Please help I am not quite sure how I can justify this one.

[Shottsy85]

I have been and want to still be committed to my boyfriend of eight years who has BPD.

Basically can people with BPD completely not remember doing something, or flirt with someone or be inappropriate and not remember? Or is he just blatantly just lying? He HAS been known to lie by omission has he has argued and argued that not actually "telling a lie" is not the same thing as lying, but Usually if he does something and I bust him or ask him, he will tell me the truth.  My boyfriend as far as I know has always been loyal and would never cheat on me. But he can also be what my mom calls a chameleon and she believed he was capable of this kind of behavior all along.

We were all in the process of moving and were going to be moving with my best friend who is also female. Out of no where, yesterday, two weeks before our move in date, she tells us that she doesn't think it will work out. My boyfriend and I were devastated and upset, had a meeting with her where we all tried to say our piece and discuss how it could work or why that is just really ___ty, and are now not sure what we will do. After our discussion together, later on I tried to talk her again after she had more time to think about moving with us, and couldn't understand why she wouldn't. She then shows me a bunch of texts from my boyfriend to her offering to "relieve" her giving her inappropriate advances. Blatant come ons and telling her to let him know if she wanted it next time they can be alone. Even grabbing her butt and then texting her about it, and she didn't want to tell me, but she is my best friend and told me the truth that he has been being inappropriate with her even though she has told him so.

I confronted him telling him that my friend has told me the real reason she is declining to move in with us. And he seemed so bewildered and confused. I confronted him and told him to tell me the truth, and that I just wanted to hear it from him. He asked what he did. I told him to tell me, and I had "written proof" of what he did. He continued to play innocent. Then I brought the texts TO him from her phone showing texts FROM him to her of his inappropriate advances. It is much more serious and not just flirting. He still played dumb and acted like he didn't remember sending those. I told him I didn't believe him, but if that is true then he needs to talk to his doctor IMMEDIATELY and figure it out, or I have no choice but to not stay with him, as I can no longer trust him, and won't tolerate infidelity. I can and HAVE tolerated a lot. He agreed to call... he also told me he loved me, and that he DOES want this relationship. I just don't know what to do...

A mutual friend of ours that he calls often to vent to and talk and even tells secrets to, says that seems out of left field, that when he talks to her he talks about how great things have been between us lately. He was super romantic for valentine's day and has been making a lot more effort to do things for me. We have been enjoying each other's company and then I find out he has been going behind my back apparently all the way since October sending texts to my best friend, who is really a great friend that she has told him to stop and now is being honest with me. He has now sabotaged us all moving together two weeks before the move in date, and I don't know where we will go or what we will do. I feel so hurt, confused, ill, and like maybe I don't even really know him at all.

My mom thinks I should leave him. I am upset because I am trying to keep a clear head, and I KNOW he has a disorder, but I just don't see a way out of this one. If there is any way to work through this, or make things work I want to... I am just not sure if there is any hope if this is what he is really doing. I really need some advice and support BAD.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

Basically can people with BPD completely not remember doing something, or flirt with someone or be inappropriate and not remember? Or is he just blatantly just lying?

Absolutely, they can forget doing something. At least that is the claim. My husband and I used to go round and round about stuff. He would deny something like crazy. He might back down under the guise of, "I don't remember doing that." I think some of it could be a bit of denial. They know they are doing something wrong and don't want to admit to it because they are ashamed of themselves.

He HAS been known to lie by omission has he has argued and argued that not actually "telling a lie" is not the same thing as lying, but Usually if he does something and I bust him or ask him, he will tell me the truth.  My boyfriend as far as I know has always been loyal and would never cheat on me. But he can also be what my mom calls a chameleon and she believed he was capable of this kind of behavior all along.

Never say never. The way you describe the stuff with your friend, it sounds like he hasn't been loyal and he would have cheated if given the chance.

A mutual friend of ours that he calls often to vent to and talk and even tells secrets to, says that seems out of left field, that when he talks to her he talks about how great things have been between us lately.

It is common for them to be one way with one person and another way with somebody else. Like your mom said, kind of like a chameleon.

We have been enjoying each other's company and then I find out he has been going behind my back apparently all the way since October sending texts to my best friend, who is really a great friend that she has told him to stop and now is being honest with me.

Don't put this all on him. If she is such a great friend, why didn't she tell you back in October? Is there more to the story that neither of them is telling you. That may or may not be the case but it is something to think about and be mentally prepared for just in case. There have been things that have happened between me and my husband over the years that I never ever would have believed. I consider my husband to be an honest person for the most part so it has been pretty devastating when I have found that he has lied to me or deceived me. The nature of BPD is to be unpredictable. 

I feel so hurt, confused, ill, and like maybe I don't even really know him at all.

Those are all very normal feelings! You discovered that your partner was coming on to your best friend. That has to hurt like crazy and feel like a great big kick in the gut. My husband is a sex addict and has done some things that I will never ever understand. You are not alone and are having a very normal reaction to an abnormal situation.

My mom thinks I should leave him. I am upset because I am trying to keep a clear head, and I KNOW he has a disorder, but I just don't see a way out of this one. If there is any way to work through this, or make things work I want to... I am just not sure if there is any hope if this is what he is really doing. I really need some advice and support BAD.

If you want to work through this, read, read, read. Try to understand the disorder. Try to get a grip on what it is that you will or won't accept. Look at the lessons. There are a lot of valuable resources there. Does your partner admit that he has any kind of problem? My husband's awareness levels have come and gone. Is there a possibility of counseling or anything like that?

[waverider]

Putting the long term aside for a moment, what type of immediate boundary action are you putting in place as a consequence of this action. If you do nothing but get upset he will not see it as a boundary. In fact he will blame you about making a drama over nothing.

In his eyes any interaction he has with others is his business and nothing to do with you.

It is unlikely you will get the absolute truth. I also wonder how long this has gone on so long. Why did your friend not disengage?

[Shottsy85]

I spoke to him and laid down the boundary. I took his phone and went through his texts to her with them and he AGREED they sounded very bad and inappropriate but he still claims to not remember doing it. I told him what confuses me is that things have been seeming really good between us lately and I have even been being more intimate (as I used to have a problem being not that sexually active) and he agreed and said things have been great and he doesn't understand why he would do that either and he is sorry and loves me. I told him I love him too but I can't live like this and that he needs help. He seemed receptive And agreed to call his doctor. I told him he can't keep putting things off and needs to get into treatment or some sort of structure or I have to save my sanity and leave. He doesn't want to call off work as he was just hired on full time, but he said he would call as soon as he was off. He agreed with what I said that this mess with us moving is on him and he took responsibility. I see your point about my friend but I saw both sides of the texts and she wasn't encouraging it at all. However, she told me she was scared to tell me and didn't want to break us up. She only told me so I knew the truth of why she wasn't moving in. I'm so upset as now everything is a mess and we can't afford this house without Her. At first my BF wanted her to just leave right away if she wasn't going to move with us, but I at least shot him down when I made the point that this was his doing and I'm not going to do that to her. In just so upset and feel so betrayed and shocked at his behavior. I don't know how we can come back from this

[waverider]

I spoke to him and laid down the boundary.

Define your boundary.

What is your action if he crosses it.

Not wishing to labor it, but it needs to be clear and unmistakable, otherwise it will be open to negotiation.

Beware of not mixing boundaries up with requests or demands.

[Shottsy85]

I spoke to him and laid down the boundary.

Define your boundary.

What is your action if he crosses it.

Not wishing to labor it, but it needs to be clear and unmistakable, otherwise it will be open to negotiation.

Beware of not mixing boundaries up with requests or demands.

I told him that my boundary is I won't stand for any form of infidelity and the only way I wont walk away from our relationship, even though everyone is telling me Id be crazy not to... , is if he calls his doctor immediately and finds a DBT group and gets himself into some sort of treatment. He is seeing a T but I had no idea this was going on and I doubt he told his T about it. He said he understood and seemed to be willing to respect that last night. I believe this is a clear boundary but I'm open to any other suggestions because I want to be as clear as possible. I still love this man and am extremely loyal, I just don't know where to go from here and if it's realistic to think we can or even should get through this.

[Notwendy]

One aspect of knowing your boundary is to be absolutely certain of your boundaries regardless of what someone else does.

You don't have to justify your boundary. It is not about what he does- it is about what you feel is important. Sometimes a mismatch of boundaries is a deal breaker for a relationship. People can have different boundaries as they are personal.

A person might feel it is important to have a spouse who is the same religion. If that person were married to someone who did not share religion, they may not be happy together. Other people may not have that boundary at all. I'm sure there are people who could make a case for this either way, but that doesn't matter to the person who feels strongly about the boundary.

A boundary helps you make choices. You might care about a friend, but if that person robbed your house- would that be OK? Would you still invite that friend over?

You love your bf, but now you have evidence that he propositioned your friend. You are looking at him for direction- is he sorry? Will he go to treatment. Your boundary is based on his behavior " I will stay with you IF you go to the doctor". That is one boundary, but you can't control what he does, only what you will do. What if he doesn't go? What if it doesn't work?

Another boundary might be based on yourself. " I choose to be in a relationship that is monogamous" . These are the conditions for which I can be in a relationship with you: that we are in counseling, that you are accountable for your actions, that you have evidence that you are in treatment- a doctors note or something. Or you can also decide that the betrayal has crossed a boundary to the extent that you do not wish to continue the relationship. You may not know the answers at the moment that you are in distress. Counseling for you might help you figure out what you wish to do.

[MaroonLiquid]

Depending on how bad they split and dissociate, I definitely think they don't "remember".  I believe it is in the deep recesses of their mind still.  Several years ago, my wife told me that when she dysregulates (gets mad she called it), she said it was like she was outside of her body saying, "Stop!  Stop doing that!  Stop!" and she couldn't.  There have been times where my wife and I have conversations before she dysregulates and then when she "comes back" (sometimes weeks later), she will tell them to me as if it is the first time.  I do two things.  Either I ask about it if it is important, or if she starts talking about it, I will say, "Yeah, I remember you talking about that.  How is that going?"

[Notwendy]

Do you think he was dysregulated when he sent the texts to your friend?

I think they forget what they say in a dysregulated rage, but that they don't want to own up to mistakes due to the feelings of shame they get.

There was an incidence where I felt betrayed in my marriage. However, I had to consider the fact that we had children and were married at this point. My H spent a large sum of money on some items that he wanted and did not tell me. I found out when I noticed the money missing from the bank. He refused to discuss this or own up to it, claiming he forgot or deserved it or whatever, but basically not acknowleging that it was a breach of trust. That was the worst part of it. I didn't expect him to ask permission about things that he needed, but I would not have considered doing something on this scale without a discussion at least, with my partner.

This broke a boundary for me, but I considered it in context of the marriage and the children. My only choice was to live with it, or leave. He would not budge. I chose to stay- because I felt it was the best decision for all of us. He came around much later to the idea of how this broke trust. However, regaining trust has been difficult.

I know couples who have reconcilled infidelity, and I think it is building trust that is the challenge. For this to happen, I think both partners have shown accountability, self examination, and a comitment to honesty. There is information about how couples do this, and usually a good counselor can help.

[Michelle27]

Depending on how bad they split and dissociate, I definitely think they don't "remember".  I believe it is in the deep recesses of their mind still.  Several years ago, my wife told me that when she dysregulates (gets mad she called it), she said it was like she was outside of her body saying, "Stop!  Stop doing that!  Stop!" and she couldn't.  There have been times where my wife and I have conversations before she dysregulates and then when she "comes back" (sometimes weeks later), she will tell them to me as if it is the first time.  I do two things.  Either I ask about it if it is important, or if she starts talking about it, I will say, "Yeah, I remember you talking about that.  How is that going?"

My husband describes the rages in 2 ways.  In the middle of it, he says it's like he's on a runaway freight train and can't stop.  One time, he begged to be taken to the hospital because he felt so out of control.  I couldn't have driven him at the time because I had had a couple drinks, and I know now that what I should have done was called an ambulance.  The next morning I took him to the hospital and he was admitted.

He also describes the onset of a rage as he's holding back a boulder and can't see when that boulder slips and he is no longer able to hold the emotions back.  I have put a boundary in place after years of these dysregulations that due to my own PTSD like reactions when I see it building, I need him to leave the house until he is able to be in control.  He claims to respect the boundary but I have yet to see him do it so time will tell.  We have a friend who has given him a housekey so he always has a place to go if needed.  For me, it's a need to have my home be an emotionally safe place to be after so long of walking on eggshells.

So, I do believe that they can "not remember" when they are filled with shame.  My husband has also described the cycle... .he would get angry, do or say something stupid in his rage, then feel even more anger and shame over what happened.  Then he'd want to just forget it and move on but in the back of his mind that shame festered and grew and of course, led to another rage.

[ColdEthyl]

Michelle my H describes it the very same way. He says he feels like he has 1,000 thoughts running through his head and he can't stop it. In dysregulation, he will say things like "My feelings are my reality!" "No one can tell me how to feel!" and later he's slowly starting to acknowledge that he knows this isn't right... .but he cannot stop it.

He often rewrites history. I believe he convinces himself that what he is saying is true... .he needs his 'reality' to fit his emotions. I would not be surprised if part of them could "forget" things

[Shottsy85]

Depending on how bad they split and dissociate, I definitely think they don't "remember".  I believe it is in the deep recesses of their mind still.  Several years ago, my wife told me that when she dysregulates (gets mad she called it), she said it was like she was outside of her body saying, "Stop!  Stop doing that!  Stop!" and she couldn't.  There have been times where my wife and I have conversations before she dysregulates and then when she "comes back" (sometimes weeks later), she will tell them to me as if it is the first time.  I do two things.  Either I ask about it if it is important, or if she starts talking about it, I will say, "Yeah, I remember you talking about that.  How is that going?"

My husband describes the rages in 2 ways.  In the middle of it, he says it's like he's on a runaway freight train and can't stop.  One time, he begged to be taken to the hospital because he felt so out of control.  I couldn't have driven him at the time because I had had a couple drinks, and I know now that what I should have done was called an ambulance.  The next morning I took him to the hospital and he was admitted.

He also describes the onset of a rage as he's holding back a boulder and can't see when that boulder slips and he is no longer able to hold the emotions back.  I have put a boundary in place after years of these dysregulations that due to my own PTSD like reactions when I see it building, I need him to leave the house until he is able to be in control.  He claims to respect the boundary but I have yet to see him do it so time will tell.  We have a friend who has given him a housekey so he always has a place to go if needed.  For me, it's a need to have my home be an emotionally safe place to be after so long of walking on eggshells.

So, I do believe that they can "not remember" when they are filled with shame.  My husband has also described the cycle... .he would get angry, do or say something stupid in his rage, then feel even more anger and shame over what happened.  Then he'd want to just forget it and move on but in the back of his mind that shame festered and grew and of course, led to another rage.

This makes a lot of sense... I am still feeling torn on what to do. Everyone is telling me I am crazy for staying and asking me why I would. I want things to be ok. I don't trust him and now don't know where we are going to live. I called my boyfriends' Best friend and just spoke with him, to see if maybe he would want to take my friend's place and live with us, as he knows my bf well has for years and knows his issues, and he basically said hell no and could no way live with him... So even his own friend can't deal with his disorder. My BFF was willing to and understood even his black and white thinking and was accepting that he may rage or throw tantrums and he has managed to sabotage the whole situation. He was so excited to finally have a garage to work on cars again, he has wanted one since we have been together, and now because of his inability to stay faithful and have boundaries he has managed to most likely ruin that if himself and me.

About what you said above about feeling like he couldn't stop, I also relate to that SOO much. My bf got in a rage once while driving MY car when a driver cut him off once, that he started swerving and cutting people off around the inside of streets to catch the guy, almost causing several accidents. I kept screaming for him to just stop and just let me out of the car. I didn't even care where I was at that point I just wanted out, but he wouldn't stop and put us both at risk. No matter how much I screamed and begged him he continued to pursue the other car and cause a lot of potential harm. When we got home I was sobbing and asked him why he couldn't have just stopped? He nastily threw my key at me and said, "whatever mom." like a pissed off teenager. Then he drove back out in his own car. Right then I called the hospital telling them about the incident and they put out a (whatever its called) to take him in. I was so terrified he would never forgive me for calling or would think I overreacted, but I felt i should text him so he could decide to come in willingly like they said. I texted him, and he told me he couldn't talk he was at his counselors office. Then he told me he was sorry and he just couldn't stop. He said he was telling himself in his brain to stop over and over, but he just couldn't. Then he said he thought he needed the hospital, and I said, "good they are already ready for you." When I told him how relieved I was and that I was ready for it to be over if that is what it took to insure that he and I were safe, he told me, " I only fight with you about stupid pointless things." So I was glad he was at least receptive.

However, when THAT incident happened he did great at the hospital and I told him things needed to be in place for when he was released so that wouldn't happen again. He agreed to seek out DBT. He at least got back on his meds and got a T, but now with this newest transgression in my mind time is up. He needs to get into treatment, but I am afraid he will agree just to stop me from leaving and then this will just happen again.