less since they don't worry about such lesser matters that don't trigger 'consequences'.

The one misbehaving will seldom get consequences... .The one behaving well will seldom get credit.

However, despite the above, he does have to present himself as the problem-solving, cooperative parent, it will be expected of him.  Eventually it will cause a subtle and gradual shift in preference to him, though exactly when is an unknown.  For some reason the squeaky wheel gets the grease and bats**t crazy ex gets an extra dose of patience/latitude from the court, it appears they allow for that level of discord, so don't expect much from the ex and just go to the next step.

[david]

In my state support only is calculated from the date of filing. It does not extend beyond that point so if uBPD filed last month you only owe for that month  and no further back. Since you already are paying (hopefully with a check or some documented form) then you should be clear.

The court may want to keep the amount payed now even if it is higher since that is what has been going on. However, it probably can be argued that you are overpaying and that the payments in the past should be used to reduce the future amount to at least the state mandate. You may want to think of reasons why the amount should be reduced to the state mandate. A new expense of some sort.

If that happens don't laugh out loud in court when uBPD goes ballistic. 

[Thunderstruck]

This is confusing, I know... .

In 2012 from when DH filed (in Oct) until the end of the year he was denied visitation. He had a grand total of 3 overnights. This means that he would owe a large sum in CS. This is a potential hazard, but the lawyer is going to push the judge to not factor that in (if DH would have gotten 50/50 like he should have then he would have overpaid in 2012).

In 2013 and 2014 he had close to 50/50 and has been overpaying by just a small amount (neither DH nor I would want to pursue getting a reimbursement from uBPDbm, not worth it).

So... .we'll see. Either way uBPDbm is going to flip. She's asking for $1000/month and our L calculated it to be somewhere near $180/month. That's slightly less than we give her now. 

[Nope]

As long as he can prove he wanted more time in 2012 and she was obstructing a judge probably isn't going to want to touch that whole thing with a ten foot poll and is most likely going to only talk about payments going forward.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

[ForeverDad]

If there were no orders in effect and they didn't have anything actively pending in court then it is very unlikely retroactive CS would be ordered.  However, from date of filing, yes it is very possible to have a retroactive order.

Some courts have held that money given outside a court order is a "gift" and not support.  But yes, court likely won't touch the past, one side wanting money, the other side claiming blocking, maybe they'd tell her she should have started a case sooner - and say the same thing to dad too.

The official stance of many courts is that you pay the ordered support even if visitation or parenting is blocked.  The recourse if blocked is not to stop paying but to return to court and (eventually) get the court to enforce the order.

I was blocked (turned out to be for 3 months) when we were separated and the emergency orders were dismissed.  That got my butt in gear and so I filed for divorce.  Still it was nearly two months totally blocked, not even phone calls got through and the police refused to help me since there were no orders.  Catch 22, they assured me that if I went to see my preschooler and she called 911 then yes they would come rushing.  I didn't want to risk arrest on more false allegations so I waited on court.  At the initial hearing the magistrate confirmed with ex that she had blocked me for 3 months then said, "I'll fix that."  He restored the prior schedule with me as alternate weekend dad and rewarded her with no consequences.  He rewarded me by ordering me to pay child support retroactive to when I filed.  So child support when I was blocked.  I walked out owning almost two months, with next to nothing in my bank account.  A couple weeks later - at the end of the month - I got a letter from CSEA stating I was now IN DEFAULT and would be reported to credit agencies if not paid in full within 30 days.  Yeah, nice understanding people, right?  (I have since gotten custody but it took me another 5 years to accomplish that.  And I paid child support for another 2.5 years after that, she never provided her income and so we imputed her income at minimum wage, resulting in a 'disparity' of income.)

[livednlearned]

I've only had experience with one judge. But I noticed when my L would talk to other Ls when we were in court that they kinda lumped judges into two categories. One category ruled more intuitively and relied on gut feeling. And the others ruled along technical and legal rationale.

Do you have a sense what kind of judge you'll have? I know it's over simplifying things, but maybe there's a grain of truth in there.

[Thunderstruck]

Here's how it went... .

Opening statements, our L stated what we wanted. uBPDbm (pro se) basically spent her opening statement denying all our claims, blaming, and finger pointing with a little bit of "How am I expected to raise a child on this slap in the face amount of child support?".

DH went on the stand. L asked him a bunch of questions, basicaly reiterating what he said in his opening statement. Then submitted documentation backing it up into evidence. No cross from uBPDbm.

uBPDbm went on the stand. She brought new evidence of income and CS calculations, etc. which she only brought one copy of. So most of her time was spent with our L frantically trying to interpret her numbers. She tried to say SD9 says... .L would object (heresay) and she'd say "Excuse me I didn't interrupt you when you were talking". The judge had to explain to her that even though she didn't like it he has the right to object and she can't claim SD9 says things (or turn in a letter that she made SD9 write) because that is heresay. So uBPDbm had no evidence for why DH shouldn't have time during the week other than he made SD9 tardy 15 times last year (he didn't) and she has "concerns" but wouldn't say what or provide evidence. uBPDbm then proposed LESS time than we are currently receiving (basically the same weekends only schedule with one weekend a month taken away). When our L went to cross he was getting frustrated with uBPDbm, he would ask her "yes/no" questions and she would launch into blah blah blah. It all kinda fell apart at this point. It was running long, the judge got frustrated. He said "I've been here all morning making sure everyone gets their day in court" and basically said he's not going to make a judgement today.

So... .we should have a decision within two weeks. But Christmas break starts next week and we don't have a schedule.

[Nope]

I would resign myself to not having a schedule by Christmas. I'm curious as to why your L didn't ask for a quick order just addressing Christmas. All things considered it sounds like it went well.

[ForeverDad]

If the court has a guideline or standard schedule for holidays for the year, perhaps L can make sure ex has a copy and try to use that until until the court order is issued.  If she even refuses to follow the county's default standard, then it is additional indication she is uncooperative and/or obstructive.

[Thunderstruck]

If the court has a guideline or standard schedule for holidays for the year, perhaps L can make sure ex has a copy and try to use that until until the court order is issued.  If she even refuses to follow the county's default standard, then it is additional indication she is uncooperative and/or obstructive.

Good suggestion. I looked it up, however, and there are multiple options. One of which is uBPDbm's current proposal and one of which is DH's proposal. So... .that doesn't help.

Oh, I should also mention that the judge is "rotating out" of Family Court and into Civil after the new year. Hopefully that pushes him to make a decision sooner rather than later.

[Thunderstruck]

The order is in! 

We get our 50/50 with us having M/T and every other weekend.

We will be paying $77 LESS in child support than we currently are voluntarily paying now. No back support.

 Christmas wasn't either of our proposals. The judge picked it. We have from this friday until Christmas morning at 9am. uBPDbm has SD9 for the remainder of break. We had Christmas morning last year so we weren't expecting it this year. (we actually end up with only 6 of 18 overnights).

Overall we're very happy with the decision. It'll give SD9 more stability in her life and I personally think it's a big step forward.

[Nope]

Awesome!

Yeah, judges try to make sure nobody leaves feeling like they completely won. But in reality this is obviously a huge win for the child. You guys didn't come out so bad off yourselves. 

[david]

Congratulations.

SD will appreciate this years from now if she doesn't already.

[PinkieV]

Congratulations!  What a great present to your SD.

[ForeverDad]

It's possible the court's schedule is for dads to get that holiday in even years and mothers get it in odd years?  Or maybe the judge wanted to be sure DH got his time first so that ex wouldn't refuse an exchange and mess up your plans at the last minute?  In any case, don't worry about it being too fair, it doesn't have to be, it isn't and it won't be.

We get our 50/50 with us having M/T and every other weekend.

This is a 2/2/5/5 schedule, quite typical for 50/50.  My son has had this schedule since he was in kindergarten, the custody evaluator said alternate weeks wouldn't be appropriate if he was under 10 years old, it would be too long between time with each parent.  (I wanted alternate weeks because it would have reduced the exchanges and the consequent encounters and potential conflict.)  He's almost 13 now and still has that during the summers.  We got a new order a year ago and my lawyer said not to push for a change from split weeks, he said then it could be viewed as me being okay with him having longer visits with his mother.

I have the second half of the week, I like it because (1) it fits my schedule better and (2) if there is homework due, usually it is later in the week and I can try to have him get it turned in.

However, even with equal time I still paid child support, ex never submitted her income and apparently the lawyers agreed to impute her income at minimum wage levels, resulting in a 'disparity' in incomes.

[FamilyLaw]

This is great news, but be prepared for a lot of drama on Mom's part. She will most likely try to insert herself into the pre-Christmas celebrations and Christmas morning.  In my experience the best thing to do is make sure you are busy this next week -- shopping, going to see the lights, going to church or performances -- all things that keep SD away from a phone and the inevitable "but you are missing out on all the fun things here."  It will preserve both your and SD's sanity.  This is a great time to start your own family's traditions.