First time posting

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hello - I'm glad I found this site.  Thanks to all of you who contribute.  It's comforting to know I'm not alone. 

I have been married for almost 19 years to my uBPDw.  We have been separated for over one and a half years, and I have been taking care of our 4 children practically full time since she left.  Our relationship has been rocky for the entire duration of the marriage including domestic violence against me.  Last spring, she filed for divorce, and now we are engaged in a complicated legal battle.  Then last fall, she was diagnosed with cancer and is currently undergoing treatment.  Things are on hold at the moment, but I expect that the divorce will move forward in a few months.  She has not shown any interest in reconciliation or counseling.

It would be unfair to demonize her - She has always carried deep pain from all the way back to her childhood.  I also have much personal growth to do and know I have had many shortcomings as a husband.  More recently, I'm recognizing that I should have taken better steps to take care of myself and children.  It has been a juggling act to manage a full time job while taking care of the children who are my top priority, but thankfully, it has been working out better than I expected. 

I'd appreciate any advice around divorce, custody, and helping my children through this process.

[journeyman]

Hello - I'm glad I found this site.  Thanks to all of you who contribute.  It's comforting to know I'm not alone. 

I have been married for almost 19 years to my uBPDw.  We have been separated for over one and a half years, and I have been taking care of our 4 children practically full time since she left.  Our relationship has been rocky for the entire duration of the marriage including domestic violence against me.  Last spring, she filed for divorce, and now we are engaged in a complicated legal battle.  Then last fall, she was diagnosed with cancer and is currently undergoing treatment.  Things are on hold at the moment, but I expect that the divorce will move forward in a few months.  She has not shown any interest in reconciliation or counseling.

It would be unfair to demonize her - She has always carried deep pain from all the way back to her childhood.  I also have much personal growth to do and know I have had many shortcomings as a husband.  More recently, I'm recognizing that I should have taken better steps to take care of myself and children.  It has been a juggling act to manage a full time job while taking care of the children who are my top priority, but thankfully, it has been working out better than I expected. 

I'd appreciate any advice around divorce, custody, and helping my children through this process.

[livednlearned]

Hi journeyman,

Welcome! Glad you found the site -- and yes, you are definitely not alone.

How old are your kids? It's challenging to be the primary caregiver, but I found it got easier when I left. It felt so wonderful to walk into the home knowing that it was going to be peaceful. Are your kids doing ok? It can be so complex for them, wanting a mother who can be there for them, and yet, knowing on many levels that she cannot and never will be a normal mother. They must feel some guilt too now that your w is diagnosed with cancer.

It's great that you found this site before filing for divorce. I didn't discover it until after I filed and wish I had the collective wisdom of members here to help guide me. Fortunately, it was about 18 months into the ordeal that I discovered BPD and started to put two and two together.

What kind of custody arrangement is your wife asking for? Do you have a good lawyer that you like?

[journeyman]

Livednlearned, thanks for the warm welcome.  My w and I have 4 children: 17, 14, 9, and 6.  They have struggled in different ways with the separation, but in many ways, things are better now than they were before.  W lives only 10 minutes away, so they get to see her a few times a week for a few hours at a time.  Even before her cancer, they weren't seeing her very much.

One of the biggest pain points for me was how she treated the kids and raised them.  She was often angry at the kids and lashed out at them in awful ways.  I would try to raise the kids to be polite and responsible and would end up taking a lot of heat from her.  There were times she got so violent that I had to leave the house with the kids and spend the night with friends.  The level of tension in the home is way less now.  It is really tough raising 4 kids on my own, but I love coming home from work now, and all the kids have adjusted reasonable well to new schools.  As crazy as it sounds, being a single dad has been better than I expected.

My wife wants 50/50 custody and spousal support, but given her challenges with the kids and the DV history, I'm going for legal custody with no spousal support.  I'm fortunate to have a lawyer who cares about my situation and is competent.  Things will probably heat up in a couple of months once w's treatment is over.

If you don't mind me asking, what was it like for you going through a divorce with BPD in the mix?  Any tips with how to help the kids through this process?

[livednlearned]

If you don't mind me asking, what was it like for you going through a divorce with BPD in the mix?  Any tips with how to help the kids through this process?

There are some very predictable things that happen in BPD divorces. If you haven't read Splitting: Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy, go ahead and download it to your computer right away. Eddy was a social worker (marriage counselor?) and then family court mediator, then family law attorney. He realized, once he began practicing law, that many of the high-conflict divorces he saw involved someone with a personality disorder. So he wrote the book from the perspective of someone who cares about your mental health getting through this, as well as your kids. He also wrote a book called Don't Alienate the Kids (which I think misses the point a bit, because it's really about raising emotionally resilient kids). Both those books will get you off to an excellent start.

We also have a really good section on the Coparenting board about Raising Resilient Kids, including a section of books written about having a parent with BPD (without calling it that): https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=182254.msg1331459#msg1331459

There might be some books that are appropriate for your kids to read, depending on their age.

My divorce is a bit different than some here because my ex was a former trial attorney. He filed 60+ filings with the court in 4 years, so I got to know the court house pretty well. N/BPDx represented himself after the first year or so, and that's not likely to happen in your situation.

The truth is that these divorces are hard. The marriages were hard, the divorces are hard. Same behaviors that you saw while married tend to be there during the divorce. BPD sufferers experience extreme rejection sensitivity, can be very impulsive, and return to emotional baseline slower than we do. We, on the other hand, want to save money and focus on the kids, and have an amicable low-conflict divorce. So goals are different, to say the least. If your wife is ill, she may obstruct and delay more, it's hard to say. Mine tried to throw anything and everything to see what would stick, a different kind of conflict. Anything I tried to do to help my son, he tried to thwart it because it was coming from me.

That's the bad part. The good part is that when you start to really learn and understand what BPD is, it can unlock a lot of emotional healing if you're open to it. We tend to bring our own unhealthy dynamic (numbed feelings, depression, codependence) to these BPD marriages, and I learned so much about what it means to raise an emotionally healthy child. To do that, I had to figure out what it meant for me. Best thing to ever happen to me, although also quite painful.

If you haven't already, start by reading about validation. Sorry to throw so many book titles your way, but another book that broke open the doors for me was Power of Validation -- it's a book about using validation in parenting. I saw immediate effects using those techniques with my son. He talked about not wanting to live when he was 8, and was diagnosed with depression at 9. Having a BPD father, you can imagine how worrying it is to see this kind of thing so young. But thanks to therapy, therapy, and more therapy, and this site, and reading everything I could, I feel like I gave my son a second chance to grow up as an emotionally healthy kid. Middle school has created some regressive issues, but I'm hopeful that things are headed in the right direction.

It must be so stressful what you're going through, but sometimes these crises can actually bring you closer to your kids, and them to each other.

Hang in there. It's not easy, but it does get better.

LnL

[journeyman]

The truth is that these divorces are hard. The marriages were hard, the divorces are hard. Same behaviors that you saw while married tend to be there during the divorce.

Thanks for the dose of reality.  When my w got sick last Fall, my hopes for reconciliation were high.  I really didn't want to divorce and made up my mind to forgive her and offer to do whatever it took to reconcile.  I was back on the rollercoaster ride - one moment, she was scared, sad, and reaching out to me; the next, she would push me away in cold anger.  Learning to love and detach is still in process for me. 

The good part is that when you start to really learn and understand what BPD is, it can unlock a lot of emotional healing if you're open to it. We tend to bring our own unhealthy dynamic (numbed feelings, depression, codependence) to these BPD marriages, and I learned so much about what it means to raise an emotionally healthy child. To do that, I had to figure out what it meant for me. Best thing to ever happen to me, although also quite painful.

Thanks for the pointers to all the materials.  When my w first left, I found myself dwelling a lot on her condition and behavior.  More recently, I've been looking at myself and see a lot of emotional baggage and opportunities to grow.  It's been tempting to dwell on her issues without really looking at my own.  Being alone in parenting has exposed a lot of dynamics that I want to change.

How did you pursue emotional healing?  I've been talking to a therapist on and off.  He does not have detailed knowledge of BPD.  Do you think that's a problem?  I also have a couple of close friends I talk to.  I find I have to explain a lot since they don't have firsthand experience with PD's, but really appreciate that they want to listen.  Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for letting me pepper you with lots of questions.

[livednlearned]

How did you pursue emotional healing? 

I worked with two therapists and a psychiatrist throughout this whole experience. The first T was mediocre. The second one was fantastic. I'm starting to think that (for me) the therapists who don't take insurance can afford to do so because enough people want to see them. I'm able to get a percentage of my visits covered retroactively through my insurance company's behavioral health plan, and the deductible is $500. So it's partly covered, but a big hassle to get reimbursed. But time and time again she has reached into my life and unplugged something that seemed critically important at the time. Also, I tend to be in my head a lot, very thinky and my T is skilled at getting me to focus on my feelings. 

I also did group therapy for a year. That was extremely helpful, painful, exhausting, fascinating. Two therapists facilitated, and it was 8 women once a week.

A big breakthrough happened when I discovered BPD. Your question about whether the T understands BPD is interesting -- a lot of Ts don't want to spend the hour focusing on the BPD behavior because they want to spend the session focusing on you. But that's different than a T who doesn't know much about BPD. To me, not understanding the dynamic would be a deal breaker. My T did not label N/BPDx -- I had to discover it on my own. All that did was give us a shorthand and some parity about understanding the behavior, and linking it back to my childhood.

I wish she had discussed the label with me. The way I discovered BPD is that I kept hearing my lawyer refer to my case as "high-conflict" and Googled to see what that might lead to. I found Splitting, and then some other books by Randi Kreger (she co-authors the book, I think). Then BPDCentral, and then on one of the forums there, someone mentioned bpdfamily and when I discovered the Family Law board, I could not believe how helpful and kind people were, and the validation about what I was going through was so profound.

If my T had told me she suspected BPD, it would have saved me a lot of stress and anxiety, I think. It can be a distraction to focus too much on the disorder, but it has also helped me parent better and minimize my stress, my guilt, and all that.

Are you sitting in therapy doubting whether your T is effective? If you've just started, you can hop around and visit other Ts. If you've been seeing yours for a while, maybe let him/her know that you want to talk to someone who understands BPD.

My T has been sued twice by clients with BPD, so having her validate my own legal process and what to expect was very helpful.

[catnap]

Welcome journeyman.

Livednlearned has given you a lot of great information.  The other thing is to not be too nice expecting your stbx (soon to be ex) to reciprocate.  They take it as a weakness.  :)o not give up anything you are fairly entitled to such as child support.  If anything it can be left as leverage or a bargaining tool.  My guess is that her wanting 50/50 has a lot more to do with child support money than it does wanting to parent.  

Document her behavior with the children prior to her leaving--anger, lashing out, spending very little time with them even when she was in the home, etc.  She will probably portray the recent lack of attention to the children due to her illness, not a long time standing pattern.  The diagnosis won't matter as much as showing the behavior and the patterns that have persisted over the years.  It is important to think how long (a few hours, no overnights) often the children should/want to spend with their mother.  I am not suggesting you encourage not seeing their mother, but not putting an undue burden on them by full weekends or overnights if you feel it will not be in their best interests.  

Another suggestion would be to find a T that does have a working knowledge of BPD for yourself as well is having a T for the children to see who is knowledgeable.  An Umbrella for Alex by Rachel Rashkin-Shoot is a good book for younger children.  

"An Umbrella for Alex narrates a young boy's journey as he attempts to understand and cope with his mother's abrupt mood swings. Written to be read with a therapist, parent, or other trusted adult, the story of Alex reassures affected children that they did not cause and are not responsible for the volatile behavior of their parent. Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a mental illness that affects some adults, and manifests itself by abrupt mood swings and episodes of anger or desperation. It impacts family relationships, especially parenting interactions, in frightening and confusing ways. This book is suitable for both boys and girls, and the absence of the term "Borderline Personality Disorder" in it makes the book available to a wider audience, specifically those children whose mother or father has been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Bipolar Disorder or other mental illness."  www.amazon.com/An-Umbrella-Alex-Rachel-Rashkin-Shoot/dp/1427602980

[ForeverDad]

Livednlearned has given you a lot of great information.  The other thing is to not be too nice expecting your stbx (soon to be ex) to reciprocate.  They take it as a weakness.  Do not give up anything you are fairly entitled to such as child support.  If anything it can be left as leverage or a bargaining tool.  My guess is that her wanting 50/50 has a lot more to do with child support money than it does wanting to parent.

She also may have a public mask, everyone thinks society has a default preference for mothers, at least my ex did.  Yours may too.  Whether it's money or the appearance of Motherhood, just do what you feel is right for the children and you.

So if court may not see a need to grant you custody, you can at least try to get effective equivalents such as (1) joint with decision-making or (2) joint with tie-breaker status.

As for parenting time, you already have majority time.  Hold onto it, don't feel guilted to settle for less than what is already working.  If the temporary order has you with majority time, court ought to be reluctant to order a change from what already is working.  But most cases, even many high conflict ones, do manage to end in settlements.  In negotiations you will face pressure to settle and weaken your current position with majority time.  So determine now what your boundary will be in this regard.  Then don't let her guilt you into anything you feel is not best for the children.

[livednlearned]

In my state, there was a big custody case a while ago where the mom was dying of cancer, and the dad had moved to be in another state. He wanted the kids to be with him. After a high-profile custody case, the mom (stage 4 breast cancer) lost custody and the kids moved to be with the dad. The mom had to go up there and get an apartment and saw her kids for limited periods of time before she eventually passed away.

I have a feeling there were some PDs involved, if not one then maybe both parents based on some other things that came out during the case. But the bottom line is that the forensic psychiatrists were brought in to give expert testimony, and they believed that the kids were better off with the "healthy" parent.

Your state may have a precedent based on something similar. If you don't mind the financial situation -- ie. not receiving child support from your wife -- and she is the one resisting how much time the kids spend with her, then think seriously about how hard you want to fight for what is on paper. This is a somewhat unorthodox opinion for these boards, but you have to weigh all parts of your situation and decide how the particulars will likely play out. There are some members who get 50/50 from the courts, and then, for whatever reasons, the BPD mom "unofficially" gives the dad more time with the kids. Stress dysregulates people with BPD, and parenting can be stressful. And your wife is sick, so she may be less inclined to have the kids as much time as she is awarded through court.

Do you think she could handle the kids 50/50?

[ForeverDad]

My father was given 6-9 months when diagnosed with cancer at age 80, he lived to 91, old age was what did him in.  My sister was in stage 4 cancer and she too was given months to live without chemo and radiation.  She chose to take a new targeted therapy and it's been in remission for 15 years.

My point is that she may survive living with cancer for years, perhaps it may end up being only a side issue in her life.  There are no advance assurances either sooner or later.  So make your decisions based on her living far longer than a worst case scenario.  You're not being mean or cruel, you're being objective and practical... .

If you give her more official time then if she lives a long time you're stuck with a bad order.  If you stick to the current majority time then you can always be the reasonable parent and allow her some extra time as you decide is appropriate.

The point is that you can choose to gift her extra time using good judgment and based on the circumstances, but you can't do that if your order forces you to give up your time to her regardless the circumstances.

Since the parenting order is currently 'working' with you as majority time parent, keep it as is, though you could make a concession (if your court allows) to set joint custody with you having "decision-making" or "tie-breaker" status.  With one of those two variations then it is "joint" in words so she hasn't 'lost custody' but effectively you stay in control as the responsible parent.

This is why I don't want you to gift her with 50/50:

One of the biggest pain points for me was how she treated the kids and raised them.  She was often angry at the kids and lashed out at them in awful ways.  I would try to raise the kids to be polite and responsible and would end up taking a lot of heat from her.  There were times she got so violent that I had to leave the house with the kids and spend the night with friends.  The level of tension in the home is way less now.  It is really tough raising 4 kids on my own, but I love coming home from work now, and all the kids have adjusted reasonable well to new schools.  As crazy as it sounds, being a single dad has been better than I expected.

Now that you're apart, you don't want to gift her an extra time where she would almost certainly continue her pattern of raging at the children.  (I say this especially if she is not in real therapy and making solid demonstrable progress.)

[livednlearned]

The other possibility (again, if you are not financially struggling to paying child support, and 50/50 is reasonable) is to offer to increase her alimony so she doesn't focus on the custody part.

What's tricky about that is that the courts don't like you to mix custody negotiations with money negotiations, but then they fix child support according to the visitation schedule, which naturally makes people inclined to think of it that way, at least those who care about the money more than the kids. And lawyers are ethically not supposed to make deals based on money when it comes to the kids. So your wife will have to tiptoe around it.

To FD's point about cancer and how long people live -- I'm thinking more about the strain on her health. Chemo and radiation are not easy to go through, and it can be stressful even for someone in a loving relationship. The courts may think it's entirely reasonable to set up a temporary custody schedule where the kids are with you more. If so, then that's great. Temporary orders often become permanent orders, which would work in your favor.

Also, you'll probably get more than 50/50 so it's best to ask for it. Mainly because the court also tends to go with status quo. If the kids have been with you majority time and you have that documented, it's likely a judge will rule to keep things as is.

[journeyman]

I've been reading through many of the recommended resources and have purchased a couple of books suggested here.  Lots more reading and processing ahead... .

I am certain that my wife would not be able handle 50/50, even if she were fully healthy.  She is not equipped to handle the emotional, relational, and logistical needs of 4 kids on a regular basis.  She can handle a few hours or the occasional overnight.  Last school year, my oldest son decided he wanted to stay with me full time and spend time with mom every other weekend.  And before the current school year started, the older kids proposed a schedule where they live at home with me, have the option to see mom for dinner during the week, and then alternate weekends.  This has been written up as a temporary order, and so far, it's been working.  If I added all the hours, I'd estimate that the kids are with me 90% of the time.  I think I have a strong case for majority time.  However, my L says that sole legal custody is rarely granted in my state, so I have to think more about what I'm willing to settle for. 

[ForeverDad]

If I added all the hours, I'd estimate that the kids are with me 90% of the time.  I think I have a strong case for majority time.  However, my L says that sole legal custody is rarely granted in my state, so I have to think more about what I'm willing to settle for.

If you have a temporary order that is favorable, then never budge from it.  Your biggest risk is being guilted, emotionally pressured, to weaken the order yourself.

In most areas custody and parenting schedules are, more or less, two separate items.  Parenting schedules deal with the day to day life.  That's in your favor, that's good.  That the children were involved in making the schedule, that's even better.  On the other hand, custody deals with major issues and major decisions, where the children attend school, medical decisions, etc.  As your lawyer surely indicated, courts don't want to yank custody from a parent without substantive basis, it could make one parent a winner and the other parent a loser, and that's not a concern to be taken lightly.  Which is why I recommended, if seeking custody won't work with the court, a fallback strategy to get near-equivalents:

So if court may not see a need to grant you custody, you can at least try to get effective equivalents such as (1) joint with decision-making or (2) joint with tie-breaker status.

[livednlearned]

Sole legal custody is pretty tough to get. Or expensive, if you want to look at it that way. In my state, the default is joint legal, but you can carve out decision-making, which essentially covers major medical and educational decisions. It's a way to defuse the ego pounding that can happen when someone gets "full" or "sole" anything.

Basically the only area where decision-making or sole custody matters is if you need to make a medical decision for your kids that your wife tries to obstruct. Or if you want your kids to see a therapist and she obstructs. Or if you want your kids to go to a different school and she obstructs.

Decision-making only applies to those things that require both guardians to sign.