Police Harassment Charge

[Restored2]

enlightenme: I have only had contact via telephone with the police constable, but the police station did confirm the complaint.  Whether it is an "official complaint" or one processed through her police friend is another story.  They did want me to come into the station.

[ForeverDad]

One problem we have to deal with is that the other person is disordered and in our cases doesn't care about the Truth, only his or her own perceptions.  So he or she can be very emotionally compelling in the claims and allegations even when it is all unsubstantiated and even outright false.

At typical outcome when facing false allegations is that they are found to be "unsubstantiated" and dismissed.  Seldom do we hear a ruling where they are called "false" or even "unfounded".  Courts are reluctant to call someone out.  I've been in and out of family court since late 2005.  After numerous allegations that were all heard and then set aside by the court and children's agency, I finally got a couple 'wins', if you can call them that.  In late 2007 I asked CPS for a written report on then-stbEx's latest allegation and it listed the closed case as "unsubstantiated".  In 2010 I had a Change of Circumstances case when I was seeking custody and the magistrate's decision noted, of all things, that my ex's testimony was "not credible" when she said she blocked my vacation notice during Winter Break because she wanted to 'observe' Kwanzaa even though she wasn't of 'Jewish descent.'  Yes, she was clueless that Kwanzaa had no connection with Jewish celebrations, just used it as an excuse to block my vacation with our son but she was only called "not credible".  That's how hard it is to get court to state something that is plain as day.

In the US you have a right to remain silent and a right not to incriminate yourself.  I don't know the laws of other countries, of course.  But I do know that my lawyer told me his first order of business was to sit on his clients to keep them from talking and getting themselves into even more trouble.  You see, us Nice Guys and Nice Gals have a habit that if we tell the whole truth then everything will work out just hunky dory.  But the legal system doesn't reward honesty, it uses it against you if it can.  For example you may say, "Yes but... ." or "No but... ." expecting the subsequent explanation to be considered fairly.  However, all they may pay attention to is the "Yes" or "No" and ignore the additional details.

In cases where the answer may sound bad your lawyer may ask that you remain silent, or give some other appropriate response such as "I don't recall", "I don't remember", etc.

In summary, never say anything that admits any level of guilt.  "If in doubt, leave it out!" - or ask your experienced lawyer.  (Yes, even something as simple and polite as "I'm sorry" can potentially be twisted or construed to be an admission of guilt.)  And don't sign any plea deals where you admit any level of guilt, at least not without your experienced lawyer's full approval.

[Restored2]

ForeverDad: Thank you for sharing your personal experiences and insights in detail.  Your wisdom has come at the cost of much pain.  Sounds like you should either write a book or star in the movie version of this.  Your experiences pretty much confirms my lack of faith in the judicial court system, which is often far from justice oriented.  You're bang on about us nice guys and gals having a habit to believe "that if we tell the whole truth than everything will work out hunky dory".  Your sobering message makes me think that it would be best to avoid going to court, even as a complainant against my ex-girlfriend.

[Restored2]

In the aftermath of the rubble, I am wondering if she will ever regret mistreating me with calling the police on me.  Any thoughts/perspectives?

[drummerboy]

A pwBPD regrets? Lol, don't be silly, that would require them admitting that they were wrong. Other people only exist for a BPD so they have someone to blame. They are the ultimate victims, everything is someone else's fault.

In the aftermath of the rubble, I am wondering if she will ever regret mistreating me with calling the police on me.  Any thoughts/perspectives?

[livednlearned]

Your sobering message makes me think that it would be best to avoid going to court, even as a complainant against my ex-girlfriend.

You go to court to make sure no further damage can be done, to defend a false allegation. Trying to use court to get even, or get justice, or punish her, or pay her back -- it won't work. It just won't.

The only way you would even come remotely close to having this be worth your while is if there was a pattern of false allegations.

[Turkish]

In the aftermath of the rubble, I am wondering if she will ever regret mistreating me with calling the police on me.  Any thoughts/perspectives?

Could be. The question is, will it matter? have a friend whose likely BPD gf (he even told me later that she was a cutter, and stories of sexual abuse) called the cops for DV when she was one one assaulting him. He spent a weekend in jail. The DA reduced or dropped the charge because she recanted.  He took her on vacation a few months later. After a week of love, she defamed him as an abuser publicly.  After that mess blew over (recycle #2), he got back together with her. Now she's pregnant. I tried counseling him, even refering him here. Didn't work. The last time I saw him by chance in the grocery store parking lot, he asked me, "so how do you handle the mood swings of a pregnant mother?" I shook my head, chatted for a bit and bid him farewell.

Protect yourself, you're the only one who can advocate for you.

[SlyQQ]

it must have been hard not to respond a condomn but i am sure it would have been unapreciated

[Restored2]

slyQQ: Your quote; "it must have been hard not to respond a condomn

but i am sure it would have been unapreciated".  I am not sure where you are coming from.  What do you mean?

Turkish: WOW... .Your friend really went from the fire to the kiln with his girl.  It's very unfortunate that he was not open to you and this bpdfamily for help.  He sounds like he needs all of the help that he can get.  Thanks for your words of caution.

livenlearned: I can see where you are coming from.  Despite how she is mistreating me, I do not want to cause her any harm.  I only want to protect myself through it.  There is no pattern of false allegations from her at all, as this is the very first encounter I have experienced on these terms.  Do you know of any way that I could put something on my police file as a defense?

drummerboy: Surely something as extreme as calling the police to make allegations of harassment against me must at some point register on the regret meter.

[SlyQQ]

it was in reference to how to avoid the mood swings of a pregnent women I hope things work out for you staying cool an not doing anything silly counts for a lot

[Restored2]

slyQQ: Thanks for clarifying.  I am trying to stay cool and avoid "doing anything silly".  Basically I'm just hanging low for the dust to settle.

[livednlearned]

Do you know of any way that I could put something on my police file as a defense?

It's still not clear if this is a formal complaint in which you are expected to defend yourself in court -- you're in a different country with different laws than mine, so I don't understand the legal status of where you're at.

But when my ex had a psychotic episode and seemed to come unhinged, I opened a file with the police. That's all I did. I just opened it, and said I had cause to be concerned. My boss moved me to a different office with no name plaque, away from a main corridor and they tightened up some security measures in my building. It was just a precaution, so that if something happened, and they looked up to see if N/BPDx was in the system, they could see that he was a topic of concern.

It doesn't give me any legal protection, it just helps police connect the dots a bit faster if they need to.

I didn't file a PO against him -- it was a long, protracted debate I had with myself. Because with some people, filing a PO triggers opposite behavior to what the PO is intended to do. I am pretty sure that it would have escalated the conflict without providing me much more in the way of protection.

Just saying this because the goal is to minimize conflict and restore some peace to your life. I know you aren't trying to harm her, but it is possible to make things worse when we try to make things better.

I was reading through that link I shared from before, and one thing that struck me is how the police treat stalking suspects -- it could be that the female cop was treating you that way to scare you from stalking/harassment. It might be a tactic. It said something about having the suspect come to the station as a deterrent from doing more stalking. Since you aren't a real stalking suspect, it instead felt incredibly rude and over the top.

What you want to make sure is that there is no formal charge, and whether this will ever show up if an employer does a background check. If it does, then get a lawyer to have it sorted out.

[ForeverDad]

In the aftermath of the rubble, I am wondering if she will ever regret mistreating me with calling the police on me.  Any thoughts/perspectives?

A pwBPD regrets? Lol, don't be silly, that would require them admitting that they were wrong. Other people only exist for a BPD so they have someone to blame. They are the ultimate victims, everything is someone else's fault.

One of the typical perspectives of a pwBPD is that, in one way or another, it is all about self.  Their perceptions influence their moods and how they feel.  How I feel, how I hurt, how I will make you hurt for me feeling hurt, etc.  Subjective perspective, not an Objective "how everyone else views it" perspective.

So you can't expect a person with distorted perceptions and motivations to react or respond in a way you would respond.  In other words, expecting reciprocity -- her treating you how you would treat her -- is self-sabotaging.

As for the urgent encouragement to seek qualified and experienced Legal Advice and associated priorities, options and strategies, do it.  Making common sense assumptions could be directly opposite the way court works.  It is a product of decades and centuries of law, case law, policies, procedures, etc.  While there are reasons the system is the way it is and does what it does, it is NOT everyday common sense, it is almost a world unto itself.

To "ASSUME" is risky... .the old truism, you may end up making an ASS of U and ME.

[Restored2]

ForeverDad: Thank you for your insights and urgent encouragement.  I think I get it.  Basically, feelings = facts.  I admit, I have expected reciprocity with her treating me the way that I would treat her, which has been a HUGE mistake.  It's a real challenge to distort my thinking the way that she could/does.  You sum up the legal court system very well.  It is a scary playground to which I never want to enter.  Assuming is risky indeed!

livenlearned: Thank you for sharing your personal story, insights and words of wisdom.  It helps to put in better perspective. 

This is currently not a formal charge in which I am expected to defend myself in court at this time.  It is a serious threat of a pending criminal charge though.  An investigation may still be in process.  The harassment complaint appears to have placed me in the police system, which I sure hope does not negatively affect me with any criminal record checks.

I definitely want to minimize conflict and restore peace to my life.  I agree, we can make things worse when our try to make things better.  You may be on to something with the female police constable using tactics as a deterrent. 

[Waddams]

Regarding an ongoing investigation, it may be that when they are done with their investigations they decide that this much ado about nothing.  She made a complaint, they are investigating because if they don't and there's a serious issue and she were to end up dead, the police would be in deep do-do for not doing their jobs properly.  However, somewhere along the line, as they get more facts, hopefully it will become clear that she has made this thing up and distorted the facts.  At that point, the police and/or the local DA will decide there's not enough to justify an arrest or not enough to get a conviction, and they'll drop it.

At that point, I'd ask for a copy of all documentation related to the investigation to keep for my own records.  If it doesn't include various things such as your own supportive witness statements, I'd go back and ask them to add those to the file.  Then I'd tell them I'm turning over a copy to my L and intend to make sure if there are any other falsified accusations brought up in the future that this instance is not forgotten, nor is their readiness to try to crucify me.

[Restored2]

Waddams: Thank you for your insightful words of wisdom.  You present some very thought provoking perspectives.  I do hope the verdict to be "much ado about nothing".  I see it as being the police covering themselves from being in deep do-do if things were to go violent, which would not happen from me.  My concern is that this police complaint may never officially drop.  In other words, this police file just continues to stay open for more false allegations to be added against me until I am crucified.  I have not provided a witness statement of my own to the police, as directed by lawyers.  

Am I able to request "a copy of all documentation related to the investigation to keep for my own records"?  

[swimjim]

What kind of advice are you looking for? This is not a BPD thing. This is now a legal matter. Please, protect yourself. Do not contact your ex or anyone in her family. I'm glad you've talked to a lawyer. Do not talk to the police again without a lawyer present. Remember, anything you say can and will be used against you. Harassment charges can turn into assault or even sexual assault charges. Sorry, don't mean to scare you. Too familiar with false allegations.

I am so sorry you are going thru this.

In all due respect Jessica84, although it has become a legal issue, I disagree that it is not a BPD thing. These  boards are littered with BPD's filing false police reports and false restraining orders. Their distortion / smear campaigns are believable by the average person because they themselves can become delusional which makes the whole situation dangerous.

[ForeverDad]

I recall in the early months of my separation, I went to a counselor for a few times and she said, ":)on't worry, if you didn't do anything wrong then you have nothing to worry about, you won't go to jail."  She was nice and I probably was too polite to respond but I know I thought to myself, "You wanna bet?  My spouse can be so emotionally convincing!"  For months I'd sometimes wake up in the early morning hours, mind racing, unable to sleep for a couple hours, fearful that it would be that night the police came for me. :'(

[Restored2]

ForeverDad: Your counsellors advice on the matter comes across as quite naive and trusting of a legal court system that is far from being trustworthy and justice oriented.  I have had many hours of lost sleep with mind racing as a result of this.  It has been post trauma stress disorder (PTSD) for me on so many levels.  Were you falsely accused of something too?

swimjim: I wasn't sure where Jessica84 was coming from on this either, as it is definitely the behavioral trait of "a BPD thing".  The delusional mix is a dangerous cocktail to swallow.

[drummerboy]

The moral of this story is that once the r/s is over have NOTHING to do with your ex pwBPD. No texts, emails, phone calls, stalking. Do not contact her in any way and same goes for mutual friends. Post nothing on social media about them either. Do not give them ANY reason to twist anything around so that you might end up in court. These people are sick and can be VERY dangerous.

The irony is that mine got a restraining order against me, she is the last person on the planet I would want to have any contact with!

I really pity those of you that have kids with them and where you must keep some level of contact going.

[swimjim]

I went through the same experience. It was traumatizing. Why would she hurt me like this? It never makes sense but I get stuck ruminating about it and wonder if I could have avoided being painted black in this manner.

[Restored2]

swimjim: It is an extremely traumatizing experience to be put through.  It's hard to believe how someone could hurt one they professed love to in this manner.  I too go through the what-ifs of how I could have avoided being painted black to be accused of a criminal charge involving the police.  This is beyond extreme!

drummerboy: It is a sick game of chess they play.

[swimjim]

When My false restraining order was thrown out in court, she cried. I did not know if she was faking it or was delusional and actually FEARED ME. This is the same woman who hoisted me up high on the pedistal and claimed she loved me more than she has ever loved before. She begged me to marry her. I was flattered but thought something was a little off about her. She appeared desperate to marry me, almost like hurry up before you find out about the real me. I still try to make sense of her calling the police.  I feel like a changed person since all this went down. She has already onto a second replacement since me. Although I was vindicated in court, I never felt like I  won. I still lost her forever. There is no going back. But she moves on like nothing happened.

[Restored2]

swimjim: She very likely wanted to put the marriage contract on the table for you to sign before you had a chance to find out what you were really signing up for.  I don't understand what the whole police deal is all about either.  Maybe it's their way of being able to confirm in their skewed thinking and warped realities that they are a victim needing to protect themselves from us, which is a blacker level to villainize us by.

[swimjim]

I think it is a warped kind of projection when getting law enforcement involved. Don't try to make sense of it. It is a disorder. They don't think like us. Save your texts and emails. You may need them to defend yourself in court. Most of us never knew about BPD until we searched the internet because our partners behavior didn't make sense.

[swimjim]

Restored2, I sent you a private message. It is encouraging to know that we are not alone in our suffering. Thank God for this forum or else I would feel all alone in My pain. It helps to know that there is absolutely no avoiding getting split black. When I start thinking I should have given her the ring when she wanted it, I would have been painted black while married to her. When I realize this, I stop the woulda, coulda,shoulda ruminating. Save your texts and emails. You may need them for court to defend yourself.

[Warney]

swim jim you are not alone in this

I have also had the following so now i cant contact her or get anyone to contact her. Its actually ok in a way as it is giving me time to find places like this to meet common people.

To me she may have told so many the lie she now believes this to be the truth.

[Restored2]

swimjim: Yeah, it very well could be a warped kind of projection involving law enforcement against us.  You're right about not knowing anything about BPD, as it wasn't until I searched the internet under previously abused women and up came BPD.  Unfortunately, this was after the fact of her breaking up with me.  Really wished I had of known about this disorder while I was in the relationship or better yet before I even stepped foot into the relationship to begin with.  Thanks for your advice on saving my texts and emails as evidence.

I received your private message and responded back to you earlier.  Did you not receive it?  It is very encouraging to know that we are not alone in our suffering and that we are not the crazy ones.  I am very thankful to God for this discussion forum and website with information.  It has been a life saver on so many levels.  I guess I don't understand how there is no avoiding being split black.  How is this possible?

[swimjim]

Apparently when they idealize us as all good and "perfect" in their eyes in the beginning of the relationship, it is a fantasy when mirroring us and we buy into it. In reality, nobody can maintain perfection so we "let them down" by being human. With their black and white thinking, there is no gray and we start getting devalued and eventually they drop us on our head. We bought into the fantasy and it was intoxicating. We initially feel like we failed and beat ourselves up with guilt and shame because we could not maintain perfection in their eyes. I thought I was invincible to her. The love bombs and great sex became addictive. I was the perfect target because of my codependency. One of the worst ways to get split black is when they involve the police and false allegations. No matter what we say to them to try to convince them that we are still the good person they fell in love with, they see us as evil. We are forced into no contact which is the only real blessing in disguise. 

[Restored2]

swimjim: Unfortunately, I know all too well about beating my self up with guilt and shame over her.  Just like you, I thought I was invincible to her too and I am also a rescuer.  The question is... .how long can we remain split black until being returned to white?