From black to white, does anything prompt it?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So we have been painted black. Most of what I have learned about here and elsewhere indicates that you remain that way until their needs are no longer being met by a replacement of some kind (I am triangulated with her son as I have learned that the third person doesn't necessarily need to be a romantic interest). Is that all that there is to it or are there any other influences? Say for example; progress with a therapist? An realization after meditating on the relationship?

I think that it would be great if we had a resident BPD on staff to ask these questions!

[JRT]

So we have been painted black. Most of what I have learned about here and elsewhere indicates that you remain that way until their needs are no longer being met by a replacement of some kind (I am triangulated with her son as I have learned that the third person doesn't necessarily need to be a romantic interest). Is that all that there is to it or are there any other influences? Say for example; progress with a therapist? An realization after meditating on the relationship?

I think that it would be great if we had a resident BPD on staff to ask these questions!

[FoolishMan]

So we have been painted black. Most of what I have learned about here and elsewhere indicates that you remain that way until their needs are no longer being met by a replacement of some kind (I am triangulated with her son as I have learned that the third person doesn't necessarily need to be a romantic interest). Is that all that there is to it or are there any other influences? Say for example; progress with a therapist? An realization after meditating on the relationship?

I think that it would be great if we had a resident BPD on staff to ask these questions!

A resident BPD? Would you be able to trust the answers to your questions?

If you want to be split white, wait it out. I don't think you can do anything to expedite the process except leave them alone. My ex tried to come back after I was tarred and feathered with black paint. She stopped trying couple of months ago. I started ruminating a week after she stopped. My pain started again. NC is the best way for me to deal with her.

Remember to be split white means that you have a stay of execution, for it is certain you will go back to black and at a time that couldn't be worse for you. Birthday, at the alter, Christmas time etc

[SlyQQ]

I would not trust what bPD say to much even when they think they are telling the truth either My guess is to be split black it requires both the abandoment trigger and an anger trigger the abandoment reducing you to zero an the anger unleashing there pent up ire to be split white though it is unclear this may have nothing to do with your actions BPD have very jumbled time lines allowing them to slip you back into the white category fairly easily ( if you have been replaced a simple transgression by her partner might acomplish this )

[Hazelrah]

I think that it would be great if we had a resident BPD on staff to ask these questions!

It certainly makes sense to want that point of view.  However, board moderators prefer to direct actual BPD sufferers to more appropriate forums, for their (the pwBPD) own benefit.  The tone of some threads could be severe triggers for them, and if they are actually in the process of treatment, this probably wouldn't be the best place to receive the type of support that they need.

[JRT]

I can see why that would be the case... .many/most of us on here are really hurt and pissed off about it... .I have searched for boards that explain life from hte perspective of a BPD sufferer and have not really found any that are coherent as I would like to see... .know of any that are particularly well put together?

[BlackHoleSun]

Hey JRT! Not sure what you mean by Triangulation. Here's the definition... .

Triangulation (psychology) Triangulation is a situation in which one family member will not communicate directly with another family member, but will communicate with a third family member, which can lead to the third family member becoming part of the triangle.

So is your exGF now communicating with you through her son? Or do you mean that you feel you've been replaced by her son (this is highly unlikely)?

In answer to the thread title... .with their black and white thinking, people with BPD tend to either "love" you or hate you. Basically idealize or devalue you. You can be seen as either "all good" (white) or all bad (black). It tends to be that you're initially painted black when you let a person with BPD down in some way.

You can also read that to mean they either need you or they don't. When they don't need you, it usually means they have someone else meeting their needs (as i say its highly unlikely to be a son/daughter though, never heard of that before related to BPD), so you'll stay painted black. When their needs aren't being met and they can't find anyone to meet those needs then, there's a chance they may return to you in order to get their needs met.

So, as i've said before, its all about them. There's nothing you can do to make them come back or change the way they feel. Which, when you think about it, is just how it is with anybody else!

Did you have a look into NPD, as they also devalue and discard and could gain their Narcissistic supply from a son/daughter. It could be that your ex is NPD rather than BPD!

[Skip]

I think that it would be great if we had a resident BPD on staff to ask these questions!

JRT, I have two Golden Retrievers that are more statistically more alike than any two people with BPD traits and I can't predict ones behavior based on the other.

And we do have "BPD educators" here.  Marsha Linehan (who was BPD) is the originator of most of the principals taught here.  

Be careful not to by into the Internet lore that they are all human robots... .you'll never figure this out.

Think of her as any women.  Can we predict if they will have a change of heart?  Not easily reliably.  A person with BPD is the same, just more impulsive.

Here is some info on triangulation:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.0

[JRT]

(2) a stable pair can also be destabilized by the removal of the third person (an example would be a child leaving home and no longer available for triangulation);


Interesting... .all was going smoothly with us... she has only moved in three weeks earlier while her son moved in with his step father... .he definitely became the odd man out as the article describes... .she rage against his immature and other antics (he was a dysfunctional mess) to the point that I felt sorry for him.

So does this argue correctly that the removal of him from the triangle was enough to destabilize the relationship to the extent that she she left our relationship?

[drummerboy]

I don't know if this qualifies as triangulation but here's what happened to me. My ex was already in a r/s when we started. I don't think they were emotionally very close, it didn't seem like it was any big deal for her to end that r/s because I was the "man she had waited her whole life for" he was a bit of a doormat and totally co-dependent. Before she met me, my ex was in constant communication with her mom, we are talking 2-4 hours of conversations every day. As soon as the idealisation phase started it was me that was getting the 2-4 hours of phone calls every day about every last little detail of her life. She stopped calling her mom in fact she said to me "this is unheard of for me not to call my mom for hours everyday"

Now that I think about it I'm pretty sure of the things I said that would have started to trigger her. She had always had enablers around her, people that excused for self absorbed behaviour on her mental condition (10 years of T and meds for severe anxiety and severe depression) Her enablers never called her on her behaviour but instead just gave her sympathy. I was possibly the first person that expected her to stand on her own two feet and behave like an adult. I recall one time towards the end when she was back calling her mom constantly, I listened to her end of the conversation and after it was over I remarked that "you just talk about yourself whenever you call your mom, do you ever ask her how she is doing and just listen to her (her mum had some health problems) my ex's response was not nice to say the least. Another time she was talking about herself to me on the phone and I said something like, "hey, you're just another sh&t kicker like the rest of us, stop feeling like you are the only person in this world that matters" She went ballistic! So basically, mine had no time or use for anyone that wasn't going to give her bucket loads of sympathy.

I think I was painted ultra black because she genuinely thought I was the man of her dreams but I had a few problems, namely that I was not going to be her enabler and was going to expect her to start working towards her standing on her own two feet as an adult and that was not part of her plan at all. I think she was devastated when she realised I was not going to be her enabler-in-chief!

[JRT]

I wish that I could say one way or the next... .check out that link above... .

So what happened to your r/s?

[hurting300]

If you want to know truly what will happen in the future with her you will need to investigate her past. Find out how she broke up with her exes and what happened then? Did she discard them all? Did she keep them on the back burner until she needed them? It is true that someone with BPD is not the same as the next, however they all have about the same behavior patterns. Everyone has a pattern to which they stick too. Find her pattern and you will find your answer.

[Hawk Ridge]

"Enabler-in-chief!"  Love it -keeping it - working on not applying for that job for anyone again.  Thanks!

[eyvindr]

drummerboy -- thanks for sharing. Very similar to the arc that my r-ship took.

Now that I think about it I'm pretty sure of the things I said that would have started to trigger her. She had always had enablers around her, people that excused for self absorbed behaviour on her mental condition (10 years of T and meds for severe anxiety and severe depression) Her enablers never called her on her behaviour but instead just gave her sympathy. I was possibly the first person that expected her to stand on her own two feet and behave like an adult... .

I think I was painted ultra black because she genuinely thought I was the man of her dreams but I had a few problems, namely that I was not going to be her enabler and was going to expect her to start working towards her standing on her own two feet as an adult and that was not part of her plan at all. I think she was devastated when she realised I was not going to be her enabler-in-chief!

So familiar to my experience. I totally think my "attitudes" about independence, free will, accountability and maturity are what most triggered my ex's dysregulation. I was very clear about what I thought was BS self-centered behavior, and I flat out told her I wasn't impressed by it, didn't respect it and had no intention of supporting it -- in anyone, including her. This led her to label me as "non-committal," "unsupportive," "emotionally distant," "clueless about how real relationships work" and even "abusive."

In short, my failure to stick to her game plan made me a "loose cannon" -- so she redoubled her efforts to try to control me and convert me to her way of thinking. Of course, she couldn't -- and it caused her no end of (pointless) frustration, worry, insecurity -- and sure didn't help the r-ship because is essentially made me a "threat" instead of a partner, which triggered the abandonment crap and wheeeeeeee!-here-we-go-again.

In my ex's case, the enablers were her FOO and her second ex-husband. None of them excused her behaviors -- in their case, they were 100% driven by F.O.G. Her parents and her ex are all completely enmeshed -- none of them seem to like her, though they claim to love her, and they all claim to be motivated out of concern for her D8. The only thing that makes any sense to me would be if there was some serious childhood neglect or abuse in her past, and her parents are attempting to make up for it by overcompensating as caring grandparents. And her ex-H obviously loves and cares for their daughter -- I always gave him credit for trying to stay involved, despite being treated like hired help, not to mention that when my ex divorced him, she managed to get a court to agree to no more than supervised visitation for him, claiming that he had Munchausen's by Proxy syndrome! I've met the guy, but never had a very involved conversation with him -- seems kind of hapless to me, but he very well could still be in love with her. Who knows. She's been posting lately that they've reconciled and are planning to remarry -- but I have no idea if that's true or her latest bizarre attempt to "wake me up" so I come begging back. It's weird, at best.

[JRT]

If you want to know truly what will happen in the future with her you will need to investigate her past. Find out how she broke up with her exes and what happened then? Did she discard them all? Did she keep them on the back burner until she needed them? It is true that someone with BPD is not the same as the next, however they all have about the same behavior patterns. Everyone has a pattern to which they stick too. Find her pattern and you will find your answer.

Two ex's were completely discarded (one was a long distance relationship so I am not sure if that one counts)... .one ex remained in the loop but he acted as father to her son... .on earlier recycles she always came back, there were six or so... .inconclusive?

[hurting300]

If you want to know truly what will happen in the future with her you will need to investigate her past. Find out how she broke up with her exes and what happened then? Did she discard them all? Did she keep them on the back burner until she needed them? It is true that someone with BPD is not the same as the next, however they all have about the same behavior patterns. Everyone has a pattern to which they stick too. Find her pattern and you will find your answer.

Two ex's were completely discarded (one was a long distance relationship so I am not sure if that one counts)... .one ex remained in the loop but he acted as father to her son... .on earlier recycles she always came back, there were six or so... .inconclusive?

you had six recycles? If that's true, then please work on yourself. You are so much better than that.

[JRT]

I wouldn't go as far... .6 recycles seems to be not uncommon from references I have seen here... .at the same time, I had no idea until the last event that BPD was even involved until I finally went digging... .I figured that it was just an odd personality quirk that I was convinced was nipped in the bud after the last one: the duration went from 2 weeks to a couple of hours on that one and all was perfectly harmonious for around 9 months or so... .then BOOM! The big one.

[Hazelrah]

you had six recycles? If that's true, then please work on yourself. You are so much better than that.

I wouldn't go as far... .6 recycles seems to be not uncommon from references I have seen here... .

JRT, I think you might be missing specifically what Hurting300 was trying to say.  Part of the reason so many relationships involving a pwBPD go through such turmoil (including numerous recycles) is the fact that we, the 'nons', play our own equal part in the dysfunction. 

It says something about us when we continually let a person back in to our life that will regularly discard us when the inner workings of their disorder lead them to do so.  We can't control what they do -- but we do have the power to look at ourselves and start asking why we'd ever allow someone to repeatedly treat us this way.  That behavior says something very important about US... .and it isn't simply limited to our dogged determination to make something so obviously complicated work.  It's a lot deeper than that.

[JRT]

It IS a lot more complicated than that... .mine was not the standard type of BPD relationship with a great degree of raging, abuse, lies and stress. Matter of fact, we never argued at all nor disagreed. It was a fairly placid relationship. Frankly, I was damned happy. Back when these recycles happened, I never knew anything about BPD or had any kind of inclination what was driving her behavior in this regard. I think that no one would think any less of me for thinking that it was just a quirk.

The duration of the recycles had diminished to the point where the last one was only a couple of hours. We went 9 months without incident and it was easy for me to conclude that this tendency for her to run when things got too hot for her was something that she just needed to get out of her blood and she thought the same thing. It wasn't until the last breakup that I went digging and found myself here very squarely.

So yeah. My biggest mistake was not holding her to seeing a therapist when on return from her recycles, she had very clearly told me that she 'needed to see somebody'. There were other pleas for help along the way as well but one would have had to go looking for them in order to have recognized them for what they were. Bu I don't think that I went too far in allowing some of the outrageous behavior that I read about here in a daily basis.

[hurting300]

It IS a lot more complicated than that... .mine was not the standard type of BPD relationship with a great degree of raging, abuse, lies and stress. Matter of fact, we never argued at all nor disagreed. It was a fairly placid relationship. Frankly, I was damned happy. Back when these recycles happened, I never knew anything about BPD or had any kind of inclination what was driving her behavior in this regard. I think that no one would think any less of me for thinking that it was just a quirk.

The duration of the recycles had diminished to the point where the last one was only a couple of hours. We went 9 months without incident and it was easy for me to conclude that this tendency for her to run when things got too hot for her was something that she just needed to get out of her blood and she thought the same thing. It wasn't until the last breakup that I went digging and found myself here very squarely.

So yeah. My biggest mistake was not holding her to seeing a therapist when on return from her recycles, she had very clearly told me that she 'needed to see somebody'. There were other pleas for help along the way as well but one would have had to go looking for them in order to have recognized them for what they were. Bu I don't think that I went too far in allowing some of the outrageous behavior that I read about here in a daily basis.

my ex was passive aggressive. She never argued either. It was me... .Think about that.