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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: I figured it all out. There is no more confusion.  (Read 10316 times)
anxiety5
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« on: February 08, 2015, 09:56:07 AM »

This post is more about me "talking outloud" I find when I write about this relationship, I feel better.

My relationship went down like so many here. She was beautiful, she was smart, she was sexy, we had a great connection. And then the wheels fell off.

I spent time on several forums here. I was cheated on twice that I know of and I rode the roller coaster of emotional peaks and unrivaled low points for well over a year. I too, like so many here, had the confusion, the denial, the fixer reflex to somehow love her to healthy and rescue her from herself. I loved, I was hurt, I loved harder. We were broken from her behaviors, and I tried to fix things. I believed in her with a dangerous level of hope and optimism. Ultimately, things went exactly the way everything I read said they would go.

The way our relationship ended, I was able to save my dignity. It wasn't a cheating blow out or an abrupt discard. It was me, little by little (through education and a lot of you people here whose names Ill never be able to reference to thank you) that I snapped from my hyper fixation on trying to "fix" our relationship. I became more assertive. I explored the depths of myself, my core values (which were obliterated countless times) and was able to begin setting boundaries.

After one of her famous "shunning" episodes because I somehow failed to do something according to her immediate compliance demands, I pushed back. I broke up with her. She didn't believe me, I had cried wolf one too many times. But then she realized I was serious. I realized she had told me everything I needed to know. You see, as I strived more and more to communicate how great things could be if we had more reciprocation, and balance, how we could have a really healthy relationship. How I'm not out to hurt her, and I have proven my loyalty even throughout her betrayal. She didn't have to control things, she could let go. I asked her, what do we have to lose, let's just try things that way. It sounded great, she even was in agreement with everything I said. Yet she could never relinquish her unmitigated need to control and dictate every situation enough to be vulnerable and really invest. There was never any action. There was silence and her pulling away. She would wait until I would finally give up holding my line I drew, and ultimately forget the requests I made for action.

I told her I needed space. She said she still wanted to see me and talk to me. I said "Why?" You are telling me you can't give me any compromise, you can't give me the relationship you used to think you could, why do you want to see me still? her response "Because I really care about you."  What... .? 

It was then I just had this moment where all the education I did, all the ruminating and everything that went down meshed. An infinite amount of data points in my mind connected instantly through space and time, like a puzzle that automatically put itself together as to finally see the picture of what was going on. I think sometimes we know it. Sometimes we see it. But doing both of these things at a precise moment when you've peeled back the defense of denial is the singular moment when it really "hits" home.

If she loved me. If she wanted me around. If she wanted to continue seeing me and being with me, she would have tried to work on us. If she didn't want to be with me though, then why did she still want these things?

Here is my final clarity and the coldness that it paints this person who I once adored is hard to write, and hard to comprehend. But it's factual. I feel fortunate that I get it. That I understand her now. Completely. Probably better than she understands herself.


Here is our relationship not in my clouded world, but the way it really went down without all the fog:



When we met she was separated yet not divorced. She had taken a huge blow to her ego by being rejected by her now ex husband. This was the ultimate loss of control. This is why she sought a relationship so soon. It was not to find love, it was to regain control and to self validate. To prove to herself she could be desired. To find a new source of the supply that was lacking to the point of debilitation.

She cried one time in the beginning because I went to the store. She wanted to hang out with me. When I took things slow because I was worried about the things she was going through she pushed harder for a physical relationship. The more I kept things slow, and stopped her advances the more she sought to hook me. She was desperate for validation. She needed someone to control.

I was love bombed into oblivion. I was smitten in a way I never had been before. It was an incredible rush. We took trips, we talked for hours and we had amazing conversations. I was validating to her that she was still desirable. The moment I let my guard down, she pulled away. It was her first test to see how well she had controlled me. She cheated on me twice, I found out. She said two really bizarre things to me then I never understood. One was "This can't be over. It's not over yet. I need this. I need you." She also said "I could tell by the hurt in your eyes how much you love me and it made me so sad."  These statements can be translated to the fact I validated her self worth through her ability to cause pain in my life. And the type of rush she felt meant she needed more of it. I was confirmed as a great hit of narcissistic supply. She wasn't done yet. She needed more.

She reverted back to the first phase and things were really great for several months. The moment I was back under her spell she began being nasty. The no win situations, the egg shells when she was stressed, the contradictions, the triangulation, the last minute cancellations. She was enjoying so much keeping me on edge all the time. This is an oversimplification of how nasty and cruel she was during this phase.

When I stopped complying and began asking for my own needs to be met, for balance, and for her to follow through with all the promises she made me, she began devaluing me. She did this through cold shoulder and distancing maneuvers. The anger it provoked in me, she'd use against me as her reasoning.

When I finally broke it off and went No Contact after she basically told me she could never give me the relationship I want, I found out she hung out with that same kid again she cheated on the first time. This was her desperation for any hit of attention with an added twist of payback by going to the very person who caused me so much grief the first time around.

She wanted me back. She told me how frustrated she was and how cruel I was for changing my number. She showed up at my house several times desperate to see and talk to me. I asked why. She said because she cares about me so much. When I pointed out that if she cared about me why can't she just try and work on things, she would never answer. I asked her what she wanted from me. She said, please unblock me. I want to still see you. I'm attracted to you. I still want to see and talk to you.  When I told her that I needed time to classify her as a friend first and perhaps someday we could talk, she said "I don't want you to think of me as a friend" Again when I pointed out the contradiction of telling me she wants me, yet doesn't because she won't work on things, she again offered no response.

It was in this moment I realized that she does not love me. I'm an object to her. I provide her with attention, validation and a platform with which to feed her need to control and dump her toxicity on while escaping any accountability. She doesn't want me back, because she isn't even willing to try. It's not about me and my wants, it's about her need to feel in control.

I put her in a position much like that which I found her when we first met. She was feeling rejected, lost control over things and the person who validated her is now saying they don't want her anymore. So desperate to avoid this ego hit again, she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her. I broke things off with her first. And in doing so she wanted me back for no other reason than to be the one who discarded me first.


I'm grateful that I didn't give her that satisfaction. These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were.
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hope2727
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 10:03:14 AM »

Wow. That is really powerful. Thank you for sharing.
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 10:26:54 AM »

This post is more about me "talking outloud" I find when I write about this relationship, I feel better.

she wanted me to just take her back despite offering nothing plausible in return to make things better from her.

She wanted this for one reason. So she could discard me after she got me hooked again. I've realized inside, she is very aware she can't offer much in a relationship that normally adjusted people want eventually. But she realized she over estimated my weakness for her. I broke things off with her first. And in doing so she wanted me back for no other reason than to be the one who discarded me first. [/b]

I'm grateful that I didn't give her that satisfaction. These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were.

You are very insightful. It has served you well to maintain NC. Good for you anxiety! The above is absolutely valid. I believe this is exactly what happened in my situation as well.  They somehow need to be the one who discards. And cannot fathom the reality that they have been. Finally.
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ShadowIntheNight
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 10:54:56 AM »

Here is our relationship not in my clouded world, but the way it really went down without all the fog:



She had taken a huge blow to her ego by being rejected by her now ex husband. This was the ultimate loss of control. This is why she sought a relationship so soon. It was not to find love, it was to regain control and to self validate. To prove to herself she could be desired. To find a new source of the supply that was lacking to the point of debilitation.

You know this is similar to my uBPDexgf. Last April she finally received a judge's verdict on an extended, prolonged custody battle with her exH. They have been divorced 10 yrs and we were together for 9.5 yrs. He has been remarried almost 5 yrs now. When we first met 10 yrs ago now, she was depressed and ego-busted from the exH. She is the one who filed for divorce and hated his guts.she even told me that the whole time she was married she had determined when she got enough money she was divorcing him.

Fast forward this past April, instead of the resounding victory she felt sure she would receive in court and they would see what a horrid father he was and how she would be a dynamo on the witness stand and blow him to kingdom come, she literally is lucky she didn't lose custody of her kids.

I have no idea what happened, but instead of being awarded any additional child support, it was cut in half. The exH got more custody with the kids and literally she lost just about most of the advantages she had previously enjoyed. She even has to go to court-ordered counseling with him. AFTER 10 YRS! Can't even believe that one. What she said to me when she was telling me about the decision makes me sick to my stomach still. Basically she said she would find a man to pay for her kids education and she'd screw him to get it. I kid you not. I still can't comprehend such words, nor the thoughts that could form them.

But I have started thinking that her ego felt so busted by the stunning loss, that she had to find a way to find that she was still desirable to some man. Probably any man. Rather than come to me for comfort (I am a woman, we were in a lesbian relat all those yrs), she needed a stranger and it had to be a man because she was rejected by them.

This whole thing is totally illogical to me. Why run to the arms of a stranger? Because clearly I meant no more to her than a warm body for the time being. And your analysis now makes me realize she will continue the same pattern because people will always disappoint you. And at some point whomever her hero is now, he's gonna slip up and say something that busts her ego, and off she'll be again.
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 11:01:10 AM »

Anxiety,

Thank you so much for writing your story. So many parts duplicated my experience.

"She reverted back to the first phase and things were really great for several months. The moment I was back under her spell she began being nasty. The no win situations, the egg shells when she was stressed, the contradictions, the triangulation, the last minute cancellations. She was enjoying so much keeping me on edge all the time. This is an oversimplification of how nasty and cruel she was during this phase."

This was the last month of our relationship except for the triangulation. Cancelling last minute to a fancy wedding at a hotel, raging so I was walking on eggshells, nice then cruel. During this month he asked me to move in. Hard to figure that one out... .so I could live in fear?

Your story is a reminder off all we have been through. She has so many of the typical traits. I think my exBPD fiancé wanted to hurry and end it before I did too so he could show control.

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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 12:18:18 PM »

Thanks for posting, Anxiety. I'm glad you've come to such a good place of awareness. It really helped to read your post and it is extraordinary how formulaic BPD behavior is. You described my situation to a tee although I never thought of her cheating or proved any of it. It does seem so selfish but at its root is an absolute desperation to fulfil their needs.

My uBPDw would regularly gaslight when we were at our happiest. Then spin it to be my fault, break up and I would obligingly apologize, too willing to accept the blame and try to fix things. When I had done this sufficiently she would re-engage, even offer an apology of her own, I'd be painted white again, hooked. She even said how much closer we would become after each upset/resolution and it was good and normal to go through these intense moments. I now see it as trauma bonding.

It is so good to be clear of the fog and to recognize that for her the relationship was really all about her, despite all her noise to all who will listen about how much she cares for me. I left her because I was so distressed by her crazy-making, uncompromising and hypocritical behavior that I needed to get some distance to think for myself.

Her parents recently left a box of my stuff, the last I hope, packed by my uBPDw. They believe everything she has blackened me with and her father has openly come to my workplace and shouted that I need serious medical help. The reason I mention this is because of your realization 'she does not love me'. I have just gone through the contents of the box where she has returned all the gifts my parents gave her over the years (she blackened them ages ago), half used candle stumps, empty shower gels which I must have bought, but the bit that made me choke and have the same realization as you was in a DVD case. In it was a printout of a pregnancy scan, showing a 4 week old fertilized egg. The pregnancy failed after the 5th week, which I understand is fairly common, but she took this very hard as did I. This was over a year and a half ago so why bring that up now? She knew how upsetting that time was for us and that I tried to support her through it. Part of her painting me black has been to email all my friends and family saying that I am not stable/ potentially suicidal. I am not and am in good contact with all of them. But the last little piece in the box was a calling card for the Samaritans. I can only guess at her twisted mind but putting it together I think she is provoking me either into enraged contact with her or to the brink of contemplating suicide. Either way it's sick and almost got me angry. I will not break NC. I went for a beautiful walk in the sunshine and thought how sad it must be to want to hurt someone in that way. She certainly doesn't love me or care for me. The good thing is I hope this is her final realization that it is definitely over which in 7 months nc I don't think she got.

Sorry for the rant. Not sure how much sense it made. This community is such a great place.
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 05:18:48 PM »

Great read.  I will revisit and read again.

I had a similar "all stars align" moment.  A few weeks prior I had unearthed a bunch of lies, and she knew my trust was shot and she better be on her best behavior.  We went to a bar (bad environment for her, but thank goodness we did) and a strange man approached her while she was away from me to go to the bathroom or something.  She melted into talking to him and did her flirty thing for way too long and began moving closer and closer to him.  I looked at her face as it danced around in her fake/sincerely enthralled by new male attention/odd seductive and flirtatious dance.  How she hadn't even glanced away in 15 minutes and had no idea where I was even at, and we had come there alone and together.  How this guy was obviously hitting on her, and she either didn't know or care and certainly didn't care what I'd think and that maybe she had spoken with him in that way a bit too long.  And I just knew "this girl is not capable of acting like a person I'd want to be with because her brain just doesn't work like mine does at all".  Broke up within 15 minutes of that.
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« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 05:54:11 PM »

Anxiety,

Seems like your doing a lot of self reflecting which is Awsome.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Here is some food for thought though.  It could be that maybe she does care about you and love you but her disorder which is deeply ingrained ego defence  mechenisms and she simply can not see past them.  That her emotionally arrested development prevents her from being able to comprehend the concepts you were trying to convey to her.  That what she probably picked up on in that moment is that she failed you because there is something wrong with Her and might lose you because of it.  The kind of fear a child has  of being abandoned in the Alaskan wilderness.  
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Technique
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« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 06:42:43 PM »



My relationship went down like so many here. She was beautiful, she was smart, she was sexy, we had a great connection. And then the wheels fell off.

+1 my friend... Your story reflects mine almost to a T. I admire you and the strength you've illustrated.

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anxiety5
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 09:10:22 PM »

Anxiety,

Seems like your doing a lot of self reflecting which is Awsome.

Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Here is some food for thought though.  It could be that maybe she does care about you and love you but her disorder which is deeply ingrained ego defence  mechenisms and she simply can not see past them.  That her emotionally arrested development prevents her from being able to comprehend the concepts you were trying to convey to her.  That what she probably picked up on in that moment is that she failed you because there is something wrong with Her and might lose you because of it.  The kind of fear a child has  of being abandoned in the Alaskan wilderness. 

I don't disagree with your input. My seemingly detached description of her as if she is a science experiment serves a purpose. When I used to pity her, I'd regress into making excuses for her. When I'd make excuses for her, I'd become weak, I'd assume blame for things I shouldn't and I did not properly enforce boundaries (how can you enforce boundaries with someone who isn't capable of understanding their own behavior) This caused me to lose myself, to remain weak and to simply begin accepting a future of betrayal and hurt. Iam compassionate. If I had one wish, it would be to some how cure her of all of this maddening nonsense. Not even for me, but for her child. Even if someone told me I could have that wish, but in doing so I couldn't have her, I'd agree to it. Point being my motives are sincere. I feel sorry for her and even if it meant I could never see her again, or reap the rewards of her being miraculously "cured" I'd still wish for it because it hurts me to know that she could have such a happy life, but is her own worst enemy.

That being said, ignorance is only bliss when you remain unaware. Once enlightened, you must take actions to make smart decisions regarding my future. You wouldn't fault someone for sleeping next to a Lion if they didn't know any better. Some days would be good, but at any given moment for no reason a beautiful, graceful animal may wake up and decide to consume you. Once you have managed to become enlightened, you may have injuries from the Lion but you've managed to survive without being eaten. You may not hold any resentment for the animal. It doesn't know any better. It's not necessarily personal. But either way, it does not change the fact that if you choose to sleep next to it another night, you very well may never wake up. You can still appreciate the Lion for it's beauty, for it's characteristics of strength and mite, it may not hate you, infact it may enjoy your company very much. But the facts are, it's dangerous for me as a person to remain in close contact with it. So my only choice is to not be blinded by it's beauty, or moments of grace, but instead focus on the knowledge I have gained in knowing that it will eventually eat me alive.

Crazy analogy but you get my point.
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anxiety5
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« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2015, 09:32:02 PM »

You described my situation to a tee although I never thought of her cheating or proved any of it.

I would have never known about the cheating either. Let me tell you this. If your gut instinct told you she was, than my friend, she was. After she stood me about a year ago, totally out of nowhere (we hadn't even fought at this point once) I got that gnawing sense that there was more to this than simply having too much to drink and forgetting to call, or answer her phone. When her behavior continued after this event in a distancing manor, I became hyperaware and was paying attention to things. A month later she picked a fight with me out of nowhere and cancelled plans with me on a Friday. Work had been stressful for her all week and I planned a fun night out at the place we had our first date, a few drinks, dinner and to just unwind. All of the sudden that day she told me she wanted a night alone to just sleep. It's not that ridiculous of a request, it's just the fact of everything that led up to it. So I said ok. I talked to her by phone after work around 8 or 9. She told me she was going to sleep. She was rushed to get off the phone. About 2 hours later, I text her to let her know she left her earrings at my house, I had found them. These situations are all about behavior and behavioral patterns along with odd changes that occur. I was always a night owl of sorts, so it was no wonder I was awake at almost midnight. She on the other hand (especially when she was really tired was in bed by 9, for probably 99% of the time we were ever together she could sleep like a rock) Well she instantly text me back, "thanks" Hmm, that's odd. She's up. I text her back, are you awake? She said "going to bed now." 

I had a friend come over. He asked how things were and I filled him in on the events of the past month. Her standing me up, etc etc. As I started talking about everything, I got this overwhelming feeling of anxiety that arose inside my body. He left at 2am. I hated myself for doing this but I sat on my couch thinking, I know something is up. As I debated about what I was about to do, I remembered how I was cheated on in my previous relationship. How I was so ignorant to it and how I never wanted to go down that path again. I decided to drive by her house. She lives a mile away. The entire time I was angry at myself. I said, if nothing is up, I'm going to go to counseling... .maybe all the trauma from my previous relationship hasn't gone away as much as I thought it had.  So I drive by her house and boom! her car is gone! It's 230am! I text her "WOW" nothing else. She has an iPhone. I see the little dots appear when someone is going to respond. They appear, go away. Appear, go away. She was panicked. She said "hey are you up?" I said "YEP" And then she made small chat that I ignored completely. I drove back home and just sat here numb. I waited 60 minutes and drove by again, and her car was there. I was livid. I called her and flipped out. I said, cut the BS I know you cheated on me tonight. She faked a panic attack and tried denying it for the next 5 hours. She told me this concluded crazy story how she went for a drive by herself and drank in her car because she was stressed. What? And that changed 10 times. Finally I said, ok here is the deal. I don't believe you. You are mad because I don't believe you. Here is your chance to prove me wrong and if you do I'll humbly apologize, go to a counselor and you can beat me up all you want. Log onto your phone account online, show me what numbers you texted from 10-2am besides me. She raged at me. I said, don't ever call or talk to me again. Show me, prove me wrong. Finally she called me back crying and asked if she could come over. She sobbed and told me that she had been with a coworker guy and to no surprise that was who she was with the night she stood me up too.

I learned in this incident to NEVER deny your gut instinct. We have evolved for millions of years and have only been domesticated living in societal life for a fraction of a fraction of that length of time. Our bodies and our minds are fine tuned machines that survived for eons through the ability to sense/perceive and interpret danger. Anxiety/fear/adrenaline. Those feelings are primal and they exist to serve a purpose. If you trust your gut instinct you will find that you are rarely incorrect.
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2015, 10:11:54 PM »

My point when it all connected was a lot simpler: She told me she was breaking up with me (for around the 18th time), and I felt a sense of profound relief. It was like 'yes, if we split I don't have to deal with all of this anymore, I can go back to being happy, I don't have to be afraid any more', and I realized that it was the right decision. I had several moments of questioning, but I'd just fall back on how relieved I felt to confirm that ending was the right decision.
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 11:06:44 PM »

Thank you Anxiety
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 11:43:36 PM »

I tend to think if they "love " you it is something they can turn on and off an the next /last is / was the same as you they just run round trying to find easy marks to control who wont hurt their ego so put me firmly in anxiety s camp
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« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2015, 12:40:47 AM »

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.
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« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2015, 10:48:49 PM »

I could have written exactly this regarding my declarations to my BPDexgf. I always felt as if I was having to talk her into the relationship, the relationship that she declared she wanted with me... .of course, along with her unending love for me. It was a nightmare:

"You see, as I strived more and more to communicate how great things could be if we had more reciprocation, and balance, how we could have a really healthy relationship. How I'm not out to hurt her, and I have proven my loyalty even throughout her betrayal. She didn't have to control things, she could let go. I asked her, what do we have to lose, let's just try things that way. It sounded great, she even was in agreement with everything I said. Yet she could never relinquish her unmitigated need to control and dictate every situation enough to be vulnerable and really invest. There was never any action. There was silence and her pulling away. She would wait until I would finally give up holding my line I drew, and ultimately forget the requests I made for action."
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« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2015, 11:11:16 PM »

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.
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« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2015, 11:25:24 PM »

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.

Another common theme: they escalate quickly because they want you to fall for them well before you know much about them.
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2015, 07:35:58 AM »

Wow Anxiety... .thanks for taking the time, thought, and effort to write that down... .I so identify.

I think that you gave me fuller understanding of what I went thru.   NC and distance give clarity for me, too. (as much as I may not have wanted it! )

Not, too long after my ex ran off with new supply, (actually it was at about one year... but there was very little contact after the first month)... .she had occasionally contacted me... .but I intuitively knew why even in all my emotional pain... .it was just for control. It was just to see if I was still there as a backup.  I didn't contact her... .my pain was very great and I missed her terribly... .but I stood strong (had no idea about this website or BPD then)... .At about the one-year point... .(her new supply was away for the weekend... .WOW how could she possibly survive... oh... wait... .contact ME!)... .I got a very immature triple-drive-bye AND pull-in! (I was out putting my MTB on my car with my shades on... .watched the whole ridiculous thing go down in front of me and gave away nothing).  When she started to get out of the car I just asked, are you still with "my replacemetnt" she said yes and I just said GOOD-bye" and she drove off... I  did end up caving in (thinking that I was mean ... .big mistake!)  and calling her on the phone. I think she wanted to be with me ... told me the guy was away for the weekend... .yet she was also telling me that "nothing would change." ? At the time I didn't realize that her abandonment issues were so strong that she could not be alone for 2 days and she did not care ANYTHING about me or my feelings... it was just about her immediate needs. Totally.

I am very sensitive ... .which is why all of this has been so God-Awful painful for me... .but my awareness just knew that as confused as I was that whole incident was all about her needs and that me and my feelings and the good person that I was to her had NOTHING to do with that visit.  I told her in no uncertain terms that I would not spend ANY time with her under her prescribed conditions. NONE.  

I regrouped and had some "emergency" meetings with my T and then I sent her a voice message that told her that I was disappointed in her and how she had treated me and how in no uncertain terms that I did not like the person that she showed me that she was and that I did not want her in my life in any way, shape or form.  It almost killed me.  The words were soo struck in my throat... .but I go them out... .She did not respond... .and I have maintained absolute NC since then ... .although she tries to walk up to me in public (ONLY if she is alone... .her behavior is QuITE different if she is with him). I never allow her to get close to me.   She still just wants to see if she has the hook set.  Its years later and her advances are just about her needs... .oh goody... .would I love to be her (I think) husband.  I bet he would feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that she is trying to ambush me in a grocery store parking lot. Ick.

I was always soo perplexed about what you so eloquently put into words here.   My thought about what went down with us was ... .What the heck... .you end our relationship and run off with this guy and just replace me in 5 mins.  and in the end it is really ME who has to go through the painful ACTIONs of ending the relationship.  That always caused me so much pain and confusion... .and ... .um... .ANGER!

... .but after coming here and reading your post and understanding what BPD is... .I have a full understanding of what makes her tick... .and that I intuitively handled that situation as best as I could to save me... .I guess it will always hurt though. For me to actually have to really end it is such a kick in the face... .but I "get-it" even more now.

Thanks again for writing that!  
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2015, 08:25:04 AM »

This: "These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were" is the truth. Realizing what really went on in there, that your idea of the relationship was never what it really was, helps me push throught and keep NC.
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2015, 08:40:22 AM »

This: "These realizations are what make NC easy for me. Seeing things as they were" is the truth. Realizing what really went on in there, that your idea of the relationship was never what it really was, helps me push throught and keep NC.

YES!
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« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2015, 12:56:20 AM »

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.
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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2015, 01:07:13 AM »

WOW. That's like reading my story exactly.  She was as well going thru a divorce me too n yes beautiful n smart n sexy. All the things she did n you are so exactly alike it scary. Its their playbook by default. Its who they are n our interaction to please n worship them until we learn but that only comes after much denial n pain.  Excellent post.

Another common theme: they escalate quickly because they want you to fall for them well before you know much about them.

I couldn't agree more. She escalated all aspects of the relationship. It was like a blanket slowly covered me and began to suffocate me from my own intuition. That little twinge in my gut that this was abnormal behavior, an odd situation or moving to fast began to become more faint like a beacon slowly running out of battery power. When it died I lost myself. I was now in the vortex of the crazy dance without a compass to find my way out. The conflict of these relationships is a sign we are normal. It's a fight for our survival to defend our morals and values as they become muddied and betrayed. The depression and withdraw we feel are because we are being violated and abused. And the only way someone can have a willing participant in this process is an onslaught of monopolizing their time through manipulative and fake connection, intense physical relations with reinforced ego boosts to our self confidence and future promises to keep us going. Only once we have ignored all the little things and allow ourselves to get to this place is it possible for the fun to begin for them. We are bowling pins, they want us lined up as soon as possible so they can roll a strike and smash us to the ground. But just like in a bowling alley, the arm will continue picking you up and putting you back in line for another round of knock down. Each conflict you have with them  once you are betrayed, each sleepless night, each time a fall out occurs that is your window opening to get out. And once away, your instincts begin to recharge and you finally see the insane levels of craziness that you were conditioned to tolerate and absorb.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2015, 01:07:37 AM »

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

Thank you for this, brother.

It all resonated with me.

I was mostly angry over what I put up with, angry with myself.  And also angry over her lack of understanding.

What you wrote helped me.
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anxiety5
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« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2015, 01:15:28 AM »

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

Thank you for this, brother.

It all resonated with me.

I was mostly angry over what I put up with, angry with myself.  And also angry over her lack of understanding.

What you wrote helped me.

I went to a counselor for the first time about 2 months ago. If you haven't please do yourself a favor, go. Even if you are doing ok, which I think Im doing right now, I can't really tell you how therapeutic it is to have someone who understands this pathology to hear you out, to validate the things you felt and went through and to help you process it all and really and truly let go. It's powerful. I feel a release of energy each week I go. I feel lighter when I leave, clear, validated. I admit and know I should have left earlier but my willingness to go talk to someone is all the validation I need to myself to forgive myself. All you can do in life is try your best, fail, and learn from your mistakes to get better. A lot of times I think I did the first two and then got stuck right there in feelings of failure vs letting myself of the hook and learning from it. If you learn anything from a bad situation, you have made it a situation that will make you stronger, wiser and ultimately happier because you've grown.

Sounds like you are doing great and I'm really happy about that. This message is for everyone out there that feels there is stigma with going to a counselor for this stuff. It's very helpful and they are really the perfect ally to help us all move on and this time, NEVER date one of these people again.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2015, 01:50:55 AM »

Yeah, letting go is NOT easy.  Well not in our particular cases.  I had so much resentment.  Letting go of that isn't easy either it gets comfortable after a while.

I'm still letting go. Day by day and guys, it's working so just stick with it. I find as more time passes, I'm getting better. When I say better, I mean gaining clarity. Have you ever thought you wanted something really really really bad. Like convinced of some life event and you had it all decided and then you go to bed and wake up feeling the exact opposite? Seeing how crazy it is and what you wanted just the night before? These relationships isolate you, deplete your resources, foster codependency and dependency in general. As much as you feel that need to contact them. To check on their social media, to drive by their house, to find out information, to ruminate, etc. If you avoid contact, take all those obsessive thoughts and write a letter that you never send to get them out and close your eyes and ask yourself how do I feel? rather than distract yourself with obsessive feelings it will help you avoid contacting them. What I find is as each day passes it's more like that feeling when you wake up from making some drastic change you were so convinced of the night before. There is a crisp new clarity to things and in your rear perspective you are no longer an active participant in the downward spiral, you are a third party observer and you finally see and feel how crazy it was, and how much you don't want that. All that resentment is good to get out on paper. We all have stages of letting go and grieving. That anger you hold on is an ally that's what will keep you in the moment and remind you of why you left. Just don't hold onto it too hard. Feel it, write it down. Forgive yourself. You are a good person who didn't have ulterior motives. You wanted to love someone and have them love you back. You wanted all the good stuff with this person and you never wanted to hurt them. You adored them. This is our time to take action. Regain control and the first part of that is to forgive yourself. Read above. These are GOOD intentions you and all of us had. We should not carry the weight of the fact that they screwed it up. Let them carry it or better yet, let it go. You did nothing wrong except try to love someone unlovable. Sure we should have gotten out sooner. Sure we need to feel better about us. Sure we should have higher expectations but that's the gift of these crazy people. They taught us more about what we want and don't want than we ever even knew. They reaffirmed our values and morals. Through their void, they have shown us more about our good characteristics like love, loyalty, hope, optimism. And if you need a place to start feeling good about yourself start here. We all just endured a hell that most people could never endure. The spin from most people is they choose us because we were weak and they could manipulate us. The truth is they chose us because we were STRONG enough to endure their abuse and still stand. Let go of all the anger, do it at your own pace but let the grip loosen each day a little bit.

Thank you for this, brother.

It all resonated with me.

I was mostly angry over what I put up with, angry with myself.  And also angry over her lack of understanding.

What you wrote helped me.

I went to a counselor for the first time about 2 months ago. If you haven't please do yourself a favor, go. Even if you are doing ok, which I think Im doing right now, I can't really tell you how therapeutic it is to have someone who understands this pathology to hear you out, to validate the things you felt and went through and to help you process it all and really and truly let go. It's powerful. I feel a release of energy each week I go. I feel lighter when I leave, clear, validated. I admit and know I should have left earlier but my willingness to go talk to someone is all the validation I need to myself to forgive myself. All you can do in life is try your best, fail, and learn from your mistakes to get better. A lot of times I think I did the first two and then got stuck right there in feelings of failure vs letting myself of the hook and learning from it. If you learn anything from a bad situation, you have made it a situation that will make you stronger, wiser and ultimately happier because you've grown.

Sounds like you are doing great and I'm really happy about that. This message is for everyone out there that feels there is stigma with going to a counselor for this stuff. It's very helpful and they are really the perfect ally to help us all move on and this time, NEVER date one of these people again.

I'll admit I am at least slightly obsessed with my ex and our relationship, as evidenced by my posting here everyday.

She has likely moved on with her legs in the air as I type.

I should probably seek some outside help.  Thank you.
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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2015, 10:51:53 AM »

If you find a counselor who is versed on this issue and who is a good "fit" for you it can be a great experience for personal growth.

I had to try twice... .and my second counselor was great. I also had to go to counseling with the attitude that I was going there to help love myself... .not "fix" me.  

It was the best thing that I ever did... .I needed some intimate perspective.  
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2015, 06:04:34 PM »

Anxiety I can really relate to the sentiment of I tried my best to love my ex would had went to the end of the earth for her, took a billet for her all of that stuff. Then I got to this phase where I convinced nearly she is just unloveable.  I even texted her that which I regretted immediately after and sent me into  an even deeper personal crisis.  How could I say something so mean so cruel?

I had too look at my obsessiveness and the fact I was fighting not going stalker mode.  All of that crap and how easy it was to blame my ex for my regressed state but I had to come to terms with i was attracted to a senario that led me to this regressed state.  To the point of obsession I was obsessed with getting to this regressed state and in many ways love was just an excuse. Not that the love wasn't real or true, but that there was something about that very painfull state of desperation that I entered to resolve something and that what ever that was existed before I met my BPD ex. 
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2015, 06:40:39 PM »

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2015, 06:59:36 PM »

The ironic thing was it was when a pwBPD came on the board and ripped into us about the behaviors on the leaving Board that eventually turned into a rant against the site  that did it become clear.  She was right.  I think she came on the site to learn about her disorder and read the leaving board and got triggered but she spoke a lot of hard truths.

link?
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