Definitely leaving

[Danie14]

Just got a facebook message from a man (father of three) who told me he found messages from my husband to his girlfriend on the phone. Nasty sexual messages. This is the girl he cheated on me with years ago. The one who he just friended on facebook recently.

So now the only thing to do is make him leave my house. It's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be easy. But it's going to happen. He will be gone from my house by Sunday and he will be gone from my life thereafter.

I'm straight pissed.

This is the thing…where I’m at…and I’m all over the place but I seem to keep coming back to this…

Why won’t he just leave? When I tell him to leave and he refuses or says he loves me…and he’s messing around with this chick behind my back?

Why work so hard to make me believe again and again…and again…and actually be lying the whole time? Why when he doesn’t believe himself? Jeezzz….

Why….so many whys that I’ll never understand I’ll never know….

God I feel so F'ing stupid.

[tjay933]

I'm sorry you are where you are right now. I feel for you.

Straight up-YOU ARE NOT STUPID!

Why won’t he just leave?

because there is something in it for him. plain and simple.

Why work so hard to make me believe again and again…and again…and actually be lying the whole time? Why when he doesn’t believe himself? Jeezzz….

fear of abandonment.

I am glad that you sound like your head is on straight and you can clearly see through his FOG.

Stay strong and stay safe. 

[Mutt]

Hi Danie14,

I'm sorry your going through this  Don't be hard on yourself.

Why….so many whys that I’ll never understand I’ll never know….

You feel all over the place. The news is upsetting.

You trusted him.

The why's will come later.

[newlifeBPDfree]

I'm so sorry you are going through this. It's really difficult to be confronted with facts like this.

Your situation resembles mine. My ex husband cheated on me a lot thoughout our 9 year marriage but the final nail to the coffin of our marriage was his last affair that lasted 8 months and everyone including me knew about it but he still claimed he loved me and would not leave me and wanted to make it work... .It's not easy but you need to be consistent, you need to stick to your values and believe in yourself. My ex made me doubt myself and my beliefs so much. I kept taking him back in, even after our divorce, which resulted in everything backfiring on me and creating so much more problems for me.

[Danie14]

thank you. I'm just so angry and so hurt... .and feel like dang it I knew better... .scorched Earth anyone? There's tons here where I'm sitting. grrrr... .

I've always put everyone else first... .I've always put HIM FIRST and that's stops. it's got to stop now. It all ends now. I'm done-done-done... .and this isn't going to be a surpise to him. last time he cheated I told him that I would NEVER EVER EVER EVER... .ever... .go thru this f'ing ___ again. never. he knows he knows and he KNOWS... .just where my line is and he crossed it.

Sure I've given him plenty of chances... .probably way too many chances... .but no more. He knows damn it. and he crossed the line he was not to cross again. I told him strait and he must have f'ing forgot or something... .

have me running around like a f'ing fool? really? Have me all emotional and crying wanting to "save" this sham of a marriage... .f all that right to you know where... .yes I'm straight pissed... .and venting thank you very much... .like what? like I'm poring my f'ing heart out to this ass and he's what? eating that ___ up like it's cake... .nope. Done. totally done now he's getting the ice queen from here on out. He gets NO MORE EMOTION from me at all. he eats that up like he's starving. No more. he's just smoke. nothing more. I'm done.

[newlifeBPDfree]

Danie14, your post reads just like something i would write.

I too have given him a lot of chances. I too have been disaapointed and fooled. I too always put myself last... .

Hang in there! Do something nice for you. Put yourself first.

[Danie14]

I talked to him last night, it wasn't the drag out yelling that I'd expected. He denied. but I don't really believe him. not really. he said 'I promise you... .' and I told him he's promised me before, promised lots of things... .long story... .I have no physical proof and this guy who told me could very well be telling tales to get his girlfriend in trouble with me. Some things... .small details... .don't add up in my head but those are small insignificant details that probably don't mean anything.

This morning he asked me if I want him to leave, I said I don't know... .just because I'd like him to wait until after our son graduates in two months... .he said he can't wait that long it's not fair to him... ... ..& I said it's not fair to me either... .& of course I got crickets from him... .nothing... .

last night he stood at the window with his back to me most of the time I was talking to him... telling him what I had to say... .he tried arguing with me a bit, I wasn't arguing with him... .but he wanted to... .I told him just because I don't accept his reasons doesn't mean I'm arguing with him. He was trying to tell me that the reason he friended that girl on facebook was because I'm friends with my ex's on facebook. wth? really, I have three ex's in my life... .I'm friends with two of them... .and they were my ex's way before I met him (and I told him this)... .whatever.

I don't know what to expect on my arrival home from work. I spoke with my boss today and let her know what I'm dealing with, just in case.I also talked to a couple of friends about it too... .just because I was about to burst.

I'd like to send this message to that girl but an very unsure if I should... .on the one hand, I'm one to want to get to the bottom of things... .but on the other hand I just don't want or need more drama in my life

“I wouldn’t normally do this but I don’t want to just ignore and pretend either so I figured I’d be direct. I want to know what’s going on with you and my husband. Maybe nothing, maybe something. I don’t know. I’d like to hear what you have to say. I’ve heard what your boyfriend had to say, I’ve heard what my husband had to say, so now, if you are so inclined, I’d like to hear what you have to say. I’m not interested in a long discussion, and I will not contact you again regarding this matter. If you choose not the respond I will accept that at face value. And just so you know I have no ill will towards you at all, I’ve laid that to rest a long time ago.”

The thing is, tho, is that I think she's a BPD as well... .not sure but the past experience was pretty crazy with this one.

Thoughts?

[Mutt]

I have no physical proof and this guy who told me could very well be telling tales to get his girlfriend in trouble with me. Some things... .small details... .don't add up in my head but those are small insignificant details that probably don't mean anything.

He was trying to tell me that the reason he friended that girl on facebook was because I'm friends with my ex's on facebook. wth?

What does your intuition tell you?

[Danie14]

it says 'bullspit' loud and clear.

I told him last night it wasn't about the girl or the messages... .it came down to that doubt I have inside of me. I comes down the fact that when I received any type of message like this I *should* be able to say Heck no, no way... .and really believe that... but that's not the case... .

[Mutt]

Trust your gut.

It's going to trigger shame and guilt and he'll project, blame.

You may make things harder if you approach her, he might rage?

What's your boundary?

I suggest decide what your going to do before you ask her.

[WhatTheFrank]

Where there's smoke, there's fire.  You said the other woman's boyfriend could by trying to get her in trouble with you.  What does he have to gain in making it up?

[Danie14]

Well, here where I live it's not that uncommon to hear of people physically fighting. I don't know him, not really, but we have a small community so I know of him and what he's been about (used to date a friend of mine)... .and of course I know a bit about her, just because of past experience. What he'd have to gain is have me on the hunt for her to beat her up. Which isn't the type of person I am at all.

Other than that... .who knows why people start drama.

[Mutt]

Which isn't the type of person I am at all.

Other than that... .who knows why people start drama.

I think he's dissociating; altering reality to mask his feelings "the reason he friended that girl on facebook was because I'm friends with my ex's on facebook. wth"

I find what helps is not creating a drama triangle and move to the center.

What that means is not reacting to either polarized sides with her boyfriend and yours that makes 3 people , a drama triangle.



I think what the bigger is; is if you're done.

[Danie14]

I find what helps is not creating a drama triangle and move to the center.

What that means is not reacting to either polarized sides with her boyfriend and yours that makes 3 people , a drama triangle.

I don't quite understand this, can you explain further?

Yes, I'm done. And still waiting. timing is important. , am I still trying to manage the situation? yes, but why? For the well being of my son.

[Mutt]

Yes, I'm done. And still waiting. timing is important. , am I still trying to manage the situation? yes, but why? For the well being of my son.

It means not creating drama and making a difficult situation worse - more manageable.

There's no gain talking to her boyfriend. Your boyfriend is likely going to dissociate and won't come clean because it triggers feelings of low self worth, shame and guilt that he's going to project.

Maladaptive coping mechanisms that protect him from pain.  I understand your anger and it's justifiable with his actions, an option vent here.

If you take the bull by the horns ( the disorder ) with anger, it's not going to make a bad situation better.

A choice is to exit the r/s quietly.

[Danie14]

Ok so I decided not to contact her. I figure that no good can come of that, not really... .in my head and heart it's all a repeat of the past. This is EXACTLY (almost) what happened 10 yrs ago. Back then I did contact her, went right to her place and talked to her... .she *promised* me that nothing was going on... .and even gave me a hug after our talk.   then directly contacted my husband and told him... .who knows what... .and things got worse between him and I. So, no... .I don't see any sort of good coming out of contacting her.

But now... .now he's talking suicide. Not actually *talking* but... .well, he put a facebook post about suicide today... .I'm copying it here so you can read it... .I would say that yes this is a suicide threat... .

“It’s entirely my own fault, and only my own lack of willpower and strength of mind is to blame.”

SUICIDE

Typically when a women attempts suicide 22% it is often closer to a cry for help. Men on the other hand “when he makes a suicide attempt, he doesn’t want anyone to hear it, he wants to succeed”. He compares the action to a soldier “seeking an honorable death”. 78% of successful suicides are by men. So in essence men are 3 times more likely to die by suicide than women. Men aged 45-59 account for 25% of all these suicides. “I was surprised to hear, very surprised, because when I last talked to him, he was happy,” are words heard by friends and families after the suicide. “But somebody told me it’s like that sometimes. They feel better because they know they are going to die.” Men know in their gut that they are on their own if they have issues or face troubling times. A quick look at the U.S. family court system, divorce industry, state of relationships and pop culture trends points toward this "too bad so sad" attitude for men. So Sorry Is life really a dead end, Maybe.

Scared our daughter (whos away at college) so much that she called me and wanted to know what's going on... .if everything's ok. I was out of cell service (one of the many joys of living in rural America) so didn't get her message until just a bit ago.

I'm upset. really upset. how dare he mess with her like that. and yes I know its a cry for help... .I feel like a horrible person... .for not being upset for him but because of him... .yes, i'm worried about him, too... .what the hell am I supposed to do? what... .if I call the cops... .well he's friends with all of them so who's word are they going to take? then I look like i'm just messing with him... .if I do nothing and he attempts then I'm heartless... .I don't want to talk to him about it because it's a f'ing emotional black hole that idk if i'll ever escape from... .

i'm running on empty here... .

[Mutt]

i'm running on empty here... .

I'm sorry you and your D are going through this.

Does he have guns, pills?

Follow the link for helpful information TOOLS: Dealing with threats of Suicide and Suicide Attempts

This Workshop will discuss the problem of threats of suicide, suicide ideation and attempts in those with BPD.

The bpdfamily protocol for suicidal ideation is outlined here:

https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm

How To Be Helpful to Someone Who Is Threatening Suicide

• Be direct. Talk openly and matter-of-factly about suicide.



• Be willing to listen. Allow expressions of feelings. Accept the feelings.



• Be non-judgmental. Don't debate whether suicide is right or wrong, or whether feelings are good or bad. Don't lecture on the value of life.



• Get involved. Become available. Show interest and support.



• Don't dare him or her to do it.



• Don't act shocked. This will put distance between you.



• Don't be sworn to secrecy. Seek support.



• Offer hope that alternatives are available but do not offer glib reassurance.



• Take action. Remove means, such as guns or stockpiled pills.



• Get help from persons or agencies specializing in crisis intervention and suicide prevention.

www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org

   

[Danie14]

yes, way up north here and we have lots of rifles for hunting and one handgun for fun. No pills... .except Tylenol and ibuprofen... .over the counter stuff. And yes, I know this is dangerous too as I just had a close friends daughter od on Tylenol last month... .

I feel very very stuck. I DON'T want to support him or be there for him or any of that because if I do then he thinks everythings ok and trys to go back to status quo... .like nothing happened... .if I don't talk to him and don't reassure him... .then I get this... .worried about him and how this f'ing stuff affects our kids... .

He's holding on to me. I understand that. Things are really-real here and he knows it. There's no more sweeping this stuff under the rug... .he knows where I stand... .and that's freaking him out. and I get this mess... .

[Mutt]

I'm sorry you feel very stuck

back to status quo

No doubt it's real for you.

He's friends with the cops.

It helps to talk to a compassionate, skilled person on the phone

Can I get you to give the number a call?

www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/ 1-800-273-TALK (8255)

[Turkish]

Hello Danae14,

I'm sorry that after all the pain he caused, he's causing even more, in some weird, waifish attempt for you (or someone else) to rescue him. I think you have every right to be disturbed, and also angry. And I wonder why your daughter didn't call her father directly?

Yet, he is the father of your child. It's hard to ignore a cry for help like that. Calling the number that Mutt posted may be a good call to get support. I can speak as a man, but I don't want to speak for your H or what's possibly going through his head, as I can't really know, so I'm not going to assume. The people on the hotline have probably encountered situations that we would have a hard time dreaming up. Please continue to let us know what's going on and how you are doing.

Turkish

[jhkbuzz]

Just got a facebook message from a man (father of three) who told me he found messages from my husband to his girlfriend on the phone. Nasty sexual messages. This is the girl he cheated on me with years ago. The one who he just friended on facebook recently.

So now the only thing to do is make him leave my house. It's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be easy. But it's going to happen. He will be gone from my house by Sunday and he will be gone from my life thereafter.

I'm straight pissed.

This is the thing…where I’m at…and I’m all over the place but I seem to keep coming back to this…

Why won’t he just leave? When I tell him to leave and he refuses or says he loves me…and he’s messing around with this chick behind my back?

Why work so hard to make me believe again and again…and again…and actually be lying the whole time? Why when he doesn’t believe himself? Jeezzz….

Why….so many whys that I’ll never understand I’ll never know….

God I feel so F'ing stupid.

First:  don't feel stupid.  His behavior is a reflection of HIS character and HIS lack of morals - it says nothing about your worth as a human being.

Second: I obviously don't know anything about your r/s dynamics, but

Third:  What I bolded in your post made my head spin in my own r/s for a year or two.

This is what I finally came to realize, MONTHS after the r/s ended (she repeatedly lied and cheated as well).

Our r/s was highly charged and intoxicating in the beginning... .very sexual, very intense, and we both fell in love.  But over time I somehow became a parent figure to her.  After our r/s began deteriorating she lied and cheated to get her needs met but wanted the safety and security of our r/s.  She knew I loved her and was good at meeting her needs and didn't want to give that up. If she ever attempts to recycle it will be for that reason and no other.

I misunderstood NEED for LOVE.  I thought because she needed me and didn't want to leave that she LOVED me - loved me in the healthy, adult, actionable sense of the word.

I was wrong.  I wish I had figured it out sooner.

[going places]

Just got a facebook message from a man (father of three) who told me he found messages from my husband to his girlfriend on the phone. Nasty sexual messages. This is the girl he cheated on me with years ago. The one who he just friended on facebook recently.

So now the only thing to do is make him leave my house. It's not going to be pretty. It's not going to be easy. But it's going to happen. He will be gone from my house by Sunday and he will be gone from my life thereafter.

I'm straight pissed.

BTDT

This is the thing…where I’m at…and I’m all over the place but I seem to keep coming back to this…

Why won’t he just leave? When I tell him to leave and he refuses or says he loves me…and he’s messing around with this chick behind my back?

He wants his cake and eat it too.

He doesn't want anyone to know who he REALLY is; keeping up the facade.

Why work so hard to make me believe again and again…and again…and actually be lying the whole time? Why when he doesn’t believe himself? Jeezzz….

He has no concept of love. He has no idea what true love is.

He is driven by his 'feelings and emotions' and his... .you know what.

He has to lie to keep up the image.

Why….so many whys that I’ll never understand I’ll never know….

God I feel so F'ing stupid.

1. You are not stupid. He is a manipulator.

2. YOU are trusting. He is a liar.

3. You will never know the answer to the why's. Stop trying to make it make sense and you will save yourself from so much heartache and misery.

4. You are not stupid. He is a manipulator.

[Danie14]

Thank you all... .it means a lot to me that you all "get it"

I'm having a hard time. He's all lovey being so super sickingly sweet... .& I'm not buying it at all... .im a hot mess... .I don't think I can wait like I had planned. I'm so very sorry to my boy... .but I just don't think I can do it... .& what if my H does try to kill himself? I know it's a treat to keep me stuck here... .or maybe it's a real threat... .either way I can't let him manipulate me into sweeping it under the rug...

I hacked into his Facebook acc & read that message she sent him... .the last message... ."I hope she didn't read our mess u don't need that thank u for the help" I saw her name searched on our home computer many times in the history... .& after I confronted him about this mess.

I'm hurt but not really. Im angry but not really. Ambivalent

[jhkbuzz]

Thank you all... .it means a lot to me that you all "get it"

I'm having a hard time. He's all lovey being so super sickingly sweet... .& I'm not buying it at all... .im a hot mess... .I don't think I can wait like I had planned. I'm so very sorry to my boy... .but I just don't think I can do it... .& what if my H does try to kill himself? I know it's a treat to keep me stuck here... .or maybe it's a real threat... .either way I can't let him manipulate me into sweeping it under the rug...

I hacked into his Facebook acc & read that message she sent him... .the last message... ."I hope she didn't read our mess u don't need that thank u for the help" I saw her name searched on our home computer many times in the history... .& after I confronted him about this mess.

I'm hurt but not really. Im angry but not really. Ambivalent

I've seen this advice repeated to partners of those with BPD, and you may need to hear it today:

"We often cling to the positive words and promises that were voiced and ignore or minimalize the negative actions. “But she said she would love me forever” Many wonderful and expressive things may have been said during the course of the relationship, but people suffering with BPD traits are dreamers, they can be fickle, and they over-express emotions like young children – often with little thought for long term implications. You must let go of the words. It may break your heart to do so. But the fact is, the actions - all of them - are the truth."

https://bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

[Danie14]

This is awful.

I feel like I'm betraying myself because I want to believe him... .why? what the hell is wrong with me?

Actions vs. words

His actions led us HERE again... .

[jhkbuzz]

This is awful.

I feel like I'm betraying myself because I want to believe him... .why? what the hell is wrong with me?

Actions vs. words

His actions led us HERE again... .

You are betraying yourself... .but many of us have been there, so we have your back.

It is very, very hard to love someone (and to have, at least for a time) deeply believed that they loved you - and then try to reconcile THOSE thoughts with the understanding that this person is habitually lying to you and cheating on you.

It almost split my own head in two.

This is the thing: he is lying. You know he's lying. You also know nothing will change.

Can you live with it?  Many women have made the choice to stay with unfaithful men.  Can you?

If so, figure out how to make it work for you.  If not, figure out how to get out.  Because the pain that you think can't get any worse, will.

I am 7 months post b/u with a partner who chronically lied and cheated and she STILL had to be the one to exit.  It still upsets me to think about it.  But I thank God now that it happened, however it had to happen.  It's done, my life is peaceful, and I am gaining clarity that I NEVER would have had if I had stayed in a r/s with her.

[Danie14]

Can you live with it?  Many women have made the choice to stay with unfaithful men.  Can you?

No, I can't live with it... .well, that's not exactly accurate, I could live with it... .I CAN do anything I want... .I don't want to live with it. I don't want to live with it.

Now, I'm not sure what to do at the moment. He's talking suicide. I'm thinking of talking to his sister and letting her know what's going on and that he needs someone to help him. That I can't be the one to help him.

This will take time. I want to kick him out NOW and I want him gone already... .but I'm not a heartless person and just cannot put him out without having someone in line to catch him... .yea, co-defendant much? yes and yes.

Also... .and this may sound crazy... .but it feels like I'm choosing between myself and my own well being and my children and their well being. I'm putting myself above my kids. crazy huh?

[jhkbuzz]

Can you live with it?  Many women have made the choice to stay with unfaithful men.  Can you?

No, I can't live with it... .well, that's not exactly accurate, I could live with it... .I CAN do anything I want... .I don't want to live with it. I don't want to live with it.

Okay, then - there it is.  I couldn't live with it either. Even though my ex made a quicker decision to exit, I also know I would have come to the same decision - I hated living with someone I couldn't trust and I never would have been intimate with her again.

Now, I'm not sure what to do at the moment. He's talking suicide. I'm thinking of talking to his sister and letting her know what's going on and that he needs someone to help him. That I can't be the one to help him.

Have you checked out any of the resources you were provided with earlier?  I hope you have... .

This is the truth: you don't hold power over his life - only he can (and will) make that decision.  What you might want to do is de-escalate and stall while you make a plan. ("I can't make a decision right now... .maybe I need to see a therapist to talk this out... .etc."  Stall him, don't make any promises about the future, and start making a plan. And talk to his sister if you think it will help.

This will take time. I want to kick him out NOW and I want him gone already... .but I'm not a heartless person and just cannot put him out without having someone in line to catch him... .yea, co-defendant much? yes and yes.

Yes, it will absolutely take time and that's why you need a plan and people who love you who can help execute the plan.  The truth is, you can't legally kick him out NOW - unless you can file charges for some reason (or have him committed... .hmmmm... .). It will take time and you do need a plan.

Also... .and this may sound crazy... .but it feels like I'm choosing between myself and my own well being and my children and their well being. I'm putting myself above my kids. crazy huh?

I didn't really understand that ^^^ If you mean that you think that your kids would be better off if you stayed in this chaos then you're not thinking clearly.

[Danie14]

His sister ran the domestic abuse shelter here and is training in helping those in crisis. He's in crisis now. He's talking suicide one minute and long-term family plans the next minute. He's the father of my children and our kids love him. I can't just throw him away in a cruel way because if he hurts himself it will hurt my children. They are my priority. Even above myself.

My son's graduating HS in less than 3 months. My daughter's stressing over her college/bills etc. Now, is not the time to rock their worlds. I'm a strong person and can deal a bit longer, until their stresses are less. I know it's going to hurt them either way but at least they'll have less on their plates then... .that's what I mean about choosing between them and me... .I'd gladly kick him to the curb yesterday... .but for those children.

So atm I choose to deal with this mess, shoulder the burden, and keep on keeping on... .and just because I choose this now doesn't mean I'll choose this tomorrow.

[tjay933]

just because I choose this now doesn't mean I'll choose this tomorrow.

good perspective.