Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

[michel71]

Hi all. I am posting on the undecided board because I just can't extricate myself from the relationship yet although it was "almost" over a few days ago.

I have seen other posts about how BPDs can be reckless with spending and how they often need instant gratification so they spend without thinking too much about the future.

I can't seem to shake this panic that my BPDw will cause me financial ruin. I have so many examples but basically I end up spending beyond my comfort level. I support her as she hasn't been able to get her license yet ( she is a nurse from the UK) and she seems to have no real regard for my finances, even telling her that essentially it is "ours" now. My T says that ultimately I have to take responsibility since I am the one who either pulls out the cash or writes the checks. Problem is that she makes me feel like a tight-wad or like I am not providing for her if I don't agree to her demands. Talking about a budget is useless. She twists and turns my words like she does with every other subject.

Finances are tighter because of her and her daughter. I am starting to get nervous and anxious about not having the money to pay my bills one day even though I make a good salary. The finances alone make me want to divorce her. There are endless examples of us not being on the same page.

Her and her daughter are hypochondriacs and also have just plain bad luck with injuries. In the span of one week, both of them fractured their fingers. We have a PPO so the bills will be coming in. She knows how stressed I am but does not seem to care. She thought it was funny to text a picture of her and her daughter to me today showing their "matching" hand braces and smiling. I felt insulted. I told her so when I got home and said "why didn't you just hold up some cash while you were at it".

I am doing everything I can to protect my assets including hiding money. I know this is bad if you are married but I fear that I will go broke. Has anybody felt this way? Any suggestions for further financial PROTECTION?

[Samuel S.]

Michel71, I was in the same exact situation you are in, especially after both of my parents passed away. I wanted to please my BPDw, bought a home, made major amounts of renovations, went on trips. She named it, I did it. Well, when I told her that we had less than $100,000 left, then, she was a little bit more cautious, but that is when she started degrading my daughters from my first marriage, thus brainwashing me to believe they did not deserve their inheritance. Even after that, the money drained out.

Now that I am receiving retirement and working part-time and now that she continues to work part-time but earns way more than I do, she complains about how I did not pay off the mortgage, that she has to work more, that I am not supplying enough money as a man, etc., etc.

So, Michel71, I suggest you ask her how much money she herself is willing to supply to support your relationship and your lifestyle. I suspect you are going to get a blank stare and a bunch of rationalizations.

Under the circumstances, I agree with your T.

[Traumatized]

Mine has financially ruined me.  I never had much to begin with, but at least I was working regularly, had some savings and was debt free.

Two years later... .I barely work at all, have no money and am deep in credit card with no hope of paying it back.  Down the road I may have to ruin my otherwise excellent credit and file for bankruptcy. 

I can't blame her 100% though.  A lot has to do with my obsession with her and my desire to spend every possible minute I could with her at my own expense (literally).  I would skip work when I knew I should be going to work.  I also adopted her spending habits by putting everything on my credit card, even when I knew I didn't have the money to pay it back.  Before that I had always been financially responsible for myself and paid all my bills on time. 

[Dutched]

My T says that ultimately I have to take responsibility since I am the one who either pulls out the cash or writes the checks. Problem is that she makes me feel like a tight-wad or like I am not providing for her if I don't agree to her demands. Talking about a budget is useless. She twists and turns my words like she does with every other subject.

Has anybody felt this way? Any suggestions for further financial PROTECTION?

I couldn’t agree more with your T

What I hear/read is that you ASAP must get back in control, no matter how or what!

If you don’t consequences will be by far worse! Think about that, think about years and years to come to live very sober in order to pay your debts!

And… (as you will be blamed anyway…) will your wife accept “such a lousy life”? I doubt it my friend.

I am very direct maybe, but no offence for you or your situation!

Please try to rationalize matters

#Gather your bank statements / credit card info, bills etc over the last 12-24 months!

#Use Excel; per month incoming and outgoing (house/insurances/car/cloths (per family member, etc)

#Print it and back it up by statements, etc.

#Prepare your “case” well, handle it as a normal business meeting  

Create a nice atmosphere! As even when you will calmly “confront” her, be prepared for distraction (I don’t believe it / you made a mistake / you bought that / etc.). All the twists as you write.

So:

# Ask questions (!)

   Do not question her 2 pairs of shoes per month (get it? ) only the TOTAL of cloths.

DO ask how can WE change spending on X (so it will be HER idea(!), but guard your boundaries!

# Make notes of her ideas and immediately adjust your printed copy! Immediately!

Indeed as she is confronted with facts, prepare for upheaval, deflecting, not taking responsibility.

AHA, responsibility, now were are getting some where!

You, in a direct and firm way must set the boundaries, as you proved she has a hole in her hand (similar of the hole in the bucket from Harry Bellafonte )

# You prepared a 2nd sheet (SURPRISE) well balanced! So YOUR idea!

AND prepare on that    

   Monthly transfer of an amount to a savings account (future/car/unplanned events). You decide!  

# Compare both and “discuss” briefly, then adjust the amounts (you thought X, she X1, but you can live with it, or stick to your X)

Now, this far, do NOT allow any details to distract you.

2nd  bank account for daily living costs only. THAT will be the account for her to manage! Tell her, and tell her to stay away from the “main account” unless discussed!

# You retreat and finalize!  

# Check every bank statement, etc.!

Make her see that you check it (if asked why, for “us” for our family, our future).Let her see that you are in control, your boundary will not be violated!

# Stick to it and once a month create a nice atmosphere in order to talk about the progress (yes, emphasize the positive, as pwBPD are prone to receive compliments, like an 4 yr. old).  

# set mutual goals, summarize each subject AND make notes for the next month.


I have been there in the very beginning of the r/s.

I budgeted/controlled finances/legal/insurances, etc. and she never, never dared to exceed budget, unless WE agreed.

Oh yes, she tried and tried. Blaming that she was not even informed, etc. However she had access to all papers, all the notes of our monthly review, on which she also wrote or even were by her hand, were dated and filed in the study. So without me saying anything, I just gave her the file and walked away.

Do it! For you, your family, your future!

[michel71]

WOW! Thanks to Dutched and all of you for the great replies. I think I am at the point of no return. Divorce seems eminent. It is best to just cut my loses now rather than be 10 or 30 years into the misery. No trust left on either side. Nothing to work with.

[Second Birth]

I absolutely relate to your worries and this is after 34 years of marriage and being in our late 60's.  The long term pattern I have seen is always spending more than what we can afford.   When we were younger and had kids, it might have been an expensive night out we couldn't afford.  As there was more money, it turned into things like motorcycles.  Now that we're retired it is constructing cabins. 

I have tried to divorce my husband several times during our marriage but have always allowed myself to be manipulated into staying.  4 years ago, since money was always a trigger for a fight, I told him the only way I would continue the marriage is if we were commited to a cash only plan.  The agreement was also that he give me his portion of the bill money at the beginning of the month with whatever was left as his spending money... .no checking account, no credit cards, no loans.  I thought I had set boundaries and come up with a viable plan.  It eased my worries over paying bills in a timely manner and the only negative was dealing with his resentment over feeling controlled.

I did not hold to boundaries tightly enough... .first he was spending relatively small amounts on store accounts for things like gas, auto parts, guitars.  This month he informed me he had gotten a credit card.  Then I discover paperwork relating to a personal loan he took out for $7000 about two years ago... .for this cabin he is working on, I guess.

Tomorrow I meet his psychiatrist for the first time, as a result of a recent agrument resulting in an ultimatum from him... .to intimidate me, show I'm unbalanced... .I don't know.  But I am looking forward to the meeting as a first step toward something healthier.  I am also going to set up a meeting with a lawyer.  I have separated our finances, names on deeds, etc. but I want to find out how to best protect myself.  We are on a fixed income and it would not be hard to put us in financial ruin or have him use up all his assets, as a spender, and expect me to bail him out with the modest savings I have been able to gather.

While I'm new to bpdfamily, I've been working on myself and my marriage for a very long time and despite that, ultimately the marriage may have to end.  I wish I had constructive advice to offer but frankly, that is what I am searching for myself.  Wishing you well.

[Aussie0zborn]

Topic: Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

During the course of the marriage : No.

Post marriage : yes and you won't believe how low she has gone and how unstoppable she thinks she is.

[Second Birth]

Topic: Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

During the course of the marriage : No.

Post marriage : yes and you won't believe how low she has gone and how unstoppable she thinks she is.

I had hoped the end of the marriage would mean the end of financial vulnerability but you see to be saying it was the beginning.  Can you briefly elaborate, as I am leaning strongly in the direction of divorce as my best protection against financial ruin. 

[Tim300]

Topic: Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

During the course of the marriage : No.

Post marriage : yes and you won't believe how low she has gone and how unstoppable she thinks she is.

I had hoped the end of the marriage would mean the end of financial vulnerability but you see to be saying it was the beginning.  Can you briefly elaborate, as I am leaning strongly in the direction of divorce as my best protection against financial ruin. 

Likewise, can anyone elaborate on how low they go to financially destroy you post marriage?  What types of claims and arguments do they make?  Thanks.

[Dutched]

Topic: Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

During the course of the marriage : No.

Post marriage : yes and you won't believe how low she has gone and how unstoppable she thinks she is.

I had hoped the end of the marriage would mean the end of financial vulnerability but you see to be saying it was the beginning.  Can you briefly elaborate, as I am leaning strongly in the direction of divorce as my best protection against financial ruin. 

Likewise, can anyone elaborate on how low they go to financially destroy you post marriage?  What types of claims and arguments do they make?  Thanks.

General, in case my friends:

= You know your partner, feelings = facts so use it to your advantage

= Do not listen to the words, judge upon her action only!

(she needs you during the procedure... .for her advantage only... .)

= A BPD will try to act behind your back, prepare and stay prepared.

= Most likely she will act as the victim, trying to use that to her advantage.

=As ‘justification’ to get even, pwBPD will try to hurt you on your most sensitive spots (family belongings, inheritances,  etc), so safe guard them.

= Prepare finances, passwords, keep hold on your papers (house, insurances, etc).

= prepare your lawyer for a high conflict procedure, at least make him aware it will not be a standard one!

= Open a 2nd bank account. Have your salary spilt to your 2nd and the old mutual in order to pay the monthly charges (mortgage, taxes, insurances, etc.) If it can be arranged with your employer, use a description as ‘partial payment mont x’. To stbex, when asked: ‘I was asked for reasons to accept and I did’, turn around and walk away.

= when possible, safeguard your savings, thave them transferred to your 2nd bank account (at the end a balance must be made anyway, but this prevents stbx to plunder).


Exw left in an outburst and plaid the victim:

= just before payment date, exw had the clarity of mind to have her salary paid on her brothers bank account.

However exw forget to have the address changed, so I received it at ‘our’ address.

Due to that mistake I was able to prove theft of mutual funds.

= exw withdrew immediately form all parental responsibility (financially and concerning school matters.

Financially my lawyer and I didn’t made a point out of it due to the fact that exw’s income is a third of mine, so avoiding triggers.

= the house was mutual belonging, consequently the mortgage, local taxes, house insurances, etc.

Exw didn’t pay her share. Avoiding triggers during the procedure, I was sitting duck and paid all. But at settlement date I presented my specified claim. Exw could only accept as I would refuse to sign the settlement and forcing exw to go to court again.

=exw claimed half of an insurance policy (which value increased in time as it was linked with the mortgage) in my name. The judge decision was that the value had to be know at settlement date, of course. Exw and her lawyer didn’t realise they filed, so exw had to prove the value… They couldn’t as the policy is on my name. They tried but than a lawyer is very handy to stipulate the exact conditions. It costs her a lot of money.

In my case exw filed for divorce. So I ‘educated’ my lawyer to play sitting duck. It took exw 9 months to officially file. As predicted by me it was simple standard what exw claimed, just simple 50/50. However as exw didn’t had any papers, so in my advantage.

I wanted to avoid triggers, but being firm in my boundaries. Took advantage of her dissociative thinking/twisting (her lawyer just vented what exw said… sorry still laughing about that). As they were inconsistent it was in my advantage again.

Emotionally prepare for the worst as the stbex will appeal on the old relationship, the friendship and you are still in a kind of FOG. Please beware of that. Marriage is love, divorce is law/business.

 

[Tim300]

Thank you, Dutched.

[maxen]

my god, the pain in this thread. during my marriage i was in constant fear of my wife's spending and after she bolted i was terrorized about what i could lose. financial insecurity is in the category of worst feelings you can have.

Tim, you've received an excellent precis from Dutched. please read through it carefully. also go to the Legal board and post there. the one positive in here is this bit:

In my case exw filed for divorce. So I ‘educated’ my lawyer to play sitting duck. It took exw 9 months to officially file. As predicted by me it was simple standard what exw claimed, just simple 50/50. However as exw didn’t had any papers, so in my advantage.

I wanted to avoid triggers, but being firm in my boundaries. Took advantage of her dissociative thinking/twisting (her lawyer just vented what exw said… sorry still laughing about that). As they were inconsistent it was in my advantage again.

if your SO does have BPD, it's altogether possible that she will tie herself in knots. warn your lawyer about this. mine was brilliant, she just didn't react to any bait thrown our way. i also had this experience:

(her lawyer just vented what exw said… sorry still laughing about that)

and according to my lawyer this caused the other lawyer to overstep, leading to attempts to make nice to us, of which we took full opportunity.

i'm so sorry for what everyone has been put through, i've been in that neighborhood.

[Compassion14]

Topic: Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

During the course of the marriage : No.

Post marriage : yes and you won't believe how low she has gone and how unstoppable she thinks she is.

Very similar to this... .during the relationship - it was the last thing I believed he would do. Now... .as he's left me struggling with HIS massive debt - absolutely. Only, I won't let him.

Time to play hard ball.

[Tim300]

Topic: Do you ever feel that your BPD will financially ruin you?

During the course of the marriage : No.

Post marriage : yes and you won't believe how low she has gone and how unstoppable she thinks she is.

Very similar to this... .during the relationship - it was the last thing I believed he would do. Now... .as he's left me struggling with HIS massive debt - absolutely. Only, I won't let him.

Time to play hard ball.

Can you help explain how he stuck you with the debt?  Was this debt he had taken on before marrying you, or after?  How was the debt used during the marriage and where did the interest payments come from (e.g., a shared account)?  Thanks!

[Ripped Heart]

Ironically, as someone who doesn't have strong boundaries, I do when it comes to money 

My pwBPD would financially ruin me if she could, she is in a load of debt, I've bailed her out of so many things and whenever we go shopping, she is always looking at new things or things I could do with for my place.

I've come home from work before and found brand new appliances because she has decided to put some laundry on for me, found money in a pocket and gone out and spent it. It could be worse, she could have stolen from me but she doesn't, she buys things she thinks I need (that really she wants)

She has been really upset in the past because she doesn't know the pin number to my credit and debit cards, yet I know hers. However, I never use hers and she was the one who suggested I know it, just in case.

I've been stung in the past with my exN/BPDw and ended up paying all of her debts off too, won't get caught out again. exN/BPDw was in major debt too (almost 6 figure debt) yet would still take 3 - 4 vacations a year and always had to fly first class because she felt she was too good for anything else.

[Tim300]

I've been stung in the past with my exN/BPDw and ended up paying all of her debts off too, won't get caught out again. exN/BPDw was in major debt too (almost 6 figure debt) yet would still take 3 - 4 vacations a year and always had to fly first class because she felt she was too good for anything else.

How did you get stuck paying the debt?  And how were these women taking on so much debt?  Was some of it student loans?  I guess many of these BPDs retire relatively poor (with debt and little savings). 

[Ripped Heart]

How did you get stuck paying the debt?  And how were these women taking on so much debt?  Was some of it student loans?  I guess many of these BPDs retire relatively poor (with debt and little savings). 

I didn't end up paying all of her debt, first there was the wedding. We arranged a small affair, tropical beach with a few family members, well within our budget. Her NPD mother got involved and it turned into a show. 300 people who her mother wanted to show off their wealth to, no expense spared and when I contested, was told that her parents were doing this for us. When the divorce came, her parents were angry they paid so much for the wedding for a short lived marriage, they hit me for half the bill. Just to get out of there, I agreed.

I had to pay off her credit card simply because we were married. Given that most of her debts were ran up before I met her, felt that was a bit unfair because her money was hers, my money was also hers. If I wanted something, I had to ask because she had total control. Again, just to get out of there I agreed and paid off her credit card within the first 6 months of getting out of there.

Some of it was student loans, others were living way above her means. What her parents did for her was took out a loan to pay off all her debts which is why I know exactly how much debt she was in and then they tried to hit me for half of that too. When I threatened to get my own lawyer and drag it out, they dropped that part so I ended up with half the wedding and the credit cards.

Given there were no assets (because she had never lived on her own, always with her parents at 35) and given that they weren't chasing me to keep her in a "lifestyle she was accustomed to" I felt I got off quite lightly because it could have been much worse.

[michel71]

How long were you married RIP HEART?

[ShadowIntheNight]

I'm more fortunate than most in this situation. My uBPDexgf had a reasonably well paying job, but she was always lacking for money. She would pay bills late, have her power, cell, & cable cut off, you name it she managed to do it. I could never figure why as she didn't live terribly beyond her means.

I am financially independent and never pay a single bill late nor have ever had something "cutoff" because I misse payments. However, by the time she abruptly ended our 9.5 yr relationship I had accrued over $40k in credit card debt. Never had that much at one time! last April I noticed her behaving oddly and so I didn't make any financial offers to help her out. Good thing, by August she had written a note telling me she had been dating men all summer (really since April, but she's a liar too). We had been in a lesbian relat and she decided to go back into the closet (she had been married for 10 yrs, the whole time knowing she was gay & has 2 kids also.). Since we've been apart, I have gotten rid of almost all of my credit card debt. I thought my financial abilities would rub off on her over the years. Clearly they did not. She even has a second job. Who ever the guy is she managed to lure in will be wondering where his cash goes soon enough. We travelled well. She'll be used to that and expect it.

For our 10 year anniversary we had planned to go to Hawaii. I'm still going. She can work her two jobs and prostitute herself to some guy so he can help her pay her bills. Their problems, not mine.

[maxen]

I thought my financial abilities would rub off on her over the years. Clearly they did not.

i'm also the sort who pays bills on time, balances checkbooks, examines credit card statements, and the BPDw was none of that, but i hoped that by setting boundaries and emphasizing the importance of some measure of prudence for what was supposed to be a lifetime partnership, she might rein in things a bit, or make the effort. nope. and my L, who is otherwise as professional as they come, allowed herself one bit of spice when she saw my wife's statement of net worth. i'll be assuming her debt as part of the settlement, but "yeah, she'll just rack up some more."

i didn't know BPD.

[Boss302]

My BPDx did all the same things discussed here. We always had a very tight budget but that didn't stop her from doing things like running up obscene phone and mobile bills (this was before things like unlimited-calling plans), spending hundreds of dollars on stuff we didn't need, and the like. She would routinely spend $400-500 a month on useless stuff. So one month I decided to go out and just buy some stuff of my own to illustrate a point. It was all "man" stuff - hockey jerseys, RC helicopters, electronic stuff, etc. I came home and said, "look at all this cool stuff I bought. I just dropped $500 on all this. " She looked at me, horrified, and said, "how dare you spend that kind of money and not talk to me about it." My response? "Why should I? You don't. How do you think it makes me feel? And I can return all this stuff - how do you return a $400 cell phone bill?"

I never intended to keep all that stuff and took it back - it was just to bring the point home of what she was doing. I think that might have worked on a normal wife, but not Ms. Freak Show. It kept going. To wit:

She committed to going to her father's wedding to his new wife. There was no way we could afford to send her, me and our two kids on a plane trip for this, so I suggested she go alone and just explain the rest of us weren't able to come (not unreasonable in the least), or drive it. Neither option appealed to Her Majesty, so the day before the wedding, she threw a fit at me, put the kids in the car, and headed to the airport to buy tickets to go. It would have been probably a couple thousand dollars to do this. She was willing to spend OUR rent money and didn't care. I actually had to call the bank and tell them her cards were stolen so that she wouldn't be able to bankrupt us.

I eventually had to put all my salary on a prepaid debit card that I had the only copy of so she couldn't hurt us financially anymore.

But I'm not the only she has messed up financially. We've been divorced for about two and a half years, and she recently agreed to pay for college tuition at an expensive private school for D18, but as it turns out she didn't pay a damn thing. So, now D18's back at home, lost a semester at school, can't get her transcript from there, and owes about $15,000 to the school. Will Her Majesty take responsibility for that? Of course not. Responsibility is for little people.

Did I mention Ms. Freak Show is currently up on two counts of felony check fraud?

Stuff like this was a huge reason I divorced her. But if you choose to stay, I'd definitely recommend talking to a qualified professional about how to protect yourself. You have every right and reason to do so.