"All you do is criticize"

[JohnLove]

Let me try to explain my understanding, for what it's worth -- to the best of my ability.

When you think of someone with BPD, you are thinking about someone whose emotional development was stunted, generally pretty early in life -- often as the result of some kind of childhood trauma, generally connected to abuse or neglect from caretakers. Research seems to show that there's also a physiological component -- their brains don't function the way typical brains function. So, you have that stuff going on.

When a child is traumatized, they aren't equipped to deal with it. They are still too young to have developed coping strategies, including self-soothing. Infants and young children cry when they are in pain, when they need something, when they are frightened, when they want something -- it is their call to be rescued. This call is usually answered by a caring parent or some other caretaker.

When the call for rescue is never answered, or is answered with abuse, these children will be traumatized. If they are traumatized often enough, they will develop some kind of coping mechanism -- it is part of their innate human will to survive. From what I can tell, children who are neglected or abused often use their imaginations to escape their crisis-ridden environment. If they do this long enough, that alternate reality becomes the norm for them. Once that happens, I think it’s tough to come back to “regular” reality – because that would require them to lower their defenses and let reality back in and, remember, their experience has been that reality is frightening, possibly painful or even  dangerous. Even for people with normally functioning brains, the prospect of choosing to endanger one’s self is intimidating. Evolution has wired us to avoid danger and preserve our life.

When you feel like you're running out of compassion, remember this: Everyone is doing exactly what they think they have to do to survive. Their approach may not make sense to you. It may be self-destructive. It may hurt others. It may not be right, but that is what they are doing. You don't have to stick around for it.

I had a strong awareness of my ex’s boundary issues. So much of it revolved around her weak notion of self. She told me a few times that she only loved two people in her life – me and her daughter. Everyone else, she said, felt like a coincidental connection. Including her parents and her sibling. She claimed that she didn’t have a single friend who she could honestly say that she loved. The first time she shared this with me, I felt so sorry for her. It’s got to be a heartbreakingly lonely way to go through life.

Lots has been written on these boards about how prevalent projection is for pwBPD – particularly their use of mirroring. I’m not a mental health professional – everything I write here comes from my own reading in an effort to better understand my ex’s behaviors, and my own personal experiences being in a relationship with someone who often displayed behaviors typical of a pwBPD. To my knowledge, my ex never received a formal Dx of BPD – if she did, she didn’t share it with me. I know she was wary of it, and she was a compulsive researcher herself. So, if a therapist (she’d been in and out of counseling for much of her life) had implied that she might have this, I’m certain that she obsessively researched it to learn all she could about it. She is a very intelligent woman. I loved what her brain did. When she was happy, she was easily the most pleasant, fun person I’ve ever had the opportunity to spend time with. She had a truly lovable, playful, delightful side. But any degree of separation between us – be it physical or time – triggered what felt very much like abandonment issues, and she made trying to be happy while apart from her well-nigh impossible. Like clinginess on steroids. And when in that frame of mind, she was incapable of accepting that the reason we weren’t together was simply a function of each of our lives – we’re both adults, working, single parents – not kids, but mature adults who already had established lives prior to meeting each other. To her, it could only be one thing – I chose not to be with her. And that regularly led to suspicion that I must be interested in other women – or why wouldn’t I choose to be with her? Any man would.

Part of this intense separation anxiety I think was connected to her inability to see herself as being separate from either me or her daughter. We were the only people she loved, according to her. Our r-ship was romantic and intimate – you hear the phrase “we’re connected” – I think to her, it was close to literal. She truly seemed incapable of functioning happily when we were apart. She needed continuous reassurance that I was thinking about her, wanting to be with her, planning our next meeting, texting her, calling her, emailing her – it was completely overwhelming. What I imagine engulfment must feel like to someone with BPD.

I think this also explained why she couldn’t effectively discipline her D8. There was no emotional separation from her daughter -- and she wanted it that way. Perhaps she was overcompensating, consciously or subconsciously, for the closeness that she never had with her own mother. It wasn’t that she didn’t want to discipline her (to the degree that any parent wants to discipline their child) – I really think that she actually felt her daughter’s discomfort in those moments as if it were her own. And, as an abandoned child, when she felt those familiar negative feelings, she immediately retreated – out of a deep fear that she would traumatize her daughter as she was traumatized. There wasn’t a single time that she disciplined her daughter that she didn’t almost immediately become anxious about, afraid that her stern instruction to put her pajamas on had caused some kind of permanent emotional damage. I’m honestly not exaggerating. It was touching and sad to see. (She told a story once about how once she’d picked her daughter up from pre-school after working all day. She’d had a stressful day and was tired and hungry and just wanted to go home. Her daughter wanted to stop and get ice cream, and my ex told her it just wasn’t a good night for it. Her daughter cried, but my ex skipped the ice cream. Now years later, whenever she’d tell this story she’d cry. She expressed huge guilt over it, and felt like it was truly a low point for her as a mother.)

The point there is that, because of her own unresolved childhood trauma, and the effects of BPD (if that’s indeed what she suffered from), and her inability to separate her identity from that of her daughter, her processing function clearly wasn’t working. There’s not a parent alive who doesn’t have regrets – I can talk about hundreds of things I wish I could go back and do differently when I raised my son. But I don’t think telling him he couldn’t have ice cream 10 years ago had any lasting negative effect on his psyche.

All to say, I think they struggle with boundaries and rules because they have none of their own. When they attach to you, they surrender their individuality. And I think much of the conflict we experience with them stems from their need for us to do the same. We don’t because it’s not possible, first of all, but also because we have normally functioning brains, and we know that it’s not healthy to “lose” ourselves completely. That’s my theory, anyway.

Thanks so much for posting this eyvindr. It has greatly helped my understanding of my own situation. 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lunira]

This thread is very similar to the "You are so controlling thread." What is it about having rules and boundaries that makes them so uncomfortable?

Normally, I wouldn't point this out, but... .

Maybe a grown man taking issue with being criticized for how he uses a toaster is his attempt at drawing a boundary on you?

Maybe you blowing the infinitesimally small chance that he would suffer any serious damage (let alone death) even if he did get a second or two's worth of jolt from house current completely and totally out of proportion is evidence of your own black and white thinking? 

Why do you feel that he has to allow his choices to be determined by your feelings, in order to validate your feelings?

[Cat Familiar]

Normally, I wouldn't point this out, but... .

Maybe a grown man taking issue with being criticized for how he uses a toaster is his attempt at drawing a boundary on you?

Maybe you blowing the infinitesimally small chance that he would suffer any serious damage (let alone death) even if he did get a second or two's worth of jolt from house current completely and totally out of proportion is evidence of your own black and white thinking?  

Why do you feel that he has to allow his choices to be determined by your feelings, in order to validate your feelings?

You are absolutely right. If I were in his shoes (with his way of thinking--and there's a bit of NPD along with the BPD), I would not want to be criticized for my toaster methods.

Yes, I'm "blowing the infinitesimally small chance" that he could get hurt out of proportion.

Why I feel the need to control him--there's two reasons that both involve protocol: 1. as the child of an electrician, I learned early that there are things you never do

2. having trained in emergency medicine, you don't needlessly allow yourself or others to put themselves in dangerous situations that are avoidable

The third reason is my OCD. I can let slide (though it still bugs me) the times he lets his wet laundry sit molding in the washing machine for a couple of days. But there are some things that are black and white for me--a line in the sand, no compromise, NFW. This is one of them.

We didn't have the proper tool--although chopsticks worked fine for me for years. Now we have wooden toaster tongs. Problem solved.

I put up with his personality disorder. I have a personality disorder too. I'm willing to look at mine and let go of most things. Not this one. He's got to deal with it.

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, I'm "blowing the infinitesimally small chance" that he could get hurt out of proportion.

Why I feel the need to control him--there's two reasons that both involve protocol: 1. as the child of an electrician, I learned early that there are things you never do

2. having trained in emergency medicine, you don't needlessly allow yourself or others to put themselves in dangerous situations that are avoidable

Cat, I'd suggest that you accept your motivations as good motivations. Because they are. Both are very valid, completely true, worthwhile, all good. Excellent REASONS for you to act.

Examine the next conclusion you jumped to from those REASONS

Your actions were as if you could change your H's behavior in this regard by nagging him, or treating him like a child. Surprise, Surprise, it didn't turn out very well!

Yes the reasons are important. They matter to you. That means that they are worth doing it the hard way, the right way.

That's the lesson for you--try not to get swept up in your fears and habits... .stop and think, and decide what you can do that will work better. When you found the toaster with the metal knife next to it, you had time to think about what you would say and what you would do.

I think buying the wooden tongs was a great solution. It would have worked better without the confrontation.

What communication tools would you use next time?

[Cat Familiar]

Cat, I'd suggest that you accept your motivations as good motivations. Because they are. Both are very valid, completely true, worthwhile, all good. Excellent REASONS for you to act.

Examine the next conclusion you jumped to from those REASONS

Your actions were as if you could change your H's behavior in this regard by nagging him, or treating him like a child. Surprise, Surprise, it didn't turn out very well!

Yes the reasons are important. They matter to you. That means that they are worth doing it the hard way, the right way.

That's the lesson for you--try not to get swept up in your fears and habits... .stop and think, and decide what you can do that will work better. When you found the toaster with the metal knife next to it, you had time to think about what you would say and what you would do.

I think buying the wooden tongs was a great solution. It would have worked better without the confrontation.

What communication tools would you use next time?

The difficult piece in the beginning of this interaction was this:

I saw the metal tongs sitting next to the toaster.

I probably blanched with fear as I asked, ":)id you use the tongs in the toaster?"

That was all I said at first and just the horror on my face, along with the question, caused the initial emotional explosion in him.

Where I went wrong was trying to justify and explain my response. (I'm learning that he's ultra sensitive to JADEing and I've gotten pretty good at catching myself doing that.) But with this incident, I was in the middle of an extreme fear reaction, so I certainly wasn't thinking clearly.

I guess next time I'm caught in such a powerful emotional response myself (which is exceedingly rare because I'm such a rational thinker, rather than a feeler), I'll just take a deep breath and try not to say anything until I can think through my reply.

[Grey Kitty]

I guess next time I'm caught in such a powerful emotional response myself (which is exceedingly rare because I'm such a rational thinker, rather than a feeler), I'll just take a deep breath and try not to say anything until I can think through my reply.

YES! There are times when nothing coming out of my mouth will do anything good. Knowing myself and knowing that if I want a good result, I need to wait until I'm ready to do my part to get it.

Also remember--if you see him by the toaster, with metal tongs in his hands, bread lost inside it, there is immediate urgency there, and speaking in that moment is a different situation.

When you saw the tongs on the counter, his breakfast was done--he wasn't likely to operate the toaster until tomorrow morning, so the need to say something immediate wasn't rational.

The immediate need to be dealt with at that time was your feeling of fear/anxiety. (And invalidating your husband proved not to be a productive way of coping with your feelings.)

Yes, I'm very aware that this is hard work to process, and 1000% harder to get right at the moment when you are gripped by that feeling! Be patient and gentle with yourself over it. 

[eyvindr]

I was visiting my mom (doesn't have BPD, btw -- just an example) recently. After dinner, she offered tea, and I noticed that she was boiling the water in a sauce pan, instead of using a tea kettle. I asked her where her kettle was, and she said she'd used it recently, but walked away from it and got caught up in doing something else. She has impaired hearing, so hadn't heard the whistle -- she caught the pot before it started to melt, but it was too damaged to keep using.

I plan to buy her a new electrical teapot -- they boil water faster, and if you do happen to forget that you have water on, they just turn off.

All to say, if I were you, I'd buy a new toaster with a design that eliminates the need to fish out the toast.

[Cat Familiar]

I was visiting my mom (doesn't have BPD, btw -- just an example) recently. After dinner, she offered tea, and I noticed that she was boiling the water in a sauce pan, instead of using a tea kettle. I asked her where her kettle was, and she said she'd used it recently, but walked away from it and got caught up in doing something else. She has impaired hearing, so hadn't heard the whistle -- she caught the pot before it started to melt, but it was too damaged to keep using.

I plan to buy her a new electrical teapot -- they boil water faster, and if you do happen to forget that you have water on, they just turn off.

All to say, if I were you, I'd buy a new toaster with a design that eliminates the need to fish out the toast.

Yep, my mom almost started a fire by leaving the teapot on the stove. It melted and started burning the plastic handle. Fortunately she noticed just as the upper cabinet was starting to get hot. Good idea about the electric teapot.

It's my darn homemade bread that sometimes doesn't rise enough when I bake it so that it barely emerges from the toaster. He's fine with using the toaster tongs now, so I'm relieved.

I've been very aware of not JADEing lately, so I haven't heard the "all you do is criticize" sentence recently. 

[eyvindr]

Good to hear, Cat -- that takes genuine commitment.

I've been very aware of not JADEing lately, so I haven't heard the "all you do is criticize" sentence recently. 

That's got to feel better, right?

It's my darn homemade bread that sometimes doesn't rise enough when I bake it so that it barely emerges from the toaster. He's fine with using the toaster tongs now, so I'm relieved.

Make bigger loaves! 

[Cat Familiar]

Good to hear, Cat -- that takes genuine commitment.

I've been very aware of not JADEing lately, so I haven't heard the "all you do is criticize" sentence recently. 

That's got to feel better, right?

It's my darn homemade bread that sometimes doesn't rise enough when I bake it so that it barely emerges from the toaster. He's fine with using the toaster tongs now, so I'm relieved.

Make bigger loaves! 

Learning the tools has made a huge difference, and I'm just a beginner at this.

After I cooked dinner last night, I was cleaning up and my husband brought over his plate. I thought he was done, but instead, he took a third helping of a potato dish that I had made two days ago--which he didn't like previously. I told him that I was saving the food scraps for the goats in a plastic bag and he got angry and said that he doesn't waste food.

He had said nothing about the salmon and broccoli I had prepared and now he was bent out of shape for me pointing out the bag for the goats.

I told him, "It would be nice if you cut me some slack when I make a mistake."

He said, "And you could cut me some slack."

I looked him in the eye and said, "I do." Then I walked out the door.

He came into the laundry room several minutes later as I was folding clothes and said in a meek voice, "Thanks for dinner."

Progress!

[hergestridge]

Cat, I'd suggest that you accept your motivations as good motivations. Because they are. Both are very valid, completely true, worthwhile, all good. Excellent REASONS for you to act.

Examine the next conclusion you jumped to from those REASONS

Your actions were as if you could change your H's behavior in this regard by nagging him, or treating him like a child. Surprise, Surprise, it didn't turn out very well!

Yes the reasons are important. They matter to you. That means that they are worth doing it the hard way, the right way.

That's the lesson for you--try not to get swept up in your fears and habits... .stop and think, and decide what you can do that will work better. When you found the toaster with the metal knife next to it, you had time to think about what you would say and what you would do.

I think buying the wooden tongs was a great solution. It would have worked better without the confrontation.

What communication tools would you use next time?

The difficult piece in the beginning of this interaction was this:

I saw the metal tongs sitting next to the toaster.

I probably blanched with fear as I asked, ":)id you use the tongs in the toaster?"

That was all I said at first and just the horror on my face, along with the question, caused the initial emotional explosion in him.

Technically, one might wonder why you're asking. He did not get killed this time. Why, really did you need you need to know if he *had* used the tongs in the toaster? I think you will find the key to his reaction there.

[Cat Familiar]

Technically, one might wonder why you're asking. He did not get killed this time. Why, really did you need you need to know if he *had* used the tongs in the toaster? I think you will find the key to his reaction there.

It makes perfect sense why my response upset him. I wasn't in control of my emotional reaction at the time I asked. In a perfect world, I would have been, but it didn't happen. I'm pretty good at being in control about 95% of the time--being a thinker, rather than a feeler, but I was way into "feeling" and it was one of those panicky, stomach-turning feelings.

Like I said to my therapist, I put up with his personality disorder. He needs to put up with mine. (OCD)

[hergestridge]

Technically, one might wonder why you're asking. He did not get killed this time. Why, really did you need you need to know if he *had* used the tongs in the toaster? I think you will find the key to his reaction there.

It makes perfect sense why my response upset him. I wasn't in control of my emotional reaction at the time I asked. In a perfect world, I would have been, but it didn't happen. I'm pretty good at being in control about 95% of the time--being a thinker, rather than a feeler, but I was way into "feeling" and it was one of those panicky, stomach-turning feelings.

Like I said to my therapist, I put up with his personality disorder. He needs to put up with mine. (OCD)

No, what I'm saying is that you were really not trying to prevent him from putting the tongs in the toaster. He had already done that. You needed to know because you were going to tell him off and give him another lesson, that was the genesis of that emotional reaction wasn' it?

There is the problem and the reason to the reaction.

I am not super up do date about OCD, but is the telling him off and giving lessons also part of the OCD? I'm not so sure.

[Cat Familiar]

No, what I'm saying is that you were really not trying to prevent him from putting the tongs in the toaster. He had already done that. You needed to know because you were going to tell him off and give him another lesson, that was the genesis of that emotional reaction wasn' it?

There is the problem and the reason to the reaction.

I am not super up do date about OCD, but is the telling him off and giving lessons also part of the OCD? I'm not so sure.

No, I wasn't going to "tell him off" but I was going to remind him about the potential danger, which in his mind was the same thing.

When I sent him the email about why it's dangerous to put metal where it can touch uninsulated wire, I think he finally understood, but he was still p!ssed off that I wanted to "correct him". He's unbelievably intelligent, but has little common sense about everyday things--it's hard to imagine how inept he truly is. (When we first got together, he told me his ex-wife told him he wasn't holding a screwdriver properly, and of course he was really insulted. I thought that was really weird at the time, but now I totally understand her.)

The OCD comes into play with protocol. There is a proper way of doing things and everybody should do them that way--is how my OCD manifests itself. I'm not terribly rigid, but little things bug me disproportionately--like leaving crumbs on the counter. I keep my mouth shut about everything but a few very important issues--like if he's going to hurt himself or break something I'll have to fix.