L3 Self protection question for L5,

[Targeted]

My relationship with my ex GF has been typical of what you read all over this site, lying, cheating, manipulation, all in true BPD fashion. Spending months reading here I not only learned a lot about this disorder and what I went through but I also learned a fair amount about myself, I have codependent enabling traits and I have worked a lot on that, I always want to fix things and give more of myself in all areas, so much so in this relationship there was not much left of me in the end almost 6 months ago, we went back and forth in emails until 22 days ago when I went NC, I am healing and working on myself and I have my own T that I work with in doing that and everything is going well, getting stronger I know I will not tolerate this behaviour any more because of how it affects me but even though I am detaching I know I can still be weak for her in one area that I need to shore up for myself just in case. My weakness would be if she made a re-engagement attempt on the guise of her realising a problem and wanting therapy what would be the best way to tell if there was any sincerity in that or if it was just another manipulation tool?  I know forgetting about her and moving on is the best but I admit that is still a little hard for me to do and I need to protect myself from being manipulated again.   Due to the length of our relationship and knowing it was meaningful to her I think she may try that.  Any good advice in this situation would be greatly appreciated,  thank you.

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[formflier]

 

It is always your choice to respond if she reaches out... .or to not respond. 

I'll try to write more later... .my advice is to decide what choice you want to make

[Targeted]

Thank you FormFlier,

I think if there was 100% sincerity and commitment to therapy that could affect my decision to stay away, it is a  70-30 for me right now as to what I would do if she reached out but I know I do not want to be A Band-Aid turned punchingbag again.  I do not even know that she will reach out but I think it is better that I am prepared in the event that she does. One of us has to be, I am already prepared to continue detaching and heal but I am not prepared for a curveball,

[formflier]

I think if there was 100% sincerity and commitment to therapy that could affect my decision to stay away,

OK... .what you need to clearly understand... .is that if she makes a commitment to therapy... it will be 100% sincere... .right then... .

If her feelings change... .it may affect her sincerity. 

As she gets more aware of her traits and behavior patterns... .hopefully she will have some victories... .where she can keep her commitments even after her "feeling"s change.

So... .my advice is to not base your decision on her sincerity... .because it most likely is not going to be "stable"

Does that make sense? 

Thoughts?

[Targeted]

I'm really trying to get this question right so please bear with me,  I totally believe her feelings for me are there, out of anybody in your life I have been around the longest, she keeps saying that she wants to have a committed relationship and be married, I do not think she understands that the reason she is not married is because of her, I am convinced that if I had married her in the first year when everything was good the relationship probably would have been shorter, The more I learn about this disorder The more sense it makes to me, I guess it would be more about my boundaries? IM the fixer type and I do love and care about her even still, but that does not mean I should put up with her tranpeling my boundaries, she has too many men in her Safetynet and always adds to it, I do not think she understands nobody is going to marry into that type of situation,  so I guess my idea of 100% sincerity and commitment to therapy would have to mean cutting away the safety net and letting it go so that there is no distractions on her side for what I would be committing myself to.  It would really have to be just her and I and both learning together in therapy how to deal with these issues and when there is upset she would contact the therapist or family instead of some other guy from a dating site or a new. " friend" .  I do not think that is too much to ask if I have to do what I would have to do in order to make it work.  So I guess my question would be more on the lines of getting my boundaries met would it not?  I do have a lot of patience to deal with anxiety and her temper tantrums, she actually has mentioned how well I do with that in talking her back down from them. She has thanked me for that many times, what I cannot deal with is her defence mechanism to triangulate with somebody else, there is no commitment there, to me that is breaking a commitment.  Quite some time ago I did try explaining this to her but of course everything was my fault, so she does know how I feel about that situation and could possibly just use that as a manipulation to get me back while she looks for somebody else again. The sincerity of her feelings towards me are not what I question it would be the sincerity of her realising she has a problem and wanting to fix it.  The way I am taking it from learning about this disorder is A lot of the hateful things she says and does to me is in part because she actually loves me and has feelings for me, as stupid as that sounds it seems to be true but correct me if I am wrong there? That does not mean she should be excused for them,  it means that is what needs to be corrected because being in love and having these feelings makes her do these things. I'm sorry for the long post but if she does try to reengage me and I could not be of help I would rather stay away and not be an enabler of her problem.  Kind of hard disorder to figure out is in it?  I'm trying.

[formflier]

I  So I guess my question would be more on the lines of getting my boundaries met would it not?  

Very good post... .lot to think about.  More later.

For now... .I want to leave you with a quick question. 

I don't understand why you are concerned about getting your boundaries met?  Can you explain that some? 

Maybe a rephrase... .How can you not be assured that your boundaries will be met?

[Targeted]

Thank you Formflier,

I would only be interested in getting my boundaries met in the event that this relationship meant enough to her that she wants to get the proper help for herself In order to get the relationship back, I am not patting myself on the back here and saying that I am the most special guy in the world but I am special enough to myself and like to have all bases covered, I am not expecting that her losing me is going to make her want to change but there is no harm in me preparing for it just in case! I would need to have the boundary met that I explained when it comes to other men. Here is the reason why,  she does have one friend that is a guy and he does not bother me in the least, they could talk on the phone all day and I would not care, my boundary starts when she wants to go to dinner or a movie with him without me because I find it inappropriate in a committed relationship, all of her other " friends" are guys that she either met on a dating site or hit on her by writing their phone number down on a piece of paper! I am smart enough to be able to tell the difference,  her so-called. " Friends " are nothing more then guys with sexual desires tward her and they need to be eliminated totally because of her level of impulsivity!  Her impulsivity plays a major role in her her disorder,  some traits of the disorder are more exaggerated than others in different circumstances and this is a exaggerated one for her, just like you know you are not going to hold a AA meeting at a bar, she is not going to get the proper help by feeding back attention to all these men, she will not be able to focus on herself. I mainly need this one boundary met to start off with in the event something happens not because I am overly jealous but more because it would take her focus off of getting better. And To add to that A relationship to me is about reciprocation as well as love and trust, therefore if I am going to take on A personality disorder with the true intention of making things better I feel that should be reciprocated by removing my concerns on this matter to say the least, The reason why is because of how much focus it would take off of me trying to deal with her issues with her and being able to do it in a supportive loving manner because I would have to spend too much time focusing on policing her true intentions with these " Friends "  which would Create too much stress for me to be able to focus on what I would need to do on my end as a non which is probably going to be just as much if not more work than she is going to have to do! I know I could take on the world But she does not have to add the solar system to it. 

In answer to your rephrase,  from what I have experienced in this relationship I will not be assured that my boundaries have been met if there is continued contact and interaction in the manner she has shown me so far with the people she associates with, all of her interactions and contact is a double standard as well because she has made it very clear she would not accept it from me, One fault of mine in the relationship is I accepted it because I knew she had a problem and was hoping for a better day, I guess I was trying to show love and tolerance because I had no knowledge of the disorder at the time and thought it would work not knowing that it was as enabling as Handing out vodka shots at a AA meeting,  I could not be assured that my boundaries will be met short of having all these people removed from her social media as well as her phone and change her phone number so they cannot contact her either so we could together focus on the issues at hand, part of me says that is too much to ask because it is controlling and the other part of me says what I am willing to do for her and take on that I really do not need to that's the least she could do!  In this situation do you think that is just being controlling or is it being concerned and determined for positive results? I know to her it is just going to be considered controlling and I understand why she would perceive it that way and if you explain to somebody that does not know she has this problem and this is what I want they would see it the same way, but I think when you are in it and realise the whole picture of the dynamic that is exactly what she needs,   Where am I wrong?

[waverider]

so I guess my idea of 100% sincerity and commitment to therapy would have to mean cutting away the safety net and letting it go so that there is no distractions on her side for what I would be committing myself to.  It would really have to be just her and I and both learning together in therapy how to deal with these issues and when there is upset she would contact the therapist or family instead of some other guy from a dating site or a new. " friend" .  I do not think that is too much to ask if I have to do what I would have to do in order to make it work. 

The problem is a chicken and egg one,  she needs to let go of her "safety net" of back up options to commit to anything, including therapy, but she needs therapy to understand and overcome the insecurity that is causing her to hold on to "options'.

It is the old problem with BPD and why it is hard to treat. The very condition itself makes them struggle to stay commited wholly to therapy, or anything. This why many DBT type courses need a degree of pre therapy first, otherwise they just quit as they wont let go of their previous "comfort blankets".

[formflier]

Thank you Formflier,

I would only be interested in getting my boundaries met in the event that this relationship meant enough to her that she wants to get the proper help for herself In order to get the relationship back

OK... .one thing to think through as you are considering your r/s... .is that boundaries are always 100% attainable... .because you are totally in control of boundaries.  Nobody else gets to determine a boundary for you.  If it gets crossed... .you act... .boundary holds. 

If the boundary doesn't hold... .it is not the "fault" of the other person... .look in the mirror... .that is where "fault" lays.

If what you are asking or wondering about is if the other person is going to  comply... .then you are talking about rules or "agreements" in a r/s. 

[Targeted]

Thank you so much for your input waverider, you kind of reassured my boundaries are not ridiculous!  In my situation whether or not I can help or just heal on my end is still being determined, just from a position of detaching, I have given up hope for the relationship but would like to know what to do if for some reason she found some.  Even though she ran me through a meatgrinder I know why,  I have sympathy for her, she is a human being, but so am I.  Thank you for helping to confirm my boundaries are not out of line.

[Targeted]

thank you Formflier!

I did admit to fault in my last post about my fault in the relationship with accepting her behavior and hoping it gets better understanding she has a problem,  looking in the mirror I see where my fault was, but when you are a non without the knowledge I have now the right thing to do just seems to be to forgive,  whoever thought that you had to be able to speak a different language and speak it backwards and understand it sideways to have a relationship?  not to mention be able to reverse that and interpret it when being spoken to?  I accept my failure in this relationship but I do not feel bad about it because it is not normal,  I believe there is a very very very small percentage of people that would be able and willing to deal with this in a relationship and I know I am one of them, I have dealt with my codependent traits of always putting somebody else first and even though I am NOT perfect in that area I understand what I need to do. this is totally a codependent enabling BPD relationship and the only dynamic that has changed is the co dependent being me is the only one that realizes something has to change, I am NOT in the vindictive I have been totally abused mode but I do vent once in awhile,  you are right that the boundaries not holding and being trampled on is my fault,  there is no way that I could have asked you whether or not she will ever comply because you do not know her,  I am really just hoping somebody out there knows what it looks like when they are ready to comply?  I want to put all my effort in taking on the world with her but I am too bruised to take another punch,

[waverider]

 

If the boundary doesn't hold... .it is not the "fault" of the other person... .look in the mirror... .that is where "fault" lays.

 

This is a huge point. It is hard to admit. It is hard to accept that it is also a difficult thing to overcome and not beat yourself up for failing. We can get better at it, but few can be 100% successful even with all the knowledge.

Once it becomes the foundation stone in your thinking, it also becomes a major turning point to reestablishing your rights and self respect.

Without knowledge of BPD and coping tools few can achieve it, lack of strong boundaries is where most come unstuck.

This is not just a BPD thing, they are just very good at exploiting it, use it everywhere and your life will improve

[Targeted]

Thank you waverider,

I totally accept my fault in this relationship about the lack of enforcing my boundaries, my relationship boundaries are pretty basic and I believe in a normal relationship they would not even need to be spoken about or enforced because they should be just understood as keys to a healthy relationship, specially the big ones such as cheating and how you conduct yourself with and around members of the opposite sex, we spoke about these things before and in the beginning of the relationship and she was on the same page, as a matter of fact she magnified these and mirrored them back to me which gave me more assurance I had something real here, I had no idea that I was just being mirrored by someone who magnifies their thoughts and feelings at the time because honestly I did not even know these disorders existed outside of hearing the word Narcissist in the movies and knowing that meant someone who was all about themselves and very mean, so I guess being naive is my fault as well as forgiving for boundary breaking instead of enforcing my boundaries. I did have them I just never enforced them.  I do not choose to beat myself up over it because it does no good and does not fix anything for anybody including myself, I am here to share what I do now now and continue to learn, right now I am not trying to win her back or try to fix her, I just want all the knowledge that I can get so I can be helpful to the situation if she tries to reengage me for a relationship which I think she may because we are undoubtedly special to one another, if my helping her means I need to stay away and let her figure it out on Her own then that's what I will do!  It would be sad to hear That she just wants to continue her destructive cycle but that would not be my fault because it would be her choice, But if my helping her should eventually come to holding her hand and giving her support in therapy and that becomes her choice instead?  I would like to know how to do that to the best of my ability,  I have already resigned to the fact that going back to trying to just Love a untreated pwBPD Will never work and neither will just regular couples counselling, we already tried that, i'm sure you know what happened,  BPD Ruled the session and everything was my fault.  Right now I only have one boundary for her, this boundary will never be broken. The boundary is that I do not wish to have any contact with her at all unless she is serious about getting better in therapy! 

What is for the first time in her life she adheres to a boundary and that is that one?

[Grey Kitty]

Is your ex getting therapy a hypothetical situation, or is she actually doing it now?

[guy4caligirl]

Targeted , I am in the same position as you are , I had no idea how this illness works, after 4 months of learning keeping low contact , I came to realize that the best way to get over or getting another chance at it , is to feed my knowledge as much as I can to be prepared for any reconciliation in the future , I am in contact with her ,looks to me that she has realized that I am truthful with her ,she might have discovered that triangeling from a long distance isn't the same with male friends from her home city , where she is right now it changes when she is in person with them, they did not know what issues she has when talking to them from a long distance , now in person I have a feeling she had come to term that those friends won't be there for her at " 3 am" like she always said she is broke no one seems to help her . They are busy with their own life . But to say she does not know that triangeling was a major cause of the B/U, until then we will see ! At this time I don't really know yet .

Triangeling is dangerous, especially when most of the conversation is painting you black , have you ever notice after she get's off the phone after hours and when trying to reengage with you, looking kind of distorted thinking

taking her a little while to adjust talking to you ?

I think this outside sources in a non R/S puts a heavy birding on the RS imagine what kind of destruction that causes in a R/S with BPD ?

[Targeted]

Her getting therapy is a wish,  it's not happening!  But it's the only way something good could happen!  I refuse to ever triangulate again unless it's with a therapist. And a therapist only,  my weak point was enforcing boundries.  It's my strong point now six months later,   Thank you all.

[Targeted]

Part of the problem is that she is very good looking and lots of guys want to get to know her, I think that is normal but when you are in a committed relationship it is not normal to be giving out your phone number to these people and having conversations with them, maybe I have it wrong but entertaining conversation and having them all over your social media when at least one party has interest is very damaging to a committed relationship, I believe that even if there is only interest on the other side then The conversations will only turn to getting rid of me when she vents about her problems to these people instead of fixing our issue,  it is definitely triangulating to me and I do not think my mind will change on that.  I could accept having a friend or two of the opposite sex if the interactions were appropriate for being in a committed relationship but not having a ocean full of men as a safety net.  That's probably why she has never had a long-term relationship.

[waverider]

Part of the problem is that she is very good looking and lots of guys want to get to know her, I think that is normal but when you are in a committed relationship it is not normal to be giving out your phone number to these people and having conversations with them, maybe I have it wrong but entertaining conversation and having them all over your social media when at least one party has interest is very damaging to a committed relationship, I believe that even if there is only interest on the other side then The conversations will only turn to getting rid of me when she vents about her problems to these people instead of fixing our issue,  it is definitely triangulating to me and I do not think my mind will change on that.  I could accept having a friend or two of the opposite sex if the interactions were appropriate for being in a committed relationship but not having a ocean full of men as a safety net.  That's probably why she has never had a long-term relationship.

Bottom line is that this is the reality, you are not likely to change it. So will your values and boundaries allow that. Some choices are hard, but ultimately we have to make them, not just drag out the same old same old

[formflier]

 

And... .once you have clarified your values and your choices.  Have those been clearly communicated to you partner to allow them to make a choice... .if they so choose.

Be prepared for the "non-choice"... .you can't force a definitive choice to be made on their part.  I do believe you should clearly communicate your values and the appropriate time and in the appropriate way.

BPD Family would be an excellent resource to help you figure out what is the most appropriate time and the most appropriate way.

[Targeted]

I have mentioned my concerns on this during the relationship, my concerns were met with every excuse in the book, we are not married, we not together often enough and you leave me alone, I cant be alone, and so on!  I think it is hard to put together a relationship where there are children involved on both sides and it takes time, she just wants to be married right away. I tried explaining to her that I do love her enough to marry her but just getting married right away is a bad idea because it is a hasty decision and we should have other things figured out first such as a plan for all the children to get to school where they go in different towns and other normal things that need to be ironed out before merging two families, I explain to her how serious marriage is to me and we will get there what it is going to be done correctly, she got married right away her last two marriages football failed within a year and I do not want to fail, I told her not to worry because she has me and I am not going anywhere but she never allowed us to focus on what we needed to do because I was too busy constantly trying to cut away her safety net of men, maybe that's just the way it is today and it's me but if that's the way relationships go today then I don't want one, at the very end she wanted me to come up with the kids and I did not get home from work to my children until 7 PM and they would still have to get ready and I would have to get cleaned up after work and it was a holiday weekend so with traffic it would have ben about a one and a half to two hour drive with traffic, I told her me and the kids are going to go to bed because we will not get up there till very late anyways and I will see you first thing in the morning,  she responded with, Fine i'm going out with " guys name "  so don't bother,  I could not take any more after that and never went back, months of arguing in emails followed until December 1 when I stopped responding and just told her I hope the new guy works out and he likes men as much as you do, probably the wrong thing to say but I was frustrated.  She has emailed a couple of times since December 1 that I am not responded to but she does know that I want her to get help for herself, I had to chase this relationship the whole time and I do not feel I should be the one that has to reach out right now, I am remaining NC, I am not going to respond to a stupid email that just says Merry Christmas followed by a condescending remark, she may get a response out of me if she contacted me somehow with sincerity, Reading a lot of threads here I see there is A good majority that try to reconnect, I really do care about this person and it is painful for me to stay in NC but it's better than playing the BPD bickering games,  if she did reach out at some point that will cause a response from me I know what is not going to be by a stupid childish game, by sincerity I mean like I'm sure a lot have heard, I miss you, I love you, I want to try again, the only problem is at this point I would only take that at face value and deeply question the sincerity. Bottom line is that if a window opens for me to respond and steer her towards getting help I do not know at that window looks like or how to effectively communicate it without it just being turnaround on me because it is such a delicate subject.  The when, the if I should, the how, the will she ever even reach out are all in question here, My intention of wanting her to get help and not wanting to be a part of the problem any more is not.

[formflier]

Good thorough responses... .I appreciate the time you have put into them.  Please realize when I'm writing back that the responses are for you... .and they also are for everyone else reading... .  This post may help them move forward or otherwise solve a problem they have been having in their relationship.

I have mentioned my concerns

When dealing with pwBPD traits... ."mentioning" things is usually not a good strategy. 

Better strategy is to use validation and other tools to "calm" the overall r/s.  Then... .when the pwBPD is having a good day... .and can focus on a conversation... .clearly state your values... .or clearly state the "issue" in a positive way.   Positive way means you say... ."I would like to do this... ."  a negative way is a usual BPD trait "tactic"... .don't do this... .don't do that... .and you rarely get to hear them say what they want you do to.

explaining to her that I do love her enough to marry her

Any time you feel like you need to "explain" someting to a pwBPD traits... .think through if JADE applies.  Sometimes you have to explain things... .much better to clearly state your values... .and clearly state the choice you want to make.  If after explaining... .stating... .whatever... .they want to "debate" your values.  I recommend not doing that.  That is one step away from an argument... .and dysregulation.

I was too busy constantly trying to cut away her safety net of men, maybe that's just the way it is today and it's me but if that's the way relationships go today then I don't want one,

Sounds like a clear choice of values from you... .nice work!

I am remaining NC, I am not going to respond to a stupid email that just says Merry Christmas followed by a condescending remark, she may get a response out of me if she contacted me somehow with sincerity, Reading a lot of threads here I see there is A good majority that try to reconnect, I really do care about this person and it is painful for me to stay in NC but it's better than playing the BPD bickering games,  i

IMO... .good analysis of the situation.

[Targeted]

Ok, did I jade here?  I am remembering One of our conversations on the subject and it kind of went like this,   She was concerned That I was in this relationship with out the intention of going long term and eventually getting married, I assured her that I loved her and want to be with her for the rest of my life but she makes me uncomfortable with her interactions with other men and I would like to keep working on this relationship but because other men have constantly been a topic of argument at least every 1-3 months I would need to see some time go by without this being a issue before I could be comfortable enough to take the next step,  it is okay if you tell me that I did JADE there but I really do not know any other way in order to get my point across,  how could you possibly tell somebody this without jading?  What could I have said differently?

[Targeted]

Hypothetically speaking,  if she did reach out to me in such a way someday that I feel she deserves a response? because you have to speak so unnaturally different to her, in order to be effective, what would be the best way to convey to her,  ( I will just say it bluntly here ).  What would be the best way to tell her I think there is help she can benefit from for emotional issues and I would be willing to go through that with her and emotionally support her and stay by her side but I at least need all these men gone!  I know it sounds controlling trying to tell somebody who they can and cannot interact with but anybody else on the outside looking in I believe Who would want a normal loving relationship with a woman would not be able to accept this either.  Oddly enough it makes me second-guess whether my values on this matter are too controlling or just healthy!  But I do know how being in a relationship with all of that going on makes me feel, it does not make me feel happy and healthy.

[Grey Kitty]

I think you are looking at a possible reconciliation backwards from anything I could imagine working well.

You are putting her getting help / changing herself first.

You are putting getting back together with her as she is second (or perhaps off the table).

You are talking as if you want to chase after her, convince her to change, and get back together.



Try to accept that she is who she is, and does flirt with other guys, and seek their attention, at a minimum, possibly getting involved with them too.

Think about being involved with her as she is, not as you hope she might be someday.

[formflier]

Ok, did I jade here?  I am remembering One of our conversations on the subject and it kind of went like this,   She was concerned That I was in this relationship with out the intention of going long term and eventually getting married, I assured her that I loved her and want to be with her for the rest of my life but she makes me uncomfortable with her interactions with other men and I would like to keep working on this relationship but because other men have constantly been a topic of argument at least every 1-3 months I would need to see some time go by without this being a issue before I could be comfortable enough to take the next step,  it is okay if you tell me that I did JADE there but I really do not know any other way in order to get my point across,  how could you possibly tell somebody this without jading?  What could I have said differently?

Good question... .I think what you were really asking for was several months of "emotional stability" in the r/s.  Is that correct.

To avoid "jadeing"... .somtimes it is better to not explain "the exact thing"... .but take a step back and express your values to the other person... .ask for them to explain their values back.  Again... .don't try to tie the to that "exact thing".  That part comes later.

What you may find is that both of your value systems are quite different... .and if a mutual agreement can't be found on how to move forward with different value systems... .well... .some decisions should most likely be made.

I would challenge you to think about the value system you were trying to express why saying you needed a few months without argument... .

See how you can write that out here... .

[formflier]

Hypothetically speaking,  if she did reach out to me in such a way someday that I feel she deserves a response? because you have to speak so unnaturally different to her, in order to be effective, what would be the best way to convey to her,  ( I will just say it bluntly here ).  What would be the best way to tell her I think there is help she can benefit from for emotional issues and I would be willing to go through that with her and emotionally support her and stay by her side but I at least need all these men gone!  I know it sounds controlling trying to tell somebody who they can and cannot interact with but anybody else on the outside looking in I believe Who would want a normal loving relationship with a woman would not be able to accept this either.  Oddly enough it makes me second-guess whether my values on this matter are too controlling or just healthy!  But I do know how being in a relationship with all of that going on makes me feel, it does not make me feel happy and healthy.

To directly answer the question... .the best way to say that to her is as clearly and directly as possible.

I would like to be with you... .but only if there are no other men.  (this assumes this accurately portrays your situation... your value).

The key is that you feel that you have accurately and honestly portrayed "your side"... your values... .you have put the ball in her court... .and now the issue is out of your control. 

She may not respond... .(you have your answer)... .she may respond... .at which point we can all discuss it here... .and see what the next move should be to help you live out your values and see if they are compatible with what she is offering.

How does this sound?

[Targeted]

Thank You for your reply Grey Kitty,

Just to clarify, I do not want to chase after her and convince her to change. I have a feeling she will try to reengage me at some point and I definitely do not except the flirting behaviour and being in involved with other men, basically no! I do not except her The way she is in this regard at all. If she never reaches out to me I will never have to deal with this and I'll be fine with that, but I know myself and I have a weak spot for her and should she try in and reengage I do not want to settle for a recycle! I would rather be alone! She cries that she wants to be married and have a normal relationship but because of her illness she does everything to prevent that. Maybe there is some guy out there for her that does not mind being one out of many but is it not me. I feel like I have basically two options here should she tried to reengage me, please keep in mind I am not looking for it, I could either take the stance that she is no good and a flirting cheater and discard her should she make a effort to speak to me again or I can take the stance that this is someone I care about very much that has a serious problem and at least try to lead the horse to the water, whatever would happen after that if the horse decided to drink the water does not even need thought at this moment, I am not trying to win her back, just trying to figure out what to do to be helpful to both parties if she should try to come back,  just being discarded is hurtful, I know because it happened to me, I do not like to treat people that way, if she tried to reengage me again for some reason I would only like to find something helpful to say, even though she has hurt me very deeply she is still a human being with a problem.

[Targeted]

Thank you Formflier,

as clearly and directly as possible!  But still did not mention BPD or anything like that right? Maybe just call them emotional issues that need work?  Anyways I thank you very much for responding everyone, I will come back to this thread if she ever tries to reengage!

Thank you all once again so very much.

[formflier]

Thank you Formflier,

as clearly and directly as possible! 

But still did not mention BPD or anything like that right? Maybe just call them emotional issues that need work?  

I can't think of a reason to mention BPD at this (notional) point of communicating about resuming a r/s.

Not sure I can think of a reason to mention emotional issues either?  What benefit would you see to bringing any of that up?

[Grey Kitty]

Targeted, why does it matter if you reengage with her because you chase her or because she chases  you?

You are still resuming a romantic relationship with her... .or not.

If you cannot handle a romantic relationship with someone as flirtatious and needing of male attention as she is, that's the same, either way.

I could either take the stance that she is no good and a flirting cheater and discard her should she make a effort to speak to me again or I can take the stance that this is someone I care about very much that has a serious problem... .

I don't like framing your choice that way. They are both involve a judgement of who she is and what sort of character she has.

Instead I'd look at her behavior, and what it does to you.

Can YOU live with a girlfriend whose behavior is to flirt with other guys?

Can YOU live with a girlfriend whose behavior is to threaten to cheat with other guys?

Can YOU live with a girlfriend whose behavior is to cheat with other guys?

How much will it cost YOU to put up with that behavior? My tolerance level may be different than yours. How much it bugs me may be different than you too.

Why she does it or what drives her to do it won't have much impact on how you feel when she does it.