back to undecided- omg- why can't i figure this out?

[cloudten]

This is just unreal. Here is the series of texts i just got from him (uBPD(x)bf- i say (x) because I don't really know- i tried to dump him a bunch of times in the last week). He doesn't think we broke up. Apparently I am still playing into it so I guess we didn't.

"I love you more than myself. I think there is a lot left unsaid by you. I've clearly hurt you in ways I can't understand. I am doing exactly what I say I am. I'm doing everything to gain any inch of trust. At this point I need a [new] phone ASAP. Last night is not acceptable. You shouldn't be feeling ignored or unloved. I want you to know I'm proud of you. I'm proud of every inch of you. I'm in love with you and your personality, looks, mind, even your anger. Even when you hate me or get upset it makes me want to do better. I can be better. I want to continue what we have and I think we can get past it all. You trusting me is based on me, not you. Your happiness grows with mine and mine with yours. Your body occupies my sexual thoughts. Every thought I have is based on you. I've become addicted to you sexually. I've associated sex to you. I've associated safety with you. My sanity my sexuality my sobriety are all driven by you. Regardless of you being in my life, those things will never change. I want you proud of me. I see the importance of compliments everyday. For both of us, we left our comfort zones two years ago when we decided to go on a date. She's too old they said, he's too young they said, but it sparked and that spark isn't gone. The fire burns and we continue to keep it lit. At times it's a faint glow but for some reason it always continues to burn."

I know it's personal- sorry for that i just didn't want to leave anything out. but i'm crying now- and i don't know what to say. I know this is coming from a deeply mentally ill person... .but can't there be a glimmer of truth in any of it? is it all a game? is it all one big lie? i love him... .i love everything about him. he's my best friend. I want this all so badly to be true.

[Tim300]

Perhaps nobody can answer your question definitively. 

My guess is that he means what he says at this moment.  The problem is that 5 weeks from now he'll have a different view -- he'll either get scared and distance himself, get bored and distance himself, or find another person to latch on to and distance himself.  Meanwhile, as part of this distancing he'll likely be mean to you, perhaps very mean to you, because this somehow helps him cope with the distancing.  And I do think it operates like a pendulum -- so if he's swung this far in such a good direction, watch out because he's likely to swing with equal intensity the opposite way.  Plus, when he turns on you, he might want to punish you for whatever part you've played in the current breakup. 

All of this makes me almost sound like someone with Paranoid Personality Disorder.  I don't mean to be pathologically skeptical, but for your sake I would try to see if he can feel this way with some normal consistency. 

[Heldfast]

Will he get help? My conditions, now 7 weeks out, 3 weeks NC, is that I would never do it if she said she wanted a friend, never do it if she said she wanted me back, but would do it if she said she wanted help, professional help, recognizing that she has an issue (it's not going to happen, I'm not kidding myself), but those are the boundaries I would accept for myself.

[cloudten]

Will he get help? My conditions, now 7 weeks out, 3 weeks NC, is that I would never do it if she said she wanted a friend, never do it if she said she wanted me back, but would do it if she said she wanted help, professional help, recognizing that she has an issue (it's not going to happen, I'm not kidding myself), but those are the boundaries I would accept for myself.

I like those boundaries. I would like for him to help himself. We are supposed to go to our first counseling tomorrow. But he needs to be going on his own as well. But if I can get him to one, that's still a step in the right direction.

I will have to investigate Paranoid Personailty Disorder. I do not think BPD is his only issue. I think there could also be NPD and Schizophrenia. But I don't know anything about PPD. I will definitely look into it! Thanks!

[Heldfast]

It comes with fellow travelers, so look across the spectrum. OCD, Narcissism, Depression, etc. Therapist will help nail those down.

[EaglesJuju]

"I love you more than myself. I think there is a lot left unsaid by you. I've clearly hurt you in ways I can't understand. I am doing exactly what I say I am. I'm doing everything to gain any inch of trust. At this point I need a [new] phone ASAP. Last night is not acceptable. You shouldn't be feeling ignored or unloved. I want you to know I'm proud of you. I'm proud of every inch of you. I'm in love with you and your personality, looks, mind, even your anger. Even when you hate me or get upset it makes me want to do better. I can be better. I want to continue what we have and I think we can get past it all. You trusting me is based on me, not you. Your happiness grows with mine and mine with yours. Your body occupies my sexual thoughts. Every thought I have is based on you. I've become addicted to you sexually. I've associated sex to you. I've associated safety with you. My sanity my sexuality my sobriety are all driven by you. Regardless of you being in my life, those things will never change. I want you proud of me. I see the importance of compliments everyday. For both of us, we left our comfort zones two years ago when we decided to go on a date. She's too old they said, he's too young they said, but it sparked and that spark isn't gone. The fire burns and we continue to keep it lit. At times it's a faint glow but for some reason it always continues to burn."

I know this is coming from a deeply mentally ill person... .but can't there be a glimmer of truth in any of it? is it all a game? is it all one big lie? i love him... .i love everything about him. he's my best friend. I want this all so badly to be true.

I understand how confusing this may be for you.   

I think there is some sincerity and truth to what was texted. I can understand how you could feel it was a lie, especially with the contradictory behavior of pwBPD.

Take some time to think about the words and try to balance your rational thoughts and emotions, then ask yourself, do you feel that what was texted was truthful?   

I am not entirely familiar with your backstory, why did you want to break up with him?

[cloudten]

Paranoid Personality Disorder- YES that could totally be him as well. *sigh*

I am not sure I have told my entire backstory on here. Bits and pieces here and there. I wanted this to be short but it won't be. But I am going to do it anyway because I think at the moment, it might be therapeutic for me. Idc if anyone else reads it or not.

My personal background. I am 33, swf, mother to a darling 5yo girl.  I have been divorced 3 years from an old high school friend of mine. We were married 8 years, together 13. The marriage didn't work on the grounds of several affairs on his part, and in general we were just too young to get married. He was not abusive, but he had ADHD which at the time made me feel like I was in a looney bin. Boy did the universe have other plans for me! My exhus and I get along wonderfully, and we do the best we can to raise our daughter in happy homes. I would never return to him, but looking back on it, it wasn't as bad of a marriage as it could have been. It certainly wasn't so outwardly psychologically, emotionally, verbally, or mentally abusive.

I met uBPDbf 2.5 years ago. We met in real life. He comes from a well known family in my city in Pennsylvania. His father runs a farm in addition to many other business ventures. All successful. In the fall, the father runs a hayride on his farm. I was roped into working for the hayride by a friend of mine. This is where I met my BPD.  The first time I saw him,    he was raging at his father. I am not sure he knew I was there. But I instantly felt my whole universe shift. I knew this person was going to impact my life and become important. He is attractive- but I can't say I was attracted to him. I am a peaceful person, very chill demeanor. I DO NOT like fighting and conflict. So, I was not attracted to him - it was not love at first sight. I was actually sort of repulsed. But in that instant, my head swirled and I instantly knew that this person was going to change my life.

So we worked his father's hayride together. He is 5 years younger than me... which I have never done before. I have always been with men my own age or older. We started dating a few weeks after knowing each other. He was charming and odd at the same time. I knew something was just sort of off. But I knew I loved him within 6 weeks. We started to become inseparable. At the time, I was living with my parents... .and simultaneously that relationship got very rocky. about 2 months into my relationship, my parents asked me to leave. I had no where to go.  I hate using this phrase because it is so black and white---- but i am a good person! I have never done drugs. I have never disobeyed my parents. I was always top of my class and a diligent student. I have empathy and I was thankful for everything that my parents were doing for my daughter and myself after my divorce so I could get on my feet. They are extremely conservative christians... .and they were not happy about me seeing someone new... .THAT IS IT. That is why they kicked me out essentially. I had no where to go.  Guess who took me in. Yup. uBPDbf. So at 30 years old I was living with uBPDbf 5 years younger than me. I was actually sort of happy. He made me feel a little younger again. We went out, he introduced me to all of his friends. He still didn't want to be friends on facebook or admit that we were "together"... .and there were a lot of "jokes" made about him taking in a homeless girl... .like I was some sort of charity case and HE was the hero. But I loved him. To this day, I appreciate everything he did for me. He was my family when my own family wasn't available. I would not be where I am at today- in a good way and a bad way- if it wasn't for him.

Anyway- I never had a sense  of emotional security with him. I had one of his friend's say "if he ever wanted to break up with you, he'd just arrange it so you would walk in on him ___ing someone else"... .wow. How is that for feeling secure? Most of his other friends didn't go so far but would say things like "he'll just go be with whoever he wants". But his behavior didn't really correspond to the things they said. I thought he really liked me and wanted to be with me. I still feel that his texts to me this morning were honest and truthful. But sometimes he would say things like "that girl would be so easy to cheat on"... .just little stuff like that that made me want to run. But I decided I wasn't going to run. I am very very perceptive, and I had no reason to believe he was cheating. I did catch him doing stupid stuff like searching craigslist for sex or toward one breakup, I found that he was web-camming with fling.com girls. So that didn't help things. He lied about how many girls he had slept with... He lied about who he would see or talk to. But nothing that gave me the impression that he physically cheated... .emotionally though, definitely.

to be cont'd... .i exceeded the limit.

[cloudten]

Part II... .

Eventually, he was going thru some rough stuff at work, and between that and the webcam stuff, I needed space. I broke up with him about a year into the relationship. I was still living with him at the time. I wanted out SO BADLY that I left him knowing I had no where to go. I literally couch hopped with the few friends I had, even my exhus let me stay for a bit... .but for the most part I lived in my car.  Unfortunately where I live and work is very expensive. I couldn't afford to rent even the cheapest of apartments on my salary. It's not that I didn't have money. I managed to bank over $25,000 in the year I spent living with my BPD. So, I bought a condo. But that still took me time to close and move in. In the mean time I lived in the car and continued to couch surf. In the final weeks before I closed, I sort of made up with my parents. They let me stay on their couch until I could move in. It was a start at being able to communicate with them.  :)uring my time away from BPD, we remained in almost complete contact. I missed him. He would let me stay on occasion as well.

Then New Years Eve, he invited me over for dinner. He made me dinner then said "hey- i'm going to this party- i'll be back after midnight"... .and he LEFT. Before he left, i asked if I could go. I knew the people involved. he said No... .and that was that. I spent the most miserable new years alone at his house. He came home stinking drunk about 2am with a buddy. The next night was a giant snow storm, he let me stay at his house but he wasn't there. He told me he got caught in the snow at a buddy's house. Plausible. But something didn't sit right with me. The next day I asked one of those guys that lived in that house if BPDbf had been there that night. He said no. I played a game with BPD to see if he would lie. He did. I asked questions like "what beer did you drink?" etc. Very specific ones. He answered them all without knowing I knew he hadn't been there. I immediately went NC by instinct. About 4 days later I texted him and asked if I could come get my stuff. We arranged a time and I did. When I got there he was crying more than I had ever seen him cry. I asked him where he was that night. He said he was at the hospital with a friend of his who was getting a cancer treatment. Also plausible. but something still didn't seem right about THAT! Why would someone lie about that! I am not stupid.

So, I got my stuff and left. I was broken hearted. Even though I knew that we had broken up 2 months before... .he swore to me that he didn't have a replacement. I figured he did. So began my year of horror. 2014 was not good to me.

We went NC. He goes in 3 week cycles for all things. 3 weeks into NC, he contacts me and accuses me of stealing a deck of cards from his house. Also accuses me of sleeping with one of his friends. None of which was true. I knew what he was doing though- he was projecting so that he could feel better about what he was doing- stiffing another girl. I accused him of this at the time, and he said "there is no one"... .all lies. This went on for 5 months! He would contact me... .he missed me, I missed him, we'd have dinner, he'd tell me he wasn't doing well and sometimes that he was suicidal. Finally I got tired of hearing it and told his friend that is a cop. His friend thought I was nuts and didn't do anything. But then we'd argue, 3 weeks NC, then contact. Cycle on and off and on and off. All the while, we would be physical at the good points. He still said there was no one. Then one day in May, we met at a park and he proceeded to cry and said he slept with someone else. ok. it happens. I was definitely playing the field myself- and hadn't been mother theresa. he said she meant nothing to him and he felt like he cheated on me. He said he had ended it. We started talking more and more... .and it culminated into a trip to Wisconsin for a dirt bike race - a passion of his- which I also fell in love with. The more time I spent with him, the more I felt like something wasn't right. On the way home from Wisconsin, I discovered on facebook that he had a very serious girlfriend! Despite me asking him hundreds of times if they were done, if they had broken up! He was still WITH HER. This is when my PTSD really kicked in. I immediately went NC with him. I contacted her and told her. she was in lala land and didn't care... .she's young and dumb. I think the younger generation now thinks its okay to cheat. But ultimately he made me the epitome of everything i hate... .THE OTHER WOMAN. It's why i am divorced! I was SO ANGRY. I still am.

Did the cycle end? You would think so. OH NO! it didn't end... .it went on and on and on. He would say they broke up. We would start hanging out... .only to find out they didn't break up! The kicker was, I finally checked his phone in October, and he had been texting her that she was special to him, but he needed time to figure out his life and that he upped his therapy to 3x a week. He wanted to be a better person so he could be perfect for her! Again he said he broke up with her. THEN- I walk into a restaurant with my daughter one night- and guess who he is with- HER! They NEVER freaking broke up. He didn't see me. I turned right back around with my daughter and left. I will admit I played games. I texted him all evening... .finally he said he was going to bed at 10 o'clock. (lies he never goes to bed at 10). Then he was texting me in the morning with a song (our *thing*)... .before 8am. He is never up by 8am. But by that time, I had already driven past his house on the way to taking my daughter to school. I knew he hadn't slept at home... .but I knew where he slept.

After he texted me the song I immediately texted back- "hey- where'd you sleep last night?"

"home"

"really- because I know you didn't sleep at home"

"I slept at home"

"no you didn't. i saw you at the restaurant with HER. Do not ever contact me again unless you are going to tell me the truth about where you stayed that night"

"OK"

NC again.

All the while, my PTSD in high gear. Shaking, panic attacks, anxiety, hair falling out, thyroid problems, feel curling up and cramping, digestion issues, my eye bulging... .can't eat, can't sleep, and function. How could he do this all to me? How could I be so stupid over and over and over again?  Why couldn't he give her up if I was 'forever'?

Well, after the october cell phone messages I read and the restaurant thing, I went NC for the thousandth time. I was out with some friends at a party, and I met this amazing man.  he was gorgeous and smiling.  I adored him. We spent most of the night talking. He told me he couldn't be in relationship because he was hurt by another woman over a year ago and was still not ready to date. we talked a BUNCH. I started asking all sorts of questions... .and the more he described her and what happened... .the more his former girlfriend sounded like my BPD.  A few days later I texted him, thanked him for his insights. Then I got up the courage to ask what he thought his former girlfriend's issues were- Borderline Personality Disorder is what he texted back. I had only heard of it once before and had no idea what it was. I googled it and my world was BLOWN APART. This is my uBPDbf. He has 9/9 clinical symptoms. He is off the chart in my opinion.

I started to have empathy for him, which I hadn't really had up until this last November. I learned as much as I could as fast as I could. I wanted to know if there was hope. I wanted to know if he and I could be together again if we knew what the issues were. Maybe if we could address them, maybe we could DO THIS! Maybe we could be OKAY!

Well... .here I am. Still undecided. Not sure I can do this.

He remains undiagnosed and has completely stopped all therapy. There is nothing wrong with him. It's too expensive. 1000 excuses.  He knows something is wrong with himself, he is not denying that. But he doesn't care enough to do anything about it.  I do have an ultimatum now that we have to go to therapy together... .just as a starting place. Something is better than nothing at this point.

I will admit, a lot of my own baggage right now is my own insecurity... .my own mistrust. I DO NOT TRUST HIM WHAT SO EVER. I know this. I am dealing with it. I am back in therapy. But I just have to think that the lies were too many... .too much. All summer into the fall... .all that time... .all I wanted to do was be with him, and he could have had me if he would have just given her up.

So, my baggage is trust. I want to be in a relationship again... .someday when I am healthy I want to be remarried. I realize I may never have more children... .but I want MORE from my life. I don't want lies.

My biggest problem right now is that I think he is actually TRYING for a change. He is trying really really hard. And  right now I feel like the one with one foot out the door.

But i just simply do not trust him.

Last night's incident he mentioned... .I texted him several times with no response. This is something he did over and over again when he was with his girlfriend (when I didn't know he had a girlfriend- he would stop our conversations abruptly not to respond until the next day). So my trigger was hit last night. I accused him of being with someone else. ATM, I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not. He even went so far as to send me screen shots showing me that he didn't get messages from me last night. (messages that can be easily deleted).

So, this is where I am at. That is a lot of the story- but a lot left out as well. But the important parts were in there. I think if he hadn't have had the girlfriend he lied about the entirety of 2014 about, then I think he and I would be in a better place. But without all of that drama, I wouldn't have found out what his diagnosis is without-a-doubt... .and I wouldn't be here now venting to all of you who must absolutely think i am bat___ cray cray.  There are days I feel bat___ cray cray.

I just want to see the glass half full. I want his text this morning to be his actual feelings. I don't want to lose my best friend, my lover. But he has so deeply hurt me... .not once... .not twice... .not even a hundred times. I don't know if I can get over it. But every time he rages at me, or projects... .i want to throw in the towel and begin my healing.

I think I am out of the FOG. I can see it now. I can see my role is very codependent. I love him and I want the best for him and I want him to be happy. But his issues are BIGGER than me.

Fortunately I am no longer homeless. I have my own place. I can escape him to my oasis. I have my lovely daughter. I have a great career which I have recently ignored while writing this. I have stability. My family is coming back around. I have a future and hope. I would love for him to be a part of it- but I am not sure it will ever happen.

If you lasted with me this long- thanks.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey cloudten,

Your subject line says it all: "WOW, why can't I figure this out?"  The sad reality is that, when it comes to BPD, you probably never will "figure it out."  It's a moving target.  A constantly changing minefield.  What triggered your BF yesterday will be different today.  It's like living under the Sword of Damocles, waiting for the thread to break.  Don't overthink it; start listening to your gut feelings -- you know, that small pilot light that burns within.

LuckyJim

[OnceConfused]

cloudten:

Listen to your intuition. A wise man once said, "Prayer is when you talk to God and Intuition is when God talks to you."

The only problem , based on your writing, is that when God tries to wake you up with the intuition, you have been TOO QUICKLY to hit the snooze button. You keep coming back to the same person with the same behavior, characters, and morality and you expect a different result or a different person. It does not work that way.

Relationship is a dance of two persons. Without your participation, the BPD dance does not and will not exist. You have witnessed so many of his actions that are not suitable to you but yet continue to participate in the dance with him. What makes you think this coming back with him will be better than the last one?

I have not read any positive notes about this man in your post, so I am confused as to why you want to go back to him. Don't forget you have a young daughter that you need to bring up in the right environment.  Would you think that your daughter not recognize your feelings - fear, uncertainty, anger, distrust, love, attachment to this man ? Did she not see him in the restaurant with his supposedly xgf, when you abruptly turned around and walked out?

[cloudten]

cloudten:

Listen to your intuition. A wise man once said, "Prayer is when you talk to God and Intuition is when God talks to you."

The only problem , based on your writing, is that when God tries to wake you up with the intuition, you have been TOO QUICKLY to hit the snooze button. You keep coming back to the same person with the same behavior, characters, and morality and you expect a different result or a different person. It does not work that way.

Relationship is a dance of two persons. Without your participation, the BPD dance does not and will not exist. You have witnessed so many of his actions that are not suitable to you but yet continue to participate in the dance with him. What makes you think this coming back with him will be better than the last one?

I have not read any positive notes about this man in your post, so I am confused as to why you want to go back to him. Don't forget you have a young daughter that you need to bring up in the right environment.  Would you think that your daughter not recognize your feelings - fear, uncertainty, anger, distrust, love, attachment to this man ? Did she not see him in the restaurant with his supposedly xgf, when you abruptly turned around and walked out?

A lot of my spirituality went out the window when BPD came in. I still believe in God, but I have spent a lot of time questioning His reasoning and what He wants me to do now.

Fortunately my daughter was in LA LA land. She didnt see him and I did not confront him. we simply turned around and left.

I guess I still see the glass half full. I believe he truly wants to be a good person. I believe he does love me. I believe he is trying to grow as a person. I believe his efforts are genuine. I have been witnessing changes in him that are deep and different in a good way. But reading things in here, I am not sure they will last. Maybe it is a genuine effort, but he won't fundamentally change... .he'll revert to old ways. 

He is incredibly good looking, he is smart, funny, can be incredibly caring on the good days. he loves his family... .although they are either black or white. He loves his friends.

I just see him wanting to do better and be better. He wants to be a worthwhile human... .and that's more than I have seen from some people's BPDs in this forum. He knows something is wrong with himself. He has been told by me, a previous xgf, and at least one T that he has bPd. He is still in partial denial, but he knows he has to get Better.

Where I stand though... .I think I am now too damaged. Even if he has changed or is changing or wants to do better... .I might be too damaged, too far gone, too lied too, too traumatized. It's something I am trying to figure out in my own therapy. It just all sucks. And when I ask God what I should do... .I have silence. So, I don't do anything. I come here. On the worst days I try to end it. On the best days I bask in the warmth of a briefly loving moment  and wish they could always be that way.

[OnceConfused]

Cloudten:

Interestingly, we want GOD to somehow magically solve our problem with a quick action and result. God would make our team winner in a soccer game, God would make the BPD person be the perfect person of our dream.  We want GOD to do something for us. Well that is often not the case.

Don't ask GOD as to what you should do, ask simply of GOD to give you clarity so that you can make the right decision for yourself and for your life. THe key here is CLARITY in your thoughts so you can make the right decision. 

When my 1st wife got killed in a car accident 10 years ago and left me with 3 young children. I was angry at God at first to take away this faithful wife, this loving mother and to leave my children motherless. But then I realized that perhaps God really wanted my wife to go to some other places to continue her mission, and god really gave me a wake up call. I began the search for what I needed to be and to become. I read books on relationships, on love and marriage (the five love language by G Chapman) to find out what had gone wrong or right in my marriage. I took up yoga and meditation. I engage in Tango classes. At times I was angry at my kids for their teenager's rebellion but I conceded and sought professional therapy.  I have turned a tragedy into the fertile ground for my new growth and new being.

It does not matter how good a person your friend is, how handsome he is, how nice he is, how much he loves you but if you don't feel happy or excited seeing or being with him every day then your r.s is heading toward an inevitable demise. Perhaps this is why 1 out 2 marriages ends in divorce.

So ask yourself some tough questions like why am I not happy with him, what changes he must made to a minimum to make me happy. Also you need to know why he still wants to be with you, and what kind of changes you yourself must make to meet him halfway ?

Relationship is all about compromises. He needs to compromise and you the same. WHere can you both meet in the middle?

If his middle is not the same as your middle than the longer you stay together to longer you both prolong the suffering. Why wasting time ?

[cloudten]

Well... .considering I just had the worst night of my life with him in front of coworkers... .I just can't do this anymore. maybe this was my clarity... .or maybe I don't need God or.anyone to show me anything anymore. I can't do this anymore.  I am broken. Tonight was horrible... .so horrible.

[JohnLove]

cloudten, I have read your story. It was the longest outline I have ever read on here? You deserve some sort of prize.    it helped me to understand. I empathise with you. I am so sorry for you, it is SO hard. The only thing you may be able to achieve is a huge lesson in personal, spiritual, and emotional growth. Don't let this relationship destroy your spirit. God does have a plan for you. Of that I am sure.

Reading How a BPD relationship evolves on this site offered me huge comfort and a degree of protection, and some reassurance of the runaway train that is BPD.

I am still aboard that train. Stay strong. Do what you can. Focus on yourself and your daughter. Make good choices that utilise your heart AND mind. You will know what to do.

[cloudten]

cloudten, I have read your story. It was the longest outline I have ever read on here? You deserve some sort of prize.    it helped me to understand. I empathise with you. I am so sorry for you, it is SO hard. The only thing you may be able to achieve is a huge lesson in personal, spiritual, and emotional growth. Don't let this relationship destroy your spirit. God does have a plan for you. Of that I am sure.

Reading How a BPD relationship evolves on this site offered me huge comfort and a degree of protection, and some reassurance of the runaway train that is BPD.

I am still aboard that train. Stay strong. Do what you can. Focus on yourself and your daughter. Make good choices that utilise your heart AND mind. You will know what to do.

Thanks John!  Today is official day 1 of no contact. We had huge blowouts that should now have successfully ended it all. (Any normal relationship we'd both understand it's over now)

I suppose it is time for me to have that huge lesson in personal, spiritual, and emotional growth. I have never had it, but it's time. I am sure this was part of God's plan for me. I trust him more now- and I know He's carrying me right now. It's been a rough couple days... .but I know it will get better.

My heart and mind agree now. So, this is it. This is real. I am vindicated. I am free. Thanks for reading my long story. It was so much longer than that too. It's been surreal.

[OnceConfused]

Cloudten:

Once you leave or go NC, there will be many moments your attaching mind will want to go back, so you have to stay steadfast on the path . If not, then you will be back to square one.

The NC time will help to cool off the longing, the attachment - this will take about 3 months. So the first 3 months will be the hardest, then it will get easier and easier with each passing day.

Good Luck

[zeus123]

-the truth of the matter is that you always know the right thing to do. the hard part is doing it

  GENERAL H. NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF.

-NO CONTACT is your last word. it is your closure.it is one of the most hurtful narcissistic injuries you could inflict.

-NO CONTACT is so essential. your pride and dignity are riding on it.

-the NO CONTACT rule was the best thing i ever did. STAY STRONG... .

[cloudten]

Cloudten:

Once you leave or go NC, there will be many moments your attaching mind will want to go back, so you have to stay steadfast on the path . If not, then you will be back to square one.

The NC time will help to cool off the longing, the attachment - this will take about 3 months. So the first 3 months will be the hardest, then it will get easier and easier with each passing day.

Good Luck

I can already tell you I have moments where I replay all of the ___ that's happened and I wonder if I am the one over reacting. But I can't be over reacting. But I am having a really hard time trusting my own judgment. Maybe I am the messed up one. But his behavior can't be normal. His projections are not normal. His lies- horrendous and horrible and not normal.  That is where I am at the moment. I started out today strong, but my brain has been making me wonder if I am the one over reacting. I mean he accused me of sleeping with my boss! I have nothing more than a professional, ethical relationship with all of my coworkers. I have never considered let alone given off vibes that I would consider such behavior on my part. I have great self control... .I take great pride in it.

Anyway- my head and heart are already playing games with me. I want to go back. I know I do. But i don't want to. I don't want to be back to square one.

3 months... .okay... .that's doable. 3 months.

In my vindictive mind, I want him to hurt as much as he has hurt me... .so zeus... .if you're right... .and no contact is one of the most hurtful narcissistic injuries I could inflict... .then frankly I'm ready.

THANK YOU!

[eyvindr]

cloudten --

One day at a time. You can do it.

Move on. You deserve better. Bottomline is, regardless of what if anything is wrong with him -- this r-ship is making you stressed, anxious, insecure and unhappy.

You deserve none of those things. And the common thread seems to be the r-ship. Someone once said to me, "If they aren't raising you up, they're bringing you down." Yes, it's trite -- but isn't it pretty much true?

And remember -- again, NC is for you, not him. It's not to teach him a lesson. It's not to see if he can learn from his mistakes. It's so you can move on, unencumbered by his BS.

One day at a time, cloudten. You got this. Hang in there.

[JohnLove]

Let us assist you with your "judgement"... .

If you feel hurt and confused then it is highly likely you have been with a pwBPD. The FOG of fear, obligation, and guilt is very powerful. It can be enormously difficult to maintain perspective, it is part of their plan, but usually at a subconscious level. Right now, I am where you are with my BPDgf, except I haven't given up on her. I am just doing the best I can to hold on to the healthy components of the relationship. I have 2/9 BPD traits. Not a diagnosis. Almost everyone has "something". It is healthy of you to look inside yourself. I question my own sanity at times and constantly replay and reprocess events to look for my bad. Be very careful not to ruminate.

Those thoughts where you question yourself is actually your heart... .trying to convince your mind... .to jump right back in. I think there is a song on the radio. The heart wants what it wants. I know you love him. I know this is hard. But what I know about Love is that it works both ways. Ask yourself. Is this how you want to live?... .because that might be the concession that you have to make in order to "be" with this man. In an intimate relationship, if there is no intimacy, what is there?.  

The very first time you saw him he was acting out with his father. It is much more healthy to have those types of conversations privately. If he had issue with his father he should have kept it "in the family". It is not the worst thing in the world to argue in public but in your case I think that was a red flag. He is now acting out in front of others with you. People only need an audience when they are putting on a show.  

The next stage if you maintain contact with him is a recycle or attempted recycle. That is the text professing love for you. True Love does not hurt. Your heart will pang at statements like this. Only you know your situation. Only you will know if that is BPD manipulation talking. That is what I meant when I said you will know what to do. Your heart is only half the equation.

I am impressed by your own admission of great self control. Exercise your will. It will only get stronger. You know what you need. Don't be confused about that.

Do what you need to do for you. I am not advising you to recycle but you need to do what you need to do. Healthy closure is almost never achieved in a BPD relationship. Be very careful if you are seeking that.

Vindictive thoughts are normal... .and somewhat healthy. But you won't need to worry, he will hurt himself much more than you ever could. He started already by losing you.  

[apollotech]

"but can't there be a glimmer of truth in any of it? is it all a game? is it all one big lie? i love him... .i love everything about him. he's my best friend. I want this all so badly to be true."

With my BPDexgf, I have been exactly where you're at. She was errily adept at saying exactly what I wanted to hear. But her actions NEVER lived up to what she said. That is what you have to keep your focus on. In my case anyway, her words were just lip service. Their actions portray their true self. Flowers are vibrantly beautiful and fragrantly scented for a reason, it's to attract the bees.

[eyvindr]

cloudten ==

Just noticed this in your OP --

I know it's personal- sorry for that i just didn't want to leave anything out. but i'm crying now- and i don't know what to say. I know this is coming from a deeply mentally ill person... .but can't there be a glimmer of truth in any of it? is it all a game? is it all one big lie? i love him... .i love everything about him. he's my best friend. I want this all so badly to be true.

 Of course you want it to be true. You do love him. And, in his way -- his broken, dysfunctional way -- I'm sure he loves you, too.

You want him to be your best friend. I know that feeling -- I've been there. I really was my ex's best friend -- and I wanted her to be mine. But the reality is that my ex never was my best friend. She liked to talk as if she was -- but my best friends would never treat me the way she did. Would yours?

[cloudten]

cloudten ==

Just noticed this in your OP --

I know it's personal- sorry for that i just didn't want to leave anything out. but i'm crying now- and i don't know what to say. I know this is coming from a deeply mentally ill person... .but can't there be a glimmer of truth in any of it? is it all a game? is it all one big lie? i love him... .i love everything about him. he's my best friend. I want this all so badly to be true.

 Of course you want it to be true. You do love him. And, in his way -- his broken, dysfunctional way -- I'm sure he loves you, too.

You want him to be your best friend. I know that feeling -- I've been there. I really was my ex's best friend -- and I wanted her to be mine. But the reality is that my ex never was my best friend. She liked to talk as if she was -- but my best friends would never treat me the way she did. Would yours?

Eyvindr- No- he was not my best friend. He never supported me in anything that I wanted to be/do. He said he wanted me to do my own thing- but then he would rage about it if i did it. Like going to the gym or practicing my instrument. He never took an interest in anything I did... .and actually forced me to give up my interests for his. I eventually fell in love with one of his interests, but it was at the expense of my own. No, a best friend would not have treated me that way. One great thing about this time around is different... .I have TRUE best friends now. Friends that truly love me even though they advised against seeing him again. They are true true best friends... .and I am so thankful to have them.

Apollo- No, his actions never lived up to it either. ever.  In the midst of our breakup... .my wisdom surprised even me... .when I said to him "Actions speak louder than lies"... .because really that is all that ever came out of his mouth was lies. they were all lies. I do think he loved me... .but I think he loved the idea of me... .not actually me.  I like your flower analogy. However, not all flowers are poisonous.   There are pretty people out there (that smell good) and are perfectly healthy normal people... .most of them are taken... .but they are out there.

[apollotech]

Cloudten,

Thank you for your reply. I am very sorry that you have been swept up into the disaster of trying to establish a meaningful relationship with a BPD. I, like many others on these boards, know how you feel and what you face. I am only four days into my NC commitment, and I don't at all feel very good about the demise of the relationship with my BPDexgf. But, in the end, I now know that we never had a chance. No matter what I did, it simply was never going to be enough. The disorder won, sadly. That's a very difficult premise to accept.

My flower analogy wasn't directed at people in general. It was direcetad at people afflicted with BPD. They have developed the skills over the years to draw Non's into their world very quickly. Their "making the Non feel as if he/she is the center of the universe" is, unfortunately, part of the disorder as well. Just as flowers have developed characteristics to attract bees, BPD's have developed skills to attract Non's and keep them in a relationship. Unfortunately, unlike the bees in their relationship with the flowers, Non's are usually severely damaged in relationships with people afflicted with BPD. That was the point I was trying to get across.

I could not agree with you more regarding there being good, wholesome people in the world. My experience with my BPDexgf has in no way changed my view of the world in that regard; I am not bitter or chaste towards others. What I am is more educated as to what to look for if I happen to run across another BPD person in my lifetime. I consider myself to be very blessed to have had the experience with her... .yes, I know that sounds odd, but it was indeed a learning/growing experience for me. I will always be thankful to her for providing that for me, even as painful as it was/is. On a more positive note, I am also blessed in my life to have many people that only want the best for me! Head up, chest out, feet forward... .it's a big, wonderful world out there and I AM going to be a participant in it. May God bless you with that attitude!