Mastering and understanding validation

[Depression = 72% of members]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife last night.  She was telling me a story from her early childhood where she was left alone by her mother because her mother saw her own needs greater than those of her daughter.  My wife may have been only 5-6 at the time, but remembers having a feeling then of "I don't matter".  I think that was about the beginning of her BPD.  She says she has felt that way ever since then - that she doesn't matter.  I find that quite telling, and makes me re-think a few things. 

When I was first trying validation techniques that I read about here or in various other information on BPD, I had this rather mechanical approach to it as if it was rehearsed.  It was like the validation is the necessary statement in order to get her to remain calm or calm down so that my truth could be told.  I thought of it as something "additional" that needed to be added to the conversation, like adding validating statements to what I normally say is all that was needed.  "I'm sorry, that must be rough on you to have that happen," and then move on.  When not dealing with pwBPD, that may be all we need to do.  But when I heard my wife say she feels like she doesn't matter, something clicked. 

I now think that the whole conversation needs to be validating, not just a statement.  The statement means nothing.  What the pwBPD want is to be heard and feel like their opinion and existence is just as important as everyone else's.  And they need to feel it, not just hear it.  Before, when she would come to me with something distressing and negative, I would try to say a validating statement and disengage because I would fear where the conversation would lead.  Now I think a better approach is to validate and engage in a validating conversation.  Something that helps her feel like she matters.  It takes more than just a statement or two to help her feel this.  She needs my participation and careful listening.   I need to be active and not just a bystander. 

So as an example, if she comes to me complaining about a friend not meeting her needs.  My brain is screaming at me "Stay out.  Her friendships are her issue to figure out.  She did something to upset her friend, and I need to not be in the middle - I have my own issues to worry about."

In the past I would have said something like, "That's unfortunate.  I'm sorry you are having this disagreement with your friend.  Maintaining good friendships is difficult."  And then I would have listened to her rants, interjected a few more validation statements, and prayed that she would move on soon and not take it out on me.

Now I think a better route is to actually engage her by asking questions about how she feels and what she thinks she should do.  The "that's unfortunate" and generalizing type of statements are really unnecessary and can be interpreted as patronizing."  What she wants is someone to actively listen to her.  That helps her feel like she matters as a human being.  The validation statements need to be part of the whole conversation.  "I'm sorry to hear that, I thought she was a good friend.  What happened?" [tells me what happened] "Oh wow, that's rough, I wouldn't have expected that out of her.  Were you shocked to hear her say that?" [her response] "I guess she has at times come across that way to me, too.  Do you think that is her real issue, or do you think something else is bothering her and you just happened to get in the middle of it?" [her response] "unfortunately, that's the way people are sometimes, I'm sorry to hear this happened.  You don't need this added stress right now.  It's her loss if she wants to feel that way."

I am going to try this approach more.  She may angry and hostile about something and I may feel like she has caused some kind of issue that I am tired of dealing with - but if she is not being angry or mean towards me I think I owe it to her to engage and actively listen, even if I have a different viewpoint.  I really don't think she is looking for someone to agree with her, but just someone to listen and feel like is hearing what she has to say.

[maxsterling]

I had an interesting conversation with my wife last night.  She was telling me a story from her early childhood where she was left alone by her mother because her mother saw her own needs greater than those of her daughter.  My wife may have been only 5-6 at the time, but remembers having a feeling then of "I don't matter".  I think that was about the beginning of her BPD.  She says she has felt that way ever since then - that she doesn't matter.  I find that quite telling, and makes me re-think a few things. 

When I was first trying validation techniques that I read about here or in various other information on BPD, I had this rather mechanical approach to it as if it was rehearsed.  It was like the validation is the necessary statement in order to get her to remain calm or calm down so that my truth could be told.  I thought of it as something "additional" that needed to be added to the conversation, like adding validating statements to what I normally say is all that was needed.  "I'm sorry, that must be rough on you to have that happen," and then move on.  When not dealing with pwBPD, that may be all we need to do.  But when I heard my wife say she feels like she doesn't matter, something clicked. 

I now think that the whole conversation needs to be validating, not just a statement.  The statement means nothing.  What the pwBPD want is to be heard and feel like their opinion and existence is just as important as everyone else's.  And they need to feel it, not just hear it.  Before, when she would come to me with something distressing and negative, I would try to say a validating statement and disengage because I would fear where the conversation would lead.  Now I think a better approach is to validate and engage in a validating conversation.  Something that helps her feel like she matters.  It takes more than just a statement or two to help her feel this.  She needs my participation and careful listening.   I need to be active and not just a bystander. 

So as an example, if she comes to me complaining about a friend not meeting her needs.  My brain is screaming at me "Stay out.  Her friendships are her issue to figure out.  She did something to upset her friend, and I need to not be in the middle - I have my own issues to worry about."

In the past I would have said something like, "That's unfortunate.  I'm sorry you are having this disagreement with your friend.  Maintaining good friendships is difficult."  And then I would have listened to her rants, interjected a few more validation statements, and prayed that she would move on soon and not take it out on me.

Now I think a better route is to actually engage her by asking questions about how she feels and what she thinks she should do.  The "that's unfortunate" and generalizing type of statements are really unnecessary and can be interpreted as patronizing."  What she wants is someone to actively listen to her.  That helps her feel like she matters as a human being.  The validation statements need to be part of the whole conversation.  "I'm sorry to hear that, I thought she was a good friend.  What happened?" [tells me what happened] "Oh wow, that's rough, I wouldn't have expected that out of her.  Were you shocked to hear her say that?" [her response] "I guess she has at times come across that way to me, too.  Do you think that is her real issue, or do you think something else is bothering her and you just happened to get in the middle of it?" [her response] "unfortunately, that's the way people are sometimes, I'm sorry to hear this happened.  You don't need this added stress right now.  It's her loss if she wants to feel that way."

I am going to try this approach more.  She may angry and hostile about something and I may feel like she has caused some kind of issue that I am tired of dealing with - but if she is not being angry or mean towards me I think I owe it to her to engage and actively listen, even if I have a different viewpoint.  I really don't think she is looking for someone to agree with her, but just someone to listen and feel like is hearing what she has to say.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rapt Reader]

I now think that the whole conversation needs to be validating, not just a statement.  The statement means nothing.  What the pwBPD want is to be heard and feel like their opinion and existence is just as important as everyone else's.  And they need to feel it, not just hear it.  Before, when she would come to me with something distressing and negative, I would try to say a validating statement and disengage because I would fear where the conversation would lead.  Now I think a better approach is to validate and engage in a validating conversation.  Something that helps her feel like she matters.  It takes more than just a statement or two to help her feel this.  She needs my participation and careful listening.   I need to be active and not just a bystander. 

maxsterling, that is perfect 

Real validation in a nutshell. Validation needs our love, empathy, listening, compassion, kindness and engagement with our loved one.

I bet you have found her response to be warm and friendly? And happily surprised?   

[maxsterling]

I bet you have found her response to be warm and friendly? And happily surprised?   

Yes, we have had better conversations.  that helps me as much as it does her as it has cut down on *my* tension and stress.  Remember, we use the tools to help us, not to change them   As for her response being warm and friendly?  I would say warmer and friendlier, as she can still be quite hostile and testy.  I think the biggest difference is that conversations have been more focused and manageable and respectful, and we have been able to talk about touchy subjects for longer whereas before certain subjects I would avoid approaching at all.

[Grey Kitty]

   Excellent work!

I wonder if when you got to this area if you stepped into a subtle grey area. It is hard to say w/o hearing your wife's side of the conversation about what her friend did.

[her response] "unfortunately, that's the way people are sometimes, I'm sorry to hear this happened.  You don't need this added stress right now.  It's her loss if she wants to feel that way."

Don't validate the invalid. If your wife's friend is just upset because of something your wife did, then it seems to me to be your wife's loss as much as her friend's loss.

On the other side of that line... .telling your wife that she just botched up her friendship is invalidating... .if you aren't sure where to go, leaning away from this is absolutely right.

Your validation of how your wife feels is absolutely FANTASTIC.

[maxsterling]

Don't validate the invalid. If your wife's friend is just upset because of something your wife did, then it seems to me to be your wife's loss as much as her friend's loss.

My feeling here is that I am riding the middle ground.  You are right it is my wife's loss just as much.  I'm talking about the emotion of being angry and bitter - and I say the same about anyone who is angry and bitter - it's their loss for continuing that negative emotion.  In that particular example we were talking about her friend's behavior to be angry and vindictive.  I was trying to validate that it's her friend's decision to be that way, and hurts her friend most of all. 

[reluctanthusband]

I can't wait to get there.  I'm still navigating the not invalidating phase.  It has helped so much to not make it worse.  She catches me from time to time, but I catch it soo much faster now and abates the chaos quicker.