Called her bluff. But wish she actually sent the email.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm out of the state on a business trip. She knew about it but didn't like it at all. She was even really sweet over the weekend. So I get back to the room to Skype and she goes ballistic. I'll spare you the details but she wants me to come home and when I refused she said she would email my boss as me and say there is an emergency at home and I need to leave. She said she sent it but since she wouldn't show me I knew she didn't. If she had I still would have come home and it might have been for good this time.  Can anyone help with this? I am not looking to patch things up just how to deal with this. My instinct has always been to cave to her but I haven't so far. Well maybe a little saying I will find a different job. Although I would like to get paid more but that's a whole different topic.

I kind of wish she sent it. Then I would have what I need to cut the stings for my own mental well being. Should I already be looking at that based on the history and not just looking for the "last straw"?

[Cipher13]

I'm out of the state on a business trip. She knew about it but didn't like it at all. She was even really sweet over the weekend. So I get back to the room to Skype and she goes ballistic. I'll spare you the details but she wants me to come home and when I refused she said she would email my boss as me and say there is an emergency at home and I need to leave. She said she sent it but since she wouldn't show me I knew she didn't. If she had I still would have come home and it might have been for good this time.  Can anyone help with this? I am not looking to patch things up just how to deal with this. My instinct has always been to cave to her but I haven't so far. Well maybe a little saying I will find a different job. Although I would like to get paid more but that's a whole different topic.

I kind of wish she sent it. Then I would have what I need to cut the stings for my own mental well being. Should I already be looking at that based on the history and not just looking for the "last straw"?

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher:  Good for you, refusing to cave to her completely unreasonable demand! 

Keep the momentum going, and continue to stand up for your rights to live a reasonable and normal life that includes traveling for business when needed.  Your wife won't like the change, and you can expect her to ramp up her antics to try to make you fall back in line.  But don't fall for it - now is the time to stay strong and power through whatever extinction burst comes your way.  Things will improve for you if you keep to this strategy. 

As for what's the last straw, that is something only you can decide.

But it sounds like you are making progress, so kudos to you! 

[Waddams]

Echoing WT1 - Good Job! 

Anticipate her to get worse.  Think about what you might be able to do to set some boundaries.  If she's threatening to impersonate you to your employer, then maybe change passwords on every email account you have so she can't get into them.  Beyond that, you are kind of stuck waiting to see what tantrum she throws next.

Whatever you do, now that you've started, you have to remain committed to not caving, no matter what.  If you do, all it teaches her is that she's got to throw an even bigger tantrum to get her way now, and she'll just go straight to that level of crazy each and every time moving forward.  Maybe even go low contact with her.  No nightly skype, phone calls, etc.  If she's going to use such communication to abuse you, then don't engage and give her the chance.

I kind of wish she sent it. Then I would have what I need to cut the stings for my own mental well being. Should I already be looking at that based on the history and not just looking for the "last straw"?

She's already threatening you with trying to cause employment problems for you.  How is this not enough?  I'll simplify it for you by re-quoting what I just wrote "She's... .threatening you... ." that she will try to hurt you if you don't cave in to her control.  How is that a healthy relationship?

[BestVersionOfMe]

Echoing WT1 - Good Job! 

Anticipate her to get worse.  Think about what you might be able to do to set some boundaries.  If she's threatening to impersonate you to your employer, then maybe change passwords on every email account you have so she can't get into them.  Beyond that, you are kind of stuck waiting to see what tantrum she throws next.

Whatever you do, now that you've started, you have to remain committed to not caving, no matter what.  If you do, all it teaches her is that she's got to throw an even bigger tantrum to get her way now, and she'll just go straight to that level of crazy each and every time moving forward.  Maybe even go low contact with her.  No nightly skype, phone calls, etc.  If she's going to use such communication to abuse you, then don't engage and give her the chance.

I kind of wish she sent it. Then I would have what I need to cut the stings for my own mental well being. Should I already be looking at that based on the history and not just looking for the "last straw"?

She's already threatening you with trying to cause employment problems for you.  How is this not enough?  I'll simplify it for you by re-quoting what I just wrote "She's... .threatening you... ." that she will try to hurt you if you don't cave in to her control.  How is that a healthy relationship?

I'd say you are at this point, https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0.  Can't cave now, just see it through.  You CAN do it!  We all believe in you.

BVOM

[Cipher13]

Thank you all. So to touch on the topic of the threat and the last straw... .I know she uses guilt and fear to keep me from leaving. However I know that would be the best thing for myself. She can't support herself financially without me though.

[BestVersionOfMe]

Thank you all. So to touch on the topic of the threat and the last straw... .I know she uses guilt and fear to keep me from leaving. However I know that would be the best thing for myself. She can't support herself financially without me though.

There is a lot of people that can't support themselves financially without you, but this one treats you like garbage.  Do you want to be with her?  For a moment completely remove her well being from the equation.  WHAT DO YOU WANT?

[Waddams]

She can't support herself financially without me though.

She won't support herself independently right now.  But she's perfectly capable of choosing to do it.  She might fight it tooth and nail at first, but at some point she'll either have to, find someone else to take care of her, or learn primitive survival skills. 

Regardless, what does it tell you about how she values you that she would treat you like this?  You're the person that ensures her well being.  How disrespectful is it for her to treat you like this and disregard your value to her under that circumstance.  And this isn't a one off moment of conflict and arguing where things get said that aren't meant and cooler heads prevail later.  This is an on-going pattern of behavior. 

She's telling you what she thinks of you, how she feels about you, and who she really is via her actions.  Listen to the message, it's authentic.  You don't have to live with being treated like this.

[Cipher13]

Last night while heading back to the room I told her I was going to go out to eat some place. I said I was not going to be dictated to and be made a prisinor in the room all night. I was really firm and really confident in myslef for the first time in a long time. I explained to her how I was feeling and what her words did to me and made me feel.  Yes! I felt powerful and in control and for the first time in a long time felt I was in charge of my own self and well being. That I was really me... .Alright time to celebrate... .

I never left the room and I was on skype with her until 11pm  and I did everythign she asked.  :'(

I totally caved. I threw in the towel. I can not understand myself. In fact I didn't sleep because of it. I running on very little sleep. I am being pulled aaway from a job I enjoy.  Why am I letting this happen? 

[Waddams]

I totally caved. I threw in the towel. I can not understand myself. In fact I didn't sleep because of it. I running on very little sleep. I am being pulled aaway from a job I enjoy.  Why am I letting this happen?

Because breaking old habits is very hard and done in small steps.  You can just stop a habit easily.  It really has to be replaced with a new habit.  You have to be aware constantly and make sure you consciously think "do the new habit, not the old one". 

Also, it takes time build strength.  Just like in a gym, you don't go from scrawny to benching 300 lbs.  It's incremental gain after lots of work.  Maybe it's better to not call her at first.  Just text her.  And ignore the calls.  That way there isn't live action to suck you in.  There are probably other ways as well, but start with small increments, and get comfortable doing them first.  Then progress.  Eventually you get comfortably saying you're going and hanging up even when the person on the other end of the line is going berserk and trying to reel you back in.

[Wrongturn1]

I was really firm and really confident in myslef for the first time in a long time. I explained to her how I was feeling and what her words did to me and made me feel.  Yes! I felt powerful and in control and for the first time in a long time felt I was in charge of my own self and well being. That I was really me... .Alright time to celebrate... .

Sounds like you had a brief taste of what your life could be if you started respecting yourself and implementing boundaries - that part must have been nice! 

No need to beat yourself up about caving... .we all make mistakes, and it's in the past now.  I like what Waddams said about baby steps.  Maybe next time, the baby step could be making sure that you go out to dinner while on the road.  Before heading out, you could send her a text that says "I'm off to have dinner now and am putting my phone on silent - will give you a call to say hello when I get back."  Then either turn your phone off or leave it in the hotel room and let her go berzerko as much as she wants while you enjoy a nice dinner.  Eventually, she'll stop freaking out, and you'll have a small part of your life back.

You might also want to think about putting some boundaries around the Skype babysitting.  Sounds a bit over the top.

[BestVersionOfMe]

I was really firm and really confident in myslef for the first time in a long time. I explained to her how I was feeling and what her words did to me and made me feel.  Yes! I felt powerful and in control and for the first time in a long time felt I was in charge of my own self and well being. That I was really me... .Alright time to celebrate... .

Sounds like you had a brief taste of what your life could be if you started respecting yourself and implementing boundaries - that part must have been nice! 

No need to beat yourself up about caving... .we all make mistakes, and it's in the past now.  I like what Waddams said about baby steps.  Maybe next time, the baby step could be making sure that you go out to dinner while on the road.  Before heading out, you could send her a text that says "I'm off to have dinner now and am putting my phone on silent - will give you a call to say hello when I get back."  Then either turn your phone off or leave it in the hotel room and let her go berzerko as much as she wants while you enjoy a nice dinner.  Eventually, she'll stop freaking out, and you'll have a small part of your life back.

You might also want to think about putting some boundaries around the Skype babysitting.  Sounds a bit over the top.

I like this plan.  Texting or skype chat is a good way to be able to measure your responses and remove the panicked feelings of being controlled.  What my current plan is for me is that I set a timer and I don't respond to any text from my wife for 15 mins.  That gives me time to calm down, if it was a demand or something ridiculous, and it teaches her that she can't just text me any time she wants and get an immediate response from me.  It changes the dynamic a lot in terms of the power struggle.  I think a big part of this is the fear of abandonment, but also in part because they want to make sure they are in control by getting you to respond immediately.

[Ripped Heart]

Cipher,

My exN/BPDw and I were from 2 different countries, I moved to her country just before we got married but was fortunate enough to keep my job as it's for a global company and I can work anywhere in the world as long as I have a laptop and internet connection. Still, every so often I would have to come back to my own country for business, usually for a few days or a week. The r/s was toxic and abusive to begin with anyway and what could/should have been a welcome break away from it was equally as stressful because it became more demanding and more extreme.

Like you, from the second I walked in through the door after a full day at work she was on skype. She would actually time how long it took me to get from the office to the house and start ringing within that time frame. If I didn't answer or was late, I got a full rage. The reason for the skype was so she could see me, know exactly where I was and ensure that any free time I had was given to her. It was all about control and like you, I caved every single time. Friends would invite me out or come round to see me and I took the full wrath of her anger for hours afterwards, it was easier just to not do anything.

Also, given that the time difference was 6 hours ahead where I was, I also had to be on skype when she went to bed so she could see that I was there and also leave it on, in case she woke up. It meant that I got 30 mins to 1 hour sleep a night because my working day was going on whilst she was getting her sleep.

Here's the thing, I can look back on that now at just how ridiculous and extreme that all was and how controlled I felt. I had options, could easily have hung up, could easily have said I have other plans, could very easily have lied and said the internet connection was down but I did none of those things. Instead, I acted out of fear, I acted out of obligation and I acted out of guilt. Fear because I feared her rage (despite it just being a little angry face on a screen that I could choose to switch off) Obligation, because she was my wife and I felt obligated to be there for her when she needed me, and finally guilt, because I knew she had major abandonment issues and if I was to switch everything off, I felt like I was the bad person who was causing her pain and upset.

I did all of those things and it didn't change a thing. She always found something to argue about no matter how perfectly I tried to behave. Like in your case, it started with her pleading with me to tell work there was a family emergency so I could return home. Then it moved on to her acting out and creating family emergencies, these became more frequent after the first one because I did drop everything and flew back thus proving to her it could be done. It even went to the stage of her telling me step-daughter was in hospital dying and needed me back. I got back to a little girl who had a runny nose and chest infection in bed at home.

To finally her trying to make me choose between my job or my family. That started with telling me I was too good for my job and that I could earn 3 times as much if I stayed closer to her. Truth is, I work because I enjoy what I do. It's never been about the money because I'm not greedy. I have enough to pay my bills each month, treat my children and have a comfortable life. I don't need any more than that. When that failed, she tried getting into my head that my job wasn't secure, that people were trying to push me out etc... Everything was just a game.

The moral of the story is that it's ok to cave because that's who you are and that's the buttons that are being pressed. There is always going to be that one button right now that will work. As someone who has followed that same path to it's conclusion, it doesn't matter how perfect you try to be, as long as it's seen you are giving in to her demands, they will keep coming and getting more extreme as time passes.

She is long gone now and I still work for the same company. I've had 2 promotions and several pay-rises along the way for my hard work and dedication to the company. When it came to making a decision around the ultimatum I was given, it seems I made the right choice. I went with the people who valued me as a person and recognised the effort I was making over the person who just refused to see any of that.

[Cipher13]

I agree that i would liek boundries. I have never been able to get them to hold. I cave. I am not asertive person. When I am with her I feel liberated then she tears it down and i go back to the way it was to calm her down and keep the peace. Last night she wanted me to make sure today was the last day here and come home. I am supposed to actually go out after work for drinks with the owners of the company since it is the last night we are here. I would like to just to have 1 evening that was fun.


So how would you go about suggesting how I handle the skyping and bringin that up to her? Because last noght again I had it on from time I walked iint he room to time I fell asleap and that included her watchin gme eat the nasty food at this hotels room service.

[Cipher13]

Ripped Heart,

Did I dictate to you what to write? Other than kids which i don't have its identical. Thanks for the insight into my life through your own. 

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher:  First, I strongly suggest that you go out for drinks with the owners of the company tonight.  You don't need your wife's permission to do this.  If you feel like telling her about it in advance, I suggest a text or email along these lines:

"Good news - the owners of the company invited me out for drinks tonight  at XYZ, a really nice [pub/restaurant/whatever].  This is a great opportunity to spend time with these people, and it could be a big help for my career!  Will give you a call to let you know how things go as soon as I get back."

On the Skype thing, there are multiple ways you could do it.  Remember, you don't need her permission for any of this.  One option would be to say something like, "having Skype on for hours at a time while I am traveling makes it hard to function normally, so I've decided to limit my Skype sessions to 15 minutes per evening."  Then stick to that boundary, regardless of what she does (turn off the phone/Skype when she goes bonkers about it).  Other options might be to somehow have her raise this with her therapist and get some input as to whether this is the type of thing that goes on in a healthy relationship.

[Waddams]

Cipher:  First, I strongly suggest that you go out for drinks with the owners of the company tonight.  You don't need your wife's permission to do this.  If you feel like telling her about it in advance, I suggest a text or email along these lines:

"Good news - the owners of the company invited me out for drinks tonight  at XYZ, a really nice [pub/restaurant/whatever].  This is a great opportunity to spend time with these people, and it could be a big help for my career!  Will give you a call to let you know how things go as soon as I get back."

Totally agree.  I'd even say you don't need to explain why you're having drinks with the company owners.  Sometimes less is more.  The more info. you give her, the more pieces she has to argue about.  Perhaps "Going to dinner with company owners tonight. Will call you after." texted to her, and then the phone set to silent. 

On the Skype thing, there are multiple ways you could do it.  Remember, you don't need her permission for any of this.  One option would be to say something like, "having Skype on for hours at a time while I am traveling makes it hard to function normally, so I've decided to limit my Skype sessions to 15 minutes per evening."  Then stick to that boundary, regardless of what she does (turn off the phone/Skype when she goes bonkers about it).  Other options might be to somehow have her raise this with her therapist and get some input as to whether this is the type of thing that goes on in a healthy relationship.

I think we've all dealt with some level of a partner wanting to keep tabs on us continuously.  It's very invasive.  I eventually just stopped complying.  It's just impossible to satisfy them, so I gave up trying and simply let her meltdown.  Once the phone bombing starts in earnest, just leave the phone on silent.  It gets comical after a while.  I made it a point to not respond until the meltdown had stopped and it was the next day.  It really comes down to a decision to not engage in that kind of interaction with them, no matter what.  And if you call, and she tries to start her meltdown again, then hangup.  Eventually they get the message.  They complain about it endlessly and act like they are the injured party, but in the world of perpetual victimhood, it's the best you'll get.

But think of it this way:  If you don't make a change in how you are dealing with these issues, then nothing is going to change.  She has no motivation to change.  She's getting what she wants.  So you have to make the change.  She's going to respond bad, but you have to decide you'd rather deal with her response than deal with being controlled.  At this point, it's a pick your poison decision, but nothing will change or improve until you pick a different poison.

[Cipher13]

Awesome advice. So I sent an email stating I'm goint to dinner with the owners of the company.

I have a question for everone though. When I put my assertive foot forward after 14 years of not using it, not only will the assertiveness send er up the wall she will grill me for where and why I am all of a sudden doing this. How have the rest of you handled this? I have seen many say baby steps. But I'm and even referingto dealing with baby steps. Might seem small to me but I know to her its huge.

[BestVersionOfMe]

Awesome advice. So I sent an email stating I'm goint to dinner with the owners of the company.

I have a question for everone though. When I put my assertive foot forward after 14 years of not using it, not only will the assertiveness send er up the wall she will grill me for where and why I am all of a sudden doing this. How have the rest of you handled this? I have seen many say baby steps. But I'm and even referingto dealing with baby steps. Might seem small to me but I know to her its huge.

Two words, "Company function." 

[Waddams]

I have a question for everone though. When I put my assertive foot forward after 14 years of not using it, not only will the assertiveness send er up the wall she will grill me for where and why I am all of a sudden doing this. How have the rest of you handled this?

In terms of how to handle being grilled, be careful not to use company functions or other events as excuses.  "I had to, I had no choice... .".  It's not assertive.  It makes you sound weak.  Assertive is "I went because I decided to go" or "because I wanted to".  You can have a bunch of specific reasons why you want to do something, but in the end you aren't accountable to her to explain every single one of them.  All she'll do is argue about each point and try to tell you how you are wrong on each one.  Been there, done that.  

I think the biggest change for me was wrapping my mind around the fact that I really wasn't supposed to be accountable to a partner for every moment of my life.  They don't get to have that much intrusion.  

It has helped me to separate my thinking out into values vs. boundaries.  I had a good think about my values and made a decision to live them.  It does result in a change in your behavior, and there will be some that don't like it.  The boundaries part comes in by deciding what you need to do in order to prevent people from trying to make you not live your values.  They'll try to make you live their values because they are used to you doing it already.  The trick is to let go of whether they accept you or like you, etc.  The "authentic" you won't be accepted by everyone.  There will be some people that disappear from your life.  And that's fine.  It makes room for people that do accept you, who are usually people that are similar to you anyway.  You'll eventually find yourself in more like minded company, and free from the drama others used to try to start.

I'm still in the process of going through whether other's accept me being me.  I don't back off of things in my values like I used to in order to keep others happy.  SO in particular doesn't like some things now.  Not sure how that is going to turn out.  She might eventually come 'round and be okay, or she might not.  I've let go of the outcome.  In the end, her and I will both be happier going separate ways if she can't accept me anyway. And I'm responsible for not living my own values and not always being my "authentic" self and letting things get this far in a relationship with her.  It gave her the impression I was someone that I was not.  I love her and her kids, but if she chooses to leave, then so be it.  I'll be as kind and flexible as I can in making the transition as painless as possible if it happens, and I won't be vindictive or hateful because I bear my share of responsibility for how the situation developed.

I have to admit, this is the first time in my almost 40 years that I've felt totally comfortable in my own skin.  I thought I did before, but it's much stronger now.  It's very peaceful in my mind now.  But it's also a struggle because I've dug some holes for myself that I've got to climb out of now.  I suspect alot of us on bpdfamily could say similar.  It's hard work, but it's worth it.

[Wrongturn1]

I have a question for everone though. When I put my assertive foot forward after 14 years of not using it, not only will the assertiveness send er up the wall she will grill me for where and why I am all of a sudden doing this. How have the rest of you handled this? I have seen many say baby steps. But I'm and even referingto dealing with baby steps. Might seem small to me but I know to her its huge.

Timely question, Cipher.  Just last night, while in a dysregulated state, my uBPDw was ranting about how she doesn't like the change in my attitude and behavior and she has no idea why I have changed, and that I have been behaving lately the way I used to behave when the two of us first started dating.  When she said that last part, it was all I could do to restrain myself from jumping up and down and cheering for myself because it's confirmation of how far I have progressed in firming up my boundaries!

Instead of JADEing at that point, I told her that I heard her a few minutes before say that she needed some space, so I would give her the space she needed, and I went upstairs to read.  

I was thinking about it this morning and decided that if she raises the question again in a calm state, I will explain that because I care about her and our relationship so very much, I have been taking a close look at my behaviors and our interactions lately, and I am intentionally stopping my actions that are a long-term detriment to her and our relationship.  In the past, I would constantly do things for her that she is capable of doing for herself (reassuring herself, calming herself down, soothing herself, buying herself ice cream or wine, etc.), which provided short-term soothing and comfort for her, at the expense of giving her an opportunity long-term to learn the soothing and coping skills that she needs to succeed in life as a healthy adult.  

[Waddams]

Timely question, Cipher.  Just last night, while in a dysregulated state, my uBPDw was ranting about how she doesn't like the change in my attitude and behavior and she has no idea why I have changed, and that I have been behaving lately the way I used to behave when the two of us first started dating.  When she said that last part, it was all I could do to restrain myself from jumping up and down and cheering for myself because it's confirmation of how far I have progressed in firming up my boundaries!

I had a similar experience recently. I simply responded with "I actually take that as a compliment.  Thank you!"  Her eyeballs about bugged out of her head, but I just kissed her on the forehead and went about my business.