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Author Topic: Unconditional Love and Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD)  (Read 7780 times)
Tim300
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« on: January 19, 2015, 03:02:11 PM »

How do you reconcile loving someone unconditionally and tolerating BPD?  I mean, on the one hand, you want to love the other person no matter what, and be there for him/her no matter what.  But on the other hand, what if the other person is abusing you severely, repeatedly?  What if the other person begins to threaten your life?  I am not sure how to reconcile this. 

One way could be to love the other person unconditionally from a distance.  To have some sense that you'll always be there for him/her in spirit only
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 03:03:14 PM »

It's more important to love yourself. If you start doing that, you will stop loving the person abusing you.

Easier said than done, I know, Im still working on it myself. But that's the way out.
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 03:11:40 PM »

You can still love someone and let them go, it's about loving yourself more.  I love the beautiful girl buried under all the crap in my ex, but in order to love myself more she needs to be completely removed from my life.  I'm OK with that.
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 03:37:49 PM »

How do you reconcile loving someone unconditionally and tolerating BPD?  I mean, on the one hand, you want to love the other person no matter what, and be there for him/her no matter what.  But on the other hand, what if the other person is abusing you severely, repeatedly?  What if the other person begins to threaten your life?  I am not sure how to reconcile this.  

One way could be to love the other person unconditionally from a distance.  To have some sense that you'll always be there for him/her in spirit only.  

It's funny, but at the beginning of our r/s my exBPDgf told me that she was looking for unconditional love in a r/s.  I told her that wasn't possible; adult relationships are conditional - upon fidelity, for example.  I also told her that that unconditional love flowed from parents to their children - not between adults in a romantic r/s. (Some may disagree with me, but I think most of us have "dealbreaking" boundaries - that's why we're on the leaving board. If you have a "dealbreaking" boundary, then your love isn't unconditional.)

Little did I know that, in the end, a parent was exactly what she was looking for - at least in the beginning.

I've come to realize that our entire r/s was a replay of the dynamic she experienced with her mother (who I now suspect may also have BPD).  From the beginning 'needy/clinging' childlike phase, to the middle 'rebellious teenager' phase, to the 'You can't control me, I'm going to get my own place and live my own life' adult phase... .I'm beginning to think that I was never anything but a stand in for her unresolved issues with her mother.
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 04:01:32 PM »

My exGF also said she wants unconditional love in a relationship, we have to remember that is coming from somebody that does not know what love is! One of the biggest things that keeps people together through love is reciprocation, if you are being cheated on and verbally abused and in some cases having your life threatened, being financially taken advantage of, and you call that love? Then go ahead and reciprocate those actions and have a great life! I do not think they are looking for unconditional love, I think they are looking for unconditional forgiveness. If you think about it, if every time you were cheated on you just said that's okay I love you, you would still be in a relationship, if every time you were verbally abused you said that's okay I love you, you would still be in the relationship, and so on. To me unconditional love means these things do not exist. Unconditional love means no two people would put One or the other in a position to experience that much hurt. To be able to forgive is a amazing quality, but why should there be anything you have to forgive like that when somebody unconditionally loves you?
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 04:10:57 PM »

My exGF also said she wants unconditional love in a relationship, we have to remember that is coming from somebody that does not know what love is!

I actually think they are looking for unconditional love - the unconditional love they missed receiving as children.  Remember, BPD is a disorder of arrested emotional development.  Emotionally, they are very much like children. And children can't love deeply... .someone said it recently in another discussion:  think about how a 4 year old "loves" their parents.  Is it really "love?"  No, not really... .it's attachment and affection because their parents are meeting their needs - not "love" in the adult sense of the word. I actually felt this dynamic of "immature love"  quite often in my r/s but I couldn't ever "name" it - it was just a vague, uncomfortable feeling I had that something was "off".
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 04:33:41 PM »

It's very easy for me.  Adults do not or at least should not love each other unconditionally.

Unconditional love is for parents towards their kids.

Between adults, it would imply that the person could do whatever and you would still love them and vice versa.

I would not want someone else to love me unconditionally.

If I acted horribly, then they should leave and move on emotionally.

Interestingly, my uBPDexgf and her friends were constantly going on and on about how they wanted unconditional and selfless love to be given to them.  They weren't interested in the particulars of the man they would be with but were sure that the ideal and what they deserved was to have a constant supply of endless love, no matter what they did.  Seems very unhealthy and odd to me.  But since it is something that is endorsed by Oprah's book club, Disney movies, and standard feminized pop-psychology, you will be hearing about this unconditional love all your life and many absorb it uncritically.
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Harri
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 04:44:07 PM »

Targeted wrote:
Excerpt
I think they are looking for unconditional forgiveness. If you think about it, if every time you were cheated on you just said that's okay I love you, you would still be in a relationship, if every time you were verbally abused you said that's okay I love you, you would still be in the relationship, and so on. To me unconditional love means these things do not exist. Unconditional love means no two people would put One or the other in a position to experience that much hurt. To be able to forgive is a amazing quality, but why should there be anything you have to forgive like that when somebody unconditionally loves you?

You said this so well, thank you.  I have never believed in unconditional love except from a parent to a child but I could never quite describe it as well as you have here.  Excellent!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2015, 04:44:48 PM »

One way could be to love the other person unconditionally from a distance.  To have some sense that you'll always be there for him/her in spirit only

Tim, this is a good way to look at it and reconcile those disparate truths. Loving someone and hoping for the best for them doesn't mean that we have to be involved in a relationship with them.

In fact, in the case of a pwBPD whose deepest core fears have been triggered by us, it's actually kinder of us to detach from them. That's unconditional love in action. Not to mention the most important thing, that it's healthier for us -- which is our unconditional love towards ourselves.

You can still love someone and let them go, it's about loving yourself more.

This.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

It's funny, but at the beginning of our r/s my exBPDgf told me that she was looking for unconditional love in a r/s. I told her that wasn't possible; adult relationships are conditional - upon fidelity, for example.  I also told her that that unconditional love flowed from parents to their children - not between adults in a romantic r/s. (Some may disagree with me, but I think most of us have "dealbreaking" boundaries - that's why we're on the leaving board. If you have a "dealbreaking" boundary, then your love isn't unconditional.)

I don't see it that way, jhkbuzz. Even parents and children have "dealbreaking" boundaries -- once the child reaches an age where he/she can live independently of the parent -- where if a relationship is toxic/abusive, either or both can sever connections. That doesn't mean that the love goes away. It means that the people involved are taking care of themselves.

Boundaries are vital. Yes, relationships are conditional -- we expect and deserve to be treated with respect, understanding, and acceptance, and when that isn't present in a relationship, we have every right to end that r/s. But that doesn't turn off the love. It may last forever, it may fade to indifference in time.

Love is a feeling, a connection... .it exists outside our intellectualizing and control. That's a big part of why we enter into and stay in toxic relationships. A lot of people with BPD exes have a great capacity for empathy, compassion, understanding, and love. We can't expect that to just switch off even though the r/s ends.
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Tim300
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2015, 04:54:30 PM »

In fact, in the case of a pwBPD whose deepest core fears have been triggered by us, it's actually kinder of us to detach from them. That's unconditional love in action.

This is a brilliant way of thinking about it.  This is a feeling to keep in my back pocket when needed as a reminder.  Thanks for reminding me of this.   
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2015, 04:59:15 PM »

I don't see it that way, jhkbuzz. Even parents and children have "dealbreaking" boundaries -- once the child reaches an age where he/she can live independently of the parent -- where if a relationship is toxic/abusive, either or both can sever connections. That doesn't mean that the love goes away. It means that the people involved are taking care of themselves.

I actually agree with you there - I was really talking about the r/s between a parent and child - the unconditional love that a parent has for an underage child. I don't think that unconditional love for a destructive adult child is healthy.

Excerpt
Boundaries are vital. Yes, relationships are conditional -- we expect and deserve to be treated with respect, understanding, and acceptance, and when that isn't present in a relationship, we have every right to end that r/s. But that doesn't turn off the love. It may last forever, it may fade to indifference in time.

Love is a feeling, a connection... .it exists outside our intellectualizing and control. That's a big part of why we enter into and stay in toxic relationships. A lot of people with BPD exes have a great capacity for empathy, compassion, understanding, and love. We can't expect that to just switch off even though the r/s ends.

I agree with you here as well, and I think it's why so many of us experience such difficulty in detaching.
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2015, 05:08:07 PM »

Even parents of murderers still love their children, they may disengage from a relationship with them though. I've heard parents say they don't like who the kid has become.
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2015, 05:09:23 PM »

Besides unconditional love my wife also wanted an unconditional financial situation. She thought that normal people didn't have to look at pricetags in a store. People who had to do that had f**ked up in some way.

It must be tough to feel rejected by expensive clothes.
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2015, 05:27:59 PM »

Targeted wrote:
Excerpt
I think they are looking for unconditional forgiveness. If you think about it, if every time you were cheated on you just said that's okay I love you, you would still be in a relationship, if every time you were verbally abused you said that's okay I love you, you would still be in the relationship, and so on. To me unconditional love means these things do not exist. Unconditional love means no two people would put One or the other in a position to experience that much hurt. To be able to forgive is a amazing quality, but why should there be anything you have to forgive like that when somebody unconditionally loves you?

You said this so well, thank you.  I have never believed in unconditional love except from a parent to a child but I could never quite describe it as well as you have here.  Excellent!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Yes but that works both ways, I had a issue in my family where my father was a drug addict, I love him unconditionally because he is my father, that did not mean I had to accept his actions and decisions or addictions, it meant he is my father and I love him, it got to the point where loving him, because I was married at the time and not living there meant I had to step in and help my mother throw him out of the house that was his and my mothers and change all the locks and screw all the windows shut so he could no longer take from the family to support his problem, by the way I did learn it as part of my codependency traits, but even doing something as harsh as that is unconditional love, not accepting regression and only wanting progression is unconditional love! Even though I have never touched drugs in my life my father is the reason why, and I love him unconditionally for that, I helped to throw him out on the street because we came to the realisation that's the only thing that would help and we love him unconditionally as a family  enough to go through that, in the end it worked!  He got the help he needed and came back to a family with open arms, forgiveness, Love, understanding, but most of all a problem resolved! He has been a amazing family member ever since, we even joke about throwing him out, even though he hated us for it at the time he loves us for it today. My whole family felt sick throwing him out, but here is a story where unconditional love works in both directions whether it be parent or child, in my life experiences unconditional love is not all about forgiveness, it's not about tolerance, it's not all about what I can do for you, it's not about what you can do for me, it's about A long-term investment and being selfless and only wanting The best possible outcome for everybody involved.
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2015, 05:54:06 PM »

Excerpt
in my life experiences unconditional love is not all about forgiveness, it's not about tolerance, it's not all about what I can do for you, it's not about what you can do for me, it's about A long-term investment and being selfless and only wanting The best possible outcome for everybody involved.

Nice Targeted! 

And how that can apply to us is we can love someone unconditionally while concurrently loving ourselves unconditionally.  So to show ourselves unconditional love, we need to take care of ourselves unconditionally, which sometimes means removing people we may love from our lives, not for their own good but for ours.  I will always love my ex, although her behaviors make it necessary to keep her entirely out of my life, and I'm good with that, it works.
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2015, 06:21:53 PM »

This is an interesting discussion. My therapist keeps telling me that I love my ex unconditionally. He says thats a good thing. I keep saying well I must not because I refused to be in that situation anymore. The therapist replied that I love him unconditionally but that doesn't mean I allow him to treat me poorly without consequence. I am trying to wrap my head around that idea. I do love my ex still. I do not accept his abuse. I never did. I called him on it regularly. That is one of the big reasons he would dysregulate, being called on his actions/choices. I guess I love him unconditionally but don't like his choices so I choose not to live with them. This concept makes my head ache. 

I love my FOO but I am distanced from them because their choices are hurtful to me. IT makes me sad that we don't have a better relationship but I accept that they are unable to see the harm they do so I have to protect myself. Maybe its the same with our SOs.
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2015, 06:33:59 PM »

in my life experiences unconditional love is not all about forgiveness, it's not about tolerance, it's not all about what I can do for you, it's not about what you can do for me, it's about A long-term investment and being selfless and only wanting The best possible outcome for everybody involved.

Nice Targeted! 

And how that can apply to us is we can love someone unconditionally while concurrently loving ourselves unconditionally.  So to show ourselves unconditional love, we need to take care of ourselves unconditionally, which sometimes means removing people we may love from our lives, not for their own good but for ours.  I will always love my ex, although her behaviors make it necessary to keep her entirely out of my life, and I'm good with that, it works.

Right, and this is only my opinion but when you throw somebody out, when you unconditionally love them enough to want better for them and all the love that you can give them is doing nothing more than enabling a problem and you resort to believing in what love really means,? It does mean wanting the betterment of everybody does not? Yourself included!  you have no choice but to be no longer a part of the problem, and just like I explained in my fathers situation! We know how to Love, we actually care and love unconditionally, we will look at this as a problem and it can be overcome, we can forgive, we do not see a piece of ass and we are getting our physical needs are met! We see the big picture! It is just a shame this disorder produces tunnel vision as well!  The flipside to the coin is unconditional love worked with my father, The reason why it did is because in his core he had it too, there was just a problem, not everybody has that!  If there is a core base of love you will know! It is a 50-50, either love wins or the problem!
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2015, 06:40:27 PM »

I don't think that there is something like unconditional romantic love.  We are loved - and we want to be loved - because we are the person we are. We don't want to be loved, just for the raw fact that we exist. It has something to do with us and who we are.

And that's the problem when we get into a relationship with a pwBPD. We are not loved, because we are the person, who we are, we are loved (or idealised) because we satisfy the needs of another person. But this needs have nothing to to with the person we are or want to be. We can't grow in this relationship, we only have to give and give more and more of ourselves.
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2015, 06:42:41 PM »

Excerpt
I guess I love him unconditionally but don't like his choices so I choose not to live with them.

Is it possible to love the person but not the behaviors, separate the two?  I love my mother by I don't like her very much, and somehow that fits and is OK with me.

Excerpt
The flipside to the coin is unconditional love worked with my father, The reason why it did is because in his core he had it too, there was just a problem, not everybody has that!

My ex, and I say borderlines in general, have the ability to love and want love and intimacy badly, unlike sociopaths who can't.  The problem with BPD is the closer a borderline gets to what they want, the more the disorder flairs up, and off into the dysfunction trying to cope we go.  That is incredibly sad if you think about it; you know what you want, you can see it, but the closer you get the more it hurts to go there.  That's worse than just not feeling it at all.
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2015, 07:11:11 PM »

I don't mean to be a ':)ebbie downer' or throw a monkeywrench into this whole thing, but... .

did we really love them?

what exactly did we fall in love with?

did we actually love them, or did we fall in love with how they made us feel?

while we were 'falling in love', we were being wined, dined, sexed, adored, idolized, and... .fooled.

did you actually love your ex, the personality and the character of that other person?

or did we simply fall in love with the seduction of our, non's, personality and character?

I read a lot of comments and posts about how we would very much like to help our exes... .I contemplated this idea a GREAT deal post-breakup and came to the harsh realization, that all I really wanted was that person I met at the beginning to come back and anoint me king of the world again... .why?  because I couldn't do that for myself! 

the need for unconditional love was one I needed to fulfill for myself... .and achieving that is the goal of no contact, therapy, this site, and recovery in general... .the gift of the relationship is learning to understand and unconditionally 'love' ourselves!   

^^my comments are rhetorical in nature, just fodder for the contemplative mind  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2015, 07:39:37 PM »

Excerpt
what exactly did we fall in love with?

I fell in love with a fantasy between my ears, that we were both responsible for creating.  The real relationship never lived up to the fantasy, yet I stayed, trying to make it, while denying to myself a difference existed.  The realization of all of that has been the biggest wake-up call ever, like What the heck was I thinking?  The denial busting has ended up being the gift of the relationship, that along with growing the fck up some so I don't ever go down that path again.
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2015, 07:42:35 PM »

I don't mean to be a ':)ebbie downer' or throw a monkeywrench into this whole thing, but... .

did we really love them?

what exactly did we fall in love with?

did we actually love them, or did we fall in love with how they made us feel?

while we were 'falling in love', we were being wined, dined, sexed, adored, idolized, and... .fooled.

did you actually love your ex, the personality and the character of that other person?

or did we simply fall in love with the seduction of our, non's, personality and character?

I read a lot of comments and posts about how we would very much like to help our exes... .I contemplated this idea a GREAT deal post-breakup and came to the harsh realization, that all I really wanted was that person I met at the beginning to come back and anoint me king of the world again... .why?  because I couldn't do that for myself! 

the need for unconditional love was one I needed to fulfill for myself... .and achieving that is the goal of no contact, therapy, this site, and recovery in general... .the gift of the relationship is learning to understand and unconditionally 'love' ourselves!   

^^my comments are rhetorical in nature, just fodder for the contemplative mind  Being cool (click to insert in post)

Wow, these are some brutally honest questions! 

Excerpt
did we actually love them, or did we fall in love with how they made us feel?

Truth is that I fell in love with the way she made me feel... .but I honestly grew to deeply love her over time. I have to be careful here though... .I fell in love with who I THOUGHT she was... .and I've come to realize that I projected things that were important to me onto her (my values, for instance). She wasn't really the person I thought she was.  I saw what I wanted to see.

I can honestly say that I thoroughly enjoyed her personality, though - we had a lot of fun together... .before things got really ___ty, I mean.
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2015, 08:18:56 PM »

I guess I love him unconditionally but don't like his choices so I choose not to live with them.

Is it possible to love the person but not the behaviors, separate the two?  I love my mother by I don't like her very much, and somehow that fits and is OK with me.

The flipside to the coin is unconditional love worked with my father, The reason why it did is because in his core he had it too, there was just a problem, not everybody has that!

My ex, and I say borderlines in general, have the ability to love and want love and intimacy badly, unlike sociopaths who can't.  The problem with BPD is the closer a borderline gets to what they want, the more the disorder flairs up, and off into the dysfunction trying to cope we go.  That is incredibly sad if you think about it; you know what you want, you can see it, but the closer you get the more it hurts to go there.  That's worse than just not feeling it at all.

What you said here is why I still can have feelings for my ex!
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2015, 08:21:30 PM »

I don't mean to be a ':)ebbie downer' or throw a monkeywrench into this whole thing, but... .

did we really love them?

what exactly did we fall in love with?

did we actually love them, or did we fall in love with how they made us feel?

while we were 'falling in love', we were being wined, dined, sexed, adored, idolized, and... .fooled.

did you actually love your ex, the personality and the character of that other person?

or did we simply fall in love with the seduction of our, non's, personality and character?

I read a lot of comments and posts about how we would very much like to help our exes... .I contemplated this idea a GREAT deal post-breakup and came to the harsh realization, that all I really wanted was that person I met at the beginning to come back and anoint me king of the world again... .why?  because I couldn't do that for myself! 

the need for unconditional love was one I needed to fulfill for myself... .and achieving that is the goal of no contact, therapy, this site, and recovery in general... .the gift of the relationship is learning to understand and unconditionally 'love' ourselves!   

^^my comments are rhetorical in nature, just fodder for the contemplative mind  Being cool (click to insert in post)

[/quot

Me? Myself? Yes!  I loved her,  hindsight is 20\20 and I know I did!
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2015, 08:39:48 PM »

Excerpt
I guess I love him unconditionally but don't like his choices so I choose not to live with them.

Is it possible to love the person but not the behaviors, separate the two?  I love my mother by I don't like her very much, and somehow that fits and is OK with me.

Excerpt
The flipside to the coin is unconditional love worked with my father, The reason why it did is because in his core he had it too, there was just a problem, not everybody has that!

My ex, and I say borderlines in general, have the ability to love and want love and intimacy badly, unlike sociopaths who can't.  The problem with BPD is the closer a borderline gets to what they want, the more the disorder flairs up, and off into the dysfunction trying to cope we go.  That is incredibly sad if you think about it; you know what you want, you can see it, but the closer you get the more it hurts to go there.  That's worse than just not feeling it at all.

What you said here is why I still can have feelings for my ex!

So do I with mine, but I've developed a greater love for myself out of necessity, and I only love the her I see under all the crap, the one she can't be sustainably, so letting her go while loving myself more sits well with me.  I guess I love who she could be except for the crap, and that makes it so there is no longing.
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2015, 09:03:14 PM »

... .I've developed a greater love for myself out of necessity, and I only love the her I see under all the crap, the one she can't be sustainably, so letting her go while loving myself more sits well with me.  I guess I love who she could be except for the crap, and that makes it so there is no longing.

How did you manage THAT? The double-mindedness is what most of us struggle with - "I don't want this chaos and pain in my life any longer" and "I love the 'her' I see under all the crap" - it's a constant battle between those two opposing impulses.  How did you solve the dichotomy?
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2015, 09:08:19 PM »

I don't mean to be a ':)ebbie downer' or throw a monkeywrench into this whole thing, but... .

did we really love them?

what exactly did we fall in love with?

did we actually love them, or did we fall in love with how they made us feel?

Truth is that I fell in love with the way she made me feel... .but I honestly grew to deeply love her over time. I have to be careful here though... .I fell in love with who I THOUGHT she was... .and I've come to realize that I projected things that were important to me onto her (my values, for instance). She wasn't really the person I thought she was.  I saw what I wanted to see.

I can honestly say that I thoroughly enjoyed her personality, though - we had a lot of fun together... .before things got really ___ty, I mean.

My experience was similar, jhkbuzz.

I was certainly in love with the way my exBPDbf made me feel. Not necessarily at the very beginning -- he actually scared me with the quick, intense attachment and idealization, and I backed quickly away after the first month. He adjusted and toned it down, and found a great balance that made me feel comfortable, respected, special, etc. I felt loved and accepted for who I was... .which is such a beautiful, fulfilling feeling.

The irony, of course, is that -- even if the pwBPD does like/love our personality -- the most important attachment for a  pwBPD is based on what need of theirs we can fulfill, not based on our individual selves.

The other irony is that we have to know, love, and accept ourselves first before we can appreciate people who do love/accept us for who we are. Otherwise we will continue to be vulnerable to false intimacy and/or toxic relationships. The good news is that this, unlike the pwBPD, is entirely within our control and power to do.

But, still... .I also love my ex as a person. I worked with him, and knew and liked him before we ever started dating, and I honestly enjoy his personality. He was open with me about his issues. We had a lot of fun together, and learned a lot from each other. Except in times of severe dysregulation, he has treated me with (his versions of) respect, compassion, and kindness.
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2015, 09:20:14 PM »

... .I've developed a greater love for myself out of necessity, and I only love the her I see under all the crap, the one she can't be sustainably, so letting her go while loving myself more sits well with me.  I guess I love who she could be except for the crap, and that makes it so there is no longing.

How did you manage THAT? The double-mindedness is what most of us struggle with - "I don't want this chaos and pain in my life any longer" and "I love the 'her' I see under all the crap" - it's a constant battle between those two opposing impulses.  How did you solve the dichotomy?

"I don't want this chaos and pain in my life" is not diametrically opposed to "I love the person 'behind' the disorder."

The truth is that, until someone with a personality disorder goes through therapy and is considered recovered, the disorder is "who they are." There's no separating the "good" and the "bad." It's the total package.

So let's try reframing and breaking it down.

I love this person.

This person has a disorder.

This person's disorder causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships.

I don't want chaos and pain in my life.

Ok, at this point, there are two possibilities to achieve your goal of a life free of chaos and pain. One is to have a relationship with the person but get rid of the disorder. The other is to not have a relationship with this person.

Obviously, the first possibility is completely out of your control. The only way for a pwBPD to be rid of the disorder is to commit to and follow through with treatment/therapy. This is not a short process. Until this has happened, that first possibility becomes null and void.

That leaves you with one possible resolution--

I love a person who has a disorder that causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships. I don't want chaos and pain in my life. Therefore, even though I love this person, I cannot have a relationship with him/her.
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2015, 09:29:05 PM »

... .I've developed a greater love for myself out of necessity, and I only love the her I see under all the crap, the one she can't be sustainably, so letting her go while loving myself more sits well with me.  I guess I love who she could be except for the crap, and that makes it so there is no longing.

How did you manage THAT? The double-mindedness is what most of us struggle with - "I don't want this chaos and pain in my life any longer" and "I love the 'her' I see under all the crap" - it's a constant battle between those two opposing impulses.  How did you solve the dichotomy?

"I don't want this chaos and pain in my life" is not diametrically opposed to "I love the person 'behind' the disorder."

The truth is that, until someone with a personality disorder goes through therapy and is considered recovered, the disorder is "who they are." There's no separating the "good" and the "bad." It's the total package.

So let's try reframing and breaking it down.

I love this person.

This person has a disorder.

This person's disorder causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships.

I don't want chaos and pain in my life.

Ok, at this point, there are two possibilities to achieve your goal of a life free of chaos and pain. One is to have a relationship with the person but get rid of the disorder. The other is to not have a relationship with this person.

Obviously, the first possibility is completely out of your control. The only way for a pwBPD to be rid of the disorder is to commit to and follow through with treatment/therapy. This is not a short process. Until this has happened, that first possibility becomes null and void.

That leaves you with one possible resolution--

I love a person who has a disorder that causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships. I don't want chaos and pain in my life. Therefore, even though I love this person, I cannot have a relationship with him/her.

I agree that decision can be made... .and I've made it. But what fromheeltoheal said was that he has "no more longing." I'm wondering how he managed THAT.
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2015, 09:50:28 PM »

... .I've developed a greater love for myself out of necessity, and I only love the her I see under all the crap, the one she can't be sustainably, so letting her go while loving myself more sits well with me.  I guess I love who she could be except for the crap, and that makes it so there is no longing.

How did you manage THAT? The double-mindedness is what most of us struggle with - "I don't want this chaos and pain in my life any longer" and "I love the 'her' I see under all the crap" - it's a constant battle between those two opposing impulses.  How did you solve the dichotomy?

"I don't want this chaos and pain in my life" is not diametrically opposed to "I love the person 'behind' the disorder."

The truth is that, until someone with a personality disorder goes through therapy and is considered recovered, the disorder is "who they are." There's no separating the "good" and the "bad." It's the total package.

So let's try reframing and breaking it down.

I love this person.

This person has a disorder.

This person's disorder causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships.

I don't want chaos and pain in my life.

Ok, at this point, there are two possibilities to achieve your goal of a life free of chaos and pain. One is to have a relationship with the person but get rid of the disorder. The other is to not have a relationship with this person.

Obviously, the first possibility is completely out of your control. The only way for a pwBPD to be rid of the disorder is to commit to and follow through with treatment/therapy. This is not a short process. Until this has happened, that first possibility becomes null and void.

That leaves you with one possible resolution--

I love a person who has a disorder that causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships. I don't want chaos and pain in my life. Therefore, even though I love this person, I cannot have a relationship with him/her.

THANKS for these words of advice.    This is the best post I have read in a long time... .I ESPECIALLY love this part:

I love this person.

This person has a disorder.

This person's disorder causes chaos and pain in intimate relationships.

I don't want chaos and pain in my life.

Ok, at this point, there are two possibilities to achieve your goal of a life free of chaos and pain. One is to have a relationship with the person but get rid of the disorder. The other is to not have a relationship with this person.
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