She is asking me to come home

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

give up an update and checking in... .

Saturday she slept all day and night.  I went over after work to log in a few invoices for work and to take our son to meet some friends at a movie and pick him up afterward.  I also grabbed some flowers on the way and she asked me to pick up some shrimp for her.  I cleaned up the kitchen and did some dishes since it was obvious she was not doing anything but sleeping for days.  I did and that was pretty much that for the day.

Yesterday morning I get a text where she is asking me to come home and she does not want to live like this.  I am cautious and she does not want to go into all of it then so I figure, its a start and not to push it.  I go home and for most part things are fine.  We interact and have lunch, sit around, watch the Super Bowl.  Everything for most part is nice.  I mean about 4 times she made some mentions and basic attacks about my mother, and I just did not acknowledge them.  At 11 pm though, like clockwork, she starts asking me what I told my mother.  I told her that she was curious why I was staying at her house and so I had mentioned that my wife and I were having problems.  I had also mention it might be for awhile as my wife was talking divorce.  I talked some how I was hurting and cared for my wife and my mother never said anything judgmental or gave advice or said a negative word about my wife.  My wife upon hearing this was fuious.  She said I can NEVER say anything about her or the kids again to my family.  If I am asked, I just say I do not want to talk about it.  I cannot even tell my mother how the kids are doing. 

At this point, I attempt to explain that, she is asking me to have no communication about my life to those I care about and its somewhat isolating me.  It is not that I am gossiping about her or anything.  I can see quickly that is going nowhere so I just say okay to her.  She then goes into what am I going to do about my job as there was some question of losing a client.  I just said there was no further mention of it and I do not know what is going to happen but I am working my tail off to keep them happy.  Wife says "you can see how I never believe you on this because its always about nearly losing them and you getting stressed out". I admit it can be confusing for her.  She goes on about how am I going to support us, etc. 

At this point, I feel its being unfair.  This is all the stuff we always argue about and its all about how I am going to change.  How I am to fix things... I mean she does not have a job and she is asking me about making more money when I am making good money currently?  I do not say this of course.  I just state that I love her and I care about her, and I am doing everything in my power to work through things and keep things going, but I too have feeling and emotions and this whole dialogue is not fair, and I am leaving.  She says that is my solution is to just walk away from all our problems.  This worries me that I am doing just that, but I do not feel i can have a conversation that is not one sided about them.

I get up and pack up to go as its about midnight.  She says I cant leave that its horrible being there alone and she is just going to sleep.  I just go to sleep too.

I am scared, I am not sure if I am doing things correctly here.  I worry about this whole dynamic and if I am running from problems, or ignoring problems, or refusing to accept responsiblity for my part.

o and the dog pissed on my stuff while I slept last night just to show that its his house now... .(thats true, but joke)

[hurthusband]

give up an update and checking in... .

Saturday she slept all day and night.  I went over after work to log in a few invoices for work and to take our son to meet some friends at a movie and pick him up afterward.  I also grabbed some flowers on the way and she asked me to pick up some shrimp for her.  I cleaned up the kitchen and did some dishes since it was obvious she was not doing anything but sleeping for days.  I did and that was pretty much that for the day.

Yesterday morning I get a text where she is asking me to come home and she does not want to live like this.  I am cautious and she does not want to go into all of it then so I figure, its a start and not to push it.  I go home and for most part things are fine.  We interact and have lunch, sit around, watch the Super Bowl.  Everything for most part is nice.  I mean about 4 times she made some mentions and basic attacks about my mother, and I just did not acknowledge them.  At 11 pm though, like clockwork, she starts asking me what I told my mother.  I told her that she was curious why I was staying at her house and so I had mentioned that my wife and I were having problems.  I had also mention it might be for awhile as my wife was talking divorce.  I talked some how I was hurting and cared for my wife and my mother never said anything judgmental or gave advice or said a negative word about my wife.  My wife upon hearing this was fuious.  She said I can NEVER say anything about her or the kids again to my family.  If I am asked, I just say I do not want to talk about it.  I cannot even tell my mother how the kids are doing. 

At this point, I attempt to explain that, she is asking me to have no communication about my life to those I care about and its somewhat isolating me.  It is not that I am gossiping about her or anything.  I can see quickly that is going nowhere so I just say okay to her.  She then goes into what am I going to do about my job as there was some question of losing a client.  I just said there was no further mention of it and I do not know what is going to happen but I am working my tail off to keep them happy.  Wife says "you can see how I never believe you on this because its always about nearly losing them and you getting stressed out". I admit it can be confusing for her.  She goes on about how am I going to support us, etc. 

At this point, I feel its being unfair.  This is all the stuff we always argue about and its all about how I am going to change.  How I am to fix things... I mean she does not have a job and she is asking me about making more money when I am making good money currently?  I do not say this of course.  I just state that I love her and I care about her, and I am doing everything in my power to work through things and keep things going, but I too have feeling and emotions and this whole dialogue is not fair, and I am leaving.  She says that is my solution is to just walk away from all our problems.  This worries me that I am doing just that, but I do not feel i can have a conversation that is not one sided about them.

I get up and pack up to go as its about midnight.  She says I cant leave that its horrible being there alone and she is just going to sleep.  I just go to sleep too.

I am scared, I am not sure if I am doing things correctly here.  I worry about this whole dynamic and if I am running from problems, or ignoring problems, or refusing to accept responsiblity for my part.

o and the dog pissed on my stuff while I slept last night just to show that its his house now... .(thats true, but joke)

[formflier]

 

Hurt... .good update... .as in well written... .well explained.  I think we can point you in the right direction.

Right now it appears to me that your wife is attempting to control you... .she is trampling your boundaries.

You do not need to explain or justify your boundaries  Especially those that we help you work through on these sites... .because we can help you make sure you are doing this in an emotionally healthy way.

  I cleaned up the kitchen and did some dishes since it was obvious she was not doing anything but sleeping for days.  I did and that was pretty much that for the day.

If you did this in the context of helping to teach your son (or kids) how to do chores and be responsible... .then this is probably ok.

If you "saved" her from being irresponsible and sleeping instead of acting like and adult... .and taking care of her house... .then this may have enabled bad behavior.

This is probably a minor point... .and not your top priority... but since you wrote about it... .I figured I would give you some feedback.

Thoughts?

Yesterday morning I get a text where she is asking me to come home and she does not want to live like this.  I am cautious and she does not want to go into all of it then so I figure, its a start and not to push it.  I go home and for most part things are fine.  We interact and have lunch, sit around, watch the Super Bowl.  Everything for most part is nice.  I mean about 4 times she made some mentions and basic attacks about my mother, and I just did not acknowledge them. 

Up until now... .I think you did fine with this.  She was most likely baiting.  In the future... ."help me understand why you want to discuss my mother... ." might be a way to get some emotions out there that you can validate.

"I choose not to discuss my mother right now... ."  is another way... .said evenly and gently.  If she persists... .leave the room.

At 11 pm though, like clockwork, she starts asking me what I told my mother.  I told her that she was curious why I was staying at her house and so I had mentioned that my wife and I were having problems.  I had also mention it might be for awhile as my wife was talking divorce.  I talked some how I was hurting and cared for my wife and my mother never said anything judgmental or gave advice or said a negative word about my wife.  My wife upon hearing this was fuious.  She said I can NEVER say anything about her or the kids again to my family.  If I am asked, I just say I do not want to talk about it.  I cannot even tell my mother how the kids are doing. 

That conversation is between you and your mother... .your wife is trying to "control" who you can and can't talk to.  Don't fight out it... .just don't participate in her control. 

"help me understand how you are in charge of who I choose to speak to... ."  might be a good way to have a discussion about this.

"I am capable of making decisions about who I speak to... .thank you for your concern... ."  then speak no further about it.  Leave the room if needed.

At this point, I attempt to explain that

Any time you feel compelled... or interested... in explaining something... .that should set off     

State your position... .clearly... .once... .then go about living your life. 

You can say something to the effect that you would be happy to discuss this further with a MC present... .as this is obviously something that is a big deal to both of us.  Or words to that effect... .



More later... out of time...

[formflier]

At this point, I feel its being unfair.  This is all the stuff we always argue about

If you don't want to argue about it anymore... .stop arguing about it. 

I used to think that if it was brought up... .it had to be talked about... .if my wife said "unfair" things... .that i needed to correct it... .BAD BAD BAD... .thinking.  pwBPD traits are looking for a reaction... .don't give it to them.  Respond in an emotionally healthy way... .and move on with your life.

  I do not say this of course. 

Good... .you are starting to get it... .you don't have to respond... .you have choices about what you say to her.

I just state that I love her and I care about her, and I am doing everything in my power to work through things and keep things going, but I too have feeling and emotions and this whole dialogue is not fair, and I am leaving.

Drop saying your are leaving... .unless you really are done.  Then... .don't change you mind.  Triggering abandonment fears isn't good for anyone... .

Also... easy on saying that you love her... .depending on her mood... .it can be invalidating... . 

Do you understand SET format?  Try to use that... .with the T being  "i love you... "

  She says that is my solution is to just walk away from all our problems.  This worries me that I am doing just that, but I do not feel i can have a conversation that is not one sided about them.

You get to decide when you stay... and when you leave... .regardless of what she says. 

I get up and pack up to go as its about midnight.  She says I cant leave that its horrible being there alone and she is just going to sleep.  I just go to sleep too.

OK... .she most likely feels like she "won"... by "preventing" you from going.  We'll never know for sure.

My recommendation is to decide to stay for few weeks... and work tools as hard as you can... .DO NOT let her control you.  Do not tell her that you are resisting control... .just do it.  She will get a hint.

I am scared, I am not sure if I am doing things correctly here.  I worry about this whole dynamic and if I am running from problems, or ignoring problems, or refusing to accept responsiblity for my part.

Don't be scared... .or... .try to control the emotion.  Focus on making an emotionally healthy decision... .live your life... .she may come along with you... .or she may not.

What is status of MC or T for either one of you... .I don't remember at the moment.

[momtara]

I think it sounds like a very good, positive conversation.  I think maybe sometimes you give her too information.  My therapist said this of me too.  :)o you have to tell her about private conversations with your family?  Maybe there's a nice way to say it.  You do notice that she interrogates you, then criticizes your answers, but the reverse is never true.  You didn't ask anything about her.

I think maybe you would have regretted leaving if you had.

"but I too have feeling and emotions and this whole dialogue is not fair"

Very true.  On some level she knows that.  But her illness may not ever let her do anything about what she knows.

I don't think things can go on like this forever.  I hope she has some sort of breakthru.  Maybe needs to see a new T, maybe you can go to a new T together who is an expert in BPD, one at a university hospital who's a specialist?

I think if you really did leave, you'd have your regrets, go back and forth, at first, but eventually you'd realize what a breath of fresh air it is to not be scrutinized and criticized all the time.  Still, if you have any change of things getting better, someone needs to be helping - someone who's on both of your side, someone sharp and aggressive, not the standard pussyfooting marriage therapist.

[ForeverDad]

Yesterday morning I get a text where she is asking me to come home and she does not want to live like this.  I am cautious and she does not want to go into all of it then so I figure, its a start and not to push it.  I go home and for most part things are fine.  We interact and have lunch, sit around, watch the Super Bowl.  Everything for most part is nice.  I mean about 4 times she made some mentions and basic attacks about my mother, and I just did not acknowledge them.

Up until now... .I think you did fine with this.  She was most likely baiting.  In the future... ."help me understand why you want to discuss my mother... ." might be a way to get some emotions out there that you can validate.

"I choose not to discuss my mother right now... ."  is another way... .said evenly and gently.  If she persists... .leave the room.

At 11 pm though, like clockwork, she starts asking me what I told my mother.{interrogtion}  I told her that she was curious why I was staying at her house and so I had mentioned that my wife and I were having problems.  I had also mention it might be for awhile as my wife was talking divorce.  I talked some how I was hurting and cared for my wife and my mother never said anything judgmental or gave advice or said a negative word about my wife.  My wife upon hearing this was furious. {'extinction burst' starts to restore the old 'normal'}  She said I can NEVER say anything about her or the kids again to my family. {unreasonable demand}  If I am asked, I just say I do not want to talk about it. {unreasonable demand}  I cannot even tell my mother how the kids are doing. {unreasonable demand}

That conversation is between you and your mother... .your wife is trying to "control" who you can and can't talk to.  Don't fight out it... .just don't participate in her control.

"help me understand how you are in charge of who I choose to speak to... ."  might be a good way to have a discussion about this.

"I am capable of making decisions about who I speak to... .thank you for your concern... ."  then speak no further about it.  Leave the room if needed.

At this point, I attempt to explain that

Any time you feel compelled... or interested... in explaining something... .that should set off     

State your position... .clearly... .once... .then go about living your life.

You can say something to the effect that you would be happy to discuss this further with a MC present... .as this is obviously something that is a big deal to both of us.  Or words to that effect... .

Spot on.  Your boundaries still need work, but you are improving.  What she did to sabotage your efforts was slick, she (1) maneuvered you into an interrogation and then (2) ultimatum to isolate you from family and support resources.  Yes, you fell for the interrogation.  Yes, you agreed to not talk to family.  But all is not lost, at least you're becoming aware of her control tactics and, better yet, how to deal with them.

Don't lose sight of what's at stake... .you... .who you are... .are you a reasonably normal and caring man with improving boundaries for good behavior or an appeasing doormat?  (Sorry to be so blunt, but on the bright side you are becoming increasingly aware and that's a real positive.)

Be aware that she sees her control over you slipping and she is likely to try "extinction bursts", intense attempts to overwhelm your developing boundaries and force you back into your prior abject compliance and servitude.  But things are different now.  Your education and peer support over the past year is an advantage you have now that do didn't have before.

[formflier]

(Sorry to be so blunt, but on the bright side you are becoming increasingly aware and that's a real positive.)

With awareness... .you can make choices...

Consider them carefully!

[momtara]

Isolation from friends and family is very typical of verbal abusers, by the way.

[hurthusband]

I should point out that when I said leave, we both understood it was for the night.  The problem with the fighting is that she tends to do it mainly at night.  I had work in the morning and the past 2 weeks the course had been fight, then she would promise to not say anymore, then wake me for more fighting and I would end up getting no sleep and going into work in a tired state.

I was leaving, and she knew it because I did not want to argue anymore and I wanted to get sleep.  She could keep waking me up, and I could keep refusing to talk about it, but she is STILL waking me up and that is hindering my sleep.  So only way I figured was to leave.

I think we both feel that I am basically gaining the upper hand.  She is freaking out and trying to regain control and at this point, I am mainly just stating I am doing what I am doing, and she can deal with it or leave.  I just dont have energy to fight for that anymore.  This obviously is worrying her and does worry me that I might start doing it to defend unfair habits too.  Maybe I am crossing some boundaries I should not

I am just refusing to fight, I will do what I feel is best and I will give up a small portion because I do not want a relationship where I am just "winning" all the time.  Everyone needs to get their way a little even if its not fair... i think.

the thing that puzzles me is her obsession with my mother.  It is an obsession.  It is not just BP... I am a diagnosed OCD and I know obsessions and compulsions, and she is just obessed with my mother as a great villian.  She seems to always need to have one primary villian in her life and seems to think that everyone should have her on their mind 24/7

[formflier]

I am just refusing to fight,

Good... .

If I understand your post... .she likes to fight at night.  You need to gain control of where you stay... .if she can fight... and you leave... .she has the power.  You may need to try some different tactics here... .and soak up a few tired days.

But... .think about it... .

Note:  There are some on here that promote leaving... .I'm not saying they are wrong... .I'm saying you should consider the message you are sending

Idea:  change the lock on a bedroom... .not your primary bedroom.  If she wakes you up... .state clearly... .and evenly... ."I'm not talking to you about xyz right now... "   Maybe first time... .ask her if you can help her... .ask her if it can wait till the morning... .do the "help me understand... ."thing  about why now.

But... assuming she continues... .cover your ears... .lay still... .give it 10 minutes or so... .it may blow out

If that doesn't seem to work... .then get up and leave room... .state clearly... and evenly... "I need to get some sleep... .I will be available to discuss this tomorrow at 10am (or whenever)

lock the door to other bedroom... use earmuffs... as needed... .go back to sleep.

Make sure you take cell phone and have other phone with you.

History on me:  I have sleep disabilities... moving beds is not easy... .I spent a lot of time an energy "winning" my bed.  Now... .she goes off other places... .when she wants.  We haven't fought over the bed or "talking" at night in a long time... .4 or 5 months.  It's heaven... .it was worth standing my ground.

I will do what I feel is best and I will give up a small portion because I do not want a relationship where I am just "winning" all the time.  Everyone needs to get their way a little even if its not fair... i think.

Bad thinking!  Listen... if you are right and she is wrong... .don't give in.  If you are doing the emotionally healthy thing... .I recommend not giving in.

that being said... you have to be smart... .you can't fix it all at one time. So... there may be things you decided to ignore... .that is your choice... .not your obligation.

If she gets upset at never "winning"... she should make healthier choices... .

[momtara]

She's probably obsessed with your mother because your mother is someone else who competes for your attention. Verbal abusers don't want anyone to gum up their plans or their control. How dare you have support anywhere!

Keep doing what you're doing. I don't think you're crossing boundaries. I think you're just not undoing them.

[formflier]

I think you're just not undoing them.

Or pushing out your boundaries... .to where they should be.

[ColdEthyl]

I should point out that when I said leave, we both understood it was for the night.  The problem with the fighting is that she tends to do it mainly at night.  I had work in the morning and the past 2 weeks the course had been fight, then she would promise to not say anymore, then wake me for more fighting and I would end up getting no sleep and going into work in a tired state.

I was leaving, and she knew it because I did not want to argue anymore and I wanted to get sleep.  She could keep waking me up, and I could keep refusing to talk about it, but she is STILL waking me up and that is hindering my sleep.  So only way I figured was to leave.

I think we both feel that I am basically gaining the upper hand.  She is freaking out and trying to regain control and at this point, I am mainly just stating I am doing what I am doing, and she can deal with it or leave.  I just dont have energy to fight for that anymore.  This obviously is worrying her and does worry me that I might start doing it to defend unfair habits too.  Maybe I am crossing some boundaries I should not

I am just refusing to fight, I will do what I feel is best and I will give up a small portion because I do not want a relationship where I am just "winning" all the time.  Everyone needs to get their way a little even if its not fair... i think.

the thing that puzzles me is her obsession with my mother.  It is an obsession.  It is not just BP... I am a diagnosed OCD and I know obsessions and compulsions, and she is just obessed with my mother as a great villian.  She seems to always need to have one primary villian in her life and seems to think that everyone should have her on their mind 24/7

My husband has to always have a villain as well, and it cycles between a few people. They have bad feelings inside them all of the time... .sometimes they have to pin it on someone. Usually it's us... .sometimes it's a super villain.

Whomever it turns out to be, I just listen and say I understand he feels this or that... .or how it sucks to feel this or that. If I let him get it out... .he's fine.

It sounds like what she's worried about is how she looks to your mother. When my husband is in a rage, he will often tell me what I'm going to tell my coworkers. "Oh, now you can go to work and nail yourself up on that cross and tell them how terrible I am"

... .I do not speak ill of my husband... .to anyone. Even if he wasn't a pwBPD, I would not do that. I feel it is not a wife's place to bad talk her husband to others, as I'd hope he doesn't do to me. I DO post here, but this is my safe place and support system.

Do you think that's a possibility?

[hurthusband]

I think so.  She  seems to really  want my mom's attention a nd affection.  Problem is my mom's whole world isn't her.  My mom once told me a month ago that while my wife likes her now she knows she is going to mess up and fall short in my wife eyes and not be liked. My mom even offered to go to my wife's therapist with her.  Now I don't think my mom realizes she will probably hear things she doesn't like hut it's an effort.

I get home tonight and wife I'd very down.  She keeps coming back to our neighbor who she is friends then isn't friends with.  She doesn't like thst our neighbor is a push over to her husband and doesn't thinks she is trying to "push Jesus onto her".    But she kept saying how they had a super bowl party and didn't invite us and how offended she was over it and then thr fact the neighbor would mention it is appalling.  Now my wife hates her husband and we wouldn't go to their party.  The husband and my wife have clashed numerous times.  He is unhealthy and my wife is unhealthy.  But even though they are so minor in our lives and we wouldn't go she is obsessed it seems brinigng it up every hour.  That turns into how my mom is a fool and she asks if my mom has asked about her and kids... .

This is after she told me to never talk to my mom about her and my mom is scared to talk about her.  My mom backs down to nobody to a fault.  She backs down to my wife because she doesn't want me hurt.  She then makes comment "My Mom is 1000x the person your mom is".  Now she just nasty and cold to me

[hurthusband]

I'm hurting and I have nobody and I get no comfort from you"

I say it must be horrible but not sure what more I can do.

She expects more

[momtara]

You could have made the same statement about hurting and not getting comfort from your wife.  Instead, all you get is orders for who you can't talk to, criticism, etc.  What a life.  Everything you do is wrong, or right temporarily and then wrong.

You need outlets.  You certainly should talk to your relatives and anyone else.

What is her therapist doing about all this?  I've said it before:  You need someone who can really help you.

My exH and I went to two marriage counselors who did nothing.  We went to a third who was aggressive but exH then said he couldn't make those meetings.  If we'd stuck with him, he might have solved our problems more quickly and exH might have gotten the right treatment.  Instead, we ambled around with a bunch more useless counselors and ended up with a weekend where he went nuts and ended up divorced.  Of course, an aggressive counselor could just make her upset and bring things to a head, but it may be a risk to take.  And you may be able to find someone who is diplomatic BUT IS AN expert on BPD.  I talked to a BPD expert last year at a u hospital who said he could probably fix a situation within a year.  Maybe you need someone who specializes.  You're running out of options and I don't think tiptoeing forever is an option because one can only do it for so long.  What if you did lose your job or become incapacitated?  This situation is not fair to you. And you want to be in the kids' lives, I understand that.  I think that's something to consider too. 

I am trying to think of a creative solution for you because you live in constant pain and you don't deserve it.

[hurthusband]

You could have made the same statement about hurting and not getting comfort from your wife.  Instead, all you get is orders for who you can't talk to, criticism, etc.  What a life.  Everything you do is wrong, or right temporarily and then wrong.

You need outlets.  You certainly should talk to your relatives and anyone else.

What is her therapist doing about all this?  I've said it before:  You need someone who can really help you.

My exH and I went to two marriage counselors who did nothing.  We went to a third who was aggressive but exH then said he couldn't make those meetings.  If we'd stuck with him, he might have solved our problems more quickly and exH might have gotten the right treatment.  Instead, we ambled around with a bunch more useless counselors and ended up with a weekend where he went nuts and ended up divorced.  Of course, an aggressive counselor could just make her upset and bring things to a head, but it may be a risk to take.  And you may be able to find someone who is diplomatic BUT IS AN expert on BPD.  I talked to a BPD expert last year at a u hospital who said he could probably fix a situation within a year.  Maybe you need someone who specializes.  You're running out of options and I don't think tiptoeing forever is an option because one can only do it for so long.  What if you did lose your job or become incapacitated?  This situation is not fair to you. And you want to be in the kids' lives, I understand that.  I think that's something to consider too. 

I am trying to think of a creative solution for you because you live in constant pain and you don't deserve it.

The therapist she goes to is one I specifically sought out and is the only one I could find that was not just a therapist but an actual Psychologist with phd, used DBT, AND was within 2 hours of our home.  My wife has been going for 1.5 years to her.  I do not know what she is saying now, because she informed me not to contact her about her wife and update her on anything.

Last night I got home and she was down, but things seemed okay.  her saying she was down but not mad at me and would not get mad at me.  She had a beer, and by the end of dinner was upset and did not want to talk to me at all.  Saying she had said all she wanted to say to me and I knew it.  I took kids to Boy Scouts, got home and she was upset with me saying I basically had a choice... my mother or her.  I do not understand this.  My mother I work with and is very understanding, but basically I talk with her a total of 15 minutes each work day.  That is it... we do not talk outside of work, but she does own the company. 

I tell her, that the hard part is that I love her (my wife) and I care and want her to be happy, but she is the only person telling me how horrible I am and I am a monster.  Now obviously my wife knows me better than anyone... or at least should.  Certainly seen more aspects of me.  Also, at least my mother is being nice to me which is the only place I am getting any comfort currently (from real interaction).  I tell her that puts me in a bind, because its our livelihood and I do not feel it is fair to put all the financial situations on me AND at same time tell me how to address them all.  Basically, I sleep on the couch.

I took flier advice and not leave and slept on couch.  She woke me up about 4 times asking me to check on things, or get her something etc.

Then this morning at 6:30 am we get an email about our youngest who is in 7th grade, screwing around in class and not doing his work.  We go with him over what he has and does not have every night.  The previous night we went through all his teachers sites and everything to make sure everything was done and he assured us.  I get him up and he just wants to go back to sleep.  I try talking calmly and letting him know how this is not good and while he is a good kid that this sort of things affects his future.  My wife lets into him.  She is yelling at him and even slaps his leg when he is not paying attention.  I do not know if my way is getting through. Honestly, I do not think my calm way is getting through, but I do not like the way my wife is acting neither.  It is inducing fear which may work short term, but I think exacerbates problems.   Of course, son tells me that the fighting and all messes with him and I am sure that is some of the case, but i think he is passing the buck soon.  After 20 to 30 minutes of him getting yelled at and told he is a liar by my wife we get an email from teacher saying he apologizes but the homework was turned in and it was just the screwing around in class that is the problem.  Still a major problem... taking 100 photos with the school iPad and not working on the project.

Anyways, now we all better off without her, and I do not care.  She feels nothing for me.  I just do not see anything I can do for her outside of destroying my own life which seems to be what she wants.  So I do not destroy my life and it seems like I do not care.  Kids are a mess.  I am terrified about the future and everything else.

She is laying in bed now and probably wont move for the day.  I want more than anything, but 1 thing, to have a peaceful life with my wife.  That one thing though is to feel safe in my own home.  I am not scared of her killing me, I am terrified of being berated.  I feel like I am in a CIA psychological torture chamber at all times.  At same time, her life is horrible too and I feel for her.  I cannot fathom what it is like for her

[formflier]

Hang in there... .I'll make some comments on the interactions... .

The therapist she goes to is one I specifically sought out and is the only one I could find that was not just a therapist but an actual Psychologist with phd, used DBT, AND was within 2 hours of our home.  My wife has been going for 1.5 years to her.  I do not know what she is saying now, because she informed me not to contact her about her wife and update her on anything.

I think this is good... .sounds like this person has the skills.  Let her work her thing... that is only one piece of the puzzle.

Do you guys go to MC?  I think it may be a good thing to find a MC that is in the same practices as the psychologist.  That way they can communicate some on a professional level... .at least they can make sure they are not working against each other.

Last night I got home and she was down, but things seemed okay.  her saying she was down but not mad at me and would not get mad at me.  She had a beer, and by the end of dinner was upset and did not want to talk to me at all.  Saying she had said all she wanted to say to me and I knew it.  I took kids to Boy Scouts, got home and she was upset with me saying I basically had a choice... my mother or her.

What did you say?  did you "react"...   My advice is to not participate in false choices.  No personal experience here... .so maybe the crowd can help.  "I don't participate in false choices... ." (said evenly and calmly)... .or perhaps a SET... .with the T being you don't participate... .and then walk away.  Don't speak of it again

I tell her, that the hard part is that I love her (my wife) and I care and want her to be happy, but she is the only person telling me how horrible I am and I am a monster. 

If this is really how you said this... .BAD BAD BAD... .it was accusatory... judgemental... even the "i love you part" was most likely invalidating... .

Try to think about the underlying emotions she had... focus on those... validate those...   What emotions do you think she had?

Now obviously my wife knows me better than anyone... or at least should.  Certainly seen more aspects of me.  Also, at least my mother is being nice to me which is the only place I am getting any comfort currently (from real interaction).  I tell her that puts me in a bind, because its our livelihood and I do not feel it is fair to put all the financial situations on me AND at same time tell me how to address them all.  Basically, I sleep on the couch.

Skip explaining all this stuff... .

I took flier advice and not leave and slept on couch. 

Why not sleep in bed... .I missed that part... .was there an issue?

She woke me up about 4 times asking me to check on things, or get her something etc.

What kind of things? Please tell me that if they were not time sensitive... ."Honey I smell smoke from the basement... ."... .that you declined to interrupt your sleep and you would be happy to take care of them at a more appropriate hour

After 20 to 30 minutes of him getting yelled at and told he is a liar by my wife

Way too long to allow her to blather on at your kid... .even if she was right.

Has she apologized to kid for calling him a liar... .I would push this issue... but do it gently.

If refusal...

"Help me understand how we communicate to our son that your accusation was wrong and we believe him... "

  I just do not see anything I can do for her outside of destroying my own life which seems to be what she wants.  

OK... .here is a "funnyism" that I try to use... .it's been a while for this one... .

People with BPD traits are like bazookas... .they can kill you if you stand in their way... .and they can kill you if you are standing behind them.  The key is... .to get off to the side.  Us the tools to stay nimble... .and keep moving... .they want to aim their bazooka at you... .

Goal of the tools is not to take away their weapon... .but once they get frustrated trying to use it... .they may put it down and try something else.

Does the imagery work for you?

I am terrified of being berated. 

But you control this... .right?  See above example... .step out of line of fire... .

[momtara]

"I do not know what she is saying now, because she informed me not to contact her about her wife and update her on anything."

Very frustrating that you found the best person and now she doesn't know what is truly going on.  She doesn't HAVE to tell your wife that you contacted her, so why make things so difficult?  There is no court order stopping you from contacting this therapist if things get really bad.

Seems that you are at a breaking point.  Maybe that's good.  Maybe you will have to do something tough.  But you do care about the kids, and that's tough too.

Just read the other response.  Maybe your T could talk to her T?  That way you aren't doing so!

Whatever you do, it will be the right thing.

DO NOT agree in any way not to talk to your mom.  It will close off one of the few avenues of comfort you have.  People who care about you DO NOT make you choose between two or three people you love.  They don't make you give up someone who is kind to you.  That's what I had to learn and that's what I had to say to my ex.  

Waking you up is also a form of harassment and control and abuse.  

[formflier]

DO NOT agree in any way not to talk to your mom.  It will close off one of the few avenues of comfort you have.  People who care about you DO NOT make you choose between two or three people you love.  They don't make you give up someone who is kind to you.  That's what I had to learn and that's what I had to say to my ex.  

I would take this a step forward... .she doesn't even get to have the conversation about it... .for now.

Once she starts having emotionally healthy conversations with you... .then... .maybe...

[hurthusband]

Hang in there... .I'll make some comments on the interactions... .

The therapist she goes to is one I specifically sought out and is the only one I could find that was not just a therapist but an actual Psychologist with phd, used DBT, AND was within 2 hours of our home.  My wife has been going for 1.5 years to her.  I do not know what she is saying now, because she informed me not to contact her about her wife and update her on anything.

I think this is good... .sounds like this person has the skills.  Let her work her thing... that is only one piece of the puzzle.

Do you guys go to MC?  I think it may be a good thing to find a MC that is in the same practices as the psychologist.  That way they can communicate some on a professional level... .at least they can make sure they are not working against each other.

We did go to her therapist for a bit for joint counseling, but she got angry.  She says that marriage counseling makes her feel like the bad guy and everyone is ganging up on her.  That isnt good especially with a counselor she is supposed to trust, so she just does not want to do that.

Last night I got home and she was down, but things seemed okay.  her saying she was down but not mad at me and would not get mad at me.  She had a beer, and by the end of dinner was upset and did not want to talk to me at all.  Saying she had said all she wanted to say to me and I knew it.  I took kids to Boy Scouts, got home and she was upset with me saying I basically had a choice... my mother or her.

What did you say?  did you "react"...  My advice is to not participate in false choices.  No personal experience here... .so maybe the crowd can help.  "I don't participate in false choices... ." (said evenly and calmly)... .or perhaps a SET... .with the T being you don't participate... .and then walk away.  :)on't speak of it again

I said I am sorry she feels that way and it does put me in an awkward position.  I asked her for a plan on what to do.  Just silence before her saying she feels nothing for me and to "go move back to your moms"

I tell her, that the hard part is that I love her (my wife) and I care and want her to be happy, but she is the only person telling me how horrible I am and I am a monster.  

If this is really how you said this... .BAD BAD BAD... .it was accusatory... judgemental... even the "i love you part" was most likely invalidating... .

Try to think about the underlying emotions she had... focus on those... validate those...  What emotions do you think she had?

she feels alone, and that I am siding with everyone but her.  One problem I have is if I try and empathize with her it really ticks her off.  She says I have no clue what she is going through and never can.  That I have it waay too easy in life.  Basically invalidating everything I go through. If I try validating with her she sometimes says I am just restating what she says and that makes her feel stupid and stop it.  

It is very hard to talk to her.  It is basically me capitulate or nothing.  Sometimes its like a possession.  You can see it coming on and she will 5 minutes earlier be telling you she cant help herself and sometimes to go away so she doesnt hurt you before letting loose

Now obviously my wife knows me better than anyone... or at least should.  Certainly seen more aspects of me.  Also, at least my mother is being nice to me which is the only place I am getting any comfort currently (from real interaction).  I tell her that puts me in a bind, because its our livelihood and I do not feel it is fair to put all the financial situations on me AND at same time tell me how to address them all.  Basically, I sleep on the couch.

Skip explaining all this stuff... .

I took flier advice and not leave and slept on couch.

Why not sleep in bed... .I missed that part... .was there an issue?

She wanted me no where near her.  She told me actually to go away and stay someplace else.  She is literally demeaning me as a man and telling me how I ruined her life and she does not like me and move out.  If I leave its that i am running away.  

She woke me up about 4 times asking me to check on things, or get her something etc.

What kind of things? Please tell me that if they were not time sensitive... ."Honey I smell smoke from the basement... ."... .that you declined to interrupt your sleep and you would be happy to take care of them at a more appropriate hour

things like get her a drink of water, change the air temperature... there was a noise at somepoint and she wanted to know what it was

After 20 to 30 minutes of him getting yelled at and told he is a liar by my wife

Way too long to allow her to blather on at your kid... .even if she was right.

Has she apologized to kid for calling him a liar... .I would push this issue... but do it gently.

If refusal...

"Help me understand how we communicate to our son that your accusation was wrong and we believe him... "

she never apologized.  I went down and did.  After he left she was just silent.  She said we would all be better off without her and that she just abused her child.  I just listened.  I assured her that the children love her and need her and we all make mistakes.  Maybe that is invalidating, but that is just ridiculous.  She had a good reason to make the accusation though, he is constantly lying about doing homework.  This is a weekly excuse that he did the work and the teacher did not get it handled.  Unfortunately, about 30% of the time that is the case, but its constant.  Alot of boy cried wolf.

She then told me she finds no comfort in me and to get lost.  I did not and she continued that a few times.  I could tell she felt horrible and hated leaving her, but I needed to get to work, was late, and while I figured she would hold it against me, there was not much more I could do at that point.

 I just do not see anything I can do for her outside of destroying my own life which seems to be what she wants.  

OK... .here is a "funnyism" that I try to use... .it's been a while for this one... .

People with BPD traits are like bazookas... .they can kill you if you stand in their way... .and they can kill you if you are standing behind them.  The key is... .to get off to the side.  Us the tools to stay nimble... .and keep moving... .they want to aim their bazooka at you... .

Goal of the tools is not to take away their weapon... .but once they get frustrated trying to use it... .they may put it down and try something else.

Does the imagery work for you?

I see it, but I am worn out.  Going days without eating, sleeping, and the round about arguments while trying to support a family alone is just got me worn out.  At this point, I just want it to stop.  Efforts seem to make such little difference and nothing is changing.  I just do not have the strength to keep going on this dance.  I can weave through a 4 car collision with no adrenaline pumping through me and be calm, or spin out on ice and be calm, but this is more frustrating and stressful than anything else because it is completely irrational, out of my control, and targeted abuse.

I am terrified of being berated.  

But you control this... .right?  See above example... .step out of line of fire... .

my wife is more of a time bomb. She is a explodes in a circumference.  She is literally complaining about everyone.  She is smart and can see what she is doing wrong, but refusing to accept it.  AT same time, she sees when I am trying to use tools and it pisses her off because she feels she is being manipulated.  She gets mad when somebody just offers to pray for her.  She is convinced they are then have an agenda to convert her.  not that they are just trying to help in how they as individuals feel they can out of compassion.

She jsut texted me "when will you be home"  This is a signal of a fight.  She wants me home ASAP and she will be pissed until I am, but she will be pissed at me when I get home too.  She will want me to handle everything too when I get home.  It will be a nightmare...

She will pressure me to leave work early, she will yell at me... its coming.

I ask her how she is doing to be nice, I know she will respond with something like "ing horrible, how did you expect" or "what do you think?"  never mind me just trying to be kind.

Asked her to lunch today, she said "no, would have made a difference if you had when we were getting along"

basically the past is always present in her mind.  None of the good I do is remembered and all of the bad is.  None of the bad she does is ever remembered

[hurthusband]

Anniversary is the 26th this month and VDay the 14th.  She just asked me when I am taking off my next Saturday.  I said I was thinking the 21st since we can take the day for anniversary and the 14th I am 9 to 3 so its a shorter day anyways.  She was furious.  Said I should take off 2 Saturdays.  Should I?  I would be only person in management here who takes off 2 Saturdays in a month.  Actually, I would be only person to take a Saturday off this year so far... .

Is she being unreasonable or am I?

[formflier]

 

Hang in there... .

I'll respond in more detail later.

We need to get you stronger... .you need more energy... .so you need to stop putting energy into things that don't work.

If you are tired of the dance... .don't dance. 

I know it sounds simplistic... .but until you get it in your mind... .that it really is that simple... .you won't be able to deal with all the nuance that she sends your way.

Hang in there... .stay out of her frag pattern... .get yourself stronger... .

[formflier]

Anniversary is the 26th this month and VDay the 14th.  She just asked me when I am taking off my next Saturday.  I said I was thinking the 21st since we can take the day for anniversary and the 14th I am 9 to 3 so its a shorter day anyways.  She was furious.  Said I should take off 2 Saturdays.  Should I?  I would be only person in management here who takes off 2 Saturdays in a month.  Actually, I would be only person to take a Saturday off this year so far... .

Is she being unreasonable or am I?

Let her know what you can do... .and stop talking about it... .

Or... .if it is going to be a negotiation... you do this... and I will do that... .make sure you get your part first.  Note:  this is an option... .but can be complicated.

[momtara]

The minute I read the question to you, I knew it was dicey. What if you had said you'd take two days off. Then she could say, ":)on't you care about keeping your job?" ":)on't you want to make money?"

Valentine's is a Hallmark holiday. No need to do much for it.  But if you want to, you can take her out Friday night or Saturday night. Why do you need the whole day off?  No one takes the whole day off for those holidays.

Don't get sucked into a back and forth over things like this.  Just state what you can do, as Formflier suggested.  I have to get used to it too.  Don't give her an opening.  And don't engage in conversation over it.  Or you can start from a place of "No one has taken off a Saturday this year but I think I can get the 21st so that's what I am going to do." Make it sound like a sacrifice, which it is.

She is being unreasonable.  These are not the things that matter.  What matters is being a good person.  Not whether you take all day off for a holiday or anniversary.

There are people truly suffering in this world. Only getting half a day to celebrate a holiday is not a giant problem. If you were diagnosed with a fatal disease, that would be something to worry about. She's too used to making demands. 

[hurthusband]

she just called me and i mean yelled at me horrifically.  She said if I loved her i would take off more time.  I need to take off more time or get paid more she says.  Working here was decided by both of us cause we needed the money.  I am not rich, but I do 6 figures this year.  At same time, she is talking about how her sister gets benefits and I do not, etc.  That is one thing, but her doctor doesnt even take insurance and thats biggest expense, her doc and specialty meds... .

I stay calm and finally say "you keep saying what I need to do and what I need to change.  How I need to do such and such with my job, and we need more money and more time off"  I tell her if she gives me a plan I will work on it.  Real Estate will require me to work 6 days always and auto dealer will require me which is my two professions i work.  I do not know much else, and what to do to switch careers now.  She goes on to say she is the one that is going to bail us out with the money her parents left her.  Now that is not a long term solution.  Its like 200k.  That is not much of anything.  

So, I finally say "I have a job and a decent income that is better than most.  You keep telling me how I need to save us and what all I need to do, but you also have the power to control your life and get a job too".  I also inform her she can do whatever she wanted and the last job she had she did great at and lost to no fault of her own.  I did remind her that she used to stay at school 70+ hours all the time, and it is not really fair giving me a hard time now that I am down to 47 hours a week.

She lost it.  Said get my stuff and get out and never come back.  She said my family and me are all losers, and she was saying that to me about me even before we got to this point.  I have always danced around that.  That I am not responsible for everything in our life and that really the best way to help would be now that she is out of college and we have her student loans for her to actually start working.  I know she is scared of it, and maybe it was cruel, but at what point do I keep dancing and playing the game and being the absolute villian and nothing improves beecause its always my fault in her eyes...

and she just texted me the link to get a divorce started and told me to handle it.  She even wants me to handle the divorce i do not want

I told her i was not going to.  I am working

[hurthusband]

The minute I read the question to you, I knew it was dicey. What if you had said you'd take two days off. Then she could say, ":)on't you care about keeping your job?" ":)on't you want to make money?"

Valentine's is a Hallmark holiday. No need to do much for it.  But if you want to, you can take her out Friday night or Saturday night. Why do you need the whole day off?  No one takes the whole day off for those holidays.

Don't get sucked into a back and forth over things like this.  Just state what you can do, as Formflier suggested.  I have to get used to it too.  Don't give her an opening.  And don't engage in conversation over it.  Or you can start from a place of "No one has taken off a Saturday this year but I think I can get the 21st so that's what I am going to do." Make it sound like a sacrifice, which it is.

She is being unreasonable.  These are not the things that matter.  What matters is being a good person.  Not whether you take all day off for a holiday or anniversary.

There are people truly suffering in this world. Only getting half a day to celebrate a holiday is not a giant problem. If you were diagnosed with a fatal disease, that would be something to worry about. She's too used to making demands. 

i already had ordered her some shoes from Neiman's and had reservations for VDay set up.  I am taking it serious.  She thinks my work can just deal with it and I can do what I want.

The big thing is she is alone and hurting all day long with nobody.  Nobody cares about her or are scared to contact her because she will get mad as soon as they let her down.  So she is isolated and I am the only person who is still talking to her and so she is pissed I am not "protecting her and there for her" but i can only do so much

yea she talking about how half what we have in account is hers (most is going to mortgage and health insurance checks that are about to be cashed) and that she getting a lawyer.  Of course, its still what I have is half hers even though she already spends more on herself than kids and me combined and that all she has is hers.

I dont care.  I am ready for bankruptcy.  My integrity is shot.  Everything that made me me is gone now

[hurthusband]

she saying her therapist agrees that she is hurting and I am not taking the time for her. That all of this is because I did not take one of the past two saturdays off.

she asked only 40 hours ahead of time for me to take off.  I said I could use a sick day but it looks flakey to just take off after the previous week i tried to blow my chest open because she would not stop harrassing me.

Last week was the end of the month, start of new month, and 1099s and all teh tax crap that needed to go out.

I dont know.  She is making me feel evil.  She is saying her therapist feels that way too.  I just am sick.  If I am spinning this crap to all of you and you are siding with me to a degree or I am delusional and everyone around me is too.

She is obviously sick, but she has to be right about somethings.  I am just doing this and talking with her and talking with my sons teachers all day today because he is screwing up in class and not getting ANYTHING done at work... .

I am feeling lightheaded while my temples are putting in pressure.  I do not want this feeling.  I do not want the guilt and fear and i never wanted this for her.  Its like I have to sabotage my life like she sabotaged hers.  Its like that is what she wants...

[ForeverDad]

The therapist she goes to is one I specifically sought out and is the only one I could find that was not just a therapist but an actual Psychologist with phd, used DBT, AND was within 2 hours of our home.  My wife has been going for 1.5 years to her.  I do not know what she is saying now, because she informed me not to contact her about her wife and update her on anything.

Who said not to make contact, the therapist or your wife?  I don't see why in the world you (or your therapist) can't update her therapist.  Yes, her therapist may not be able to acknowledge or give feedback due to privacy laws such as HIPAA, but I think the only way you could be stopped legally from contacting her therapist to provide information (such as you seeing no progress on wife's part) would be if you were facing Harassment charges.  Frankly, it's very likely your wife is "going through the motions".  The problem is, you don't know since you don't see any improvement.

Let's be clear, (1) you know your spouse is unreasonable, (2) you can't trust anything she says when dysregulated, (3) she doesn't want you to ever talk to her therapist.  Conclusion:  You can't trust what her therapist is really saying. For that matter, you can't really know what her therapist is thinking.  My guess, if the therapist is good and not being conned and fooled, then her therapist is (1) continuing therapy figuring that some therapy is better than no therapy or (2) assumes all is going well since her therapist hasn't heard a peep from you or (3) a combination of both.

This is your spouse setting unreasonable demands and restrictions.

Last night I got home and ... .she was upset with me saying I basically had a choice... my mother or her.

Again, this is your spouse setting unreasonable demands and restrictions.

Perhaps too she is setting you up with two terrible choices... .":)amned if I do and damned if I don't."

In effect, she's telling you to either choose normal life or abnormal life.  There may also be some reverse psychology she's using on herself... .She won't leave you but she's forcing the issue where your only sensible option is to set firmer boundaries of behavior you will allow in your life or else be the one to 'leave'.  Remember, BPD is centered around abandonment issues and a typical behavior we see here is that they can, with their extreme demands, force the other to 'abandon' them.

I tell her, that the hard part is that I love her (my wife) and I care and want her to be happy, but she is the only person telling me how horrible I am and I am a monster.  Now obviously my wife knows me better than anyone... or at least should.  Certainly seen more aspects of me.

Sigh.  You can't trust her perceptions, they are going to be distorted especially when her moods and feelings are surging.  Again, you can't reason with someone who either isn't listening or isn't reasonable.  Knowing that, there are times your 'logic' will bounce right off your spouse - or trigger overreactions.

Then this morning at 6:30 am we get an email about our youngest who is in 7th grade, screwing around in class and not doing his work.  We go with him over what he has and does not have every night.  The previous night we went through all his teachers sites and everything to make sure everything was done and he assured us.  After 20 to 30 minutes of him getting yelled at and told he is a liar by my wife we get an email from teacher saying he apologizes but the homework was turned in and it was just the screwing around in class that is the problem.  Still a major problem... taking 100 photos with the school iPad and not working on the project.

My son is in 7th grade too and I too am struggling with him getting his classwork and homework done.  The teachers say it's common at that age.  So it's not all the family dynamic.

That said, the dysfunctional family dynamic is surely having a huge impact on him.  Where he should have stability and peace he instead experiences chaos and conflict.  As I recall, the children are stepchildren, and if so then unless you've adopted them you don't really have legal rights or responsibility for them.



No one, and I mean no one, can force either you or your spouse to work on yourselves.  If you stay married, the counselors can't force changes.  Alternatively, if you divorce, the court won't force changes either - beyond unwinding the legal aspects - because it deals with the spouses as they are.

Factoids:

-- She hasn't made significant improvements.

-- Her therapist has been of little or no benefit (as far as you can discern).

-- Court too would not try to change her, generally it only tries to manage the unwinding of the relationship.

That's why we say it's up to you to find what works for you, no one else will do it for you, not her, not her therapist, and not court except for specific scenarios.  You will have to be the one to find the least unfavorable solution.  You have already tried some strategies and they by and large failed, but that's not a reflection on you, you did have to try even if those attempts failed.

You also know that inaction, though a choice, isn't a solution either.

Would it help you to list out your options, reminders and future strategies?

[ForeverDad]

Anniversary is the 26th this month and VDay the 14th.  She just asked me when I am taking off my next Saturday.  I said I was thinking the 21st since we can take the day for anniversary and the 14th I am 9 to 3 so its a shorter day anyways.  She was furious.  Said I should take off 2 Saturdays.  Should I?  I would be only person in management here who takes off 2 Saturdays in a month.  Actually, I would be only person to take a Saturday off this year so far... .

Is she being unreasonable or am I?

What do YOU think?  Forget what she perceives, says, claims and demands.  What do YOU think?

(You already know what we think, to earn money you have to work.  I've heard in Europe some countries have 3 or 4 day work weeks and month-long vacations.  Sorry, but I'm not there and neither are you.)

Don't get sucked into a back and forth over things like this.  Just state what you can do, as Formflier suggested... .  Don't give her an opening.  And don't engage in conversation over it.  Or you can start from a place of "No one has taken off a Saturday this year but I think I can get the 21st so that's what I am going to do." Make it sound like a sacrifice, which it is.

She is being unreasonable.  These are not the things that matter.  What matters is being a good person.  Not whether you take all day off for a holiday or anniversary.

She is using emotional reasoning.  Accept that it is all about her personal perceptions and mindset.  No matter how compelling she makes it sound, it still won't be common sense or make sense when viewed objectively and not blown out of proportion.

The big thing is she is alone and hurting all day long with nobody.  Nobody cares about her or are scared to contact her because she will get mad as soon as they let her down.  So she is isolated and I am the only person who is still talking to her and so she is pissed I am not "protecting her and there for her" but i can only do so much... .

Can you accept that you can't live her life for her?

Can you accept that you can't 'save' her?  You've been trying and failing for years.  A saying mentioned here sometimes... ."A definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results."  Don't you think it's about time to step back and admit everything you've done thus far has been sabotaged?  Yes, you know a lot more now than before, you're starting to use skills you were clueless about before, all that is good, but despite all that improvement you're still being perplexed and sabotaged.  What distresses us is that you're still letting yourself be perplexed and sabotaged.

[formflier]

She's too used to making demands. 

And... .she has been trained to do this.  Because... .it sounds like most of the demands have been accommodated.

A big part of BPD family is to "stop the bleeding"... .stop making it worse... .then you can see if it can be made better.

Stop the bleeding!

HH... .what does stop the bleeding look like to you?