co parent counseling meeting today

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Ex was in a very angry mood today. She went off on the only reason I am seeking more time with the boys is that she will pay me child support. She went on how she will not be able to afford that and live in the house she just purchased. She went into how I am abusive, how hard she works, she wants to  move on with her life and wants no part of me and my controlling ways. She went on about how she wouldn't be able to deduct both boys from her tax return, they would get kicked out of their school, blah blah blah. The counselor couldn't contain her and I really didn't care. She was all over the place with all the old accusations all rolled into one big rant. I pretty much sat there and let her go on. I did point out several things that she said were not true but did not elaborate since she just raised her voice when I tried to speak. I figured if the counselor couldn't calm her down I wasn't even going to try.

I did thank ex for getting a water dechlorinator at her place for S11. His skin completely cleared up without any meds or lotions. No sign anywhere. It is the first time that has happened in years.

There was a few minutes left and the counselor said this would be our last meeting unless either one of us wanted more meetings. I said I was fine with this being the last meeting and ex said the same. I shook his hand and thanked him for his time. I walked out of the office and had my audio recorder in hand. I made sure ex saw me turn it on. She didn't come near me.

[david]

Ex was in a very angry mood today. She went off on the only reason I am seeking more time with the boys is that she will pay me child support. She went on how she will not be able to afford that and live in the house she just purchased. She went into how I am abusive, how hard she works, she wants to  move on with her life and wants no part of me and my controlling ways. She went on about how she wouldn't be able to deduct both boys from her tax return, they would get kicked out of their school, blah blah blah. The counselor couldn't contain her and I really didn't care. She was all over the place with all the old accusations all rolled into one big rant. I pretty much sat there and let her go on. I did point out several things that she said were not true but did not elaborate since she just raised her voice when I tried to speak. I figured if the counselor couldn't calm her down I wasn't even going to try.

I did thank ex for getting a water dechlorinator at her place for S11. His skin completely cleared up without any meds or lotions. No sign anywhere. It is the first time that has happened in years.

There was a few minutes left and the counselor said this would be our last meeting unless either one of us wanted more meetings. I said I was fine with this being the last meeting and ex said the same. I shook his hand and thanked him for his time. I walked out of the office and had my audio recorder in hand. I made sure ex saw me turn it on. She didn't come near me.

[livednlearned]

Were you expecting the counselor to end the sessions?

[ForeverDad]

So she's throwing child support in as an accusation.  One son will age out of the system in less than 2 years and the other in about 6 years.  How astounding it is that some people feel CS is horrible and unconscionable for a mother to pay... .it's only dads who are supposed to fork it over.

Yet it is her who is focusing on it, I suspect you haven't made a peep about CS.  If a dad did that, he would be raked over the coals for it, we'll see if the counselor reports her attitude to court.  The counselor is to make a report, right?

[Waddams]

I'd state I'd be willing to waive CS from her or games with whatever the state's standard calcs to either make CS as close to or equal to zero as possible.  In my state, we could zero her income, or put in minimum wage, then play games with custody percentages and costs for insurance premiums, etc. and make it work out.  That way she can't complain about you just want to make her pay you, which really translates as "He's just trying to hurt me."  Which I'm sure she genuinely feels and fears. 

[ForeverDad]

In some states you can't deal away CS calculations and obligations.  I recall when my divorce was settled that I paid my ex alimony for a few years but no CS.  My lawyer said she could still come back to court later and demand CS so we wrote in the settlement that if she did seek CS during that period then the alimony amount would be revisited for adjustment.  (By doing that it saved us taxes.  With alimony the tax burden was on her as recipient but her income was claimed to be so low that it didn't impact her, so in effect the govt didn't get taxes on the alimony.)

I don't think David should counter himself before he even knows how much ex would squawk in court about CS, how credible it would be and her ability to pay.  As I recall, she works in the health care industry so it's not like she isn't working and making decent income.  And if she doesn't earn her income potential - what could be 'imputed' - it's probably because she pulled back on her work time.

The last time I was in court, I had equal time and was seeking majority time, I included documents in the filing with post office receipts showing I mailed her requests for reimbursement and wrote she hadn't paid anything.  During the case my lawyer said not to push that piece since he didn't want it to divert into Dad Doesn't Want to Pay CS.  It never came up during the testimony.  I did get majority time but only during the school year.  And the decision said that since I didn't prove I had requested reimbursements - though the court had all the papers - then she didn't have to pay her 17% portion.  My lawyer said the magistrate had to let ex win something.

[david]

I was under the impression that counseling was to continue until all issues were resolved or we were in court which is scheduled for June or July. I think the counselor realized little could be accomplished since ex was always attacking me personally and he was constantly keeping her on task. I think he just got tired of it. I believe he has to submit some paper to the courts.

I had proposed to my atty several years ago that if ex gave me majority time I would not seek any child support ever and also let her deduct both kids on her taw return. My atty was adamant that , in our state, children can not be considered chattel and the judge would be extremely pissed if he ever got word of such a deal. In fact I could get in trouble for that in court.

I did ask ex if she was upset with her having to pay child support, the amount, both, or something else. Her reply was that I was abusive and she shouldn't be punished for my abuse.

I honestly tried to address anything she brought up in these meetings as a show of good faith. I would have been majorly shocked if any real positive results occurred. Ex is just as angry as she always has been and I do not see that changing until she assumes room temperature. I noticed it when we were married but it was never laser focused on me as now.

I haven't tried to figure out what would happen with cs if I was given 50/50. If I assume what ex claimed was true then I would be putting a large portion in a stock fund for the boys. I figure the first two years would be mostly for S16 and college. After that I would put it in a fund for S11.

Ex ranted for most of this meeting. Prior to that the counselor had a pretty good handle on her. I actually thought of simply walking out but figured this was the first time the counselor permitted this to go on so I would hang in there. I never attacked her in any way. I don't know if she was trying to provoke me or the counselor wanted to see if I would get provoked.

[bravhart1]

Just want to throw this out there to see if it might resonate with you a bit.

If she is working, earning decent enough money to buy a house etc. and is not awarded kids full time for what ever reason, why should you even care if she is upset by asking for the child support you deserve?

I think that she will be angry and bitter and awful no matter what you do. Take what ever support is owed you, who cares if she throws out accusations about your motives. These people will find something to be angry about, they will find more accusations.

Don't allow her temper tantrum to move you away from your rights. If the loudest bully in the room wins, then we aren't doing what's best for us, or our kids. Dads have the right to be paid the same as moms. I think offering her a financial "settlement" is wrong in principle.

And lastly, do you think for a second that she would not go after every penny she is owed if the shoe were on the other foot? She would not care about you, your finances, or feelings.

And if her reasoning for not wanting to give you more time is that you want CS then could it not be just as easily said that her reason for not giving you more time is that she does not want to pay? Why is her greed more palpable than yours?

[livednlearned]

I had proposed to my atty several years ago that if ex gave me majority time I would not seek any child support ever and also let her deduct both kids on her taw return. My atty was adamant that , in our state, children can not be considered chattel and the judge would be extremely pissed if he ever got word of such a deal. In fact I could get in trouble for that in court.

This is the same where I am. Ex wrote an email saying he would drop his appeals if I would let him have more visitation. My L said that attorneys cannot ethically mix child custody with $$$, nor could she or would she engage in bartering like this. Ex wrote back to say then he would pay less child support because he got to see S13 less. L wrote back to say, You do realize that I have documented this correspondence and that this can be used in court.

david, I wonder if the counselor canceled the sessions because your ex crossed the line about CS. She was focused on the thing that bothered her -- losing money. Not on what is best for the kids?

[PinkieV]

DH and I offered to forego CS if he was awarded custody, and our lawyer told us the same thing -

you are not allowed to offer it up in exchange for the children.  uBPDew's lawyer met us in the

hall after a continued hearing and told us that if we paid for SS14's flights for the next year,

she'd sign.  So we went for it, and asked for the minimum CS of $50 per month.  She of course

countered with all flights paid for until he graduates, and our lawyer told hers "see you in court".

Her lawyer saw the writing on the wall, and basically threatened her that if she didn't sign, he'd

remove himself from the case the morning of the trial.  So in the end, we did offer up money to

get him, I guess.  The good news is, CS will be reviewed this summer and we're asking for as

much as we can get - which will all go into SS14's college fund.  And, we don't think she's going

to be able to afford her half of the flights, so visitation may not happen too.   

[Ishenuts]

I pray for the day that my parental coordinator shakes my hand "Goodbye"! She is useless and seems to want to placate my uNPDexh.  He has raged at me, called me names, lied & lied & lied, called meetings every time I say, "no" to his many ridiculous requests. He has offered me money to agree to him (extortion), etc. We do not have a contract with an end date. I asked her when it ends, and she says,"when all the issues are resolved" - in other words = 6 more years of this verbal, emotional and financial abuse.

One thing I do know is that she can only address items in the parenting plan, and nothing from the divorce decree. She can't address matters of child support or alimony, or change the parenting time %, or financial issues, such as who pays for extracurricular activities. We do have joint physical and joint legal, so we still have plenty to discuss BECAUSE HE HAS NPD and has to "win" every single disagreement! 

David - if you ever find out why the PC ended your sessions, please let me know.