Help. Advice needed on kids strategy

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My wife kicked me out of the house. I opened a domestic violence docket which has got me back in the house.

However she has moved 2 doors down  to a neighbour who is convinced (by my wife) that she is protecting the kids against me.

They won't give me access to my kids. If I go over there they tell me to get off the property.

OK, so I've got the house back,  but now it's about the kids.

The obvious thing is to file at the children's courts, which I will do, resulting in a hearing and it's decideddecided from there until the divorce is final.

Any other advice from people who have been here?

[Moselle]

My wife kicked me out of the house. I opened a domestic violence docket which has got me back in the house.

However she has moved 2 doors down  to a neighbour who is convinced (by my wife) that she is protecting the kids against me.

They won't give me access to my kids. If I go over there they tell me to get off the property.

OK, so I've got the house back,  but now it's about the kids.

The obvious thing is to file at the children's courts, which I will do, resulting in a hearing and it's decideddecided from there until the divorce is final.

Any other advice from people who have been here?

[ForeverDad]

Well, I would agree that staying in the home, even if she tries to leave with the children, is better than leaving and not taking the children with you.  You living in the family home will make it almost a no-brainer for the judge to agree to have the children return home, though mother may still get majority time with them, since 'motherhood' is still a gender default in many areas.

My story, I got the house and my ex lived in a women's shelter - "House of Peace" - even though she was the one facing trial for Threat of DV.  However, judge decided temp custody and majority time, not on that but on a far different question, "What are your work schedules?"  I said I had a regular weekday job.  She said she "worked from home" (yet she was not allowed in the home).  So she got temp custody and majority time.  Our preschooler got to live in a shelter for a couple months.  Go figure.

Be very prepared for her to try to make you look worse than her.  You may have your proof but she will have emotionally-compelling claims.  False allegations are very likely to be made, horrendous ones, both in and out of court.  Court is a mine field, it can make your case or break you.  Make sure you have read the essential handbook for this board, Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill eddy and Randi Kreger.  One good thing about court is that your ex's sense of Entitlement will, to some extent, come face to face with The Real Authority - family court.  Family court will hope the parents settle but will step in if it has to.

[SlyQQ]

If there are no orders in place i imagine you would be able to pick up the kids from school ( check this with a lawyer an inform the school and your wife ) weather this is wise is another question You seemed locked into a legal process at this stage an the courts in this area are stacked against men , You need to communicate with your children ( age approprite ) and see what they want this may help you work out what to do next continual escalation does not seem wise from here

[Moselle]

She's done that already. And put those things in writing :-(

It all starts

[livednlearned]

Two important questions:

What has she put in writing already?

What have you filed? What is a domestic violence docket?

Until there is a temporary order in place, you can pick the kids up from the school. If it's a public school, the laws are very clear -- unless there is a court document denying you, they cannot stop you. More importantly, they cannot prevent your wife from denying you access to your kids.

You can also call law enforcement and have them do domestic assistance. They will make sure nothing happens while you visit the kids. Police can't enforce civil orders even if there was one in place, so their role is simply to make sure that people behave and cooperate. Unfortunately, it can be upsetting to the kids to have police show up like that, so use this as a last resort.

Your wife is likely telling the kids all kinds of things about you. It's important that you get those kids into counseling of some kind. Not all pwBPD are high-conflict, but if your wife has already started to make false allegations and look for negative advocates, she is likely to do the same thing with the court system.

What is your plan right now? Try to stay as calm as possible -- my ex is/was very high-functioning like you describe your wife (if I remember correctly). He is also a former trial lawyer, and you would think he might have a leg up knowing the court system. But BPD is BPD, and the distortions and disorder eventually comes to light. But you have to have a good strategy and can't make careless mistakes.

Above all else, focus on the kids otherwise you'll fall into the trap of fighting her instead of protecting them. And the court system will spit both of you out.

[ForeverDad]

Until there is a temporary order in place, you can pick the kids up from the school. If it's a public school, the laws are very clear -- unless there is a court document denying you, they cannot stop you. More importantly, they cannot prevent your wife from denying you access to your kids.

Though I would add my comment that by forcing the issue you could prompt your stbEx to try to get an emergency order (read: allegations) to block you.

You can also call law enforcement and have them do domestic assistance. They will make sure nothing happens while you visit the kids. Police can't enforce civil orders even if there was one in place, so their role is simply to make sure that people behave and cooperate.

My police weren't much help except to ensure ex wasn't aggressive against me.  Yes, when we had disputes they encouraged us to work it out (read: "come on, give in and allow an exchange" and failing that then "fix it in court".  That was the extent of their help.  I had been blocked by my then-separated spouse for months.  I called them and asked if they would accompany me to avoid an incident and they declined, telling me to call back when I had a court order (which took months).  Yet when I asked what they would do if I went to see my son and she called 911, they said they'd immediately respond.  Well, I decided I couldn't risk arrest just for trying to see my son, so I waited for court and didn't see my son for 3 months.  Clearly they were not going to force the parent "in possession of the child" to be reasonable.

You may want to ask your local police how they handle high conflict exchanges and attempts for exchanges or visits.

I wasn't able to contact him at school or daycare either since he was only 3 years old at the time and she kept him with her all the time.

Your wife is likely telling the kids all kinds of things about you. It's important that you get those kids into counseling of some kind. Not all pwBPD are high-conflict, but if your wife has already started to make false allegations and look for negative advocates, she is likely to do the same thing with the court system.

Above all else, focus on the kids otherwise you'll fall into the trap of fighting her instead of protecting them. And the court system will spit both of you out.

My lawyer was quick to tell me "Courts like counseling."  Sorry, the court won't force an obstructive ex to change for the better in counseling - she's an adult - but your ex almost surely cannot block you from getting court backing for the children to have counselors.  (At a bare minimum the children can see the school counselors.)  But then your ex will try to sabotage the counseling by approving only gullible counselors or blocking your access to bringing the children for sessions.  You need to be sure to get equal access to the counselors as well as selecting experienced ones who can recognize alienation and manipulation when they see it.

[Grey Kitty]

Have you got a lawyer of your own yet?

[ForeverDad]

Try to get the best temporary order you can from the very start.  Temp orders have a tendency to morph later into final orders, judges may not be interested in changing what in their view seems to be working.

[Moselle]

Thanks.

I'll be going for one tomorrow. I finally got to see my kids. She agreed to let them come over for lunch with a friend, today, but she inserted herself as well. I can't refuse, so she came and acted all queen like.

OK well. I got to see my kids and make lunch for them.

She cornered me once in the kitchen and tried to have a go. But I just walked away.

I never actually knew this woman. She even looks different. There's almost a glazed look in her face. She's in permanent dysregulation at the moment from all the stress.

[livednlearned]

Document it.

It may be even more stressful for a while as lawyers get involved, and the simplest things become hard to remember. Keep a log of everything.

The dysregulation/psychosis was the downfall of my ex. He looked and acted like a functioning adult, but his thinking was so disordered he could not hide the fact that something was very wrong. And he didn't realize how disordered he was.

[formflier]

 

Do you have a family T lined up?

Talk it over with your L... .but picking kids up to go to family T... .might be a good thing to consider.

Courts love counseling... .

But... make sure this flows with your legal strategy with your L.

[ForeverDad]

I finally got to see my kids. She agreed to let them come over for lunch with a friend, today, but she inserted herself as well. I can't refuse, so she came and acted all queen like.

This is what is good about courts... .They are the Ultimate Authority as far as parenting is concerned.  They don't like one parent to impose upon the other parent's time.  And they won't allow non-standard terms and conditions either.  So once you get a court order, then more or less her time is her time and your time is your time.  No conditions.  No terms.  No ultimatums.  No "or else" dictates.  (Well, not as much as you face now.)

About all she can do to keep you from the children is to allege 'substantive' child abuse, child neglect or child endangerment.  If she does that then the court might BRIEFLY limit you to supervised visits, brief visits or day visits only until they get an agency or professional to evaluate you or the family.  So if that happens, try to have them assess or evaluate the entire family INCLUDING HER!  Don't let the focus be only on you and your parenting.

In too many cases, the accusing parent get the other parent evaluated and nothing is found but early in the case the accuser walks away without being scrutinized.

[formflier]

So if that happens, try to have them assess or evaluate the entire family INCLUDING HER!  Don't let the focus be only on you and your parenting.

In too many cases, the accusing parent get the other parent evaluated and nothing is found but early in the case the accuser walks away without being scrutinized.

Is there a way to ask for this early in the process... .get both parents parenting evaluated... .get a family T... .approved by the court... .to give rules about "proper parenting".

My view... .is the sooner the appropriate professionals shine the light on Moselle and his wife... .the better for Moselle.

thoughts?