I am not proud of the things that I have done.

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I feel guilt and shame for letting things she said effect me in such a significant way.

I am not proud of the fact that I tolerated such abusive behavior for so long, and at times became so angry with her that I yelled back at her.  Why is it that when I yelled, I always felt bad for having lost my temper and apologized, and I never even imagined she would apologize to me.  Sometimes she did, but it was over things I felt were insignificant.  If she really hurt my feelings and I told her she did, there was not an apology.

I was wrong to think that if I loved her enough and held on long enough that she would finally see that I loved her and... change her behavior toward me.

I'm not expecting a reply to any of the stuff I write here, I am just using it as a means to send my thoughts out to the world, since when I send them to her, there is either no response, or...   a very negative one.

[rg1976]

I feel guilt and shame for letting things she said effect me in such a significant way.

I am not proud of the fact that I tolerated such abusive behavior for so long, and at times became so angry with her that I yelled back at her.  Why is it that when I yelled, I always felt bad for having lost my temper and apologized, and I never even imagined she would apologize to me.  Sometimes she did, but it was over things I felt were insignificant.  If she really hurt my feelings and I told her she did, there was not an apology.

I was wrong to think that if I loved her enough and held on long enough that she would finally see that I loved her and... change her behavior toward me.

I'm not expecting a reply to any of the stuff I write here, I am just using it as a means to send my thoughts out to the world, since when I send them to her, there is either no response, or...   a very negative one.

[clydegriffith]

There is absolutley no need to blame yourself. Looking at it that way is an unhealthy perspective.

When i was in Therapy, my T asked me if i blamed myself for any part of what the nightmare that had happened and i gave him a profound "f-no, everything was her fault!". He said that it was good i had this frame of my mind as a lot of his patients often blame themselves.

There is also no need to send your thoughts to the BPD person as chances are more likely than not that you probably don't exist to them. You've found them out so they have to do their best to make you dissapear and can do that very very easily.

[Mutt]

Don't be hard on yourself.

Therapists may see an individual with BPD up to a few hours a week and many difficulties with projections, manipulations and rages.

We were around it day in day out; no professional training.

I apologized and the apologies I received were usually when I asked her a few times. Some sounded sincere and most did not; often she rescinded. It's BPD, she blames everyone for her behaviors, feelings and problems.

[Mike-X]

I know that it hurts to have the relationship end, the sense of loss, the trust in yourself and others damaged, etc.

For me, the idealization phase was intoxicating. I craved it. At times, I questioned whether things were moving too fast, but I dismissed those feelings as my own doubts about whether I was worthy of such intense love. If I could have that again, without the BPD rage, crazy-making, extreme paranoia, extreme impulsively, threats, extreme devaluing, invalidation, etc., I would be all in. I would love to feel what I felt again, and I would love to see her smile and show that joy and love again.

How were things for you early in the relationship?

For me, the devaluation didn't happen over night. It was gradual, with her making more and more appeals to being a victim of her past and then real and fictitious things that I had done. As she presented herself more and more as a victim, including blaming me, I began feeling bad for her and even hurting deeply for her. Then, when the more psychotic symptoms began to appear, I became concerned for this lovely, but terribly damaged, woman. This was all a gradual building of FOG for me

Sure lots of people would have left at earlier signs, and I probably would have left when I was in my 20s. I left many relationships when I was younger at the first sign of even remote incompatibility. However, I don't feel like I was a sucker for staying in this relationship. I feel like I was strong for staying, weaker when I was younger really. I now feel that my staying shows to me that I am a compassionate and loving person, regardless of the devaluing rants that she unleashed on me.

What things are you feeling guilty and shameful about?

[rg1976]

I suppose I was just reflecting on the fact that it isn't all her fault.  It was my fault too.  I feel guilty and shameful for letting her antagonize me until she got a reaction from me (usually I would end up saying something hurtful to her out of anger), and then she would use that particular thing to as a demonstration of how terrible I am.  I know it's not true, but it was hard to keep myself from taking it all personally.

That's about it.

[Mike-X]

I suppose I was just reflecting on the fact that it isn't all her fault.  It was my fault too.  I feel guilty and shameful for letting her antagonize me until she got a reaction from me (usually I would end up saying something hurtful to her out of anger), and then she would use that particular thing to as a demonstration of how terrible I am.  I know it's not true, but it was hard to keep myself from taking it all personally.

That's about it.

I hear you, and I still have my own lingering guilt issues. However, you already said that you recognized your mistakes in the confrontations and apologized. Did you then try to avoid repeating those mistakes? When did you learn about BPD and strategies for dealing with high conflict people?

[rg1976]

I hear you, and I still have my own lingering guilt issues. However, you already said that you recognized your mistakes in the confrontations and apologized. Did you then try to avoid repeating those mistakes? When did you learn about BPD and strategies for dealing with high conflict people?

What did I learn?

So basically, what happened after a while, is that I would steel myself and put up emotional boundaries.  Boundaries that made it impossible for her comments and etc to really hurt.  I mean, they still did hurt, but I just ignored what she was saying as "noise".  I.e. her comments are coming from pain, and she's trying to communicate the best she can.  Now this might just be making excuses, I don't know.  If anything still got through and upset me, I just left.

The thing is, though, then she would blame me for leaving.

We live in separate houses.  She tried to move in once, but that lasted about 3 weeks, and I told her to leave because she was doing all kinds of crazy privacy violating things.  Like going through my trash and looking for receipts so "she could see if I did actually go to Wendy's for lunch like I said".

About separate houses.  The times that I stay at her house became less and less frequent.  I haven't really stayed at her house for about 3 months now.

Here is the common scenerio:

I go to her house after work, we have dinner, watch a show or play a boardgame, then she goes to bed.  I go home.  If I try to stay, then she (because she is mad), won't interact with me at all, or be intimate with me at all.  It has been that way for months.  Of course, I'd really like to have sex, and I don't want to have to ask her for affection, so I don't.  However, I will just lay there in bed, and this will run through my mind: "Why am I even here?  I love her, but she doesn't even treat me nicely."   Anyway, I end up just feeling so bad, I will leave, and THAT really sets her off.  Sometimes she'll get up and cuss me out and tell me I'm a cheater and I'm going over to some other woman's house or something like that.

So basically, I just don't go over there very much anymore.

Back to what I've learned:  It's hard to have a relationship with someone who thinks you don't love them, feels anger at you for things you have done, and things you haven't.  Everything really is all about her emotions.  She doesn't seem to care about reality.

Today, I made the mistake of texting her:  I don't know what to say, my words don't really matter.

This set her off, and she called me and asked me why I was "giving her hell".

I tried to explain myself, but she wouldn't listen, so she hung up.  I am used to that, so it doesn't bother me.  Most of our phone calls end with her hanging up on me!

So I sent this via text:

"I feel that if I say something and you don't seem to understand my intended meaning and instead assign your own meaning to it, then what I say and my words don't matter.  When I try to clarify my intended meaning and you argue with me about what I meant: Then you really don't care about my intended meaning.  You seem to use the immediate argument over meaning to derail the conversation.  The prevents any true discussion and blocks intimacy."

She doesn't reply to anything like that, because it makes sense and usually she has no response to stuff like that.  She simply ignored it, and texted me later about something else that was on her mind.

Basically, nothing EVER gets resolved.  She still brings up misunderstandings and things that happened 4 years ago and beats me up about it.  I've learned to ignore that stuff, or laugh at it, and say something like:  "That was 4 years ago, what the ?"

I'm still trying to figure it all out.  Basically, I feel that she's a good person, but has a lot of problems.  I know I can't fix any of it, but I thought I could live with it, but...   honestly, I have to get my emotional needs met elsewhere, and she HATES that I have friends, especially that I have female friends whom I call.  That is one of the things she fights with me about the most.

Oh well... .

[Mike-X]

Those sound like BPD behaviors to me. But it also sounds like you have a fairly healthy view of it, depersonalizing and all. Has she been diagnosed? Have you read through any of the lessons on this forum or any books on BPD?

I dealt with a lot of jealous-motivated privacy violations and false accusations about cheating too. Toward the end, I was regularly told how I would be better off with someone else, with particular people often named.

[Trog]

Hey

We all said things we are not proud of, we all tolerated the intolerable and bended our boundaries to breaking point. A few months ago I was in a really bad way beating myself up for the way I had treated her during times of stress.

I think 90% of us could have written this... ."I was wrong to think that if I loved her enough and held on long enough that she would finally see that I loved her and... change her behavior toward me."

You can't change people, these people least of all, they're too screwed up and don't live by the rest of us rules. And if you're not careful and stay too long, you end up living by theirs with 

[downwhim]

I hear you, and I still have my own lingering guilt issues. However, you already said that you recognized your mistakes in the confrontations and apologized. Did you then try to avoid repeating those mistakes? When did you learn about BPD and strategies for dealing with high conflict people?

What did I learn?

So basically, what happened after a while, is that I would steel myself and put up emotional boundaries.  Boundaries that made it impossible for her comments and etc to really hurt.  I mean, they still did hurt, but I just ignored what she was saying as "noise".  I.e. her comments are coming from pain, and she's trying to communicate the best she can.  Now this might just be making excuses, I don't know.  If anything still got through and upset me, I just left.

The thing is, though, then she would blame me for leaving.

We live in separate houses.  She tried to move in once, but that lasted about 3 weeks, and I told her to leave because she was doing all kinds of crazy privacy violating things.  Like going through my trash and looking for receipts so "she could see if I did actually go to Wendy's for lunch like I said".

About separate houses.  The times that I stay at her house became less and less frequent.  I haven't really stayed at her house for about 3 months now.

Here is the common scenerio:

I go to her house after work, we have dinner, watch a show or play a boardgame, then she goes to bed.  I go home.  If I try to stay, then she (because she is mad), won't interact with me at all, or be intimate with me at all.  It has been that way for months.  Of course, I'd really like to have sex, and I don't want to have to ask her for affection, so I don't.  However, I will just lay there in bed, and this will run through my mind: "Why am I even here?  I love her, but she doesn't even treat me nicely."   Anyway, I end up just feeling so bad, I will leave, and THAT really sets her off.  Sometimes she'll get up and cuss me out and tell me I'm a cheater and I'm going over to some other woman's house or something like that.

So basically, I just don't go over there very much anymore.

Back to what I've learned:  It's hard to have a relationship with someone who thinks you don't love them, feels anger at you for things you have done, and things you haven't.  Everything really is all about her emotions.  She doesn't seem to care about reality.

Today, I made the mistake of texting her:  I don't know what to say, my words don't really matter.

This set her off, and she called me and asked me why I was "giving her hell".

I tried to explain myself, but she wouldn't listen, so she hung up.  I am used to that, so it doesn't bother me.  Most of our phone calls end with her hanging up on me!

So I sent this via text:

"I feel that if I say something and you don't seem to understand my intended meaning and instead assign your own meaning to it, then what I say and my words don't matter.  When I try to clarify my intended meaning and you argue with me about what I meant: Then you really don't care about my intended meaning.  You seem to use the immediate argument over meaning to derail the conversation.  The prevents any true discussion and blocks intimacy."

She doesn't reply to anything like that, because it makes sense and usually she has no response to stuff like that.  She simply ignored it, and texted me later about something else that was on her mind.

Basically, nothing EVER gets resolved.  She still brings up misunderstandings and things that happened 4 years ago and beats me up about it.  I've learned to ignore that stuff, or laugh at it, and say something like:  "That was 4 years ago, what the ?"

I'm still trying to figure it all out.  Basically, I feel that she's a good person, but has a lot of problems.  I know I can't fix any of it, but I thought I could live with it, but...   honestly, I have to get my emotional needs met elsewhere, and she HATES that I have friends, especially that I have female friends whom I call.  That is one of the things she fights with me about the most.

Oh well... .

I can relate to all of this! It is amazing when you think about it, here they are a person that you love and you can't:

1.  live with them because it gets to crazy

2.  have sex or be intimate with them because they have cut you off

3.  communicate in a healthy manner and state how you feel

4.  get an apology when they have instilled pain

5.  be accused of cheating or "falling in love" with someone else

6.  awaiting the next blow up instead of looking forward to the future

As my ex's doctor asked me "what are YOU getting out of this relationship?"  Well, I think I get love. But do I really? Isn't this all one sided and now instead of love blooming it is me searching for idealization again and it just doesn't come? Aren't I starting to look like a shadow of myself- less whole? Who the heck am I now or who have I become since I met him?

Here is my analogy about a BPD r/r:  started out a bud in the ground, what I thought was healthy and amazing, a stem grew and reached for the sun as it popped out stretching toward the sun, nothing could be better than he and I, I awaited and looked forward to the beautiful burst of a flower, suddenly and I mean suddenly the stem bent over dug it's way back into the ground and looked more like a stump, a nothing, actually pretty ugly.

As nons, we want our relationship to grow and be healthy and look forward to the future with peace and joy! We want to think positive and hold on to this person that we love so much with hopes that this love will be reciprocated and appreciated. Think about it? What is the reality? Isn't it ok for us to loose it at times because we get so frustrated and confused that we can't put humpty dumpty back together again? Once the devaluing started for me, I knew it was time to get out. Does it hurt? yes, everyday.

[Dutched]

A few yrs before exw blew up that long r/s I discussed the why and effects on me with my Psychologist.

We did not tolerate abusive behaviour. We defended ourselves (speaking for myself: indeed saying words that were hurtful too!) as one was attacked.

Attacked by the one we trusted, loved intensely, were our partners, mother/father of our kid(s)!

How deeply astonished I was, totally overwhelmed and hurt deep into the hart… by the one you love!

So, as he explained, that caused a primitive and natural trigger to defend oneself.

Now the extend of how we respond that is a part of ourselves. Bluntly strike back or trying to find inner balance, even for a moment, and then respond (again ‘mature’ in the heat of that moment, or not).

Further the intensity / severeness and ‘reason’ of the partners attacks must be taken into account.

As experienced. Exw coming home from a family visit. Me in the study working to meet a deadline (which exw knew the importance of). Exw asked me to have a walk in order to clear my mind (valid argument), which I refused, that deadline (my valid argument) 

Reason for exw to explode and to blow up the long r/s in a blink of an eye.

My response was, that If she felt that way, she knows where the door is… and went on with my work.

An attack but perceived by me as too ridiculous (later, the outburst became clear…, some remarks during that family visit were to emotionally close) 

Many, many quotes on the Board can be found that as severe and direct attacks that blow us off.

Then the response can be a counter attack, fully justified as a reflex respond to defend in a sense.

Better to be to ask, why did we endure that much?   

   We were there as the ones trusted, loved and needed.

[nowwhatz]

Rg,

As someone who is currently beating himself up I can relate to what you are going through.

I really like what clydegriffith posted :When i was in Therapy, my T asked me if i blamed myself for any part of what the nightmare that had happened and i gave him a profound "f-no, everything was her fault!". He said that it was good i had this frame of my mind as a lot of his patients often blame themselves.

You know, when I was in therapy I was told something similar.

As far as apologies I have seen performances from my exgf that deserve multiple Best Dramatic Actress Awards... .from Univision!... .if only there was truly acting going on. This BPDgf was not acting... .as she never did during the twisted r/s.

During these apologies I could never really get the exgf  to name any specifics... .only that she had hurt me.

If there is anybody on this board who deserves to beat himself up it is me. I was warned by members here during the beginning of the recycles and had prior knowledge of BPD throughout most of them.  This weekend has been an almost constant struggle and I don't know what to do.  I trust that time will help make this feeling go away as it has in the past. I am confident you will feel better as time goes on.

I don't want to be the victim here and certainly I did many things I am not proud and my feeling is I will probably do a couple of more things out of pain, that I won't be proud of... .but I am human.

These people refuse to get help and cause damage to all who care about them. If anyone, anywhere, anyplace  cares for one they are guaranteed to get hurt in some way. If someone loves one of them in a romantic r/s God help them please.    I am almost at my breaking point and am asking God for help.

Well brother I just want you to know you are not alone.