individual sessions with PC

[momtara]

So my exH and I have both seen the new pc individually and have to meet with her together next.

I am still wondering if it will be a giant waste of time, but better than not doing anything, I guess.

We've now been officially divorced for a year.  We saw a good, aggressive PC (who triggered him a lot, which was the only downside) for the 6 months after the divorce and she resolved a lot of things.  It said in our divorce that we only see one for 6 months -- but after that ran out, we were back in court and I got ex to agree to a new one.  I am mostly seeing this one just in case exH starts getting nutty or off his meds again.  He takes our two very young children every other weekend and I get a little nervous about that.  He can sound really hostile and doesn't always tell the truth about stuff.

So we each met with the new PC individually.  I saw her for an hour and a half and tried to give her the full background on everything - the way exH tries to scare me using the children, how our former marriage counselor suggested he had a PD, how sometimes he's great but when he gets triggered by certain things (dentist appointments for the kids, things where I appear to have more control) he reacts very angrily and says no to simple decisions.

I also told her that he has to submit letters from his docs once a year saying he's getting counseling.  I told her I'd like it to be more than once a year and it should say he's going at least twice a month, like he has before.  But I don't think she'll act on that right away since she's just meeting us.

She said that from what I said, it sounds like he has a PD.  She also read the reports from our former PC.

Then exH met with her alone.  He didn't seem triggered at all afterward - actually seemed calmer - which in some ways worries me.  In other ways, it doesn't.  She may have been passive with him this time, but that doesn't always mean she'll be that way.

Next we have to meet with her together and sign a retainer, which we'll change to our liking, I suppose.  Not sure if exH will agree to some of the stuff.  These 3 sessions may end up as a complete waste of lots of money if he won't agree. 

ExH thinks we are never going to talk about his mental health issues during counseling and that our counselor is forbidden to discuss them, which is not true.  The court order only says she can't talk to his therapists.

I am wondering if she was passive just so that he will sign something, and then she can get more aggressive. 

Her standard retainer agreement says she can make binding recommendations after the sessions and that she can talk to our docs, so maybe I'll just be pretty quiet when we meet together and see what he signs.  We shall see.

[david]

Sounds like a good spot to be in. You don't have to mention what the standard agreement says and let him sign it. Once he signs it everything can move from there.

Also, once it is signed you can make the changes you think are best for the kids. In those situations I have it all written down so I do not forget any of the minor details. I make sure all the details are covered before agreeing to anything.

I've been through three evals, four counselors, one pc, and one co parent counselor (currently). Some have been good and some have been horrible. I have enough experience now to figure things out pretty quickly and know whether the person "gets it' or not. Every one of them have been very different. Some challenged ex and I. Others took a more passive approach. I now try to be prepared for either situation and go with what is in front of me. My advantage is that I can be flexible and ex can not.

I always stay focused on what I believe is best for the kids and stick to my beliefs. I am firm but willing to listen to another point of view that still addresses my concerns. If my concerns are not addressed with the other point of view I have no problem saying so. I was not like that 7 years ago. I used to think that the "professional" would see what I saw and defend me against ex. I realized that isn't what the "professionals" are there for.

I try not to trigger ex unless I can see no way to discuss what I think important and not trigger her.

If you can figure out how you take care of the kids with the things that trigger ex (you take them to the dentist/etc and contact him later if you think that would work/ you have to figure those things out) then you are finding solutions which the courts and professionals like.

My ex was seeing a T before she left. Ex told me we needed to go to marriage counseling so I went. After several meetings the T told me she could no longer see me because ex was her client. So the marriage counseling was a lie. During that time the T did tell me that she needed ex to trust her and once she thought that she would get ex to sign a consent form so the T could talk to ex's docs, etc. That is a basic part of therapy.

Learning the rules of the game helps you be a better player. If the other player is delusional or doesn't understand the rules then that gives you an advantage. Read the Art of War. It helps get you focused.

[momtara]

Thanks for taking the time to read all that, and it's all helpful.  I don't know that he'll sign the standard agreement - he's not nutty enough to sign things without reading and considering.  But if I am quiet, maybe I can let the counselor convince him of some things.  She did say to me, "I can't go against the court order."  I'd think a subsequent retainer agreement would override it, but who knows what he'll agree to.

[david]

Think of all the things you think you need and figure ways to achieve them. I know my ex well enough that I pretty much know what she will object to and why. I have a solution ready in many cases because of that. It's been 7 years now and she still hasn't learned any new ways. That makes things much easier for me.

[livednlearned]

If the PC has experience with BPD, she might be using tools that only seem passive.

I saw a training document for PCs that talked about working with the cognitive extreme of PDs so that they (pwBPD) can tolerate opposites in their thinking. So, like validation, but a bit more guided. If your PC is good, she would know how to do that with him. But each PD has its own type of cognitive extreme -- for BPD it's abandonment, for NPD it's inferiority. With my ex, he experiences both. So at first, my PC worked with his fears of abandonment, but he has really strong narcissistic traits and she had to shift to a different tactic to address that. Your ex doesn't seem to have as much narcissism, so the PC might be able to work with him.

[momtara]

Yup.  I know she knows about PD's, because I asked her that about a year ago when we were first looking for a PC, and she said that people with a PD "are very manipulative."  So she has to at least partially understand it, which is more than most.