Introduction - MIL with BPD AAAHHHGG

[Depression = 72% of members]

I’ve been lurking for quite a while and finally feel I should post an introduction. I also seek some advice.  I’ve learned a lot already from reading the articles and the posts from others.  My situation is a little unique.  I have a MIL who I believe is BPD. I also work for her and have for 10 years. 

Ever since I’ve known her I’ve been mystified by her behavior.  She is very high functioning with her own successful business.  At first I just thought it me that wasn’t up to speed.  I thought that I was just missing an important piece that would make things make sense when her behavior was erratic.  Perhaps she is ADD as well and who knows what else but the BPD fits many of her behaviors.

Need for Validation:  I learned early on that she just wanted me (and anyone else) to agree with her.  She constantly seeks validation for even the silliest things like that a certain frozen dinner is really good or that she bought the most amazing citrus juicer on the planet.  I’m still taken aback by her enthusiasm over silly little things. But this kind of thing is annoying but easy to brush off and give her what she needs

Then there are the bigger things…like political opinions, slights (imagined or not) from friends or family, and big life decisions.  She demands agreement and when I don’t agree and I’ve stood up and spoke my opinion, no matter how hard I try to frame it diplomatically, it doesn’t go down well. The conversation is over, she leaves the room and she ends up telling me she is sorry she ever brought it up to me.

Splitting (as I understand it): She has burned more bridges than I have ever built.  Many friends and colleagues have been given her typical nasty/condescending email (it’s never done in person) and a boot out the door.  Both of her sons have experienced the boot at different times but have been brought back eventually.  They’ve joked together that they can’t both be in her good graces at the same time.  She split with her only brother and didn’t even have the decency to let him know that their father had died. He showed up at his father house to be turned away by their step mom.

Black and White Thinking:  She is very opinionated and does not seem to be able to see a middle ground on issues.  I’m often the kind of person who likes to try and see an issue from both sides but in a conversation about anything controversial, if I even speculate on the other side of it, she goes nuts.  People who she has had long standing relationships are suddenly horrible people with no redeeming qualities.  As I type that, its hard for me to believe she feels that way but every indication over the last 10 years of working closely with her have shown me that once someone does something against her which could just mean an off handed comment that she took to be a criticism…they are BAD... FOREVER.

Binds people to her with money and gifts:  She truly believes that it would be crazy to 'hurt' her because she is soo generous.  She has actually said these words to me about people she has split with. She can't understand why anyone would leave her, voluntarily or not, when she does what she does. Its true that she has given us a lot.  She has been very generous with financial help.  But, its never unconditional and that is evident in her constantly asking us to tell her that we like what she did or what she gave us.  We have always know that she keeps track of everything she gives and acts (though never says) that these things were given in exchange for our love, devotion, compliance and attention.  I’ve actually never fallen for this.  I think finally, after 10 years, she has realized that my husband & I continue to act just as we always have.  Please don’t mistake me. We ARE grateful and we express that to her appropriately.  Also, I have no expectation of getting more.  Our behavior toward her is due to the fact that she is his mother and that we do love her.  Even typing this gives my the guilty feeling of being an ingrate.  How can I complain about being given gifts and money?

She has made the drastic decision to move across the country to where her other son lives after being here in this area for 40 years or so.  My theory is that she is seeking new people to attach to her because she has burned through so many people her.  She really only has 2 friends that she sees and that is not on a regular basis.  They are both people who are conditioned to agree with her and validate her. 

To my current issue/need for advice:   She has turned cruelly against one of our employees and I feel powerless to stop her. This is a person who has worked for her for 14 years and has been a friend to her and to me.  She made the mistake of challenging the lack of bonuses this last year and that she hasn’t had a raise in 3 years.  MIL went ballistic.  One weekend she sent 6 scathing emails to this person to her personal email.  Emails are her favorite weapon.  I really don’t know what to do.  After one big blow up with MIL about the issue, I knew that I would not be able to express my opinion without MIL feeling I was attacking her as well.  Today, after I thought it had blown over, she brought it up again and said horrible things about this person.  She was painting her black and I said something to the fact that the employee was just expressing how she felt, that I understand it pissed MIL off and that the employee wasn’t a horrible person. MIL said ‘nevermind’ and then later sent me an email telling me she was sorry she brought it up to me. One of my questions to her was ‘what do you want to happen?”  Her answer in the email is that the employee apologize for her comments and to recognize all the sacrifices and good things MIL has done in the past.  My usual plan is just not to respond. I never respond to these types of emails actually.  If I need to, I bring it up to her face. I refuse to have this back and forth email game when we work in the same office.  I feel like I’m being pushed into a corner with a no-win situation.  I feel guilty that I’m not speaking up more to stop this crazy injustice to a fellow employee/friend. I just don't know how to diffuse it.

Sorry, but this is long and it feels so good to just get it out there.  Once I started typing I couldn’t stop.  I’m trying hard not to dump on my husband when I get home from a bad day with her.  It makes him feel horrible for what he thinks is foisting his crazy mother on me.  I assure him that I make my own choices and this is my bed to lie in.  I don’t have to work for her.  I can always quit.  But other than her, the work situation works very well for me.   

Anyway, thanks to anyone who stuck it out through this crazy long post. 

[carolynhope]

I’ve been lurking for quite a while and finally feel I should post an introduction. I also seek some advice.  I’ve learned a lot already from reading the articles and the posts from others.  My situation is a little unique.  I have a MIL who I believe is BPD. I also work for her and have for 10 years. 

Ever since I’ve known her I’ve been mystified by her behavior.  She is very high functioning with her own successful business.  At first I just thought it me that wasn’t up to speed.  I thought that I was just missing an important piece that would make things make sense when her behavior was erratic.  Perhaps she is ADD as well and who knows what else but the BPD fits many of her behaviors.

Need for Validation:  I learned early on that she just wanted me (and anyone else) to agree with her.  She constantly seeks validation for even the silliest things like that a certain frozen dinner is really good or that she bought the most amazing citrus juicer on the planet.  I’m still taken aback by her enthusiasm over silly little things. But this kind of thing is annoying but easy to brush off and give her what she needs

Then there are the bigger things…like political opinions, slights (imagined or not) from friends or family, and big life decisions.  She demands agreement and when I don’t agree and I’ve stood up and spoke my opinion, no matter how hard I try to frame it diplomatically, it doesn’t go down well. The conversation is over, she leaves the room and she ends up telling me she is sorry she ever brought it up to me.

Splitting (as I understand it): She has burned more bridges than I have ever built.  Many friends and colleagues have been given her typical nasty/condescending email (it’s never done in person) and a boot out the door.  Both of her sons have experienced the boot at different times but have been brought back eventually.  They’ve joked together that they can’t both be in her good graces at the same time.  She split with her only brother and didn’t even have the decency to let him know that their father had died. He showed up at his father house to be turned away by their step mom.

Black and White Thinking:  She is very opinionated and does not seem to be able to see a middle ground on issues.  I’m often the kind of person who likes to try and see an issue from both sides but in a conversation about anything controversial, if I even speculate on the other side of it, she goes nuts.  People who she has had long standing relationships are suddenly horrible people with no redeeming qualities.  As I type that, its hard for me to believe she feels that way but every indication over the last 10 years of working closely with her have shown me that once someone does something against her which could just mean an off handed comment that she took to be a criticism…they are BAD... FOREVER.

Binds people to her with money and gifts:  She truly believes that it would be crazy to 'hurt' her because she is soo generous.  She has actually said these words to me about people she has split with. She can't understand why anyone would leave her, voluntarily or not, when she does what she does. Its true that she has given us a lot.  She has been very generous with financial help.  But, its never unconditional and that is evident in her constantly asking us to tell her that we like what she did or what she gave us.  We have always know that she keeps track of everything she gives and acts (though never says) that these things were given in exchange for our love, devotion, compliance and attention.  I’ve actually never fallen for this.  I think finally, after 10 years, she has realized that my husband & I continue to act just as we always have.  Please don’t mistake me. We ARE grateful and we express that to her appropriately.  Also, I have no expectation of getting more.  Our behavior toward her is due to the fact that she is his mother and that we do love her.  Even typing this gives my the guilty feeling of being an ingrate.  How can I complain about being given gifts and money?

She has made the drastic decision to move across the country to where her other son lives after being here in this area for 40 years or so.  My theory is that she is seeking new people to attach to her because she has burned through so many people her.  She really only has 2 friends that she sees and that is not on a regular basis.  They are both people who are conditioned to agree with her and validate her. 

To my current issue/need for advice:   She has turned cruelly against one of our employees and I feel powerless to stop her. This is a person who has worked for her for 14 years and has been a friend to her and to me.  She made the mistake of challenging the lack of bonuses this last year and that she hasn’t had a raise in 3 years.  MIL went ballistic.  One weekend she sent 6 scathing emails to this person to her personal email.  Emails are her favorite weapon.  I really don’t know what to do.  After one big blow up with MIL about the issue, I knew that I would not be able to express my opinion without MIL feeling I was attacking her as well.  Today, after I thought it had blown over, she brought it up again and said horrible things about this person.  She was painting her black and I said something to the fact that the employee was just expressing how she felt, that I understand it pissed MIL off and that the employee wasn’t a horrible person. MIL said ‘nevermind’ and then later sent me an email telling me she was sorry she brought it up to me. One of my questions to her was ‘what do you want to happen?”  Her answer in the email is that the employee apologize for her comments and to recognize all the sacrifices and good things MIL has done in the past.  My usual plan is just not to respond. I never respond to these types of emails actually.  If I need to, I bring it up to her face. I refuse to have this back and forth email game when we work in the same office.  I feel like I’m being pushed into a corner with a no-win situation.  I feel guilty that I’m not speaking up more to stop this crazy injustice to a fellow employee/friend. I just don't know how to diffuse it.

Sorry, but this is long and it feels so good to just get it out there.  Once I started typing I couldn’t stop.  I’m trying hard not to dump on my husband when I get home from a bad day with her.  It makes him feel horrible for what he thinks is foisting his crazy mother on me.  I assure him that I make my own choices and this is my bed to lie in.  I don’t have to work for her.  I can always quit.  But other than her, the work situation works very well for me.   

Anyway, thanks to anyone who stuck it out through this crazy long post. 

[Ziggiddy]

Hi carolynhope and congratulations for coming out from behind the curtain to tell your story!

I can see you have given a good deal of thought to the things your MIL does and the way it fits in with the symptoms of BPD.

It's essentially a disorder based in attachment/abandonment issues so some of or even most of the behaviours you describe all fit that filter.

You mention feeling guilty

  Even typing this gives my the guilty feeling of being an ingrate.  How can I complain about being given gifts and money?

I think it's worth pointing out that true gifts don't come with a sense of obligation but rather are a way of honouring and dignifying the person we are giving the gifts to. If it feels free, it is. If it feels like something is required in return, then is it really a gift?

Some of the situations you describe must be of concern to you, if not actually downright distressing. Especially what you said of the coworker you are friends with. You wish to be reasonable but alas it doesn't seem as though your MIL wants to reason. She wants to be agreed with and validated. In the ideal world we do that (for the most part) for ourselves. PwBPD have a constant need for validation that can never be filled until they discover a sense of themselves, which is, unfortunately all too rare.

I am guessing you have already reviewed the material available her on validation -  I wonder what you expect validation to achieve? What is your desired outcome? I think it's important to focus on what YOU want to get out of it rather than just on what you feel THEY should get out of it. After all, you are only really responsible for YOU!

As far as your feeling guilty for

  not speaking up more to stop this crazy injustice to a fellow employee/friend. I just don't know how to diffuse it. {/quote]

what is your role in the business in r/ship to both your MIL and the other employee? Do you fear you would lose your job for saying what you think? Or are you concerned how the fellow worker will feel about you?

It may be worth considering that it is up to the other lady to draw her own boundaries and make her own decisions. i don't mean that to sound cold hearted - it would be very appropriate to do whatever your conscience says to do tempered of course with sensibility.

Is it possible to speak to the person privately and let your feelings be known to her so she at least knows you see the injustice? or is that too risky?

As for diffusing it, is there a particular reason you feel responsible to be the one to do that?

And good for you t get all the stuff out there in your post! It is a release isn't it?

Ziggiddy

[polly87]

Hi Carolynhope and welcome to the board  

Thank you for sharing your story. It must be hard enough to have a MIL who is your boss, let alone a MIL with BPD! My boss also has BPD traits and my MIL, who also has BPD traits, got me my job with her, so I can really relate to your story.

As Ziggiddy suggests, it is ultimately your co-workers responsibility to deal with your MIL's behaviour, but you can try to talk with your co-worker about the issues she is having with her. How does your co-worker feel about it?

You come across as a really strong person, the way you describe your MIL's traits.

As for the guilt: I know how annoying this "gift"-giving can be. I have a MIL who likes to give us gifts (she always picks things that *she* likes and not us... .for instance, we have about 20 wine glasses). My inlaws used to pay my partner's rent before I met him, so he had some savings, and when we wanted to move house because we could not install a washing machine in our old apartment, they insisted we would not move, because we would spend "their" money... . 

Anyhow, it's not your responsibility to be grateful for things you did not ask for. I'm just trying to say that pwBPD will try anything to control you, and guilt is one of their favourite methods/weapons.

What is your partner's view on your MIL except that he feels bad about you having to deal with her? How does he see her? Does he know about BPD?

Wishing you the best and I'm looking forward to hearing more from you

[carolynhope]

Thank you polly87 and Ziggiddy for your responses.

It felt very good to just get out some of what is in my brain.  I spend a lot of time thinking about her issues.  I wish I didn't.  I wish I was free of her disorder... .not necessarily free of her. 

As for why this work situation is so distressing and I'm involved is that we are a small office, I'm the office manager and quite frankly MIL won't let it go. She keeps bringing it up even after a month has gone by.  She ruminates on things constantly and its obvious that this particular issue is gnawing at her.  On Tuesday, out of the blue, she told me she wanted me to understand the situation with 'co-worker'.  Then she proceeded to repeat everything she had said before.  I did the wrong thing and said "I know, you've said all this before" her response is "Fine, whatever! And turned away from me."  Then she turns back and begins explaining why she feels co-worker is being an ingrate because of all the things MIL/boss has done in the past. (This all started with co-worker asking why she didn't get a bonus and also asking for a raise.) She even went so far as to bring up a time 9 years ago when business was really bad and MIL/Boss made a sacrifice and didn't take a salary for some months.  I want to say "what does this have to do with what is going on right now?" or "but it is your business and that was your choice, what does that have to do with co-worker"? Obvious right? But I know that this would set her off. 

Actually, I KNOW that the only option in her mind is that I agree with her.  Her plan is to hammer it until I do.  I've tried staying out of it.  My problem is that she keeps bringing it up.  I assume the reason she does this is she is wanting to bring me around to 'her side'.  But she is being so ridiculous, even attacking co-worker personally now. And in the end, its a small thing that has been blown way out of proportion by MIL because she felt attacked and criticized.

I am guessing you have already reviewed the material available her on validation -  I wonder what you expect validation to achieve? What is your desired outcome? I think it's important to focus on what YOU want to get out of it rather than just on what you feel THEY should get out of it. After all, you are only really responsible for YOU!

thank you for this because it really made me think.  I would like to develop the strength to let these kind of things wash over me and just deal with her crazy bouts as they should be dealt with and not have it fester inside me.  I feel such resentment toward her.  What I want is to learn how to diffuse this smoldering bomb of a woman.  I would like to know how to help her see reason without her acting as if I'm turning against her.   I would like to give her what she needs without losing my self in her craziness. I want to do these things because I think my life around her would be easier if I could do these things. 

Am I living in la-la land?  Maybe what I really want is for my life to not be around her at all.

[polly87]

Hi Carolynhope,

You wrote:

It felt very good to just get out some of what is in my brain.  I spend a lot of time thinking about her issues.  I wish I didn't.  I wish I was free of her disorder... .not necessarily free of her.

I am glad that you feel better after getting some stuff out. Thinking about issues without speaking or writing about them can make us feel more alone, so keep getting it out if you like

What would happen if you did not take sides? By that, I mean not even taking your co-worker’s side: taking no side at all. You could try and say something like “well, I actually have no idea whether this was fair or not, it is between you and co-worker”.

When my mother first met my inlaws, she insisted that I would take her side against them. I did not. In other cases my mother would have had a starting point for a fight (either she would have someone on her side so that she could attack the third party or she would have both other parties on the other side to attack) but in this case I managed to disarm her. She was too scared to attack an unpredictable third party.

I think it is important for us who are trying to deal with pwBPD in our lives to maintain a sense of control over our lives. Even though the pwBPD try to force us to do certain things, it is important to not always give in to their requests. Otherwise, we become their puppets and their behaviour becomes even more controlling. But that is just my own personal view

I would like to know how to help her see reason without her acting as if I'm turning against her.

   

Please forgive me for being blunt, but I do not believe we can always change others in that way, let alone if they have BPD like your MIL. If a pwBPD senses that you want them to change, they will think you do not accept them as they are and therefore you must be against them. Can you think of any other ways of dealing with the situation that do not involve your MIL understanding things as you do?

I would like to give her what she needs without losing my self in her craziness. I want to do these things because I think my life around her would be easier if I could do these things.

To a certain extent, I think it is possible to give her what she needs without losing yourself. But maybe it will not be enough for her. You will have to set certain boundaries though, and your MIL is likely to test them and then to violate them on purpose. In what ways do you feel you are losing yourself now? How would you actually like to act towards her? What is keeping you from doing so?

I think some of the board advisors can direct you to useful articles and threads related to boundaries

Maybe what I really want is for my life to not be around her at all.

I understand... .it’s not going to happen overnight but with the right tools you will be able to reclaim your life again 

[Ziggiddy]

Hi Carolynhope

  I would like to develop the strength to let these kind of things wash over me and just deal with her crazy bouts as they should be dealt with and not have it fester inside me.

I wonder what you think 'as they should be dealt with' means to you?

Do you think there is a particular way or ways that are more right than others? Do you think the ways you are doing it now are wrong? What does it look like to you to deal with it well?

I feel such resentment toward her.

This is quite natural! It can be incredibly draining and irritating dealing with BPD behaviour. Realistically though it's not going to stop. I think it's great that you are 'going through' the resentment rather than squashing it as it is a respectful thing you can do for yourself.

  What I want is to learn how to diffuse this smoldering bomb of a woman.  I would like to know how to help her see reason without her acting as if I'm turning against her.

It sounds like you wish to influence her behaviour. Again it's a great thought and a terrific solution to your resentment and frustration but again, it's probably not realistic to expect anything YOU do to change her. She will likely continue to smoulder and continue to ignore reason - it's the nature of the disorder. You may wish to shift your focus again to how to protect yourself from the smouldering and the lack of reason rather than try to prevent them from happening.

I kind of look at it like this: we get storms here in summer. Lightning, cyclonic winds - destruction. Quite often there are power blackouts. I used to really really hope we wouldn't have a direct hit and pray it would all pass over. But then it would happen anyway. I can't change the weather, but I CAN buy a generator and a torch and candles. I can secure loose objects and find a safe place to hide when the storm comes. Making a contingency plan to cope is more effective for me and protects me more than trying to change the weather. You're  a smart lady - you see where I am going with this.

   

Am I living in la-la land?  Maybe what I really want is for my life to not be around her at all.

It's certainly an option you can consider if that's what you want. I think it all boils down to trying to find out what you want for yourself regardless of how she behaves.

Do you want respect from her? Consistency? understanding? Empathy? I think you could check her track record to see whether those things are likely.

More useful is to check your own desires Defining YOUR wants might mean setting a boundary and then walking away if that boundary is not observed. it's not about changing her, it's about protecting yourself. Sometimes, often that means tolerating unpleasant feelings. Luckily though, you get to choose which unpleasant feelings you are willing to tolerate!