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Author Topic: Do they ever have regrets?  (Read 5657 times)
anxiety5
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« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 10:16:21 PM »

Mine often asked me " do you think "his ex wife" would ever sit there and think "wow I lost a good man and i regret it"? I told him no. She is not only A self involved horrible person who takes no personal responsibility but she is also seriously stupid. (She really is on all counts.)  Now I sit here wondering if he will ever think those things about me.   Weird how things come full circle.

They may have regrets but it's not in the same capacity that we feel this emotion. We are objects. We are washing machines. When we are first brought home we are new. We are a mystery. Then they figure out which buttons to press to make us work for them. When we work for them properly they walk away as we churn. They come back every so often and take the things we offer them, and then walk away again. When we break, we are useless. We are no longer helping them. They try to press a different set of buttons to make us go back online but when we refuse they put us out by the road and walk away. You wouldn't stop before going back inside and say "Hey washer, I know you did your best. You helped me with so many loads of laundry. You always kept me looking good for work or for whatever social functions I had to go to. I know you tried hard and I wish you the best." No, you toss the broken "useless" worthless piece of crap outside and wash your hands of it. From your perspective there is no debt you feel that it did a million loads of laundry, all you can think of is how you are inconvenienced now that it's broken and how much you wish you wouldn't have invested so much when you first bought it. So you go to the store and buy another one and never look back one time or wonder what scrap yard it ended up in.

Why? Because it's an object. And that is exactly what we are to them. Is it any wonder the relationship goes exactly in this manor?

So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand.
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« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 10:41:31 PM »

anxiety5: Very well expressed word picture you write of what this BPD is all about involving us as mere objects... .or washing machines.  Thank you for sharing.
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rlhmm
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« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 10:47:28 PM »

Mine often asked me " do you think "his ex wife" would ever sit there and think "wow I lost a good man and i regret it"? I told him no. She is not only A self involved horrible person who takes no personal responsibility but she is also seriously stupid. (She really is on all counts.)  Now I sit here wondering if he will ever think those things about me.   Weird how things come full circle.

They may have regrets but it's not in the same capacity that we feel this emotion. We are objects. We are washing machines. When we are first brought home we are new. We are a mystery. Then they figure out which buttons to press to make us work for them. When we work for them properly they walk away as we churn. They come back every so often and take the things we offer them, and then walk away again. When we break, we are useless. We are no longer helping them. They try to press a different set of buttons to make us go back online but when we refuse they put us out by the road and walk away. You wouldn't stop before going back inside and say "Hey washer, I know you did your best. You helped me with so many loads of laundry. You always kept me looking good for work or for whatever social functions I had to go to. I know you tried hard and I wish you the best." No, you toss the broken "useless" worthless piece of crap outside and wash your hands of it. From your perspective there is no debt you feel that it did a million loads of laundry, all you can think of is how you are inconvenienced now that it's broken and how much you wish you wouldn't have invested so much when you first bought it. So you go to the store and buy another one and never look back one time or wonder what scrap yard it ended up in.

Why? Because it's an object. And that is exactly what we are to them. Is it any wonder the relationship goes exactly in this manor?

So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand.

  great analogy. nuff said!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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paperlung
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« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2015, 11:24:02 PM »

paperlung: Based on what you have presented you sound better off without her as a toxic load in your life.  She needs healing before she could ever contribute to being a healthy partner in a healthy relationship.

I know, which is why I haven't talked to her since the 15th. I'm not sticking around to be her confidant. It just stresses me out and brings me anxiety.

She hasn't been a healthy partner to anybody before or after me. I thought her healing was about to begin once she wrote me that very self-aware text message at the beginning of February. I should have known better than to believe her.
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« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2015, 11:27:16 PM »

paperlung: You sound like you are on the right track to freedom now.
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LifeIsBeautiful
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« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2015, 12:02:13 AM »

From my own experience, yes they will and say they regretted it, not all the time but sometimes. The tears will flow, apologies and promises to not do it again etc. Unfortunately if doesn't last. I've had a 360 face turn, after an episode in the night, immediately the next morning. I've given up trying to rationalize or sympathize. It's the way it is, they get something out of it. When a person is feeling so low and empty, anger and hate is still an acceptable form of expression and way to get attention, whether good or bad.
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« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2015, 02:48:40 AM »

Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine, so that she did not have to have a lapse in her ability to put her clothes thru the wringer.,(anything but a lapse!... then she would be by herself. Never.). Once she had thuroughly tested out the new model she had it delivered and had the guys put the old model out on the curb. I can see her extending her arms and swiping her hands together as if to say "I've cleaned myself of that old model. Good riddance!"

 :'(
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rlhmm
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« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2015, 06:53:35 AM »

Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine, so that she did not have to have a lapse in her ability to put her clothes thru the wringer.,(anything but a lapse!... then she would be by herself. Never.). Once she had thuroughly tested out the new model she had it delivered and had the guys put the old model out on the curb. I can see her extending her arms and swiping her hands together as if to say "I've cleaned myself of that old model. Good riddance!"

 :'(

true infrared... .but at the same time, not to wear out the washer analogy, you could say as you were being carried to the curb, i'll never be "overloaded" or feel "out of balance" again! "free to good home"   Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 08:31:16 AM »

Turkish, my experience after 22years being married to a BPD wife has similarities to the story you shared. We have been living apart for over a year now and I am just waiting on the $ to get the divorce. She started an affair with a man about a year before she left. I dont expect an apology or any words of regret. After so many years of everything being my fault, it is not reasonable to expect her to take a look at herself.

    She has hoarding issues. The hoarding shows you see on tv is like a 10. She was at a 7. We have 3 kids - 2 minors. As soon as she left she began hoarding in her new house and I cleaned the one we had. For the first time in 22 years our house was picked up and clean. When the kids come over they say my BPD wife blames ME for the mess in her new house because I made sure to give her back her things.

    In my experience the BPD is the ultimate validation seeker. Her self worth is at stake in every social encounter. She is the victim. She may have regrets because she is suffering, but that suffering does not bring her an apology, rather it intensifies her own thoughts that she should have left me sooner.

    This also gives a strange understanding to a practice we had before Church. For more than 10 years we would apologize to each other and ask forgiveness of one another before Church. I began to realize what this meant for her: it was an opportunity to address all my failures to her while denying her own part to play in anything awry. So I started this forgiveness the night before- it would take all night with no progress. I finally came to terms with it: I would forgive her bc she asked forgiveness (WHATEVER that means to her) and I would ask her forgiveness bc i needed to and I needed her to know I was sorry for specific things. Normal conversation on forgiveness and relationship progression is impossible with a BPD. They have a mental illness and cant comprehend what the conversation is. They fundamentally cant grasp what "I am sorry" means. My BPD wife thinks it means that she is sorry that you suffered. Kind of like when your kid falls and hurts his knee and you tell him "I am sorry that happened to you." THAT is how she understands HER "I'm sorry." YOUR "I'm sorry" however means you accept full responsibility and blame for everything you have done by which she has suffered emotionally. And now she can remind you of what all those things were.

   I would not recommend waiting for an apology from a BPD.
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« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 09:30:37 AM »

My exBPDwife of 11 years still blames me for all the problems we had. I did not show her enough attention so she started an affair with my replacement 6 months before I filed for divorce. I did not make enough money is the reason her spending seemed excessive. It was my fault that she kicked in the bedroom door and assaulted me while I was sleeping.

EVERYTHING is my fault because I am such a horrible person.

She should be given a medal for putting up with me for so long.

I do not believe it is possible for her to accept responsibility for any of her actions or to express regret in the way a healthy person does.
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raisins3142
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« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2015, 09:58:42 PM »

From my own experience, yes they will and say they regretted it, not all the time but sometimes. The tears will flow, apologies and promises to not do it again etc. Unfortunately if doesn't last. I've had a 360 face turn, after an episode in the night, immediately the next morning. I've given up trying to rationalize or sympathize. It's the way it is, they get something out of it. When a person is feeling so low and empty, anger and hate is still an acceptable form of expression and way to get attention, whether good or bad.

My uBPDexgf, even if she wanted, could not consistently respect my boundaries or feelings.  The reason is that she is "not good at application questions", which she admitted even of her own schooling in her vocation.  When she did something to upset me, she might have added it to a list of things not to do, but did not understand the underlying commonality or what general class of things to avoid.  It is like someone tracking mud in your house, being told not to do that, but then wondering why you are upset the next day when they track in oil.  They do not understand the underlying idea of "don't put things on my carpet that will damage it".  So, mine has this list of things not to do, but she could not keep all these in her head or follow them.  She did not understand the thought process that had generated the list and so she had no predictive ability.
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downwhim
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« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2015, 01:57:28 AM »



"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.
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anxiety5
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« Reply #42 on: February 22, 2015, 01:57:43 PM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

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downwhim
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« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2015, 02:24:27 PM »

Yes, my hopes and dreams and plans for the future where puffed away by his selfish, egotistical, ways and his mental illness. There is no excuse for the terrible amount of pain he caused me. I remember one day he was screaming at me for no reason in the car. If I could have jumped out I would have yet I was the driver. After 20 minutes of a rage and me trying all I could to hold on to the wheel and drive correctly, I dropped him off at his house. He turned and said, "I will not say I am sorry." Yes, no regrets.

He took away (or I allowed him) my self confidence, my creativity, my sexuality, my positive attitude about life, my management of time, my friends, my children and my soul. It is my job to get all of this back little by little until I feel whole again. I lost the person I was. The smile that was sincere. Many days I feel like only a part of myself is here and the res,t he joyfully stomped on as he added me to the list of another one his accomplishments. Done, moved on, no regrets.
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Trog
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« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2015, 02:42:26 PM »

Well apparently so, my ex has told me recently that her life is empty without me and she wishes things could be how they were before... strange to have made no effort to contact me for months in that case and she ended the conversation telling me I deserved better. *charm* But never a truer word spoken.

Pffft, I don't believe they do regret it no, regret the loss of supply perhaps.
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Heldfast
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« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2015, 03:51:37 PM »

Trog, why not put it to the test? Actions,not words.

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"Chaos is not a pit. Chaos is a ladder." - Lord Petyr Baelish
Trog
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« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2015, 03:55:56 PM »

Trog, why not put it to the test? Actions,not words.

Put which bit the test? The deserving better bit? I intend to.

I know her words are only words. If she truly felt that way she has had months to make an effort to save our marriage and even now this sentence is all i've heard from her. She's obv quite content to go on with her "meaningless and empty" life without me!

Puke
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anxiety5
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« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2015, 04:23:25 PM »

Trog, why not put it to the test? Actions,not words.

Put which bit the test? The deserving better bit? I intend to.

I know her words are only words. If she truly felt that way she has had months to make an effort to save our marriage and even now this sentence is all i've heard from her. She's obv quite content to go on with her "meaningless and empty" life without me!

Puke

My ex agreed that our relationship was one way, that it didn't have much reciprocity that it was all about her wants and needs and that she is controlling despite admitting that I was dependable and trustworthy (in other words there is no reason she should be controlling about me)

Furthermore, the solutions I presented in such a soft benign way, I validated her position, I tried bringing things up 100 times, dozens of different ways. She agreed with the things I'd say yet in the end she couldn't agree to change. She couldn't agree to even try things a different way. Nothing. It was essentially, knowing she can be abusive and me having to deal with it.

So after I broke things off, she starts checking in with me despite me asking for space. "Hope you are ok"

YOU DON'T HOPE IM OK. If you hoped I was ok, if you cared, if you gave a crap, if you really missed me you wouldn't be a totalitarian control freak who refuses to submit to anything other than your ways (which you admit to being flawed and failing in previous relationships)

Don't fall for ANY of their nonsense. They are like a sales rep who doesn't take the time on a customer anymore because he's trying to find new business. But they will still check in from time to time to ensure they still own the account.  It's hollow and empty and it's contradictory.

When I pointed all this out, she ran for cold shoulder mountain as fast as she could. I had pointed out all her hypocrisy, contradiction, and she was left with nothing to say. Rather than admit to her flawed nonsensical and irrational logic, she just went silent hoping to shun me into submission and dropping things.

Instead I dropped her.
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Trog
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« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2015, 04:29:39 PM »

":)on't fall for ANY of their nonsense. They are like a sales rep who doesn't take the time on a customer anymore because he's trying to find new business. But they will still check in from time to time to ensure they still own the account.  It's hollow and empty and it's contradictory. "

Perfect analogy.
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« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2015, 11:06:35 PM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

Anxiety5,

I can't thank you enough for this post.

even though my r/s has been over since 8/14, I've not been able to let completely go of the

" what if I would have only done more?"  tortured thoughts.

Reading your insightful post has been a lightbulb moment for me.

I DO believe in my values. I KNOW what in me was squashed to bits.

I also know it will NEVER happen again. I am me and that is a good thing.

Thank you , thank you, from the bottom of my heart.
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« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2015, 05:24:30 AM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

This is a fantastic, well-worded description of exactly what I went through. My expwBPD is totally unaccountable for any of her actions and mine most assuredly has no regret. I was not only "to blame" I was even responsible for her cheating on me? What balanced adult can actually even make that statement?

I was codependent and I do have good values and I was trusting and faithful and honest. I was drawn in by the manipulative love bombing. I sought to have adult conversations about the truth and the cheating., to care and have understanding. I got derision and lies. She ran off... .but she did not stop contacting me. ... .just often enough to "keep the hook set"

I have gone absolute NC for me as I will not tolerate the endless crazy-making childish behavior that is cruel and so, so, so unpredictable to my rational mind. I have absolute No Contact because I will not tolerate being treated that way.

... .but I still have emotional pain and grief regarding all that I went through... .some kind of deep-seated emotional damage occurred to me as a result of the repeated vindictive cruelty.

It hangs with me still. I have this underlying disbelief that a person that I cared so deeply about could actually behave in the manner that she did/does ... .with no remorse or self examination... It is just not something that I wanted to learn existed in the world. I keep trying to reject the information that I experienced first-hand. I don't want to know that this exists in the world... .but of course, it does.
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« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2015, 07:12:20 PM »

"Anxiety 5, Thanks for this: "So they may feel regret but it's because they feel they invested too much, we were overpriced, we broke and inconvenienced them, and they should have gone with the other brand."

This is what I experienced... .It was so, so cold and clinical the way that she "disposed" of me... .My pwBPD one-upped your analogy. She went shopping for the new model while the old model was still working just fine"

Boy, if this isn't accurate! I am going to add my ex BPD fiancé thinks I broke him, 8 years of dates... .a ring... .jewelry... Well, after 8 years of his foot half out the door leaving me with constant anxiety and PTSD I deserved everything HE gave me with his free will. He was dating me with no commitment for 8 years and a rollercoaster ride. He tells it like he is the poor victim and how he was taken advantage of. That is why he had to dump his fiancé via email and run.

He will never have regrets as he suffered so and was taken advantage of because he is "a nice guy" as he calls himself. Nice is not a word I would use to describe him... .thx for post.

You are exactly right. When we regret something that means we feel ownership over it's failure. We wish we would have done something more, or we feel we did something wrong. These individuals entire existence was created and survives by reinforcing a false ego. Their defense mechanisms of rage, deflect, minimize or deny are the foundation of so many of our arguments. In essence, they are unaccountable for their actions and behaviors. Therefore by definition someone whose entire existence is based on these principles, it's impossible for them to feel regret because nothing is ever their fault.

We wish that there would be some magic moment where they would admit all their wrongs and apologize for all the grief they caused. This would help us accept things. It would provide closure.

Our entire relationships with them are driven by our insecurities. We were not whole when we met them, that's why the love bombing was so successful. They filled in all our deficits and insecurities and made us feel whole, that feeling is why we looked at them as soul mates. But it was manipulative. For there is nothing more painful than the person you feel who completed you, starts to devalue you. Our error is in seeking self worth through someone else to begin with.

Our hopes and desires that they will apologize and provide us closure are no different. We are still seeking validation through someone else's actions. That's where we have to realize that we don't really need that. All the conflict we went through was a clash of their pathology vs. the morals and values of right/wrong that are alive within us. We knew we were being treated poorly that is why we suffered so much, that's what caused all that pain. Once we have the ability to understand that we have within us everything we need to self validate without looking to some external source, we can begin believing in our own morals and values and how badly they were stepped on and breached. This destruction of our very core principles is all the validation and confirmation we need to know they were wrong. The emotional abuse violates us so badly that we don't need to understand why. WE KNOW. And when we learn to empower ourselves for this validation, the ultimate enforcement is to simply walk away from them and never look back. We don't need validation of their wrongs through an apology. What we need is to believe in our own values and principles vs their behavior. The validation lies within us, not them. And the closure is that you aren't going to tolerate being treated that way.

This is a fantastic, well-worded description of exactly what I went through. My expwBPD is totally unaccountable for any of her actions and mine most assuredly has no regret. I was not only "to blame" I was even responsible for her cheating on me? What balanced adult can actually even make that statement?

I was codependent and I do have good values and I was trusting and faithful and honest. I was drawn in by the manipulative love bombing. I sought to have adult conversations about the truth and the cheating., to care and have understanding. I got derision and lies. She ran off... .but she did not stop contacting me. ... .just often enough to "keep the hook set"

I have gone absolute NC for me as I will not tolerate the endless crazy-making childish behavior that is cruel and so, so, so unpredictable to my rational mind. I have absolute No Contact because I will not tolerate being treated that way.

... .but I still have emotional pain and grief regarding all that I went through... .some kind of deep-seated emotional damage occurred to me as a result of the repeated vindictive cruelty.

It hangs with me still. I have this underlying disbelief that a person that I cared so deeply about could actually behave in the manner that she did/does ... .with no remorse or self examination... It is just not something that I wanted to learn existed in the world. I keep trying to reject the information that I experienced first-hand. I don't want to know that this exists in the world... .but of course, it does.

I was in a very similar place. I had two relationships in a row that turned out very similar. How could this happen again? How could I be so weak that I didn't leave when they cheated? Why do I believe their lies? What is wrong with me?

I've made this analogy before, but bear with me. If your brother or sister left their job, left their wife/husband, stopped paying their mortgage, hit their child, abandoned them too and ended up under a bridge where they committed suicide a year later. Each and every incident above, would be a tragedy that hurt you. How could they do this? How could they leave their family and disappoint everyone so badly? Suppose I insert that said person is a heroin addict. While it hurts no less, suddenly it's different. Suddenly there is a source and cause of all these behaviors. All of the destructive things mentioned above are exactly what addicts do. It still hurts you as their sibling to watch this destruction, but it's different. You have a source for it all. The wife/husband and the kids realize he/she didn't leave because they weren't good enough. He didn't abandon them because they weren't ok. In fact sadly, it was very impersonal. It actually had nothing to do with them. He is an addict. That's what addicts do. That is their pathology. And in the end they choose their addiction rather than anything else around them, and quite possibly die from it.

You need to apply this same scenario to your ex. You live in a World of logic. They live in a world of emotions. Not only this, but dysfunctional and dark emotions from deep seeded issues that preceded them even knowing you. They too are addicts. Long ago they created a false self. The propping up of this ego is as important to them as the walls standing in your house. If their ego collapses, it would be equivalent of the walls in your home crashing down on you. In both cases, death of identity and self.  They are addicted to supply. Attention, praise, affirmation, anything that makes them feel omnipotent, or important. Anything that will advance and accept their pathology. And just like the addict above, they begin sucking the life out of you in order to feed their addictions. You are only ok when you are feeding that ego or reinforcing it. And our self worth damage also preceded this relationship. The manipulator we met knew this and can read people. That is precisely why they filled in all those little holes they detected in our self worth. They made us feel whole, and we were addicted to them for that rush. The mind boggling thing is, how could we possibly be addicted to someone so hurtful, contradictory, callous, and at times purely evil? Who they are at the end is who they really are. What we miss, is that feeling of being whole. But we don't MISS THEM. Here's the mind bending part. WE MISS THE WAY THEY MADE US FEEL ABOUT OURSELVES. That was probably the first time in the world we felt ok. whole. And that's why the love bombing worked so well.

Two points to take in my post (sorry for the length)

1. Their behavior is a pathology that you should not internalize or take personal. Think of the drug addict analogy. We were used because we allowed ourselves to be used.

2. We don't miss them. We miss the way they made us feel in the beginning about ourselves.

    Figure out the ways they "completed" you and you will figure out exactly where your deficits of self worth are located. Build a healthy self esteem, build strong core values and set up firm boundaries.

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« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2015, 04:24:36 AM »

" They made us feel whole, and we were addicted to them for that rush. The mind boggling thing is, how could we possibly be addicted to someone so hurtful, contradictory, callous, and at times purely evil? Who they are at the end is who they really are. What we miss, is that feeling of being whole. But we don't MISS THEM. Here's the mind bending part. WE MISS THE WAY THEY MADE US FEEL ABOUT OURSELVES. That was probably the first time in the world we felt ok. whole. And that's why the love bombing worked so well.

Two points to take in my post (sorry for the length)

1. Their behavior is a pathology that you should not internalize or take personal. Think of the drug addict analogy. We were used because we allowed ourselves to be used.

2. We don't miss them. We miss the way they made us feel in the beginning about ourselves.

   Figure out the ways they "completed" you and you will figure out exactly where your deficits of self worth are located. Build a healthy self esteem, build strong core values and set up firm boundaries."


Anxiety... I know what you are saying is correct. intellectually I know it's true with every fiber of

my brain... .but there is some deep-seated part of me (my soul?), that just longs for that love-bombing, being-whole phase. The insanity of my affliction is that that longing just owns me (It overrides my intellect), and it feels as though it can be satisfied by no other than the person that turned into tthe evil, hurtful shrew, (I know that it's mental illness... .but it is still who she's is). Of course... .that is who she always was. Maybe my soul can figure this out someday! :-)

Thanks for taking the time to put our shared experience into such a well-worded description. It is just exactly what I lived!
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« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2015, 05:18:57 AM »

Anxiety... I know what you are saying is correct. intellectually I know it's true with every fiber of my brain... .but there is some deep-seated part of me (my soul?), that just longs for that love-bombing, being-whole phase. The insanity of my affliction is that that longing just owns me (It overrides my intellect), and it feels as though it can be satisfied by no other than the person that turned into tthe evil, hurtful shrew, (I know that it's mental illness... .but it is still who she's is). Of course... .that is who she always was. Maybe my soul can figure this out someday! :-)

I understand what you're saying with every fiber of my being... .it's endlessly frustrating  when your head and your heart don't align.  I am certain that, even if she were to knock on my door tomorrow, I would not let her back into my life because doing so would be like taking a large knife and plunging it into my own heart.  I have enough instinct for self preservation to keep the door shut. But amazingly... .even knowing that doesn't change the fact that I feel the same as you - as though she is the only one who can make me feel happy and whole.

I think this is a huge clue for the both of us... .a clue that the way that we're feeling doesn't really have anything to do with our ex's.  It is likely an ancient childhood longing... .a thread that (if we were to follow it backward) would lead us to the true source of our pain and longing. I am beginning that process right now for myself.

Are you seeing a T?
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« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2015, 07:23:50 AM »

Anxiety... I know what you are saying is correct. intellectually I know it's true with every fiber of my brain... .but there is some deep-seated part of me (my soul?), that just longs for that love-bombing, being-whole phase. The insanity of my affliction is that that longing just owns me (It overrides my intellect), and it feels as though it can be satisfied by no other than the person that turned into tthe evil, hurtful shrew, (I know that it's mental illness... .but it is still who she's is). Of course... .that is who she always was. Maybe my soul can figure this out someday! :-)

I understand what you're saying with every fiber of my being... .it's endlessly frustrating  when your head and your heart don't align.  I am certain that, even if she were to knock on my door tomorrow, I would not let her back into my life because doing so would be like taking a large knife and plunging it into my own heart.  I have enough instinct for self preservation to keep the door shut. But amazingly... .even knowing that doesn't change the fact that I feel the same as you - as though she is the only one who can make me feel happy and whole.

I think this is a huge clue for the both of us... .a clue that the way that we're feeling doesn't really have anything to do with our ex's.  It is likely an ancient childhood longing... .a thread that (if we were to follow it backward) would lead us to the true source of our pain and longing. I am beginning that process right now for myself.

Are you seeing a T?

I have been thru 3 years of T and one year of group T and I am in a self help group. I was in a 1-year relationship, too... which I ended for a lot of healthy reasons... .but during that relationship I still had the longing and I also realized that I was not going to trust another woman with my heart... .Period  Knowing that ... .for me... .well... .what's the point of even going there.  I also, am apparently not like most men, I always needed an emotional connection to be with someone. That was primary. Not sex.

I am not young ... .so I have almost(LOL) come to the point of acceptance regarding my feelings and I just do other things in my life. Dating and women are off the list. Completely. I am not open to it. I also watch the "antics" of a lot of people in relationships around me and to tell you the truth, most of it just keeps me away.

I can't recommend that anyone have my take on that, but after all that I have been through, it just feels right for me. I do not ever want to learn again that someone I care about so deeply can act that way toward me.

No way.
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« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2015, 08:14:41 AM »

What stood out to me was this line,"we loved how they made us feel about ourselves."

So did we even love them?

Our was it just our own plain narcissism?

What I have found for myself is that it was really a combination of of falling in love with the way she made me feel, how I felt by interacting with her and beyond that was the trancending of falling in love with my own projection and it was holding onto that which has allowed me to begin forgiving my ex and myself.  I'm not quite sure how to describe it but it was what I was really after in the first place.

But the pwBPD I have talked to are full of regrets when I met my ex she would constantly regret interactions with people from her past like ghosts haunting her and then their would typically be some sort of transference of if she could trust me? And some little random gesture would reassure her and she would shower me with affections.

We often use love bombing as a sort of blanket term but the reality is their was a lot more going on under the surface that must be explored to make any kind of sense out of it and what it all meant and why we got into such a mess. 
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« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2015, 06:12:27 PM »

Staff only

The thread has reached it's post limit and is now locked. It's a worthwhile topic and a similar topic is emcouraged in a new discussion.
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