She pushed me into wall scratched my face

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

External advice often carries more weight than your own (in her eyes) and not as easy to dismiss. Nor does it affect you as much if she does.

[waverider]

External advice often carries more weight than your own (in her eyes) and not as easy to dismiss. Nor does it affect you as much if she does.

[Mutt]

Everyone needs a helping hand from time to time, there's no shame in that.

[hurthusband]

Yea for a couple of days she stayed with her grandmother feeling depressed.  Called and texted alot, but was kind.  I was a bit down too with a stomach bug.  Anyways, I had to find one of the kids who did not take the bus home and tried to hide out with his girlfriend for some extra time.  Obviously, not right, and I hunted him down because all teenagers are idiots and easy to find and figure out.  Had a talk with him calmly, and explained he would be punished, but I understand trying to be your own person as a teenager and we were not angry, but scared.  Did some chores she said I didnt need to do. 

Then Saturday came... I could sense from her texts it was coming...   She came home and pretty much everything nice I tried to say to her got a nasty comeback.  Everything the kids and I had done to help out was picked apart.  She was all about how I do not care about her again.  Anything I would say would get a negative remark, if I acted cold, it would be I do not care, if I just tried to isolate from her, I did not care.  Took a nap and things calmed some.  She got depressed though because her sister invited her to go to Chicago with her but it was to see their step/half siblings who my wife is angry at.  This infuriated my wife who felt like her sister betrayed her.  Personally it reminded me of the situation with my mother.  She wants others to cut out people that make them happy because they make her unhappy.  The place she wanted to have dinner at was closed too. So she yelled at kids then went to bed scared she would do more harm.

I got the kids together and rallied her to a dinner as a family at another place that peaked her fancy.  By end of night she was angry at me again though.  Sunday she was angry with me.  I tried to go to church and she was upset I did not let her know.  I let our son know who was awake because honestly, I did not want to be yelled at.

Apparantly he had been cutting himself so I had to have a long talk with him and wife was upset and left.  He explained its how she talks to him.  She is basically on a rampage until she has to go to stay with her grandmother for the night to take care of her which was very nice of her.  Rest of night and today has been texts on how I do not care, I do not love her, she does not feel it.  I just do not know what more to do.

She then said some flags to me.  She told me to tell the kids goodnight for her.  I asked if she wanted to speak to them cause they were awake.  She then said I was judging her for not wanting to talk to them.  I was just offering because talking to them makes them and her happy.  Not judging.

Then she says she thinks her therapist and I are ganging up on her...

I dont know

[Panda39]

This infuriated my wife who felt like her sister betrayed her.  Personally it reminded me of the situation with my mother.

This was a good observation.

Apparantly he had been cutting himself so I had to have a long talk with him and wife was upset and left.  He explained its how she talks to him.

This is very serious is son in therapy?  If not he should be, he is telling you loud and clear that he is in pain and needs help.

[hurthusband]

wife keeps saying she will set up an appointment.  we got doctor lined up but it never happens...  

she is shutting down... yelling at everyone then going to sleep claiming nobody cares.  I finally told her she has to try and help herself. she is going to remain alone if she yells at everyone and does not try to go out and meet people or do something instead of sleeping.

She is dying.  I see it.  Isolating herself more and more and playing a victim.  Blaming everyone for abandoning her and while others have blame, she isnt trying to make things better or even know where to start

one of the kids said he was ready to call police over the verbal abuse.  I do not think cops can do anything about that, but its telling of situation.  She felt ashamaned last night for missing their Boy Scouts award ceremony where he fathers passing was observed...

I do not know anymore.  I tried to do it a balanced way for years.  In doing that we maintained an existance that was not growing but not falling back that far neither.  She was unhappy and i wasnt particularly happy.  I then shifted to trying it her way in which everything collapsed rapidly.  Then shifted it to trying putting everything into therapy and getting help.  Talking $36k a year in medical... things are worse.  I am about 1 month from being flat broke and tapped out.  Cards maxxed... bills not being able to be paid.  It is not for lack of a bad job neither.  I make good money.  I am not rich, but last I saw twice what median income is for my demo.  She demands then I ask for more.  At this point the only way out I see is her inheritance... .  either she takes its and helps us both out or she takes it and runs.  If she takes it and runs, I can rough it easier and build myself back up over probably 5 to 7 years. 

I see that its possible 20 years of my life was wasted on trying to help her.  She does not see it though.  She does see how she is hurting the kids though now.  That is an eye opener.  I notified her sister that she needs to talk to the kids about what is going on.  I did not want to skew any opinion, but just ask what they see as they need to be protected.

Her sister is not the best person for the job, but she is tough even if not very empathetic.

My sister went into hospital and had her appendix removed saturday... turns out it was not her appendix and still in hospital.  I am sure she will be fine, but my wife said such horrible things as

"i hope she dies, she does not deserve to live.  My parents deserved to live.  They contributed.  Your sister did nothing.  I would say her daughter would be better off without her, but then she would be stuck with your mom.  All your family deserves to die, and I dont care if you die"

I told her that was sick and she needs help.  That was extent though of me battling.  She apologized later on, but to even say that... wow...

I was trying to sleep on couch.  she said she was scared alone and to come up.  I said I cant that I am scared to be in there with her.  She did not like that and threatened some.  I went up and she got mad a little at me as i suspected.  Got me up at 4:00 am saying she was fine because apparantly she had been up she said 6 times in night and i did not wake up and ask how she was.  I sat awake for hour and half unable to sleep scared I would miss something again.   Thats why I wanted to sleep on couch...

[momtara]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you can see that you have been doing this balancing act for years and you have done your best - more than anyone could have, humanly - and in the end she doesn't get better. Running through your money and other stuff doesn't help. You have done small fixes, bought her something to satisfy her, etc., but in the end the illness returns.

You have involved some outside people now - bravo!  Keep doing that.  There are more resources to reach out to... .it has to be better than the torture you are going through, and the kids are in trouble.

The way you describe her constantly being mad at you is hard - I think you have been living in fear so long that you don't remember what it's like to be among people who aren't taking every little thing as something to start an argument over. You should not have to be afraid to breathe.

I see this last email as a very good sign because you are setting boundaries, recognizing the need to tell people on the outside, realizing that this is not a fair or normal situation, and realizing it is not your fault.

I am worried about the kids.  Wondering if you can tell the school or have the child talk to teacher or school psychologist.  You won't need to 'set up an appointment,' the kid's school can let him meet the psych pretty easily if he requests it.  (Better if it doesn't just come from you).  If he called the police, they might inform social services or something else, which may help but who knows.  If you think it is hard on you, imagine a kid with no freedom. They love their mom but are hurt by her. This can screw a child up for YEARS. You say she won't make the appointment - perhaps you can make it ASAP.  Especially if she's out of the house.  Or at least, have it dealt with thru a school counselor. This will be free and give your son time to talk.  Take your chance, don't wait.

The red flag of her saying 'tell the kids goodnight' would scare me too. It is too bad she is so sick and in such pain. I can see that deep down, the person you fell in love with is in there but that person is controlled by an illness that could hurt her and hurt all of you. I think her therapist should have her committed if she is not taking care of herself. Imagine if she was forced into treatment for 4-8 weeks and given medicine?  It might not solve all the problems but it might stabilize her.  Keep telling her shrink what is happening.  I think you should find a way to document any threats or dangers she poses so if you can, you can do something and have the proof you need.

This balancing act is too much for one person. I'm so glad she has been at her grandmother's - the house must have been calm and better for your kids and you. Can you imagine what life would like if it was this way more often?

I really wish you would talk to a crisis counselor or mobile psych team. If you see she is dying, it may be time to deal fully with this issue - she is slowly driving the kids to cut themselves etc.  That is pretty bad, Hurthusband.  It's not ok.  Aren't you glad that grandmother and sister are involved even in a minor way?  You have to get used to telling people.  You told her psych.  I think maybe involving school people may help because they can bring in others to help your son.

I know one fear of yours is never getting to see the kids again. I still think that if you document all this stuff - and have experts who may one day testify - you might be able to have some custody or visitation considering she just isn't able to care for them on her own.  I'm not saying you should get a divorce anyway, as I know you don't want to, just thinking of how you can protect yourself down the line.

In any case, some of your posts have been scary - you have been in the situation so long, you don't realize how un-normal it is.  Please keep telling people.  No one wants to have a tragedy happen - suicide of kid, your wife, or you, or an accident or assuault with a car or a gun or anything else.

[hurthusband]

she having a panic attack... I informed her what one of the kids said when she kept attacking me more and pushing and pulling.  When she told me to cancel therapy and that she isnt going that she isnt hurting the kids I let her know what they are saying...

It destroyed her.  She told me never to come back and she hates me.  She is just going to lay in bed and do nothing ever again...

I am going to go to the appointment regardless... .I am the only thing keeping her from dying at this point.  The only thing fighting for her.  If I stop, there is nothing to keep her going and protect the kids.  The kids will lose their mother.  She will stop.  I am almost bled dry from all of this... but perhaps a miracle can happen.

I know she needs extended care at this point, but I do not even have the means of getting her in anywhere anymore.  I work with the local MHMR... they do not even know what BPD is... they cannot help.  She was in their care for years and they treated her for schizophrenia and bipolar.  No therapy... just pumped her full of meds and she lied in bed sleeping for weeks on end.  Its same now but she gets up to rage at everyone...

She keeps saying I am lying.  I do not know if I am delusional at this point.  I really do not.  If I am not, she is... I know I have my point of view that will poison the truth somewhat.  I just dont know how much.  I want somebody else to step in and be the judge.  Somebody she trusts and will listen to but I just dont know of anyone. 

[momtara]

 "I do not know if I am delusional at this point."

You're not.

"perhaps a miracle can happen."

Do you want to take that chance?  There are better options.

"I want somebody else to step in and be the judge."

Good.  Maybe tell everything to the school.  Try the crisis hotline that members here have suggested.  I know it's not simple but there are better ways.  When she lay in bed on meds, were things calmer?  She may well have more than BPD.  It may be better than her or you or the kids getting hurt.

The kids are saying she is abusive, they are cutting themselves and begging you for help.  :)eep down, wife wants you to take a stand too.  You want someone to be the judge.   I think you need to find that person ASAP.  Someone aggressive and experienced.   I'm glad you're going to the appointment anyway.  There is too much pressure on you and you are not a mental health professional.  If this was taken out of your hands, at least partly, it would be a blessing.  Her counselor should not leave you to have this burden.  

She has now assaulted you again.  She is a danger.  She meets a standard for hospitalization.

Maybe a state NAMI person can help with referrals and ideas if local did not.

[hurthusband]

been a week since she pushed me.

She didnt show to marriage counsel and told her therapist she isnt going back.  I sat there and talked some.  Basically therapist couldnt say a whole lot without wife there, but it was what i thought

I guess just have to draw lines and defend myself at this point.

[momtara]

You are doing a great job. But it would take superhuman powers to solve all of it. Imagine in the future that someone gets really hurt. What would you have looked back and done differently?

Reached out more? Begged someone for help? If you think there is danger - a kid cutting himself, possible suicides, wife dying, please reach out to the right people. Crisis line, and/or at least explain situation to school even if no action taken yet. May not be best to wait until it comes to a head.

[Mutt]

been a week since she pushed me.

She didnt show to marriage counsel and told her therapist she isnt going back.  I sat there and talked some.  Basically therapist couldnt say a whole lot without wife there, but it was what i thought

I guess just have to draw lines and defend myself at this point.

Your wife is drawing a line with not showing up to marriage counseling and saying she's not going back? It telegraphs she's not wanting to do work.

I think you have your own T? It's a good idea to have your own T and an MC. Have you made an appointment with your T or what does your T have to say about the kids? If you don't have a T have you thought about getting your own T since your wife's boundary is that she doesn't want to do marriage counseling?

Your kids are telegraphing that they need help. It sounds like since your wife didn't show up your saying your defending yourself against your wife? A way to draw a line is to become proactive rather than reactive. There are possible future events that may be regretful if it's preventable by choices that we make in the present that have influences on not only us, the kids as well.

[hurthusband]

and she called her therapist and apologized and said she would be back...

its really a jekyll and hyde thing going on now.  No real rhyme as to why jekyll comes back, but hyde can be triggered by anything

[momtara]

that's a pretty accurate description of BPD... .

[hurthusband]

well... she got some money in from insurance so that helps, but she was going to go out of town driving with kids for a week to friends... now she isnt.  kind of looked forward to it

[hurthusband]

well... we got along a couple of days... then she left town to go to Missouri with her kids to a friends.  The whole time she was there pretty much she was kind.  She did not respond to me much and sometimes had a down moment, but was pleasant.  She also got nearly $13k in inheritance which is just a fraction, but put it into the bank and said I could pay $5k of credit cards down since we were maxxed.  I forgot a minimum payment on one card so I put $5250.  Then 15th came around... I still had over $400 of my own money in the bank and paid two more bills that were due tommorow.  Then auto insurance i forgot about auto-debited couple of hundred (it went up from $164 i think cause of my wife's DWI.  Anyways, last day she was pissed cause bank account was down to $5900.  I also had over $2k in checks I was about to deposit so i do not see what the big deal is.  Besides... I had been footing the bill on everything for basically 12 years.  Yea she might put in 1200, but we were spending $11,500 a month.  That was all on me.

She said I was a theif and she knew it and was going to pull her money out.  Now... excuse me but, I had also been putting my inheritence money in bank to pay bills and spending my bdays doing stuff for her and kids.  As soon as she got home, she was yelling at me for coming home without calling.  I had taken care of the house and dogs, and all of this while having some new illness... Sunday woke up feeling hungover but I do not drink... by monday I was having what was diagnosed as vertigo all the time.  I saw an ENT, and he gave me excerises to help, but also have to see an opthamologist.  Its like I am drunk at all times.  I dinged a car moving it even.  Trying to work... neither here nor there

Wife picked apart me not watering plant, while I fed the dogs, I did not get a spare roll of food... etc.  Just anger.

While gone she never gave me time of day really, but was kind.  Now home she was hammering my phone at work again.  Telling me how son had last day of Spring Break and I needed to take today off to spend time with him and be a father for once.  I work less than 50 hours 6 days a week.  Its not easy schedule, but I am the sole income.  I dont know what else to do there on that.  She keeps demanding me ask for raises.

I give in and say fine.  She does not believe me.  When I get home, I make it half way up stairs when she wakes up screaming at me and accusing me of sneaking and not calling again and scaring her.  She said I opened her door and so forth, but i was not even up the stairs yet.  She let into me and I went downstairs.  She followed me demanding i leave the house.  I said I have a right to be there and I am avoiding her so please leave me be.  She kept on.  She said I have been colder lately and I said your doctor had told me that I was finally putting up boundaries and that was good

She then called me a pussy, and weak, and insinuated I was faking illness.  She said I was a bad husband and she regretting meeting me.  She called me a theif.  I snapped back that she was the thief.  She was the one few years back that charged up a Niemans card and I had collections calling me cause I had no idea.  She was the one who spent whenver and whatever without telling me.  I finally just left.  As i was leaving she came out and threw somethinga t my car that hit hard.  Turns out it was just fudge, but I went back inside.  I was going to stand my ground and not let her bully me.

I tried to just sit there as she said I was ___ty, my family was ___ty, she would have walked right past me if she saw me again like it was years ago.  On and on, she said she would keep going until I left.  She then said she was going to go to the neighbors and tell them I hit her to have me forcibly removed.  I just sat there...   Then she said that I am not a father, that those kids do not respect me and I do not spend time with them.  That she bonded more with a man in Missouri than they ever have with me.  That they love her more (which I agreed).  She pointed out I never been on a vacation with one of them which is true.  He goes with his real father and she takes them places more cause I only get off about a week vacation a year which we took other kid or just her places.  Just hammering on me about the kids.  Using the kids against me is a mega trigger.  I think it is the most cold thing another parent can do...

I walk away and she follows saying things and trying to push in after me as I try and close a door.  She then calls me week more, and I turn around and say "your parents would be ashamed of you".  Now background is her parents died 3 months ago and it shook her world.  She didnt really get along with them when alive, but she was with them every second towards the end as they were both sick.  My mother levied that same accusation on my wife few months back when my mother found out that I was kicked out of house and my wife told me she would not let me see kids ever again (they are not biologically mine, but known them since 3 and 1).  This was the worst dagger I could have said and instantly regretted it.  She left and disappeared for an hour.  I worried she might have gone to hurt herself.  I feel horrible for saying it.  I explained that her parents are proud of her and it was wrong, but it was just so hard when she is saying the things she was saying.  I say they might not be proud of what she was doing to me, which I believe, but mine wouldnt be proud of me and saying that neither...

Anyways, slept in car... pretty sure we are over.  I am concerned what will happen to her.  I am still having vertigo and feel horrible.  I feel sick over all of this.  Extreme guilt.  I am not going to kill myself but it seems like better option.  I feel like I killed her.

O she did change offer of helping me with debt which she pretty much accumulated.  The whoel thing on her money is only my money would be used for bills and hers would be used for carpet and vacations etc.  She was getting $200k and I had $60k in credit card bills, a mortgage, two cars to pay for... etc...   I had $20k in bank when I moved in with her... I was great with money.  her medical bills is biggest expense... I feel sick...

I feel she just wanted to control me.  never respected me.  She says i only hurt her, and did not care which I do soo much.  She said I never did anything while she was thoughtful and did things like buy me fudge in missouri.

So here I am... past 4 months, 2 inlaws dead, bankrupted basically with last money I had burying them, grandfather died, grandmother in icu for 2 weeks, step father kicked out of my mothers house, my father has no job and is now bankrupt losing millions, i cannot even concetrate or see or feel like i have balance, broke, no home, relationship personally with my mother ruined because of how she gets along with my wife... no friends... not that I ever had any that were reliable or that did not ask for help from me and never gave any.

My wife has no family, no job... .BPD tearing her apart... .

I apologize, but she only sees it as me being evil and not any empathy on how what she did may have lead to it.  How she did evil too.  I still did it though so I need to apologize, but apologizing verifies in her mind that I am a solely evil person and she does not recognize any wrong on her behalf.  So I dont apologize which is horrible of me, but if I do, i verify all she thinks and feels.  She believes either way that its unforgivable and its so mean it killed her and she can never recover.  She says its the worst thing ever said to her.  The only way I can see to even heal her from it is if she sees things from my perspective, and understands it was horrible and not right to say, but it was said because she was saying the most horrible things to me and so I lost it and its not true.

If she never wants to be with me, I can live with that, but I do not want her to feel that she is bad in her parents eyes, and want to die from that, and I do not want her to think I am some horrible person who would just say that to be mean and self centered.  I just wanted the pain she was causing me to stop...

How can I fix this?  How can I help her?

[momtara]

She says and does terrible things - but you say  one thing back and you feel so so guilty over it. It's just more of how she manipulates you. I understand you want to make amends for what you said. This has happened before and you will get the chance.

But also realize that every time you engage, you end up getting sucked into saying and doing things you regret. It's best not to. It especially seems important not to do things related to your job just because she bullies you into it. Your job is one of the few things that keeps you going.

You can write an email apologizing for that remark, revise it until you think it says what you need it to. Don't send unless you really think it's ready. Or just say it in person next time. But remember that she has said terrible terrible things to you, caused a lot of pain, and everyone is entitled to make mistakes - you are human. Normal spouses forgive things said in arguments if it's once in a while. On the whole you are a good person trying your best with a terrible situation. And you have done wonders for those kids. So try not to take it to heart.

[Grey Kitty]

How can I fix this?  How can I help her?

You can't help her with problems that her 'solution' to is to attack you or blame you.

You can't fix her. You spent YEARS breaking yourself trying to do it, and she's only gotten worse.

The only person you can save is yourself.

[OnceConfused]

Hurthusband:

I feel for you, hurthusband.

I think you have been asking for a long, long time - how you can help her.

I don't think you can help her. the more you ask about helping her, the deeper you sink into the abyss of despair.

I really don't understand how you can put up with all of those abuses, day after day. You must be a saint. Being a saint is your good point and also your downfall in this case.

Remember, doing the same thing will bring you the same result. So, you have to do things differently otherwise, you will have the same experience every day for the rest of your life. Is that what you want?

[hurthusband]

Everything here is from my perspective. I am sure she gives her perspective and it sounds like I am a monster.  Whose is real I do not know.

I know I do wrong... it does not matter so much to me personally if she does a million things wrong and I do one thing wrong.  I still feel I must make amends.  I do care for her, and I do not believe I can fix things for her.  If this was my 12 year old child, I would still put up with it. 

I am not sure anymore though.  My vertigo, vision, or whatever it is has me so foggy and messed up I cannot comprehend much.  I am getting tired of dealing with her which is why I am starting to say things and not hold back as much.  I am getting tired of people I deal with at my job who are jerks.  I am just getting tired of every day.

I want to be the best person I can be, and I do not want to wrong anyone and make amends for that.  Wrongs done to me, I am good at forgiving.  The problem is that it will repeat itself in a cycle.  Then I will wrong and feel I need to pay for it and take abuse.  One of the kids snapped at her that she is chasing everyone away and that if she yells at them like she did again she is going to call the police and divorce her as a parent. 

My wife has not say she would kill herself, but I would not be surprised any moment to hear she is dead. 

Personally, I am on the floor.  I cannot get up at this point.  legs broken, celing falling, and all i can do is try and hold it up.  I cannot escape it.  I need help or it collapses on us all it feels like.

[momtara]

Hi HH. You keep saying this is only your perspective, but just looking alone at the things she has done, it's pretty clear she doesn't make good decisions, and that she is cruel to you. Even her kids notice and suffer from the abuse. You seem resigned but you have done so many good things lately - talked to her counselor, talked to her relatives. Tried to help the kids as best you can.  It frustrates me that your T and her T haven't done more - like set their foot down and say, you and she should come in regularly, we won't charge you as much, we want to find a way so you two are not hurting every day. Maybe that would involve some separation, or just boundaries, or something. It's not healthy to live this way or have kids in jeopardy, emotionally if not physically. If you were in physical pain, doctors would manage that, so they need to manage this too.

Please don't hesitate to talk to another professional if you think they may have a new idea. I really don't want things to go too far one day and have you wishing you'd stepped out of the situation somehow or told someone else. Crisis line, school counselor, another experienced BPD person - I wish there was someone else who could help. In the meantime, keep setting the boundaries - refuse to engage in fighting or blame, just keep repeating you won't fight and it's not right to fight, or something neutral. You'll take away her power. And don't get into fights with people at work if it puts your job in jeopardy.

You really are a good person and you deserve happiness.

[hurthusband]

just really feels its sacrifice her and maybe kids to save myself and i am not really sure how to save myself at this point neither.  Bit feels like I bet all in and doomed unless we work

[Mutt]

This is a worthwhile topic and is locked. A new and similar topic of discussion can be created.