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Author Topic: One BPD women's perspective on "control" and "vulnerability"  (Read 6771 times)
Tim300
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2015, 03:53:15 PM »

You know, after reading the OP a few times. I realize how someone could snap and beat the hell out of a pwBPD. I'm not the type and I don't condone that type of thing. But thinking back to how I was treated, if someone had a bad temper or lack of self control. I could see them going ape $hit on a pwBPD.

I really wonder what % of DV cases are manifestations of BPD.  I hope people in DV clinics are fully aware of BPD. 
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2015, 05:04:48 PM »

You know, after reading the OP a few times. I realize how someone could snap and beat the hell out of a pwBPD. I'm not the type and I don't condone that type of thing. But thinking back to how I was treated, if someone had a bad temper or lack of self control. I could see them going ape $hit on a pwBPD.

The behavior is a total MindFvck!  Me... .I just got clinically depressed.   I turned it all on me.  LOL!  

I am sure that what you are saying happens.   It could put someone over the edge.

Infrared, I turned it on me and got depressed, too.

Of course, Munchkin-short, size-8 me trying to beat up my tall, big, muscular, seasoned-fighter exBPDbf would have been hilariously entertaining to any bystanders, I'm sure.

I really wonder what % of DV cases are manifestations of BPD.  I hope people in DV clinics are fully aware of BPD. 

Like anything, it depends. I've done a lot of work with DV clinics and shelters, and the personnel and volunteers are well-trained (and usually have mental health credentials, esp. the paid personnel), but do they necessarily know all about possible mental illnesses? No. For one, that's not their job -- crisis/trauma intervention is not in the same wheelhouse as diagnosis and therapy.

But rest assured that people who do this sort of work regularly DO know about disordered behavior. And they know that, in a lot of cases (not the majority), both partners are perpetuating the abusive cycle.
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2015, 10:40:02 PM »

After a blow out a few months before I ended it, she was calm and said, "I know we can't be together, but will you give me another chance to be with you at some point?" I said, you mean together? She said, no physically." I literally laughed. This was a great moment for me because I looked at her dead in the eyes and said. Look, despite the fact you cheated, I told you I'm not a cheater. I don't even know who I'd be dating in the future, but even without knowing her, I can tell you I'd absolutely never do that to her."  In that moment she realized how rancid her character was compared to mine. And I don't care, it's true. But she did this all out of control. She was looking for ways to connect with me in the future, and dictate my life even before any of it happened.

I  never brought up BPD or NPD (which mine had as much if not more traits than BPD) but instead, in her more lucid moments on anti anxiety medication and antidepressants, during talks I'd ask her questions about things and over time she basically confirmed every major symptom/trait without me ever feeling the need to connect the dots for her. She told me she feels vulnerable and it makes her want to push me away.

She also told me she trusted her ex more than anyone she ever met (while simultaneously) talking about how they had nothing in common, etc. And he left her. I said, he was introverted. She said, yeah. And I realized right then. He was passive. He never brought stuff up. He hated confrontation. He just went along for the ride. To someone so scared of ever opening up, how perfect is the partner who is passive as listed above? He is non threatening, and therefore she felt safe aka "trusted him so much" They slept in separate bedrooms, never had sex, she neglected him, she never paid attention to him, etc. She drove him away, out of love and he left. But she was actually happy in that relationship. And it was because she HAD NO relationship.

She also during sex had a thing for talking up scenarios where she was always in the power position. She would talk about some far off time, I was dating someone and she would want me to say, I'd leave who I was with. She also one time after sex looked at me and said, "I control this don't I" As she looked me up and down. Everything with them is about control. Moreover, it's about being in a one up position. They must have an upper edge OVER you. That's what devaluing is about. To put you in your place, and it's below them.

Things like balance, reciprocity, etc were foreign to her. Her perfect partner would be an emasculated beta male who is passive introverted and has no sex drive. Someone who she can eat dinner with, unload her moods on, and who worships her. Someone with no wants, needs or desires, who will look the other way when she cheats. Someone who will do the majority of the work, and get no credit. Someone who will mechanically please her physically and emotionally. Someone who she can make comments to and about and they will smile and take it.

It's funny, she actually said to me when I told her I was done, "You've been acting like an alpha male lately" I literally laughed. Why? Because I'm not letting you walk all over me anymore? I'm not a doormat, but I took my fair share of bs and then some. Enough. Nobody is worth this much abuse. They will kill you. The constant anxiety, fight or flight, lack of sleep, chaos, would kill a man by 50. No doubt.

I have one life. One short period on Earth. I was lucky enough to be born in a free country. Why on Earth would I voluntarily become a prisoner to her misery?

Done and Done. Good Riddance. And enjoy your next failed relationship. I'm going to move on with my life and be happy finally.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2015, 11:03:58 PM »

After a blow out a few months before I ended it, she was calm and said, "I know we can't be together, but will you give me another chance to be with you at some point?" I said, you mean together? She said, no physically." I literally laughed. This was a great moment for me because I looked at her dead in the eyes and said. Look, despite the fact you cheated, I told you I'm not a cheater. I don't even know who I'd be dating in the future, but even without knowing her, I can tell you I'd absolutely never do that to her."  In that moment she realized how rancid her character was compared to mine. And I don't care, it's true. But she did this all out of control. She was looking for ways to connect with me in the future, and dictate my life even before any of it happened.

I had one recycle and during it, I snooped her phone because I had zero trust and thought during our break up she had probably started something up.

In it, she was texting her best friend during our break up period and said she planned to "use me as a booty call" in a year or so after her feelings for me had died down.

That made me sick to my stomach.  I also wondered if she had "booty called" any exes while we were together.  I'll never know.

If she did anything nefarious, I'm betting she was smart enough to keep it to facebook, skype, google hangout, email or some other way that was more difficult to detect than phone calls or texts.  And I'll never get the truth from her.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2015, 11:17:13 PM »

Things like balance, reciprocity, etc were foreign to her. Her perfect partner would be an emasculated beta male who is passive introverted and has no sex drive. Someone who she can eat dinner with, unload her moods on, and who worships her. Someone with no wants, needs or desires, who will look the other way when she cheats. Someone who will do the majority of the work, and get no credit. Someone who will mechanically please her physically and emotionally. Someone who she can make comments to and about and they will smile and take it.

It's funny, she actually said to me when I told her I was done, "You've been acting like an alpha male lately" I literally laughed. Why? Because I'm not letting you walk all over me anymore? I'm not a doormat, but I took my fair share of bs and then some. Enough. Nobody is worth this much abuse. They will kill you. The constant anxiety, fight or flight, lack of sleep, chaos, would kill a man by 50. No doubt.

Mine wanted an alpha that she could control in a subtle way.  She was a quiet/waif type.

I found myself being more aggressive and dominant in social situations than I usually am to give her "the tingles".

She is an ex-partier that is the type to like bad boys, which I'm really not.

At one point, I was offered a better job 10 hours from her.  We would be long distance for almost a year.  She wanted me to take it because it would benefit us both financially if we were together permanently, but also I think she liked the idea of only seeing me a few times a month and then being left to her own devices otherwise.

One thing I'm glad I did after the final break was outlining all she did to abuse me (mostly lies, weird behavior that would cause most anyone insecurity/jealousy/doubt, and emotional withdraw/shutdown) and told her that no man she would respect for long would be willing to take those behaviors.  I told her she wanted a doormat but she could never be attracted to a doormat.

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hurting300
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2015, 11:40:39 PM »

Things like balance, reciprocity, etc were foreign to her. Her perfect partner would be an emasculated beta male who is passive introverted and has no sex drive. Someone who she can eat dinner with, unload her moods on, and who worships her. Someone with no wants, needs or desires, who will look the other way when she cheats. Someone who will do the majority of the work, and get no credit. Someone who will mechanically please her physically and emotionally. Someone who she can make comments to and about and they will smile and take it.

It's funny, she actually said to me when I told her I was done, "You've been acting like an alpha male lately" I literally laughed. Why? Because I'm not letting you walk all over me anymore? I'm not a doormat, but I took my fair share of bs and then some. Enough. Nobody is worth this much abuse. They will kill you. The constant anxiety, fight or flight, lack of sleep, chaos, would kill a man by 50. No doubt.

Mine wanted an alpha that she could control in a subtle way.  She was a quiet/waif type.

I found myself being more aggressive and dominant in social situations than I usually am to give her "the tingles".

She is an ex-partier that is the type to like bad boys, which I'm really not.

At one point, I was offered a better job 10 hours from her.  We would be long distance for almost a year.  She wanted me to take it because it would benefit us both financially if we were together permanently, but also I think she liked the idea of only seeing me a few times a month and then being left to her own devices otherwise.

One thing I'm glad I did after the final break was outlining all she did to abuse me (mostly lies, weird behavior that would cause most anyone insecurity/jealousy/doubt, and emotional withdraw/shutdown) and told her that no man she would respect for long would be willing to take those behaviors.  I told her she wanted a doormat but she could never be attracted to a doormat.

see that's how mine was, she abused me with weird behaviors, lies and  controlling me. I would've gladly welcomed being cursed and yelled at because at least I could have caught on.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2015, 11:50:44 PM »

see that's how mine was, she abused me with weird behaviors, lies and  controlling me. I would've gladly welcomed being cursed and yelled at because at least I could have caught on.

I've heard the quiet/waif type are dangerous because they can hide in plain sight.  You really think you could trust them and that they are somewhat stable.

Also, it means that I can't identify with many of the more overt behaviors others here outline.

Heck, if she and I lived together, I'm nearly certain she would do something crazy like take my dog to the pound out of state and then claim he slipped his collar and then ran into the woods. 

There is a reason why predictability and ability to "know the internal space" of another is a requisite for real trust.  Think of a car.  Would you trust an unpredictable car with internal designs of which you had no clue?

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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2015, 12:05:45 AM »

Mine was a waif... .there were some very subtle signs but for the duration of our relationship, I just thought that she had some 'quirks' (outside strange breakup episodes that I later came to know as 'recycles'... .she internalized things... .she NEVER complained or shared her deep inner thoughts... .there were no arguments or fights to speak of... .everything was placid and moving forward... .then she disappeared ... .I would have preferred some tumult; I would have seen this coming.
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2015, 12:15:22 AM »

Mine was a waif... .there were some very subtle signs but for the duration of our relationship, I just thought that she had some 'quirks' (outside strange breakup episodes that I later came to know as 'recycles'... .she internalized things... .she NEVER complained or shared her deep inner thoughts... .there were no arguments or fights to speak of... .everything was placid and moving forward... .then she disappeared ... .I would have preferred some tumult; I would have seen this coming.

Yes... .mine was the same... .quiet but apparently building this raging resentment... .then the cheating... .
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raisins3142
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2015, 12:16:35 AM »

Mine was a waif... .there were some very subtle signs but for the duration of our relationship, I just thought that she had some 'quirks' (outside strange breakup episodes that I later came to know as 'recycles'... .she internalized things... .she NEVER complained or shared her deep inner thoughts... .there were no arguments or fights to speak of... .everything was placid and moving forward... .then she disappeared ... .I would have preferred some tumult; I would have seen this coming.

Unless you have evidence of cheating, etc., I think it is hard to be the one to break up with a quiet/waif.

She was just continuously, mildly dishonest, obviously overly flirty, overly private/defensive, would dramatically withdraw to the point where I felt like a rapist if I wanted to hold her hand, and with tons of weirdness and things about her past that were bad, most of which she would not detail/share.

So, I had no definite "you are a cheater and rage at me" signs... .I just knew something was very, very off and I'd ignored my gut for too long.  That was my internal struggle, my gut was saying "put on your Nikes and run away from this girl until you hit an ocean" but I could not pin down HUGE dealbreakers... .and I looked at her and it was like leaving a scared rabbit in the corner of the pet store.

Also, I hadn't been 'in love" for a long time, and my relationship prospects were not looking good (living in a garage apartment behind my parents, working as a college prof, and paying down massive student loans).  I'm nearly certain my mi-20s self would have not gotten involved with her past initial red flags popping because I had tons of options and time to look around.
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« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2015, 12:43:41 AM »

Mine felt very natural... .I didn't have the the instinct to run... .in fact, we were engaged and she just moved in... .interesting: mine always wanted to hold hands even when I was driving the car ... .it was odd sometimes ... .and she never really flirted with anyone... .its interesting how they are all different.
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hurting300
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« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2015, 12:55:29 AM »

Well like others have said they are individuals, but gosh all of our stories are basically the same.
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« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2015, 01:22:40 PM »

Control... .Dang, I remember her talking about control but I can't remember the specifics of it. Something about hating not being in control of something, I think. Wish I remembered.

She controlled me, though. That's for sure.
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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2015, 02:06:10 PM »

Mine liked to be in a certain amount of control but I didn't feel controlled... .maybe the better word was environment of predictability... .interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not shure it hat has any BPD meaning at all.
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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2015, 02:30:40 PM »

I think that when you look at the makeup of a pwBPD and see their lack of self and their fears of abandonment etc. it's easy to see how much of the overt or covert controlling they do is from what they see as "self-protection." Even if it's a twisted version that causes extreme pain to their SO and family.

My uBPDh always regretted any time where he'd been vulnerable enough to admit to being responsible for his mean behavior.
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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2015, 02:38:32 PM »

I think that when you look at the makeup of a pwBPD and see their lack of self and their fears of abandonment etc. it's easy to see how much of the overt or covert controlling they do is from what they see as "self-protection."

I agree, Elpis.

interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not shure it hat has any BPD meaning at all.

A pwBPD has no stable sense of self. So they attach best in relationships where the other person has ideas of reference for the pwBPD. This way, the pwBPD knows what is "expected" and can adapt accordingly, in their never-ending search for a self.

In an attempt to survive defective self-object experiences, empathic failures, lack of validation, and insufficient attunement of significant others to needs to the self, the borderline submits to expectations from the environment and his/her self-concept becomes dominated by projective and invalid representations of the self.

-Carsten Rene Jorgensen, PhD, ":)isturbed Sense of Identity in Borderline Personality Disorder"


Member 2010 discusses this tendency of BPDs, especially waifs, a lot. A couple of helpful excerpts--

The easiest and most life-affirming connection [pwBPD] make is with people who put them in "one-down" positions. Those are the rescuers, saviors, and white knights, as well as the voice hogs and the self-centered.

The compulsion for a waif is to serve another person and attach to them for survival. When this servitude is praised, the pwBPD feels somewhat conflicted, as the feel-good quality of pleasing the other person soon turns into a distorted perception of captivity and bondage. Scapegoating and blame are projected at the partner.

Waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant (usually "rescuers". The borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme and equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of taskmaster and the borderline a reasonable "out" based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference (Punitive Parent).
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fromheeltoheal
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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2015, 02:59:17 PM »

Excerpt
interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not sure it that has any BPD meaning at all.

Women expect men to do that initially in a relationship; it's at least a subconscious desire to be protected, a man's job evolutionarily.  And then, as the relationship progresses and a 50/50 partnership is formed, who does what and what roles each partner fulfills develop between them.  It's up to us to notice if a woman is letting a man be a man or is looking to play the perpetual child and stay in the 'one-down' position forever, which has it's own control tactics.  There's not much room for control in a healthy relationship.
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JRT
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2015, 04:11:02 PM »

I think that when you look at the makeup of a pwBPD and see their lack of self and their fears of abandonment etc. it's easy to see how much of the overt or covert controlling they do is from what they see as "self-protection."

I agree, Elpis.

interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not shure it hat has any BPD meaning at all.

A pwBPD has no stable sense of self. So they attach best in relationships where the other person has ideas of reference for the pwBPD. This way, the pwBPD knows what is "expected" and can adapt accordingly, in their never-ending search for a self.

In an attempt to survive defective self-object experiences, empathic failures, lack of validation, and insufficient attunement of significant others to needs to the self, the borderline submits to expectations from the environment and his/her self-concept becomes dominated by projective and invalid representations of the self.

-Carsten Rene Jorgensen, PhD, ":)isturbed Sense of Identity in Borderline Personality Disorder"


Member 2010 discusses this tendency of BPDs, especially waifs, a lot. A couple of helpful excerpts--

The easiest and most life-affirming connection [pwBPD] make is with people who put them in "one-down" positions. Those are the rescuers, saviors, and white knights, as well as the voice hogs and the self-centered.

The compulsion for a waif is to serve another person and attach to them for survival. When this servitude is praised, the pwBPD feels somewhat conflicted, as the feel-good quality of pleasing the other person soon turns into a distorted perception of captivity and bondage. Scapegoating and blame are projected at the partner.

Waifs will attach to those they perceive to be dominant (usually "rescuers". The borderline then cries foul when their submissiveness becomes so extreme and equality in the relationship is so askew that it gives the partner an appearance of taskmaster and the borderline a reasonable "out" based on their inner persecutorial ideas of reference (Punitive Parent).

This makes complete sense in my case... .I AM a rescuer and she is a waif... .I would imagine that by extension, if I ever were given a chance to ask her what her problem is with me, she might venture to say that she felt subservient to me? That she was in captivity? I imagine that her smear campaign would reflect the same?
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« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2015, 04:12:45 PM »

interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not sure it that has any BPD meaning at all.

Women expect men to do that initially in a relationship; it's at least a subconscious desire to be protected, a man's job evolutionarily.  And then, as the relationship progresses and a 50/50 partnership is formed, who does what and what roles each partner fulfills develop between them.  It's up to us to notice if a woman is letting a man be a man or is looking to play the perpetual child and stay in the 'one-down' position forever, which has it's own control tactics.  There's not much room for control in a healthy relationship.

What is meant by a 'one down' position?
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« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2015, 04:35:41 PM »

Excerpt
interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not sure it that has any BPD meaning at all.

Women expect men to do that initially in a relationship; it's at least a subconscious desire to be protected, a man's job evolutionarily.  And then, as the relationship progresses and a 50/50 partnership is formed, who does what and what roles each partner fulfills develop between them.  It's up to us to notice if a woman is letting a man be a man or is looking to play the perpetual child and stay in the 'one-down' position forever, which has it's own control tactics.  There's not much room for control in a healthy relationship.

What is meant by a 'one down' position?

In the dynamics of relationship, one partner can be superior, dominant, entitled, in control, which is termed the 'one-up' position, and the other partner can be inferior, subordinate, submissive, and controlled, termed the 'one-down' position.  That dynamic shows up everywhere with humans, our first exposure being with our parents, who are in the one-up position and we're in the one-down, they're in control, which we actually need as children because they are also providing security and direction.

In a healthy, adult relationship each partner has different strengths, she handles the finances and he changes the oil in the car for example, and that happens in the bedroom too, one partner may be dominant and the other submissive sexually, and that works for both of them.  But in a healthy relationship there's a balance, an overall 50/50 split to the relationship dynamic.  If someone is or insists on being in the one-down position all the time it leads to problems, but it also has benefits, like the one-down partner doesn't have to take responsibility for anything, yet they can control the other partner with their needs.  Every relationship has a little of that, but when the focus is on control and an unequal partnership all the time, it's not healthy.
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« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2015, 04:59:53 PM »

Hmmmmm... .as I am considering my own relationship with my BPD, I am wondering if there was that balance or is she was in a one down position... .its odd, because I cannot answer that... .her needs came first for sure as they were almost always wrapped in a crisis sot they HAD to receive full attention at the expense of anything else... .phone conversations were usually a query from her about my day; a chance for me to vent my day out to her as she pretended to act as if she was concerned and was listening. It was really just a polite ruse where she waited for me to clear my plate so that her concerns and problems were fully attended to (usually her son or work - perpetual crises).

Its funny, I gave her a lot of slack and really tried to allow her to be her. But it was notable that she wanted to lean my family's language, wanted to learn my hobbies and interests, wanted to come to my kind of concerts and so on (all of which never really materialized at all). I wonder if in reality, she really knew what she was doing when it comes to all of these things and did what she did to keep me at bay until the time came when I was no longer of value to her. It makes me question if accepting my wedding proposal was also a way of delaying the inevitable just so that she could get more of the fix that she needed until it was sucked dry from me.
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« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2015, 05:23:51 PM »

Hmmmmm... .as I am considering my own relationship with my BPD, I am wondering if there was that balance or is she was in a one down position... .its odd, because I cannot answer that... .her needs came first for sure as they were almost always wrapped in a crisis sot they HAD to receive full attention at the expense of anything else... .phone conversations were usually a query from her about my day; a chance for me to vent my day out to her as she pretended to act as if she was concerned and was listening. It was really just a polite ruse where she waited for me to clear my plate so that her concerns and problems were fully attended to (usually her son or work - perpetual crises).

Its funny, I gave her a lot of slack and really tried to allow her to be her. But it was notable that she wanted to lean my family's language, wanted to learn my hobbies and interests, wanted to come to my kind of concerts and so on (all of which never really materialized at all). I wonder if in reality, she really knew what she was doing when it comes to all of these things and did what she did to keep me at bay until the time came when I was no longer of value to her. It makes me question if accepting my wedding proposal was also a way of delaying the inevitable just so that she could get more of the fix that she needed until it was sucked dry from me.

I'm careful about giving borderlines too much credit; some are malicious and have a diabolical plan, no doubt, but I say most are just bouncing through life like a tumbleweed in a tornado, which is why there's continual chaos.  One thing that is the norm is a desire, a need, to control the relationship, the emotional distance between a borderline and their partner: that is a way to deal with the constant opposing forces of fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment; if the partner is being controlled and is not autonomous, they have no way of upsetting that precarious balance.  There's multiple ways to control too: a Queen borderline does it with outright aggression, a Waif borderline does it with their needs, but the desire to control is the constant.  My ex did what yours did; she always accused me of not listening, while not taking any interest in what I said or what was going on with me, the self-centered behavior of someone in continual pain.
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« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2015, 07:00:24 PM »

interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not sure it that has any BPD meaning at all.

Women expect men to do that initially in a relationship; it's at least a subconscious desire to be protected, a man's job evolutionarily.  And then, as the relationship progresses and a 50/50 partnership is formed, who does what and what roles each partner fulfills develop between them.  It's up to us to notice if a woman is letting a man be a man or is looking to play the perpetual child and stay in the 'one-down' position forever, which has it's own control tactics.  There's not much room for control in a healthy relationship.

I don't necessarily agree that all women expect men to "take charge" initially in a relationship. People are individuals, despite our evolutionary biology, and therefore place value on different things.

The pwBPD isn't necessarily presenting him- or herself in a "one-down" to begin with. That's the position that the partner puts them in, whether by rescuing/fixing behaviors or through more "overt" dominance and control (like with a NPD). They will happily stay there for a while, but a pwBPD doesn't stay "one-down" forever -- by the time the r/s implodes, the roles have switched, leaving the pwBPD one-up to the partner.
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« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2015, 07:26:57 PM »

Excerpt
interestingly, she really liked it when a man took charge of a situation or was a 'take charge' sort of individual... .not sure it that has any BPD meaning at all.

Women expect men to do that initially in a relationship; it's at least a subconscious desire to be protected, a man's job evolutionarily.  And then, as the relationship progresses and a 50/50 partnership is formed, who does what and what roles each partner fulfills develop between them.  It's up to us to notice if a woman is letting a man be a man or is looking to play the perpetual child and stay in the 'one-down' position forever, which has it's own control tactics.  There's not much room for control in a healthy relationship.

I don't necessarily agree that all women expect men to "take charge" initially in a relationship. People are individuals, despite our evolutionary biology, and therefore place value on different things.

The pwBPD isn't necessarily presenting him- or herself in a "one-down" to begin with. That's the position that the partner puts them in, whether by rescuing/fixing behaviors or through more "overt" dominance and control (like with a NPD). They will happily stay there for a while, but a pwBPD doesn't stay "one-down" forever -- by the time the r/s implodes, the roles have switched, leaving the pwBPD one-up to the partner.

Yes, I was referring to relationships in general and not necessarily borderlines, but you're right, the dynamic that forms is the creation of the two people involved.  Also, it's more clear to say masculine and feminine, not male and female, since we all have both energies.
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« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2015, 07:32:30 PM »

The girl I was dating was an uBPD, who I initially thought was an NPD. Through the help of some friends whose perplexed faces of shock in what I told them stories, I was encouraged to go to a counselor who helped me understand these terms.

I read everything I could about validation, baiting, triggers, etc. I tried everything I could do to somehow co-exist with her(and her behavior) I got her talking about things because I didn't judge her in this phase (before her destructive behaviors began) And without ever coming out and mentioning either condition, but rather the "symptoms" she admitted to them all, almost like a checklist.

When things got really bad, I used her periods of shunning me, to my advantage by emotionally detaching, finding activities and rekindling friendships that she basically isolated me from. (She would get mad if my friends called me, and once said, why do you need other friends? we're best friends... .)

I don't know if it's her, or the condition, but as time went on she always pushed the envelope further and further. Demanding more, expecting less, creating chaos, blaming me, ignoring me after picking a fight and refusing to ever admit fault or apologize for her role, instead telling me how "I need a guy who will do this or that" vs. I'm sorry. Within days I was "perfect" again.

She always sought out a one up position. If someone complimented me "Your boyfriend is so sweet. He's good to you., etc) I can't explain it, but she'd look over at me with this "look" and smile.  Within a day, she would make undermining comments, or pick a fight. I read somewhere (and it was totally accurate) they don't want you to feel good about yourself. That's exactly what vibe I got in these situations. Always wanted me to be off kilt. Unsure, and chasing.

I told her how much it hurt me when she'd "disappear" I told her how hard I was trying to be a part of her and her son's life (exactly what she wanted so badly in the beginning) and she'd have these periods where it was like she kept him from me just to hurt me. Weeks. We'd go from spending time together, dinners, etc. It was almost like she was saying to me, I know you love him, but he's mine and because you love him, I'm not going to let you be around him because I know it will hurt you.

Anyway, I drew a line in my mind that she crossed so many times. The final "shunning" I was prepared to walk. When it lasted longer than normal, I sent a text that basically said goodbye, changed my number and haven't seen her in 2 weeks. She went crazy. Showed up at my house pleading, but I held my ground.

I agree they may WANT us in a one down position, but it doesn't ALWAYS end up that way. It just depends how much/little self respect you have, where your "line" is and how you react when crossed, and the level of denial you live in.

I don't look at my situation as ha ha I won! I think the whole thing is pathetic and sad. I'm just very thankful, I salvaged my dignity and was able to hold a boundary firm finally. It's been the difference of getting over this quickly vs. all the extra layers of hurt/shock/anger that would have existed if I had continued giving giving and giving and been screwed over. Which I have no doubt was coming.  

She took me for granted, and she thought I was perfectly conditioned to do that. She thought she was getting me good. A solid silent treatment punishment. But I actually am the one who blind sided her, because I dumped her and shut her out when she "decided" my punishment was over, she had nobody to come back to.

Good riddance. Toxic. Just writing it makes me want to take a shower in holy water.
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« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2015, 11:05:30 PM »

the dynamic that forms is the creation of the two people involved.  

So true.

In the case of borderline relationships, if we weren't projecting a false self that the pwBPD wanted/needed, then he/she wouldn't have attached in the first place. And this dynamic is where a lot of our truths lie.

Also, it's more clear to say masculine and feminine, not male and female, since we all have both energies.

In those terms, then yes, I definitely agree. I'm more feminine in r/s's, so I personally am drawn to a more "dominant" male. But some women are more masculine, and some men more feminine... .and as long as we find a healthy yin to our yang (or vice versa), it's all good. Smiling (click to insert in post)

I agree they may WANT us in a one down position, but it doesn't ALWAYS end up that way. It just depends how much/little self respect you have, where your "line" is and how you react when crossed, and the level of denial you live in.

Once you have been pushed off your pedestal, you are in a one-down position to the pwBPD.

Once you see that your encouragement, love, understanding, gentle guidance, and/or rescuing are not only not having the intended effects but are actually being used against you. The object of your good intentions is now your persecutor, and you have become the victim.
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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2015, 12:12:24 AM »

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