BPD/NPD wife awarded interim primary care

[Moselle]

Dear all,

She got to the courts first. She has obtained an interim order to get primary custody of the children. Pending an investigation.

Now what? Any experience out there?

[david]

Was she the primary caretaker before ? If not then you need to have documentation showing that. Continue documenting everything you can from here on out.

Not sure but a custody evaluation may be the route to show that. Finding a good evaluator is key. If you have a good attorney he/she should know which ones are good and which ones are not. My first atty thought they were all about the same. I had no idea and just went with whoever was suggested first. That was a mistake. I found a new atty and he had a list in his head of who he recommended and who to steer clear off. The second eval exposed ex very clearly. Also, the report that was written was pretty much not contestable in a legal sense. The first eval was written so haphazard it was pretty much debunked in court.

[livednlearned]

Moselle,

I don't think you've mentioned whether you have a lawyer or not? It will help us understand what you're up against if you have one who isn't counseling you very well.

Courts care about the kids. You, not so much. So they will do whatever they believe is in the interests of the child. There can be a gender bias in the courts, and she just did what is common among women who want to protect their kids. File first, file quickly, get ahead of things. You're on the defensive but it's not the end of the world.

You have to hut-to a little bit here. If she's intelligent, entitled, and has a lawyer, and you don't, she is going to drive the pace (and likely make this more high-conflict than it needs to be) and it could get worse before it gets better.

 

[ogopogodude]

Moselle, ... if things are really on the up and up, ... . and you are the father that you say that you are, ... .then beat her to the social services agency.  Phone The Ministry of Children and Family Development aka social services and then speak with one or two agents in order to "open a file" and tell all... Just tell the TRUTH and do not hide anything.  

SS wants one thing and one thing only: for the children of a family to have a safe and healthy environment to grow up in.  Verbal and emotional abuse will not be tolerated by SS.  It is as damaging if not more so, than physical abuse. But you have to be able to PROVE this is occurring.   If it isn't and you are trying to simply make your wife LOOK like a bad person, then this antic will backfire on  you.  In other words, you better be telling the truth.  

The Ministry can and will investigate and they will even interview your children if and only if there is ONE parent that will allow this... . Even if the other parent says "no" to children being interviewed by a social services agent, it doesn't matter.

With YOUR permission the kids will have a 1/2 hour interview regardless of what your spouse says.

There is nothing, and I do mean NOTHING like having social services in your back pocket AS LONG As you do not b__s__ them.   Give them videos and audio clips of your wife emotionally abusing the kids. Social services really doesn't care if you spouse is having an affair, or treats you like a dog... .they care about one thing and one thing only and that is the welfare of the kids.

[SlyQQ]

I think you need to try an get ahead of the curve list the possible options your wife may employ including framing you and decide what you will do in response or what remedial actions you can take to ameliorate the repercussions

[scraps66]

Moselle, ... if things are really on the up and up, ... . and you are the father that you say that you are, ... .then beat her to the social services agency.  Phone The Ministry of Children and Family Development aka social services and then speak with one or two agents in order to "open a file" and tell all... Just tell the TRUTH and do not hide anything.  

I would be careful with this step, maybe if you have no representation.  I was told by a school psychologist that in her experience these people rarely help a situation. 

It seems as if ex went ahead and got an order without you?  I didn't realize that could happen without properly notifying you and with the court assuring that you had representation.  I know around me that if a PFA is filed, that can trigger immediate custody to the filing parent - I think.  The PFA is typically used improperly in my courthouse and lawyers know it and use it.

[livednlearned]

Agree with Scraps about not going directly to CPS or DSS until you've talked to a lawyer. The Canadian system may be better than what exists here in the US -- you want to find out from someone who knows the system first whether it's effective or not before diving in.

It could be that your wife got an ex parte emergency order? If so, did she allege something about you?

[Moselle]

My lawyer is very switched on. She's a family law specialist. We are fighting the SS in a cohesive way. I was a bit emotionally charged but she came in and was able to really dig holes in W's nonsense. There are no facts she said.  This is a all hearsay and sentiment. What are the facts you are a basing this interim order on. I suppose if you come into a SS office crying, dragging 3 children with you, you get a sympathetic reaction regardless of the facts.

The court dates are set for March, but she's trying to get them brought forward. 4 different datea.  2 restraining orders. 2 childcare custody orders.

What a nice way to spend 4 days of leave. I'll be ready. And ideas on how to prepare for court. I've never been before

[livednlearned]

It's a good idea to look at how things work in your state. Each state has a slightly different series of hearings and filings and timelines.

A the first hearing, often it's only lawyers who do the talking.

Be prepared to hear the other attorney say things that make you upset or mad. Your wife's L is ethically bound to represent his/her client, and at this point, it sort of becomes theater. Stay calm. Don't roll your eyes or sigh loudly or shake your head. Be deferential and respectful to the judge. Your L is now your talking head and unless you are expected to testify (not likely) then she will do all the talking. If you're nervous, find a place somewhere near the judge's head and focus there. Find a spot in the courtroom that you use to remind yourself to take a deep breath. This is mile 1, you have 25.2 to go, so pace yourself.

Remember that court sees this stuff all the time. It's a stream of humanity through those doors, often with stories far far worse that what you're experiencing, if you can believe it. Child molestation, child abuse, parents in prison, drug abuse, serious child neglect.

Also, if you can arrange it, have someone come with you who takes notes. Everything will go by very quickly and some of it will whizz right over your head. You don't want to figure it all out while spending $300/hour or whatever you're paying. It helps to have a friend or trusted family member you can rehash after the hearing to help you make sense of it all, plus questions you need to follow-up with your L.

The hardest part of being in court is that the judge seems to assume that if you have to be there, you and the other parent are two bickering imbeciles who can't smarten up and deal with your own issues. It's very patronizing. So you need to act like the grown-up and over time show the judge that you are focused on what is best for the kids.

That's honestly all they care about. Everything else is just straight up termination of a contract.

[ForeverDad]

When we first appeared in family court, my now-ex had just been released on OR from municipal court where she had a pending charge of Threat of DV.  She had to list the municipal court case number on her family court form seeking protection from me.  (Her tit for my tat.  I guess she figured if she couldn't have access to the house then she would trump me by blocking my access to our preschooler.)  The difference was that in family court she could try to include our preschooler in her 'protection' umbrella.

So far as I could tell, the magistrate didn't blink an eye or even ask about the pending case.  He listened to her complaints and then said he wasn't going to include our son in her 'protection'.  Regarding a parenting schedule, the magistrate had one question, our work schedules.  I said I worked a regular 5 day week.  She said she "worked from home".  No one mentioned that she wasn't allowed near our home, I had a protection order.  Maybe he read the form, maybe he didn't, maybe he didn't care about adult vs adult issues or presumed they wouldn't impact our parenting?  We had him off and on from late 2005 to 2010 or early 2011.  He was mostly a bump on a log, very quiet and laid back, not a proactive problem solver, my lawyer said he was waiting it out until his retirement.  Whatever his perspective, mother got temp custody and majority time once he heard her claim she had a more flexible schedule for parenting.  I, the male, the one with temp protection from her, got alternate weekends and a 3 hour evening in between.

So understand well that adult behaviors may have an impact on the case, but not as much as the parenting behaviors.  Yes, mention it all as much as they will allow but focus and give priority first to the parenting behaviors and the impact on the children.

[formflier]

 

Moselle,

Hey... .following you over here too! 

Hang in there man.

I went to SS.  They can only do what the law allows... .so talk this through with a lawyer first.

In my case they required us to go to counseling... .but since there were no marks on kids from beating... .by law... .it was an ok form of corporal punishment.

Law could be very different in your state... .

Sounds like your lawyer is on it... .

Hang in there!