Is she a BPD, a mix of it and something else, or none of the above?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am beginning to wonder if mine is a BPD, combination of BPD and something else or none of the above. The thing that led me here to being with is the way that she had left: suddenly and abruptly. It seems that the more I focused on the breakup, the more commonality I found with her behavior and that of pwBPD. REading abit about ACOA's (adult child of alcoholics) and PTSD I can see bits of overlap there as well... .its getting confusing!

However, outside of what I would describe as an otherwise good relationship, I have found differences with her that are different than that of the stereotypical BPD that makes me wonder. What makes it difficult is that she worked hard to hide her issues to herself so that all that I know I have been able to gather only by inference and conjecture in some ways.

Her behaviors consistent of a BPD:

-all intimate relationships were self-sabotaged  including friends and family members

-disappearing act- left without any warning or trigger

-cut me off and blocked me from contact

-6 past recycles where the breakups were over contrived non-issues

-raged but not against me, it was directed against her teenaged son

-some impulsiveivity with food and driving but not pronounced

-poor parental/familial relationship and childhood…raging alcoholic, never in a home for more than a year

-emptiness – no outward identity whatsoever, attempted to assume my identity/culture/environment

-Intense anger (at times) but not directed towards me…only during recycles and the final breakup 

-minor medical problems that were extemporaneous like facial boils and cysts

Her behaviors not consistent of a BPD:

-did not rage…in fact we never argued and rarely disagreed

-lied but not within the context of the relationship, didn’t manipulate

-no replacement with me or with earlier relationships, in fact, it looks more like she goes into seclusion

-went NC and blocked all possible forms of communication

Possible associated behavior:

-sleeplessness, extremely light sleeper (took an Ambien, a Xanax and drank a beer on a flight and STILL could not sleep!)

-moments of nervousness and anxiety

-mentally unengaged at times, drifted away. Lost in her own thoughts

-thrived on chaos…seemed most alive when she had to deal with crises ESPECIALLY her troubled son and his episodes

I am just thinking of these off of the top of my head. I can otherwise draw dotted lines to 8 or the 9 criteria, but since she did so much to hide any appearance of trouble, it was difficult for me to be entirely certain. Any thoughts?  What could it be? Can you be BPD after a breakup only?

[JRT]

I am beginning to wonder if mine is a BPD, combination of BPD and something else or none of the above. The thing that led me here to being with is the way that she had left: suddenly and abruptly. It seems that the more I focused on the breakup, the more commonality I found with her behavior and that of pwBPD. REading abit about ACOA's (adult child of alcoholics) and PTSD I can see bits of overlap there as well... .its getting confusing!

However, outside of what I would describe as an otherwise good relationship, I have found differences with her that are different than that of the stereotypical BPD that makes me wonder. What makes it difficult is that she worked hard to hide her issues to herself so that all that I know I have been able to gather only by inference and conjecture in some ways.

Her behaviors consistent of a BPD:

-all intimate relationships were self-sabotaged  including friends and family members

-disappearing act- left without any warning or trigger

-cut me off and blocked me from contact

-6 past recycles where the breakups were over contrived non-issues

-raged but not against me, it was directed against her teenaged son

-some impulsiveivity with food and driving but not pronounced

-poor parental/familial relationship and childhood…raging alcoholic, never in a home for more than a year

-emptiness – no outward identity whatsoever, attempted to assume my identity/culture/environment

-Intense anger (at times) but not directed towards me…only during recycles and the final breakup 

-minor medical problems that were extemporaneous like facial boils and cysts

Her behaviors not consistent of a BPD:

-did not rage…in fact we never argued and rarely disagreed

-lied but not within the context of the relationship, didn’t manipulate

-no replacement with me or with earlier relationships, in fact, it looks more like she goes into seclusion

-went NC and blocked all possible forms of communication

Possible associated behavior:

-sleeplessness, extremely light sleeper (took an Ambien, a Xanax and drank a beer on a flight and STILL could not sleep!)

-moments of nervousness and anxiety

-mentally unengaged at times, drifted away. Lost in her own thoughts

-thrived on chaos…seemed most alive when she had to deal with crises ESPECIALLY her troubled son and his episodes

I am just thinking of these off of the top of my head. I can otherwise draw dotted lines to 8 or the 9 criteria, but since she did so much to hide any appearance of trouble, it was difficult for me to be entirely certain. Any thoughts?  What could it be? Can you be BPD after a breakup only?

[enlighten me]

The waif type doesnt argue. The hermit doesnt jump straight into a new relationship.

Remember its a spectrum dissorder so you wont tick all the boxes and some traits will be stronger than others.

I was with my ex wife for 14 years and I never knew she had a cronic feeling of emptyness but she had said this to her mum on numerous occassions.

You never know what is going on with someone else and certainly dont know what theyre thinking.

[Tim300]

Sorry, I don't recall, how long were you with her?  I think some pwBPD can keep the condition hidden for some time.  It seems like the BPD traits definitely manifest most clearly at the very end of the relationship or even just after it has ended.  It seems like BPD really kicks in when the pwBPD starts to go "all in" in the relationship.

What's the deal with her biological parents?  Sounds like there was some trouble there.  Perhaps one of the parents had BPD (or something else) and your ex took on these genes?  

[JRT]

Sorry, I don't recall, how long were you with her? 2+ years  I think some pwBPD can keep the condition hidden for some time.  It seems like the BPD traits definitely manifest most clearly at the very end of the relationship or even just after it has ended.  It seems like BPD really kicks in when the pwBPD starts to go "all in" in the relationship.

Not sure what you mean 'all in'

What's the deal with her biological parents?  Sounds like there was some trouble there.  Perhaps one of the parents had BPD (or something else) and your ex took on these genes?  

Mom is def a codependent enabler and dad is just kind of an odd sock. He was a raging alcoholic when they were growing up... .there was lots of screaming, fists through walls, blaming her and her siblings for all of his problems (which were obviously his own)(mom was pregnant at 15 not by dad, but dad married her and then the fun began after that... .lots of poor parenting).

All of her siblings have r/s problems though they are all married. She is the only one that cannot sustain a lasting relationship. 

[Hazelrah]

I am beginning to wonder if mine is a BPD, combination of BPD and something else or none of the above. The thing that led me here to being with is the way that she had left: suddenly and abruptly. It seems that the more I focused on the breakup, the more commonality I found with her behavior and that of pwBPD. REading abit about ACOA's (adult child of alcoholics) and PTSD I can see bits of overlap there as well... .its getting confusing!

However, outside of what I would describe as an otherwise good relationship, I have found differences with her that are different than that of the stereotypical BPD that makes me wonder. What makes it difficult is that she worked hard to hide her issues to herself so that all that I know I have been able to gather only by inference and conjecture in some ways.

Her behaviors consistent of a BPD:

-all intimate relationships were self-sabotaged  including friends and family members

-disappearing act- left without any warning or trigger

-cut me off and blocked me from contact

-6 past recycles where the breakups were over contrived non-issues

-raged but not against me, it was directed against her teenaged son

-some impulsiveivity with food and driving but not pronounced

-poor parental/familial relationship and childhood…raging alcoholic, never in a home for more than a year

-emptiness – no outward identity whatsoever, attempted to assume my identity/culture/environment

-Intense anger (at times) but not directed towards me…only during recycles and the final breakup 

-minor medical problems that were extemporaneous like facial boils and cysts

Her behaviors not consistent of a BPD:

-did not rage…in fact we never argued and rarely disagreed

-lied but not within the context of the relationship, didn’t manipulate

-no replacement with me or with earlier relationships, in fact, it looks more like she goes into seclusion

-went NC and blocked all possible forms of communication

Possible associated behavior:

-sleeplessness, extremely light sleeper (took an Ambien, a Xanax and drank a beer on a flight and STILL could not sleep!)

-moments of nervousness and anxiety

-mentally unengaged at times, drifted away. Lost in her own thoughts

-thrived on chaos…seemed most alive when she had to deal with crises ESPECIALLY her troubled son and his episodes

I am just thinking of these off of the top of my head. I can otherwise draw dotted lines to 8 or the 9 criteria, but since she did so much to hide any appearance of trouble, it was difficult for me to be entirely certain. Any thoughts?  What could it be? Can you be BPD after a breakup only?

I have seen you mention a few times that your ex and/or relationship with her does not neatly fit into the 'stereotypical' characteristics of pwBPD/relationships w/ pwBPD.  I know this can all become quite overwhelming.  As mentioned by others, it is a spectrum disorder.  Perhaps you've come across this in your research here, but, if not, you might be interested in the manifestations of BPD described by Dr. Christine Lawson in her book "Understanding the Borderline Mother".  She describes four types: the waif, hermit, queen, and witch.  Here's a pretty interesting old thread from the board that you might want to check out... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61982.0

[Tim300]

I have seen you mention a few times that your ex and/or relationship with her does not neatly fit into the 'stereotypical' characteristics of pwBPD/relationships w/ pwBPD. 

I'm not sure if this is directly on topic, but I wonder how the definition of BPD will evolve over time.  It seems like BPD is a relatively new discovery.  I wonder if, for example, BPD will be split in to two discrete PDs at some point.  It is somewhat odd that there is this disorder where you are suppose to meet X of 9 symptoms.  Maybe it's really two different disorders with just 3 or 4 overlapping symptoms.  As far as I know my ex has never engaged in cutting.  Maybe the cutting will ultimately get lumped in to just one of the resulting 2 or more PDs if my theory is carried out. 

[BlackHoleSun]

Here's a description of BPD... .

Personality disorder characterized by a definite tendency to act impulsively and without consideration of the consequences; the mood is unpredictable and capricious. There is a liability to outbursts of emotion and incapacity to control the behavioural explosions. There is a tendency to quarrelsome behaviour and to conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or censored. Two types may be distinguished: the impulsive type, characterized predominantly by emotional instability and lack of impulse control, and the borderline type, characterized in addition by disturbances in self-image, aims, and internal preferences, by chronic feelings of emptiness, by intense and unstable interpersonal relationships, and by a tendency to self-destructive behaviour, including suicide gestures and attempts.”

Here are the 9 traits, 6 of which need to be met over a prolonged period of time.

1. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

2. A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterised by alternation between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. Identity disturbance - markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging, e.g. spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving or binge-eating.

5. Recurrent suicidal behaviour, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behaviour.

6. Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood, e.g. intense episodic dysphoria, irritability or anxiety, which usually lasts for between a few hours and several days.

7. Chronic feelings of emptiness

8. Inappropriate, intense anger, or difficulty controlling anger, e.g. frequent displays of temper, constant anger or recurrent physical fights.

9. Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.

Anyone with six or more of the above traits and symptoms may be diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. However, the traits must be long-standing (pervasive), and there must be no better explanation for them, e.g. physical illness, a different mental illness or substance misuse.

[BlackHoleSun]

Hey JRT! Just read one of your posts over on another thread. It was the one about your exGF giving gifts and seemingly being uninterested about the whole thing, just wanting to get through it as fast as possible.

From what you've listed about your ex so far, i'm really not seeing BPD. Could you write say 1-9 and then list examples of how she displayed the traits? Maybe it would be helpful to people if we all did that, to give a clear indication of the kind of things the DSM criteria is talking about?

What i really wanted to mention though, is what you wrote about over on the other thread, sounds very much like behaviour of someone with NPD. I've heard of the gift giving thing before, in fact i think there's quite a few mentions of it on the internet and i'm pretty sure i've seen it mentioned in vids on youtube. Its to do with the NPD's lack of empathy. That could be something to look into! Hope that helps.

[ShadowIntheNight]

I am beginning to wonder if mine is a BPD, combination of BPD and something else or none of the above. The thing that led me here to being with is the way that she had left: suddenly and abruptly. It seems that the more I focused on the breakup, the more commonality I found with her behavior and that of pwBPD. REading abit about ACOA's (adult child of alcoholics) and PTSD I can see bits of overlap there as well... .its getting confusing!

However, outside of what I would describe as an otherwise good relationship, I have found differences with her that are different than that of the stereotypical BPD that makes me wonder. What makes it difficult is that she worked hard to hide her issues to herself so that all that I know I have been able to gather only by inference and conjecture in some ways.

Her behaviors consistent of a BPD:

-all intimate relationships were self-sabotaged  including friends and family members

-disappearing act- left without any warning or trigger

-cut me off and blocked me from contact

-6 past recycles where the breakups were over contrived non-issues

-raged but not against me, it was directed against her teenaged son

-some impulsiveivity with food and driving but not pronounced

-poor parental/familial relationship and childhood…raging alcoholic, never in a home for more than a year

-emptiness – no outward identity whatsoever, attempted to assume my identity/culture/environment

-Intense anger (at times) but not directed towards me…only during recycles and the final breakup  

-minor medical problems that were extemporaneous like facial boils and cysts

Her behaviors not consistent of a BPD:

-did not rage…in fact we never argued and rarely disagreed

-lied but not within the context of the relationship, didn’t manipulate

-no replacement with me or with earlier relationships, in fact, it looks more like she goes into seclusion

-went NC and blocked all possible forms of communication

Possible associated behavior:

-sleeplessness, extremely light sleeper (took an Ambien, a Xanax and drank a beer on a flight and STILL could not sleep!)

-moments of nervousness and anxiety

-mentally unengaged at times, drifted away. Lost in her own thoughts

-thrived on chaos…seemed most alive when she had to deal with crises ESPECIALLY her troubled son and his episodes

I am just thinking of these off of the top of my head. I can otherwise draw dotted lines to 8 or the 9 criteria, but since she did so much to hide any appearance of trouble, it was difficult for me to be entirely certain. Any thoughts?  What could it be? Can you be BPD after a breakup only?

You know JRT, my uBPDexgf didn't rage at me and we rarely argued over the course of 9.5 years. We did have some push/pull occassions over that time, and only one time where she left, but did not break contact and ultimately we got back together for 3.5 more yrs ending this past August (tho her cheating and finding my replacement had begun in April/May last yr).

She did however "rage" at her exH and raged to me about him. I realize that I had been triangulated into that relationship, and as long as she was raging at him, I was off the hook, so to speak. She also cursed like a dozen sailors and tho her driving was reasonable, whenever she was talking on the phone she would invariably break into an expletive laden tirade about the driver in the other car.

Early on I learned she had a "temper" and told her that she always shot first and asked questions later. I always noted that I surely didn't want her hot headedness turned on me. But it wasn't until we had been together the last 2.5 yrs that I noticed or rather "discovered" a side to her I had never seen, and that is when someone got on her bad side, she cut them off. And she was doing it deliberately and I knew it was to punish them for crossing her. She also got extremely narcissistic declaring what a hot body she had, how smart a T she was, how she was the most qualified to be a, of all things, PTA president. I mean how are you the most qualified to be a PTA president? It was for one thing only, allowing her to be the center of attention.

Having said that, I would have never guessed that, as good a relationship and as intimately we knew one another, I have yet to speak to her voice to voice since last June. She literally stopped calling. The texts ended in July, and as u know in August she let me know she had been dating men (we were in a lesbian relat) all summer. Right. Since April. But she doesn't know I know that as we haven't spoken since last June. So like you, there are some criteria that aren't the DSM criteria perfectly. But no one just drops a partner after 9.5 yrs and to this date, not made any contact attempt beyond breaking up in a birthday card, which is how she ended ours. Quite dignified, wouldn't you agree?

I'm sure she has a boyfriend. And I suspect at this point she either still hates me or is embarrassed or ashamed of what she did, and one of these reasons is why I don't hear from her. You cant imagine how wounded I am. I've cried everyday for 6 months. I'm trying to stop because I'm vain and don't like the bags forming under my eyes. And yet last night I was enraged at 1 a.m. I'm sure she was sound asleep.

So if our partners are not "true" BPDs there is still something seriously wrong with them. My ex is 46 and is a Counselor herself. If I told her I thought she was BPD, well, eyes have never seen, nor ears have never heard that which would emanate from her, I'm sure!

I share your confusion... .

[EaglesJuju]

Hi JRT,

I understand how confusing it is to figure out the behavior of your ex. I do not think you are ever going to really know for sure. It could be a comorbidity of BPD/GAD or BPD/PTSD. We can only speculate.

As Hazelrah mentioned, BPD is a spectrum disorder. Everyone is different and has different levels of intensity for personality traits.  This includes "non disordered" people as well. Lumping a variety of pervasive maladaptive behaviors/traits into a category and labeling it as a personality disorder helps with treatment/diagnosis for the disordered person, but how does the label affect us?  What do we get out of "diagnosing" our exes or SO's? Does knowing a "diagnosis" of our exes or SO help us?

.

[JRT]

I am beginning to wonder if mine is a BPD, combination of BPD and something else or none of the above. The thing that led me here to being with is the way that she had left: suddenly and abruptly. It seems that the more I focused on the breakup, the more commonality I found with her behavior and that of pwBPD. REading abit about ACOA's (adult child of alcoholics) and PTSD I can see bits of overlap there as well... .its getting confusing!

However, outside of what I would describe as an otherwise good relationship, I have found differences with her that are different than that of the stereotypical BPD that makes me wonder. What makes it difficult is that she worked hard to hide her issues to herself so that all that I know I have been able to gather only by inference and conjecture in some ways.

Her behaviors consistent of a BPD:

-all intimate relationships were self-sabotaged  including friends and family members

-disappearing act- left without any warning or trigger

-cut me off and blocked me from contact

-6 past recycles where the breakups were over contrived non-issues

-raged but not against me, it was directed against her teenaged son

-some impulsiveivity with food and driving but not pronounced

-poor parental/familial relationship and childhood…raging alcoholic, never in a home for more than a year

-emptiness – no outward identity whatsoever, attempted to assume my identity/culture/environment

-Intense anger (at times) but not directed towards me…only during recycles and the final breakup  

-minor medical problems that were extemporaneous like facial boils and cysts

Her behaviors not consistent of a BPD:

-did not rage…in fact we never argued and rarely disagreed

-lied but not within the context of the relationship, didn’t manipulate

-no replacement with me or with earlier relationships, in fact, it looks more like she goes into seclusion

-went NC and blocked all possible forms of communication

Possible associated behavior:

-sleeplessness, extremely light sleeper (took an Ambien, a Xanax and drank a beer on a flight and STILL could not sleep!)

-moments of nervousness and anxiety

-mentally unengaged at times, drifted away. Lost in her own thoughts

-thrived on chaos…seemed most alive when she had to deal with crises ESPECIALLY her troubled son and his episodes

I am just thinking of these off of the top of my head. I can otherwise draw dotted lines to 8 or the 9 criteria, but since she did so much to hide any appearance of trouble, it was difficult for me to be entirely certain. Any thoughts?  What could it be? Can you be BPD after a breakup only?

You know JRT, my uBPDexgf didn't rage at me and we rarely argued over the course of 9.5 years. We did have some push/pull occassions over that time, and only one time where she left, but did not break contact and ultimately we got back together for 3.5 more yrs ending this past August (tho her cheating and finding my replacement had begun in April/May last yr).

She did however "rage" at her exH and raged to me about him. I realize that I had been triangulated into that relationship, and as long as she was raging at him, I was off the hook, so to speak. She also cursed like a dozen sailors and tho her driving was reasonable, whenever she was talking on the phone she would invariably break into an expletive laden tirade about the driver in the other car.

Early on I learned she had a "temper" and told her that she always shot first and asked questions later. I always noted that I surely didn't want her hot headedness turned on me. But it wasn't until we had been together the last 2.5 yrs that I noticed or rather "discovered" a side to her I had never seen, and that is when someone got on her bad side, she cut them off. And she was doing it deliberately and I knew it was to punish them for crossing her. She also got extremely narcissistic declaring what a hot body she had, how smart a T she was, how she was the most qualified to be a, of all things, PTA president. I mean how are you the most qualified to be a PTA president? It was for one thing only, allowing her to be the center of attention.

Having said that, I would have never guessed that, as good a relationship and as intimately we knew one another, I have yet to speak to her voice to voice since last June. She literally stopped calling. The texts ended in July, and as u know in August she let me know she had been dating men (we were in a lesbian relat) all summer. Right. Since April. But she doesn't know I know that as we haven't spoken since last June. So like you, there are some criteria that aren't the DSM criteria perfectly. But no one just drops a partner after 9.5 yrs and to this date, not made any contact attempt beyond breaking up in a birthday card, which is how she ended ours. Quite dignified, wouldn't you agree?

I'm sure she has a boyfriend. And I suspect at this point she either still hates me or is embarrassed or ashamed of what she did, and one of these reasons is why I don't hear from her. You cant imagine how wounded I am. I've cried everyday for 6 months. I'm trying to stop because I'm vain and don't like the bags forming under my eyes. And yet last night I was enraged at 1 a.m. I'm sure she was sound asleep.

So if our partners are not "true" BPDs there is still something seriously wrong with them. My ex is 46 and is a Counselor herself. If I told her I thought she was BPD, well, eyes have never seen, nor ears have never heard that which would emanate from her, I'm sure!

I share your confusion... .

Sorry to hear that you are going through all of this shadow... .you brought up something that I didn't consider about mine before - that the triangulation doesn't necessarily need to be with someone that she could act upon such as her ex before your... .hence, mine raged against her son but not me thereby comprising the triangulation. Interesting... .I believe that he once again moved in with Mom and the chaos that is her son is fulfilling her needs as was the case before we met. 

[JRT]

I feel that knowing as much as I possibly can helps me to cope in  this situation. It helps me to know that I was engaged to someone with a personality disorder to the extent that there is a name for it and typical behaviors that are associated with it including the manner in which she had broken up with me. I don't know why... .but it does.

[Tim300]

I feel that knowing as much as I possibly can helps me to cope in  this situation. It helps me to know that I was engaged to someone with a personality disorder to the extent that there is a name for it and typical behaviors that are associated with it including the manner in which she had broken up with me. I don't know why... .but it does.

I agree with you.

[Hazelrah]

I feel that knowing as much as I possibly can helps me to cope in  this situation. It helps me to know that I was engaged to someone with a personality disorder to the extent that there is a name for it and typical behaviors that are associated with it including the manner in which she had broken up with me. I don't know why... .but it does.

I agree-this can help us cope with the situation.  It helped me, and I never thought I could ever come back from this... .I've surprised myself in that regard.

Knowing that their behavior was ultimately theirs, and not your fault, can be a step towards healing.  Another step can then be asking ourselves if we would be willing to continue a dysfunctional relationship with this person who has repeated this behavior a number of times, even if they do come back.  That answer generally changes with enough time and distance. 

[jo19854]

I feel that knowing as much as I possibly can helps me to cope in  this situation. It helps me to know that I was engaged to someone with a personality disorder to the extent that there is a name for it and typical behaviors that are associated with it including the manner in which she had broken up with me. I don't know why... .but it does.

I agree with you.

JRT, I can so relate to your questions, answers, finding a way to get closure. The pain of missing, the flashbacks. The question, WHY, How is someone able to do this. I know for myself that in some way these questions will hunt me forever.

Time is our enemy and our friend.