Another settlement offer

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Beside asking for 62% of marital asserts... .

In lieu of asking for spousal support , h is asking that he has no obligation to child support ever to me.

And I am to pay his arrages .

And when if there becomes a change in primary custody , h can still ask for child support from me.

what the heck.

Division of marital assets has now added , by h, spousal support, child support and the hint of what is to come if I dont agree... .custody issues again.

I noticed that for the last few weeks I was receiving the same amount of support on the same day of the week. H doesn't do that ... .be consistent .  So I'm thinking he is getting unemployment and the state is taking the child support out for him. That has to really make h happy.

I'm paying medical insurance now because he decided not to. Yet I'm refered to as the greedy one.

There's emails from h , I didn't want to look .

New PA going on which  scares me the most.

H and S going out on one of his days , At first they said D needs to go somewhere. ( with me I thought ) Now that has changed to his family having an activity. So now she said she doesn't want to be with me and wants  to go to his family.  Breaks my heart, and it was a thought of tactic to keep her from me, the in laws would stone me if they could.

This is just surreal.

[whirlpoollife]

Beside asking for 62% of marital asserts... .

In lieu of asking for spousal support , h is asking that he has no obligation to child support ever to me.

And I am to pay his arrages .

And when if there becomes a change in primary custody , h can still ask for child support from me.

what the heck.

Division of marital assets has now added , by h, spousal support, child support and the hint of what is to come if I dont agree... .custody issues again.

I noticed that for the last few weeks I was receiving the same amount of support on the same day of the week. H doesn't do that ... .be consistent .  So I'm thinking he is getting unemployment and the state is taking the child support out for him. That has to really make h happy.

I'm paying medical insurance now because he decided not to. Yet I'm refered to as the greedy one.

There's emails from h , I didn't want to look .

New PA going on which  scares me the most.

H and S going out on one of his days , At first they said D needs to go somewhere. ( with me I thought ) Now that has changed to his family having an activity. So now she said she doesn't want to be with me and wants  to go to his family.  Breaks my heart, and it was a thought of tactic to keep her from me, the in laws would stone me if they could.

This is just surreal.

[maxen]

what has your L to say about this?

[ForeverDad]

Probably written before... .Your ex's offers are so far beyond realistic that (1) a reasonable settlement may only come at the very last moment literally or (2) you will do best to tell the judge a settlement is impossible due to stbEx's delays, obstructions and unreasonable offers and the judge will have to rule on the issues.

No guarantees of course, but you're likely to get a better outcome from the judge than you'll ever get from the stbEx, after all, in his perceptions he has nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Judges prefer settlements.  Most cases do end in settlements, even ours.   But beware of being pressured or threatened into a poor settlement.  A judge's decision is almost always better than what an entitled ex demands in settlement.  Yes, the judge may sternly warn, "Settling is better because neither of you will like my decision."  But what would you prefer, an outcome where you both are unhappy or one where you're the only one unhappy?  Remember, you are never stuck, you always have the final option, telling the judge a settlement is impossible due to stbEx's delays, obstructions and unreasonable offers and the judge will have to rule on the issues.

So, relax.  Really, this is just yet another unreasonable offer.  Did you expect anything different?  As difficult as it is to accomplish, let its emotional impact on you be like water rolling off a duck's back.

[whirlpoollife]

Spoke with asset L, other is for custody , I did not speak with with him on this particular issue.

Asking Asset L , on h showing that he is wanting primary, he asked me, what benefit would that be for the children.

For me, if this becomes a reality, and not another scare tatic, I have documentation from past , tedious but I kept up with most of it, and current issues (vehicle purchase) which h got this vehicle for S so S would now rather be where vehicle is. So it can show that S can be easlily coerced to wanting to be at dads more.


For support, my L advised my thoughts, that we will not deal with support with this matter.

He said we are taking our chances to go to support conferance. I said I am much more comfortable with state calulated outcome than one that I am pressured/ blackmailed into from h.

There was no mention of medical insurances and expenses so what does the offer of no more child support mean?  Too vague for me.

There has to be something to let h have his win. I am hoping agreeing to his 62% vs. our 60% ( that 60 was with no support) lets him feel his win. Otherwise it will cost more to fight that, and most likely I will be needing that money for once again, custody. They are old enough to say what they want.  But they  were fine a couple months ago with everything.  I feel h knows that if h can't get back at me with money , then he goes for using the kids.


Relax... .I am trying , I have gone through my list of dealing with anxiety.  This poor duck is just going through another storm.

[livednlearned]

My narcissistic dad used very subtle forms of manipulation to undermine my mom. I can see it now. We all treated her like the punching bag, and I was not kind to her for many decades. At a key moment in our relationship, my dad threw her under the bus. It wasn't until in therapy my T helped me see it. Parental alienation can happen even in families with both parents together, I can now understand. I've healed my relationship with my mom, and that made my dad reject me.   

I hope you find a way to keep your kids close -- enough that they listen and keep open hearts. These dynamics are tricky. A really good T can help so much -- they see/hear things in our retelling that go over our heads. Now, it is so clear. Before, I was in a thick dense fog. You could point out a tidal wave bearing down on me and I wouldn't notice. 

[whirlpoollife]

Thank you lnl

The current custody is approx 57/43 , me being the 57. 

H might be using the his wanting primary and asking support from me as a scare tatic, or he would love to have primary just so I pay him support.   I don't think that would happen because my earning capacity and earnings are lower.

Kids being teens can say where they want to live. No matter what evidence and documentation I have to support that h should not be primary it's comes down to what they say. GAL leans towards h.

So maybe I offer this... .no child support from either parent. Except for 50/50 medical. (Long shot).

I might save more this way by not paying court costs to fight to keep the current  custody and constantly fight to get the support he owes.

And if there is no c/s in either direction then he would not have any incentive for more time with kids.  It would be a cost  to me but I would be done with him ... in court only.

When it's 50/50 custody how does the support work? Is there no support in either direction ? Who pays medical ? Does it ever get reimbursed?

I am not thinking of giving h 50/50 but comparing it to the idea above.

[livednlearned]

Interesting proposal!

Where I live, CS is not calculated quite so closely to custody or visitation. There is a cap, I think. When I got full custody and visitation, CS did not go up.

What's interesting about your proposal is that you could make the argument that you do not want to spend time in court for the next several years squabbling over money, taking up the court's precious time (what they care about), and so want to offer this as a way to get out of the legal system's hair. That means putting together a timeline to show how much conflict has occurred over what should be a very clean divorce case. Conflict includes: stonewalling, obstructing, false allegations, parental alienation, angry emails, rejected settlement offers, continuances, hearings, and just the sheer amount of time it has taken to get a divorce.

If you show up as the grown up in a room full of grown ups, it can go a really long way. I know you've been doing this -- keep doing what you're doing. I'm just wondering if court will hear your offer as a like-minded grown-up in the way they think, which is to cut a decent deal where no one is really happy, and send people on their way. The clincher is that you offer something to keep you and ex out of court. They'll like that!

I'm guessing that you will stick to your guns about the inheritance, making sure that he does not touch that. "In the interests of minimizing ongoing conflict and using court to settle minor disputes, my client proposes to give H a percentage of inheritance equal to the amount he owes in medical and past child support. He can make no further claims on this. My client also proposes that neither party pays child support, without making any changes to custody. If either party files to change custody, then CS is back on the table."

Something like that?

[whirlpoollife]

I went over this with my L. He had sent a counter offer to me to review and wouldn't send it till he he had my approval.  He sent it .  I had emailed at the same time my idea of this counter offer.

We went over it. I think my L doesn't want to loose a paying client.

He feels it just a lack of self esteem on my part that if the kids say they rather live with dad I coudnt handle it.  Omg.  I had to explain that it is h who is /will make the kids want to be with him more just so he can get support from me and make himself happy that he hurt me by doing this!   And if I take away that incentive , he won't do it.

L... .no I think it's your self esteem. 

I said if this is final and h cannot get support from me, and kids say they want to be with h, then so be it, that would be coming from the kids, not h.

Well then if they do that then you should pay h support.

He then argued that no judge would approve this anyhow, who's to say I don't run off with someone else spend all the money and nothing left for kids. ... .huh ? what ? 

Lnl, I said to L too what could be said to the judge, I used the words of explaining the conflict that you had suggested. That by my giving up support could keep us out of court. 

I thought that was great, but L dismissed it. 

All along I have been asking my L to go after H's business too. He would not ,saying it is not worth anything, I would half to pay for the valuation etc. 

Now as we are nearing the end, my L says oh we need to look into his business, which was part of the counter offer (the one just now that I did not approve, but got sent ).

Maybe L did this on purpose , with his own strategy idk.

I see it as L dragging this  divorce out.

I bet if I was flat broke , my L would have ended this along time ago.

[ForeverDad]

Your lawyer can't be that dense that he can't see the repercussions of giving ex a reason to manipulate the kids, can he?  I get the feeling he's not measuring up to what you need.  And sending out an offer when he knew you would want to review it first is just, IDK, Narcissistic... .like I'm the lawyer, I know what's best for you better than you?

I'm thinking he still doesn't get it and is just not as assertive and proactive as is needed, or at least dealing with it piecemeal and not as a unified and cohesive group of strategy.  Are you pondering whether to find one who has his/her act together?

On the other hand, I have heard that some courts, even some state laws, won't let child support be negotiated away.  So he may be right, belatedly, about that.

[whirlpoollife]

No not he's not narcistic like h,  he doesn't get it.  He has a great marriage and no children.

A year ago I thought of changing, but was also let on that this was almost done. So why spend more to change... .I have spent more by staying. So idk.

My custody L is in the same law firm.  He is finally seeing who h is. So if I change L's I loose him then.

A year ago I thought of it changing , but then thought why when this is almost done. 

Maybe I go back to, not that anyone will agree, to leave marital asset division seperate from support .

Go to support conference and let support dept determine support. 

It opens the door though to let h go for more custody.  And it happens it happens .

[ForeverDad]

If the custody L finally 'gets it', will L listen to the custody L or can another more experienced lawyer in the firm step in?  Your L needs to be your resourceful asset and beacon of guidance, not glue-covered boots.

[whirlpoollife]

So I did ask L to ask custody L what he thinks. Waiting to hear. I think h and his L knew what buttons to push . ... .she's not caving... .so let's use the kids / custody . It worked .   

Long story short, my L quickly offered the other side of me forgoing child support, as part of settlement.

I felt that was a big comprimise, other  L latched on to it immediately  but... .didn't accept it because they wanted me to also pay h's 6k in back support he owes me... .which I said no. More  than half of that is medical / dental I had already paid so it's reimbursement support.

So now , I'm preparing documents to meet with L to prepare for an actual trial, no conferences.

I'm going to spend 6k on L 's fees but giving up c/s and a reduction in medical expenses ( which we all know will never get reimbursed) was already too much compromising on my my part, along with more than half of marital assets.

Not only documents do I need to prepare, but also my mind.

[ForeverDad]

Two features of offers and counteroffers... .

• Don't counter your own offer when the other person doesn't respond



• Set time frames and expirations on your offers so it will lessen the leverage when the ex tries to add more and more conditions

What is offered can and probably should be withdrawn if not accepted.

Remember how to cook a frog in a pot of water?  Drop it into hot water and it'll hop out.  It's said that if you put it in water it will stay as you heat it up.  Understand the emotional pull that the creeping demands in the bait of offer.  Each time they want a little more and you are emotionally pressured to accept it as only a little more each time... .when you had likely rejected the original overreaching demands.

[whirlpoollife]

When I said no to their offer of me forgiving the arrages , my L wanted to why... .to present it to the other side. That I just can't say no.  So I sent email to L, ( much cheaper that talking to him). And showed the pattern of the offers. Each time... .was never enough. One more add on each time.  Plus the other kept using  the percentage # they wanted in marital assets, like if I saw it so many times, then that is the number I essentially go with.

My L said we are back to square one.

Remember how to cook a frog in a pot of water?  Drop it into hot water and it'll hop out.  It's said that if you put it in water it will stay as you heat it up.  Understand the emotional pull that the creeping demands in the bait of offer.  Each time they want a little more and you are emotionally pressured to accept it as only a little more each time... .when you had likely rejected the original overreaching demands.

That is  it. 

[GaGrl]

Have you had an in-person meeting or conference call with the two Ls, so that you can discuss the overall strategy?  It sounds as if you are doing too much going back and forth between them.

[whirlpoollife]

In way yes, there was a conferance before a divorce master.

At that conferance /hearing I thought it was a division of assets but the opposing side said I owe spousal support beside the rest.  I said no to that because I had five minutes to decide . And that was new to me.  If it was just marital asset alone, I would of said yes to their percentage , more than half, be done. 

I am pressured today to settle and say yes to that spousal support .    I'm saying to both L, that if  I owe it , then why are they both trying to keep me out of the support hearing (  that was originally  seperate and was wanted by h to modify support).  If I do owe him support, most likely , yes., I may not receive future child support.  So why not the support dept tell me that?

Plus h owes back support.

I don't know his income.

My L says if kids want to go live with their dad , which they can say so at anytime and at their age I cannot do anything about it,  then I owe h c/s.

Ok, my income is a third of his.

there is medical insurance that I am paying and it needs a calculation on the percentage of who owes what to whom.   I'd prefer a state calculation on that vs . the opposing L.