How long have your exBPD's rebound/replacement relationships lasted?

[LimboFL]

Hey everyone,

I am still in the negotiation phase where my brain says "could you ever live like that again, the insults, the rages, the one foot out the door constantly, worrying about whether she might be on a mental flight of fancy with another man (she wasn't a sleep around type but she would periodically go on brief emotional jaunts with other men, which I put my foot down on) the STD?" but my heart says... .

For the record my exBPDgf was very self aware so frequency and magnitude were somewhat tempered and there was genuine remorse.

My brain still can't believe that my heart won't let go. I have said this in several posts that what I longed for were the days where there was calm, kindness, a quick peck on the lips goodbye, a nice talkative meal, maybe a quick dance to some deep house grooves. That kind of thing, i.e. not the idealization phase.

I think that, naturally, what hurts most is the belief that they get to enjoy a new love, while I know that I need to take the long road to repair myself before I will be any good to a new woman. I actually joined a couple of dating sites, half halfheartedly, and short of a couple, I look at all of them like they are crazy (some of them clearly are). The mere thought of being with another woman, right now, is the furthest thing from my mind. But it still bothers me that she is living happy while I am trying to pieces myself back together.

I guess my objective in asking the question of you all, if you know, if the stats go as I expect them to, is to somehow provide some relief that life won't be hunky dory for my ex, after she decided (after four years together and no definitive it's over) to go on a date, out of town with some guy she met out of town, who still lives with his ex wife and kids. During a prior trip, where she met this guy, she was texting me I love you's and I miss you's every night and was in her hotel every night chatting with me, so nothing happened. I think they spoke only a few times in between before their "date" out of town on NYE (I moved out the 30th). She did not have the time to really get to know him.

Before me, the last long relationship that my ex had was four years prior and that lasted 7 years. Between then and our meeting, I know that she had a string of boyfriends. But she did feel committed in a relationship, despite her boozed brain allowing her to go off on brief emotional flings.

Some of you won't know, just like I because I have absolutely no interest in checking her social media pages and we have no other people that link us and I wouldn't ask anyway, but for those of you who do.

I feel betrayed but unlike when my ex wife (together 20 years) found a new man prior to our divorce, I had nightmares about it. I am not with this relationship. I guess the fact that this guy lives 1000 miles away, has a family and a good job and because she has dogs, a job and can't just run when she wants to, has helped me process it all. Maybe she has moved on one of the local guys she had flights of fancy with, who knows.

I imagine that, for those of us who have had to endure this wonderful experience of being replaced, this question has some significance. I have read previous posts asking if anyone could foretell if their BPDex would somehow morph and suddenly be happy, after you and that one only needed to examine history to know the future, but I haven't seen a thread where stats were listed on the duration of rebound/replacement relationships. So, I thought I would ask.

Thank you.

[Infern0]

6 months so far although from what I hear their relationship is on life support now.  Her replacement is apparently openly telling mutual friends he wants out, and has been going to counselling for depression since about 6 weeks into their RS.   she's cheated on him with me a few times and I can't figure out if she's trying to line me up as his replacement but certainly I'm being contacted a LOT. 

So yeah somehow they are still going but I don't give it long

[eyvindr]

Hi Limb0. Sorry to hear that you're going through this. It always sucks when a partner leaves us. Multiples worse when there's infidelity, betrayal or deception involved.

I'm not going to answer your question. Because I don't think it matters. Instead, I'll tell you what I do think matters -- and I hope that may help you even more.

I think that, naturally, what hurts most is the belief that they get to enjoy a new love, while I know that I need to take the long road to repair myself before I will be any good to a new woman. I actually joined a couple of dating sites, half halfheartedly, and short of a couple, I look at all of them like they are crazy (some of them clearly are). The mere thought of being with another woman, right now, is the furthest thing from my mind. But it still bothers me that she is living happy while I am trying to pieces myself back together.

The key word there is "naturally." If your ex has BPD -- I don't know your background, I'm sorry -- very likely nothing she does on an emotional level resembles in any way what someone with healthy emotional processing would consider to be natural. If she's in a new r-ship, while it may appear that she's enjoying a new love, while she may say that she's enjoying a new love, while she may be exhibiting behaviors that would indicate that she is happy in a new r-ship -- it's all behavior manifested by the illness. That's what's so damnably confusing and frustrating about this damned disease -- we keep forgetting that we are trying to make sense of something that, by definition, does not adhere to the rules of reason.

Remember -- Bippiddee Land, the Town that Reason Forgot. I resided there for awhile, too. Three years, in fact. It was where I discovered you could go from being called "soulmate" to "monster." How? -- just jump on the BPD Line -- it's an express route to misery!

Sorry to jest -- I know your feelings aren't funny, and the pain is real. I'd say try to console yourself by recognizing that what you are doing -- taking a self-imposed time-out from dating until you retune your emotional engine and flush the ex-induced dysfunction from your system -- is what a healthy, responsible person would do. Instead of launching head, heart and hips first into a brand new serious intimate relationship -- which is more what a lot of pwBPD do.

Focus on yourself, look ahead, be kind to yourself, and move on. There's nothing to see here. Leave that "Welcome to Bippiddee!" sign in the rearview.

[billypilgrim]

How long did you last?  You were likely a rebound so there's a first stat for you.

I lasted 6 years.  Guy before me made it 2 years.

No clue on the newbie.

[clydegriffith]

Well, the guy she was initially chasing ended up not leaving his wife and kids for her.

She quickly suckered someone else in and that lasted a couple of months.

Next one lasted about 6 months. The guy proposed within two months but then she got caught cheating.

The next guy was immediatley after that. She got pregnant right away(kid #5) and they moved in together right away. That's been about a year and a half now so the clock's a ticking on an inevitable disaster. I've got my popcorn ready  

Regardless of what happens i'm sure it'll be next man up. Her appearance has gone down hill as she's put on a massive amount of weight but i'm sure she wouldn't have troulbe suckering someone else in. She's a professional.

[LimboFL]

I know you are right, eyvindr and I also know that there are no definitive answers and that I can't take my eye off the ball. I feel robbed, that's all. Many here do. I also know that my question is ultimately bloody childish, which at 47 ( she is 45 so no spring chicken and her years of drug abuse etc are showing - childish snyde remark on my part but I am not really in the mood to be mature right now ) makes me feel quite ridiculous. You endure all of the chaos, the mind screwing, the mental anguish and you wonder how on earth could someone not see that as complete and total love?

One of the most amusing things was that one of my exBPD's most used statements, when she painted me black, was "you can tell a person's character when the chips are down". I bloody endured 4 years of constant upheaval, with brief moments of gentility and love and you use that saying to define me? When the chips were down for you, I was there.

I know that I am grasping at straws and that my search for an answer that doesn't exist is and that my request, ultimately, is an exercise in futility but somehow getting these questions out of my head and onto the screen, helps. I don't have access to therapy right now, so this is all I have. I yearn to know if she ever wonders if she lost that man that could have endured most of it and would still love her etc etc.

So, yes, there is some therapy in trying to know how long these rebounds typically last. Billypilgrim, while I appreciate your reasoning, I think you are ahead of the game.

Before me, there were others but I was the longest prior to the man that ended up running off with another woman (escaping from the crazy). That lasted 7 years. My ex wife took 6 months of evaluating my replacement before she made the jump, mine had a few weeks before I rolled.

I guess another question is relevant, how many of us out there, have the capacity to be willing to deal with such a relationship? How many single people, especially at my age, are willing to endure all of the chaos and still have the kind of compassion that is necessary to see the beauty in the people we fell in love with?

While I reserve the right to change my mind, right now I simply can't muster hate. She never called the cops, she never stole from me, she had a moral foundation, she apologized and felt remorse, we had plenty of gentle moments etc etc. That doesn't mean that I wasn't mentally beaten down, that there weren't rages etc etc, so I think it depends on the individuals. Quite often she said she just wanted to be alone and I know that she did spend a lot of time alone. She would laugh at how critical she would be of people she went on dates with (before me). The wrong mustard in the fridge, took longer than her to get dressed, I mean she was a total Queen/waif and her anger surfaced almost immediately with me.

Again, everyone, forgive me. This is my therapy right now. To tell my story and ask questions. Otherwise, I sit here with no one to discuss all of this with. I am in this community because everyone here has a common bond.

[Hawk Ridge]

Hi Limbo

I am a few years older than you and my ex left in March.  She has many similarities to your ex, high functioning quiet critical.  Before December, I would have given my left arm to get her back.  Then, I finally turned the corner.  I am by no means totally over her but more in a place where i don't think i want her back.  I miss our friendship and our life together but not the brooding negativity.  I struggle still with overcoming the brutal rejection and the feelings of unworthiness as she is still with my replacement but, more often than not, I have compassion foe my replacement as she must be experiencing the pain and confusion I did.   As far as analyzing it, understanding it, fixing it... .pretty tough to do that with a person who is mentally ill as their actions and thinking patterns don't really make sense. I know i shouldn't personalize the rejection as her decisions were based on her mental illness.  Those are all rational thoughts but I am human and still in pain, just less and with more moments of clarity.  Keep doing what you need for therapy. You're not alone.

[LimboFL]

Thank you very much for your response Hawk. While this board reveals universal truths about our relationships with BPD's, there are moment where I read stories that, while I can relate to them, are far more severe than what I experienced. It was, as you say more about the brooding negativity mixed in with brief moments of chaos and unruly behavior.

There are so many variables, including the fact that these are people with their own experiences, all of which effects how they deal, cope and manage their disorder. I know that my ex has been in therapy before and was aware of coping mechanisms.

I too miss the friendship, deeply because I am conscious enough to have recognized mirroring. I am hard to sneak up on, and she was far too smart to have devoted much time to bothering to mirroring me. I was completely thrown back during the honeymoon stage, to the point where I was sometimes a little uncomfortable and my ex wasn't my dream girl but dammit, if I didn't fall in love with her. I could get into so many small details, that can't be faked, that would expose why I ended up falling for her and almost all were founded on commonalities rather than fantasies.

I believe that I am fortunately ahead of the game, in terms of my desire to get her back. Reason tends to prevail with me although, I admit that it didn't for the four years that we were together. With that said, she got kicked out of her apartment and was in my place within months. When you live with someone there is an assumed commitment that one tries harder to make things work. When we live with our partners, it signifies that the relationship has advanced to another level, even if it forced.

Like you, I fight the desire to just be with her again, the kind, sweet person that I ended up falling for. Through education and maturity, I was willing to deal with the witch that showed up periodically, the insolent brat, the teenager that acted like she didn't have any responsibility to the relationship. For the most part, again, it was just negative brooding, but even then she would often apologize, knowing full well that she was the cause of many of the dark clouds. I played m part too and maybe it was because I was tired.

The temporary answer would be to have a pretty lady show up in my life that could give me hope and faith again, but my head is not nearly ready, which of course is why I asked the original question in the first place. The underlying theme being how can we be replaced so easily but as you say, what I need to reason to myself is that any replacement is going to quickly screw up somehow and be left dealing with the same confused emotions that you and I have had to deal with. Man were those first months tough, in fact it was probably the first few years. I quickly realized something was not right and dug for answers. First it was bipolar (which by admission she also suffered with) but I finally landed on BPD, so I knew what I was dealing with. Knowing and being able to deal are different things. It took me three years to finally learn how to not absorb or react. Too late, I guess.

Fortunately I am going through all kinds of life changes at the moment, new job, new living space etc. so I have plenty to focus on but there are some loose ends to tie up with her, coming soon and I am finding it hard to completely detach. 2 weeks after the end I sent her a letter where I, without blubbering, explaining that our new and fresh living arrangement might be a good time to see if things could be different together. I explained that I needed the coming few weeks to sort a number of things out but asked her to think about revisiting the relationship. We have only texted once since (practical matter) but it was clear that her anger (at my moving out suddenly) had dissipated (tone of response) and there is a part of me that keeps pulling back to that possibility while also questioning why I would ever want that again. I drive around every day now, without having anyone to answer to. I don't have to drive her back and forth to work anymore or run home to feed her dogs etc etc. But I miss her and the relationship when things were calm and happy, which is clearly what you miss.

Anyway, I could go on and on. Thank you again for responding. It's nice to have someone out there who is around my age, who's ex was similar to mine, older, more aware etc.

Ultimately we are all on our own journey and each of our journeys are going to just roll out naturally. I look forward to, one day, finding a woman that offers the qualities I miss without the moguls.

Stay strong hawk.  You were the perfect, soothing, close to my evening of mind bending ruminations. =)   

[HappyNihilist]

I feel robbed, that's all.

That's completely understandable.

Hell, the first few weeks after my breakup, I would occasionally spend some quality time crying and yelling, "It's not fair!" in an empty room. It's really not fair, is it? We give and we love and we support, and then not only do we not get the same in return, but we're coldly cast off and left to pick up the pieces on our own.

So yes, it's natural to feel "robbed." Let yourself feel it, really look at what it's telling you about yourself -- about what you expect, want, and need from a partner. What love and intimacy look like to you.

The truth is-- life is not fair. Expectations otherwise only lead to suffering.

But look at it this way: most pwBPD will never find their own happiness, peace, and truth. You have the chance to find yours. 

You endure all of the chaos, the mind screwing, the mental anguish and you wonder how on earth could someone not see that as complete and total love?

What that looks like is suffering... .enduring anguish and uncertainty... .sacrificing your own well-being, needs, desires, and emotional/mental health for another person.

So the question is, why does love look like suffering and self-sacrifice to you?

I know that I am grasping at straws and that my search for an answer that doesn't exist is and that my request, ultimately, is an exercise in futility but somehow getting these questions out of my head and onto the screen, helps.

Writing down our thoughts and questions, sharing our stories... .it absolutely helps. 

[charred]

Replacement lasted 4 months, he went from dreamy perfect, to the guy that gave her the STD she reached out to me for moral support to handle.  

Thankfully I have been truly NC since then, and don't peek at FB, had my sister start to give me an update on my exBPDgf, and I cut her off saying I didn't want to know... .and I didn't.

Long ago when she dumped me first time... the guy was only in the picture a few months (like 2) from what her friends told me. Most people were quicker to part company with her than I.

[lipstick]

Hi Limbo,

Let me start by saying I understand what you are feeling and going through. I'm over two YEARS out of my "interaction" with BPDex and I still come to this site looking for answers.

As far as the rebound / replacement question goes - my own situation was complicated. BPDex and I were both in unhappy marriages. Both devoid of sexual intimacy and companionship. His spouse is much older than he and had already gone thru menopause many years ago. She no longer has any interest in sex and it's actually painful for her. So he's been doing "without" for many years. We were both to leave our respective spouses. I followed thru (divorce) and he did not. When he dumped me - guess where he went? Back to the spouse. They just recently celebrated their 26th wedding anniversary. Yes - he had to post that ALL OVER Facebook for all to see! 

So other than me - they've been together a long time. She is violent and an alcoholic. Either BPD or NPD or both. He is a Waif BPD.  And from what he tells the FB community - life has never been better!  So I suppose it's possible for people with BPD to have long-term relationships. My ex being the example. But I don't think it's the norm!

I hope you find the answers you're looking for. I still struggle every day with trying to understand why she was a better choice than me. And how he can now be so happy and content with life.   

[Deeno02]

Like Hawk Ridge said, clarity. Almost 6 months now out of r/s and I see so much I buried or ignored just so I wouldnt be alone. Guess what? Clarity allowed me to see that I was alone even with her. I'm not sure what went wrong as we usually don't get closure, but needless to say, needs were met till I could no longer meet them, then poof, new guy a week later. I believe I just wasn't good enough or haute enough for her circle of friends and that she was embarrassed of me. I was the replacement to her husband who left her(I now see why). I was used while she got her ___ together. Hard to admit that, but that's just the way it goes. My replacement is an old college buddy. That's about all I know. Good luck dude. Your gonna need it.

[Coffeeandsmokes]

First post. I find this message board a fantastic crutch. Limbo, there area stack of similarities with your failed relationship as my own. I don't know quite where on the cluster B spectrum she registers, i just know that she's on it! When we split late last year, I took an introspective step, found fault with myself, analysed and interrogated everything that had happened. She, obviously, moved straight on. But what I found so hard to fathom was why she picked the bloke she did, he is completely different to me. Everything that she complained about with me is to be found in this guy 10 fold. Then I had my moment of enlightenment. I see it all now. He's different from me, I'm different from the bloke I replaced. The three of us are the sides of a triangle. She doesn't have a type, just a need. And she's so hot and sexually 'capable' that she has no trouble fulfilling that need.  Her new rs has started with the expected intensity. Travelling abroad to meet his family after 2 weeks and gushy 'i love you' posts on FB. But I also know that not all is well, re-friending on FB for instance (suggests some dramatic fall out). I learnt last night that she keeps trying to talk to my friends about me, not that they engage her, and she doesn't talk about her new relationship around them. She contacted me accusing me of bad mouthing her which is cobblers, but her half hearted attempt to fight the battle indicates she doesn't really believe it. To get to my point, I know this won't last, it can't last, her motivations are all wrong. I don't expect this guy is anywhere near as weak as me so will kick her into touch when crazy gets going (exacerbated by how much of an ill-fit they are).  And that's probably it really, how long these relationships last depends on how careful a selection they make. I forced her hand by leaving when she didn't expect it and she had to get what was a available. Now it's just a case of standing by and learning of the chaos in time.

[LimboFL]

Thanks everyone. Coffeeandsmokes. I forced her hand as well. The only difference is that mine is 45 and not in the best shape. She is an admitted bossy bottom in bed and has an STD (I didn't give to her). I fell in love with her so I overlooked many things. She was absolutely a stunner when she was younger and I still see the beauty but she is not as young as she once was. I know it's mean to even say this but it helps me.

Deeno, not to different than I, she was getting her ___ together, although it is not nearly together at this point and it came at a cost to me, because I was trying to get my own together too but sacrificed. Her sales job has serious ups and downs as does her performance. I was constantly encouraging her and attempting to stop her from worrying that she would get fired.

Thank you lipstick. I am sad to hear that two years in you are still hurting. You took the big step and he didn't. Thank you for your words of encouragement. I hope you find your true love.

Happy Nihilist, thank you for your words of wisdom. As for the question of why I suffering can look like love. First, of course, it wasn't all suffering but more importantly whether rescuers or not, when the light bulb goes off (you realize that your SO is BPD or any other disorder - mine went off early) you actually fall in love more because you know that they had a horrible childhood and more. You know that they crossed paths with countless people who had zero patience for their antics, who hurt and used them. You strive to be different. I never tried to help or advise on her disorder(s) and I never pushed her to admit it. It took forever for her to start giving me enough to go on.

They hate that they are what they are. When you love someone, you hurt when they have such a negative view on themselves. I am not a masochist but without empathy, I believe it is impossible to love.

That, in my view, is what loving someone is about. I have written this before, but there is a reason wedding vows say, in sickness and in health. Does this mean that I gave up all of my own happiness, absolutely not. I live in my head and very often entertained myself and as mentioned, it wasn't all hell. There were plenty of moments of quiet joy and kindness. I was just learning how not to absorb her out of the blue criticisms and it was working. I wasn't taking it in (water off of a ducks back). The rages were maybe one every four months, as she was clearly working on controlling herself.

I know exactly what you meant by asking me, but when you love someone, within reason, certain sacrifices and allowances are not that costly if you are able to stop them from eating you up inside. I didn't feel like Mr. Knight in Shining armor when feeling the way I did, I wasn't expecting medals, my heart just wanted to be her rock. With that said I did feel and express to her on many occasions, when things would get out of hand, that I felt taken for granted.

I had my first dream of her last night, she looked very beautiful and it was just her sitting on the couch reading a magazine and she looked to me with the oh so beautiful smile she had. It was odd because it was not very real. She was usually buried in her phone or tablet, in bed sleeping late or whatever. Her calmly reading a magazine on the couch, not very real. But she looked beautiful. Have no idea what that dream meant but I am not going to spend any time trying to figure it out. When my ex wife found another man before announcing she wanted a divorce, my nightmares were cringe inducing and horrible. Her in bed with the guy etc. We were together 20 years and have a son. So a quiet dream like the one had of my exBPD was strangely soothing.

Thank you all again, for your kindness in responding and for your support. This board truly is full of very kind people. I guess it makes sense because we all gave a great deal of ourselves for another. 

[jjclark]

Limbo, thanks for sharing this.  So much of what you just wrote resonated with me, the "I live in my head part" especially.  The perks of being an introvert :P 

I totally get you mean about that dream, after my experience I had a couple of dreams similar to that.  Seeing her at peace, the way I thought she was at first.  All I had wanted was to help her get a sense of peace, because her life seemed so chaotic and I could see that is what she was seeing as attractive in me. My brain's way of giving me a little present.  I remember that when I quit drinking so heavily I would have dreams that I would go out and get ___faced again, vivid enough that when I'd wake up I "looked" for that hangover .  It's kind of like that with the dreams I have of her, they are nice though and I like to remember my ex partner this way, at peace and happy. I truly hope she gets to this someday.

To answer your original question, it sounds like most of my exgf's relationships didn't last very long.  She was in one for 3 years before we met and I still sometimes wonder if I wasn't his replacement.  I remember her moving stuff when we first met, the more I think about it the more I feel bad for the guy.  They had been sharing a lot more than we had.  Our relationship lasted the better part of 14 months with a few week-long absences on her part where she would just disappear.  After she left she has had 2x 3 month relationship.  The 3 month mark is the period where I started figuring out that her actions did not equal what she would tell me.  She shared some stuff with me, let me in on some details at that point. I can see why some partners would choose not to stay. 

I am sorry to hear about your story, it sounds like you genuinely cared for this person and that you only had her best interest in mind.  It is unfortunate that she couldn't see that at the time, chances are she hasn't had a lot of that in her life.  In any case, I wish you success in your recovery.  Thank you again for sharing.

 

[LimboFL]

Thank you, JJ.

I am not at the point where I am calm enough, in my heart, to contend with the hope that she finds peace. Not that I want anything else but rather because I wanted to be part of that peace. I have learned a lot about myself in this. I made plenty of errors and had my own chaos, so I will never throw all of the blame on her shoulders, but my view on things was that I took some hard blows from her and stood strong. Yes, there were times where I said " I want out" which undoubtedly exacerbated the abandonment fears, but it was always after she had done something to me. I never felt it when things were good and happy.

As so many have said, regardless of what the future holds, fixing what ails us is the only priority.

Thank you, as well, for sharing.

[Caredverymuch]

it sounds like you genuinely cared for this person and that you only had her best interest in mind.  It is unfortunate that she couldn't see that at the time, chances are she hasn't had a lot of that in her life. 

 

Bingo! The truth is you, I , so many others here GENUINELY cared for our expBPDs, saw the beauty beneath the behaviors, and empathized, cared... .very much so... .about the person. 

We loved. In a very real way, unconditionally and their disorder kicked into high gear. Bc, they did NOT have a lot of that in their lives. And they could not trust it. Even while it was in the most beautiful place, their disorder shifted into protective mode and they projected and left us.

They replace not out of love, happiness, or glee. They replace to smoother the intense hurt, fear, shame of really processing the loss. The loss they caused but their mind replays it very differently. Their self projections are believed and they dissociate the truth of who we were to them. The pain is far too great for them to process reality that way. That's why you read the same stories here over and over. The same patterns. Up and leave shocked partners who genuinely loved them seemingly overnight and pick right up with someone new. Often times a horrific distortion campaign follows whereby they paint us so black and project every bit of who THEY are, what THEY "did", in a believable commentary to the unknowing replacement and the masses who support this vulnerable, needy, believable waif.  That same vulnerable, needy, believable waif that captured us that way as well.

Are they happy? No

Are they with the love of their life now?  No

Are they mirroring the replacement and living out their repeated fantasy/idealization that is riddled in need and has nothing to do with love? Yes.

Will it last? No 

Will she come back to you? Very likely.

Will it ever go back to the way we all wished it could be. The place of just caring and sharing such good? Not likely and have not found ONE instance on this board of thousands otherwise.

Once they split, the r/s never goes back to that place. That was a real place for us, but a fantasy for them.

When they recycle us, they do so out of fear/need. Not love. Their new supply/replacement is falling off the idealization pedestal and our ex's mask is becoming to heavy to hold up. They reach back, they reach out. For NEED.

But we believe it is because they realized, they awoken, they had the big Ah-ha moment of the greatest love they lost.

Then, the patterns continue as the Non believes every word they are hearing often through tears, and is so relieved (temporarily) of the immense pain of the horrific loss. Of the person we genuinely loved and care for. Who just left us.

The patterns will repeat and get worse and more painful each time you allow a recycle. And we all have been in that place of desperately wanting to be with our ex's again. And largely we have done so here and recycled.

Do they realize what they lost? On some levels, yes. They think of us but not in the way we do of them.

Were we likely the only person who ever loved them the way they truly have always wanted to be loved? Yes. And that is the painful paradox of how seriously imbedded this mental disorder is.

And the irony is, that's why they left. They desperately want to be loved for who they are. To be loved in a way that they can stop mirroring and can be safe in being "someone." To stop being afraid. Insecure. Alone. Empty. Unconditionally loved without any pretense.

They always have wanted this.  And they found just that in us.

The disorder wins every time.

[LimboFL]

Wow, cared, you summed it up beautifully. That is obviously the hardest part, that we could give them what they want and need so desperately but that they just aren't able to process and accept it. That is what hurts we non's the most. Thank you for taking the time and I appreciate everyone's input because the conversation, as hoped went so much further than simple recounts of "what happens next for the people we love, do they find happiness?".

I so wish that there was either a pill that I could give her or that I could delete these files. The former would be the option most desired.

[HappyNihilist]

it sounds like you genuinely cared for this person and that you only had her best interest in mind.  It is unfortunate that she couldn't see that at the time, chances are she hasn't had a lot of that in her life. 

Bingo! The truth is you, I , so many others here GENUINELY cared for our expBPDs, saw the beauty beneath the behaviors, and empathized, cared... .very much so... .about the person. 

We loved. In a very real way, unconditionally and their disorder kicked into high gear. Bc, they did NOT have a lot of that in their lives. And they could not trust it.

So true, Cared.

Yes, we loved, empathized, cared about our partners. I would have ripped my heart from my chest and handed it to my exBPDbf if he had asked. I still love, empathize, and care about him.

But all of my love, caring, understanding, acceptance, etc., will not overcome his disorder. I can never give him what he needs, because only he can do that for himself. And he could never give me what I need while he's still struggling with his disorder.

Love, sadly, does not in fact conquer all.

[hurting300]

I don't think none of my exes relationships lasted over 18 months. I always say we dated two years, but it was really off and on. I broke up with her two months in . Then got back together many months later. And during that time she was talking to an ex of hers. Once he died at 39 years old, she called me. And back we were.

[CloseToFreedom]

She's two weeks in now, although they're seeing each other a few weeks longer is my guess.

Before our relationship, she had relationships that lasted around half a year.

During our 4,5 year relationship, we broke up each time after half a year, sometimes shorter, sometimes a bit longer.

So I guess its interesting to see what happens in half a year. But the thing is, I hope that by then, I'm not interested in it at all.

[downwhim]

Have to honestly say a lot of these women are so aggressive with my ex that he has a supply around him. Good for him! Me, first date tonight. Half way looking forward to it half way not wanting to go... .It has taken so much to work on healing up. I am tired of the fact that we pick up the pieces and they can just move on to whatever the next gig is. Whew...

[myself]

we pick up the pieces and they can just move on to whatever the next gig is.

By picking up our pieces, we can put them back together better than they were before, with the bonus of most likely having less pieces we'll need to pick up in the future. By not picking up their pieces, pwBPD lose more and more of themselves, and the chances to better their lives, with the future filled with much more of this. It's beneficial to solve the puzzle of ourselves.

[Caredverymuch]

it sounds like you genuinely cared for this person and that you only had her best interest in mind.  It is unfortunate that she couldn't see that at the time, chances are she hasn't had a lot of that in her life. 

Bingo! The truth is you, I , so many others here GENUINELY cared for our expBPDs, saw the beauty beneath the behaviors, and empathized, cared... .very much so... .about the person. 

We loved. In a very real way, unconditionally and their disorder kicked into high gear. Bc, they did NOT have a lot of that in their lives. And they could not trust it.

So true, Cared.

Yes, we loved, empathized, cared about our partners. I would have ripped my heart from my chest and handed it to my exBPDbf if he had asked. I still love, empathize, and care about him.

But all of my love, caring, understanding, acceptance, etc., will not overcome his disorder. I can never give him what he needs, because only he can do that for himself. And he could never give me what I need while he's still struggling with his disorder.

Love, sadly, does not in fact conquer all.

Limbo and HappyNi,  True love, which is intimacy, meaning: IN-TO-ME-SEE and, unconditionally still love that me, does not win in a BPD r/s.  That love triggers. And, we know the rest... .

We gave them what they needed.  They just cannot sustain it.

There is a part of me that will always love my ex in a way that I could never love another but I am worth more and healthy r/s is about two ppl. Not one.   to you both.

[HappyNihilist]

Limbo and HappyNi,  True love, which is intimacy, meaning: IN-TO-ME-SEE and, unconditionally still love that me, does not win in a BPD r/s.  That love triggers. And, we know the rest... .

You're absolutely right, intimacy triggers the abandonment/engulfment fears in a pwBPD. That's one of the great sadnesses of the disorder. They want love (we all do), but the very thing they crave so desperately is what triggers their worst, deepest fears and old trauma.

We gave them what they needed.  They just cannot sustain it.

The truth is that no, we can never give them what they need. Because those unmet needs that they're trying to fulfill via their desperate attachments-- those are deep, core, soul wounds that no one but the pwBPD him-/herself can resolve.

We gave them what we need, instead.

[paperlung]

Replacement #1: She was having an online affair with somebody who lived thousands of miles away. I broke up with her once I found this out (I checked her Skype conversations). A few days later he flew to my country to stay with her. After one night together, she calls me up and tells me she made a mistake and that she loves me and wants me back. He flies home, but then starts to miss him, now she doesn't know who she wants to be with. I'm like, "This is crazy. Just go with him. I can't take this." So he flies back over to be with her. 4 days later she blows up my phone telling me how she needs my help/that what she is doing isn't right, ect. All of this drama took place in like a month. So he flies home AGAIN and I promise her I'll help her find therapy/treatment, but that I don't want to be in a closed-relationship with her anymore, at least not until she gets her crap together.

Replacement#2: Couple months later, while I am still seeing her, trying to get her help (help that she asked of me for), she goes behind my back and starts chatting up some other guy on the internet who also lives hundreds of miles away in another country. She had been chatting with him for just a couple days, but she had already fallen for him and was planning on meeting him (he was gonna drive up to meet her), and that if they hit it off, she would move down to the States to live with him. I was like, "OK, this defiantly it. See you later. I'm done. Don't talk to me again." That relationship was long distance for a couple months until she finally did move down to the States with him. Only problem was, she could only stay one month. She wanted to stay 6, but couldn't. So she planned on marrying him to she could stay there for good. Days before the wedding, the guy calls it off, and drives her him, LOL. That relationship lasted a few months, but it was mostly long-distance.

Replacement #3: On the rebound after getting her heart broken, she finds somebody new off an online dating site who lived on island, maybe 40-50 miles away. He takes a boat over to meet her, I guess she falls for him right away, and within a month, she moves to the island to live with him. That relationship lasted a year.

Replacement #4: Some Tinder guy she casually dated for a month. He turned out to be crazy and abusive when at first she said he appeared normal. It was after that experience that she moved away from the island and back to my area.

Replacement #?: She was casually seeing an ex-boyfriend and some guy off Tinder for a month.

Replacement #5: Some guy she met off another dating site. Think the relationship lasted maybe 10 days tops. I believe he dumped her. Dunno the details.


Pretty sure she has slept with at least 13 or 14 guys now by at the age of 23. Is that normal in this in age for a female? Haha.

[eyvindr]

There are so many great insights in this thread -- so glad you started it, LimboFL.

I'm sorry  you're wrestling with the emotional fallout. It's challenging as hell, and seems to go on forever at times. But it does get better, and this site is a good and safe place to participate in as you work through your thoughts. At least in my case, I've learned that when I've taken an emotional hit, I always make better more steady progress when I have people to talk to -- and, when it comes to healing post-BPD-r-ship, unless you're talking to an experienced therapist or professionals in the mental health field, no one can quote understand what you've been through, besides others like yourself who have experienced it firsthand. This kind of recovery really is a struggle. As if the r-ship wasn't hard enough, and the break-up wasn't painful enough, even the recovery hurts. It is as it should be -- let us remind ourselves that it hurts because our love was real.

One of the most amusing things was that one of my exBPD's most used statements, when she painted me black, was "you can tell a person's character when the chips are down." I bloody endured 4 years of constant upheaval, with brief moments of gentility and love and you use that saying to define me? When the chips were down for you, I was there.

I heard the same accusations from my ex after I left her. Everything I did for her while we were together I did out of love, with no expectation of anything in return, except appreciation. Just an appropriate portion of gratitude. Don’t get me wrong – my ex was all about “giving smiles and kind words” – she took pride in this part of herself, as if she’d identified it as the only thing she really was capable of contributing to a relationship. But that’s all it was – nice words, happy noise. In her world, I know it meant much more -- she really felt like she was doing something. And, maybe, to her damaged psyche, this really may have taken extreme effort. I have no way of knowing.

It was kind of strange, though -- how she had what felt like a very inconsistent relationship with language. The way she used it, to both communicate and to confuse, or, rather, to obfuscate -- one minute she acted like words were solid tangible things that needed to be stored and controlled, and the next she threw them around like glitter, disposable, as ephemeral and meaningless as smoke. Made me crazy.

When my ex got food poisoning, I drove her to the ER, sat with her for 4 hours while she was being admitted, and spent the entire night in a chair in her room, instead of going home. When she had a major anxiety attack, I took her to the ER, sat with her while she was evaluated and when she was admitted for observation after being Dx’d as bipolar, I visited her for hours every day until she was released. In better times, I hung out with her and her D8 on many an evening, playing kid games and making gingerbread houses when I could have been doing other things that would have been more interesting to me (if not more fun) – not to mention putting up with her insatiable insecurities and non-stop mood swings. I did all of that – willingly, without question – and still I’d get accused of not caring about her, or wanting to see other people. Unbelievably frustrating.

I agree with you, Limbo -- they're all different.

While I reserve the right to change my mind, right now I simply can't muster hate. She never called the cops, she never stole from me, she had a moral foundation, she apologized and felt remorse, we had plenty of gentle moments etc etc. That doesn't mean that I wasn't mentally beaten down, that there weren't rages etc etc, so I think it depends on the individuals.

My ex was similar -- and I think it's what kept me trying for so long in the r-ship. Still, she used to use extreme BPD dsyfunctional behaviors as examples of what a terrific partner she was -- when we'd argue, she reiterated again and again and again how lucky I was to be in a r-ship "with a good woman who doesn't cheat, or steal or do drugs." I've come to think that this was a little crack in her armor -- she was very high-functioning, and I'm pretty sure is aware that she's somewhere on the BPD spectrum, but I think she id'd some of the behaviors typical of BPD that she didn't engage in and used them as her get-out-of-BPD-free card.

Caredverymuch – you pretty much summed up the entire arc of my r-ship in your post! I went through every phase that you describe.

It sounds like you genuinely cared for this person and that you only had her best interest in mind.  It is unfortunate that she couldn't see that at the time, [bi]chances are she hasn't had a lot of that in her life[/b].

Bingo! The truth is you, I , so many others here GENUINELY cared for our expBPDs, saw the beauty beneath the behaviors, and empathized, cared... .very much so... .about the person. 

We loved. In a very real way, unconditionally and their disorder kicked into high gear. Bc, they did NOT have a lot of that in their lives. And they could not trust it. Even while it was in the most beautiful place, their disorder shifted into protective mode and they projected and left us.

They replace not out of love, happiness, or glee. They replace to smoother the intense hurt, fear, shame of really processing the loss. The loss they caused but their mind replays it very differently. Their self projections are believed and they dissociate the truth of who we were to them. The pain is far too great for them to process reality that way. That's why you read the same stories here over and over. The same patterns. Up and leave shocked partners who genuinely loved them seemingly overnight and pick right up with someone new. Often times a horrific distortion campaign follows whereby they paint us so black and project every bit of who THEY are, what THEY "did," in a believable commentary to the unknowing replacement and the masses who support this vulnerable, needy, believable waif.  That same vulnerable, needy, believable waif that captured us that way as well.

Are they happy? No

Are they with the love of their life now?  No

Are they mirroring the replacement and living out their repeated fantasy/idealization that is riddled in need and has nothing to do with love? Yes.

Will it last? No 

Will she come back to you? Very likely.

Will it ever go back to the way we all wished it could be? The place of just caring and sharing such good? Not likely and have not found ONE instance on this board of thousands otherwise.

Once they split, the r/s never goes back to that place. That was a real place for us, but a fantasy for them.

When they recycle us, they do so out of fear/need. Not love. Their new supply/replacement is falling off the idealization pedestal and our ex's mask is becoming to heavy to hold up. They reach back, they reach out. For NEED.

But we believe it is because they realized, they awoken, they had the big Ah-ha moment of the greatest love they lost.

Then, the patterns continue as the Non believes every word they are hearing often through tears, and is so relieved (temporarily) of the immense pain of the horrific loss. Of the person we genuinely loved and care for. Who just left us.

The patterns will repeat and get worse and more painful each time you allow a recycle. And we all have been in that place of desperately wanting to be with our ex's again. And largely we have done so here and recycled.

Do they realize what they lost? On some levels, yes. They think of us but not in the way we do of them.



Were we likely the only person who ever loved them the way they truly have always wanted to be loved? Yes. And that is the painful paradox of how seriously imbedded this mental disorder is.

And the irony is, that's why they left. They desperately want to be loved for who they are. To be loved in a way that they can stop mirroring and can be safe in being "someone." To stop being afraid. Insecure. Alone. Empty. Unconditionally loved without any pretense.

They always have wanted this.  And they found just that in us.

The disorder wins every time.

SO well said, Cared. Thank you.

LimboFL – sounds like you haven’t seen the film, Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind – which is about this:

I so wish that there was either a pill that I could give her or that I could delete these files. The former would be the option most desired.

You should watch it.

HappyNihilist -- I completely relate to this:

Yes, we loved, empathized, cared about our partners. I would have ripped my heart from my chest and handed it to my exBPDbf if he had asked. I still love, empathize, and care about him.

But all of my love, caring, understanding, acceptance, etc., will not overcome his disorder. I can never give him what he needs, because only he can do that for himself. And he could never give me what I need while he's still struggling with his disorder.

Love, sadly, does not in fact conquer all.

I learned that from my ex-wife, my first BPD. It was a harsh and sobering lesson. In retrospect, though, having been through that is what has prevented me from marrying another pwBPD.

Similarly, this --

The truth is -- life is not fair. Expectations otherwise only lead to suffering.

So true. It is what it is. Hang in there, everyone.

[ReluctantSurvivor]

So the question is, why does love look like suffering and self-sacrifice to you?

This quote is where I am at right now with things.  My answer:  I grew up in a dysfunctional household where my marginally functional alcoholic father would have my mother in tears more times than I can remember.  No overt physical abuse but the toxic energy of emotional abuse was ever present.  My mind has been wired to accept this level of dysfunction as what feels like home.  Something to work on for sure.


As far as my exBPD's replacements so far well I only know some of the story, lord knows there could be more. 

1st rebound she hooked up with 17 days after walking away from our engagement, moved in with him after one date.  It went to hell after 4 months.  Turns out he was cheating on her, I guess she found an even bigger predator than herself.

2nd rebound seems to have come and went in weeks, she probably got used again.

She now appears to be cutting her teeth on rebound number 3 with a guy that looks like an even bigger emotional train wreck than her. less than a month on this one so far.  BPD / BPD quiet possibly.  I hope it doesn't end with a suicide.

HappyNihilist it is nice to see another KMFDM fan,  KMFDM sucks! 

[goateeki]

LimboFL: "if she ever wonders if she lost that man that could have endured most of it and would still love her... ."

This is going to sound harsh but my god, dude.  Listen to yourself.  Why would you want to be that guy?  Relationships shouldn't be a test of the human spirit.

For nearly two decades I put up with what I can only call insanity.  That's what it was.  I know it now.  I know it in a certain, clinical way.  All of that time, I was convincing myself that I was one awesome guy, the only guy who could ever really understand her, the only guy who could do that (sh*%@y) job.

But it shouldn't be a job.  You shouldn't have to be heroic.  You shouldn't have to constantly dig deep just to be in a relationship.  You shouldn't have to endure anything.   

I'm divorced and out.  I will say this.  The woman I am now with? It doesn't take a lot of effort. It's peaceful and calm.  We spend huge amounts of time just talking and being mellow and loving each other.  She is herself with me, and I am myself with her.  Neither of us has the slightest impulse to "react" to anything.  There is not a trace of need or anxiety.  Both of us have said "Maybe this is how it should be."

Relationships should be a net positive to both participants.  You know how people say relationships take work? I think that's BS.  Relationships between mature people who have emotional resources are not work.  They're a pleasure.

[eyvindr]

goateeki --

AMEN. THANK YOU for posting this.

I'm divorced and out.  I will say this.  The woman I am now with? It doesn't take a lot of effort. It's peaceful and calm.  We spend huge amounts of time just talking and being mellow and loving each other.  She is herself with me, and I am myself with her.  Neither of us has the slightest impulse to "react" to anything.  There is not a trace of need or anxiety.  Both of us have said "Maybe this is how it should be."

Relationships should be a net positive to both participants.  You know how people say relationships take work? I think that's BS.  Relationships between mature people who have emotional resources are not work.  They're a pleasure.

I don't want to change your implied meaning here, but I bet you're overstating a little -- maybe, r-ships are work, but if it's a good r-ship, so is the work. In other words, the r-ship work feels more like the r-ship, and less like some kind of futile attempt to squeeze some drop of joy out of a charred tissue. Like, you can actually tell each other how you feel, and how you feel about each other, but it doesn't take over the entire relationship, or inevitably open up some nest of crazy dysfunctional hornets!

I have to admit -- lately, I've had to make a conscious effort to not wander onto the "Staying" boards. The stories are so horrible, and many times so familiar -- and, having left my BPD r-ship, I can't help myself from feeling critical at times of some of the feedback there. It's tough to read some of the stories, and feel the OP's pain, and then hear people suggest ways they can stay, when everything in me wants to shout, "Run! Run now! Run like hell and don't look back!" All I can do is take solace in reminding myself that they, like me, will make the decisions that are right for them, in the time that is right for them. Still, it's hard to witness.

In any case, thanks again for posting this. If nothing else, it's a good, solid reminder of why those of us in r-ships with the pwBPD who refuse to demonstrate any attempt to deal with their illness really ought to take stock of how we are spending our time, energy, love, resources and lives.

And that, if and when we do choose to shift directions, there's hope.