...a pwBPD will destroy you

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

a pwBPD will destroy your life, pull you down, threaten to destroy your career, try to have sex with your friends in an open way, possibly physically attack you and threaten to kill you because of a fear of abandonment or rejection or loss of control over you.

Read this line in a post yesterday and it stuck with me (can't find post now... .any pointers)

Let's assume it can be true (probably not in all cases but under the certain circumstance yes).

It gave me a new way of looking at things. I think I am probably trying to fix my r/s with pwB/NPD and it is like banging my head (hard) against a wall.

If I take the stance that the r/s will destroy me,  I think I just might change my approach.

And I will acknowledge a powerful intransigent foe and act accordingly.

And my head will stop bleeding and get better.  

Does this make any sense?





https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=223283

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270984

[earlgrey]

a pwBPD will destroy your life, pull you down, threaten to destroy your career, try to have sex with your friends in an open way, possibly physically attack you and threaten to kill you because of a fear of abandonment or rejection or loss of control over you.

Read this line in a post yesterday and it stuck with me (can't find post now... .any pointers)

Let's assume it can be true (probably not in all cases but under the certain circumstance yes).

It gave me a new way of looking at things. I think I am probably trying to fix my r/s with pwB/NPD and it is like banging my head (hard) against a wall.

If I take the stance that the r/s will destroy me,  I think I just might change my approach.

And I will acknowledge a powerful intransigent foe and act accordingly.

And my head will stop bleeding and get better.  

Does this make any sense?





https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=223283

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270984

[Notwendy]

It can make sense and if it helps you decide what you should do, that is, it makes sense to you, then it can make sense.

However, there can be a problem with this perspective. If we believe it, then this makes us victims. The problem with "victim" perspective is that it doesn't lead to us looking at our part in the relationship. It is said that if someone leaves a relationship without looking at their own issues, then there is a possibility of getting into the same issues with someone else.

That's some motivation to look at our part in it.

There was a time I would have agreed with that statement. It looked to me as if my father was the victim of my BPD mother's behaviors. I didn't understand how he put up with them.

But, over time I looked at his part in it. He didn't just put up with the behaviors- he enabled them. The more he enabled them, the more her behaviors continued. Looking at things another way, one might wonder "who destroyed who?".

People with BPD can cross boundaries, and so if we don't have boundaries, they will cross them. People rob houses, so we lock doors. If we had no locks on the door, left the windows open and a robber came in, whose "fault" is that?

I don't think I completely agree with the statement that a pwBPD will destroy you. However, BPD exists on a spectrum. Some people are addicts, or serious abusers. Some are not. It is up to us to decide our boundaries, what are we able to deal with and what we are not. Victims don't have choices. We do- to stay and work on the relationship ( ourselves) or not be in the relationship. We can't change another person's behavior, but we can decide if we wish to tolerate it or not.

I think I would agree with this statement: co-dependency can destroy your sense of who you are. It can make you lose your self esteem, your sense of self and also impact your relationships. Co-dependency can lead us to enable another person's bad behavior and this causes them harm. Co-dependency is like having no doors, no windows, and a neon sign over your door saying " robbers, come on in, and I won't even call the police" then, being upset that someone robbed your house.

Co-dependency is often the problem of the non. This is the part to consider. One reason you can not find that statement " a pwBPD will destroy you"  is because it may have been removed. Not because it doesn't reflect how one might feel if upset about a relationship, but because it isn't helpful. If we are here to take solid steps towards change, then we need to focus on what can be helpful and victim mode is not.

[Ceruleanblue]

I agree with Notwendy. I've had boundaries, but since BPDh has recently escalated, I've upped some boundaries, and I realize this may be the end of my marriage. If I keep letting him cross boundaries, or not hold my boundaries fast, it is me enabling him. I've done too much of that in the past, and it's showed him that I'm okay with it(when in reality, I'm not). I just wasn't always up to the conflict, or his scary anger.

My therapist has really helped me see that this isn't a relationship I can really maintain long term, and that there isn't much here for me, in actuality. I'm sad, and scared, but I can't quite pinpoint why, as my life certainly has little security, and BPDh's moods and anger are just so frequent and tiring to put up with. Even with radical acceptance, it just gets old.

I don't feel at all like he'll "destroy my life". He doesn't have that much power. He can make things chaotic, but in the end, I have peace in myself, and he really can't touch that.

[Turkish]

Click on the "quote from... ." link and it will take you to that thread.

[earlgrey]

Thank you Notwendy... .I get what you say.

I've had a difficult few days and the 'destroy' idea gave me a 'valid' and easy escape route. You are fighting a losing battle so run.

On reflection on the above comments I do not want to go the victim route

I do not want to flee, I am working on boundaries and self and Co-Dependence and it it taking time and energy.

But getting untangled from a pw B/NPD is (for me) extremely difficult, and trying to find the real bond that maintains the attachment is hard.

Once the bond is found I hope I can then cut it and be free.

[earlgrey]

Click on the "quote from... ." link and it will take you to that thread.

Thanks Turkish for links... .however it was another thread. I think quite recent with a couple of pages of posts.

It mentioned an "... .untreated pwBPD... ."

[myself]

People with BPD can cross boundaries, and so if we don't have boundaries, they will cross them.

I see what you're trying to say here, but it's also a bit confusing.

Switch 'cross boundaries' for 'eat spaghetti'. "People with BPD can eat spaghetti, and so if we don't have spaghetti, they will eat it." That said, since many of the behaviors of 'pwBPD' are done intentionally, there are definitely actual 'victims' (not all become 'destroyed' and yes with perhaps less deep damage due to better personal boundaries, etc). So, why be with someone who would do that?

One of the other bigger problems in 'BPD relationships' (remembering that most spoken of here are not officially diagnosed) is when you DO have boundaries and the person is crossing them. When there is supposedly love and mutual respect between the partners, this kind of behavior can make as little sense as someone attempting to eat the spaghetti you don't even have. It's the crossroad where many of these relationships finally do disintegrate, because both people need to be moving in a fairly consistent and positive direction and 'pwBPD' usually don't make those kinds of moves.

People rob houses, so we lock doors. If we had no locks on the door, left the windows open and a robber came in, whose "fault" is that?

The fault would be with the robber. The one who's making the choice and following through with such negative behavior. When prosecuted, does the robber go to jail or the person who didn't lock their door? Should we also be held responsible to wear bee keepers outfits because there are bees out there and there's a chance we might get stung? How far does this line of thinking and self-protection go?

we can decide if we wish to tolerate it or not.

   

It's ultimately about getting rid of our walls, not building them up even more. 

[JQ]

Hello EG,

You're some what new here with only about 20 post so welcome.  Be sure to read the links at the top of the page and to the right of the page for further information on BPD ------>>>>>>>

I would also encourage you to seek out a REALLY good therapist (T) in BPD/Codependent r/s to help you sort through your thoughts, ideas, emotions and feelings associated with it.  Notwendy has giving you some good guidance in regards to BPD & you the NON.  BPD is a very, VERY serious Cluster B mental Illness that some studies suggest has it's roots in a genetic defect at the DNA level that is pass down from generation to the next. In my experience this has been the case ... .sadly.

BPD is beyond mine, Notwendy's, Turkish, and your ability to try to manage or perhaps really understand. Those who have BPD have a serious behavioral illness & in the case of my 2nd exBPDgf has seen Ph.ds, Clinical Physiologist, Clinical Therapist for over 25 years and she is no further down the road of recovery then when she started.  As Notwendy says, there is this "spectrum" of BPD that we all deal with. My is high functioning, an Ivy league education, 2 Master's and still has relationship issues that can destroy the NON including myself. She has 2 ex-husbands, more then 2 dozen exbf's, and the list goes on.  What made me think I could help her when so many others who are much more educated than me in the mental illness profession could not is something I have asked myself.

I like most in the group are NONs or codependents, aka care givers who believe the glass is always have full. I am a perfectionist, the Knight in Amor riding in to save the day from evil, I am the Sheriff with the white hat & shining badge protecting others.  I am a recovering codependent!  I had to learn as NotWendy suggest that I can NOT find happiness in saving or helping someone else but I had to find happiness and a sense of self within myself.  After many hours of therapy by more then one, a lot of reading, a lot of education from this site and others I've learned that the only person I can affect change is ... .is me!  Others who are "recovering codependents" will tell you the same.

YOU need to work on yourself and not things that will for the most part not work with your BPD if we're being honest here. Why change who you are, your behavior or the way you think for someone else?  Why not find a person who accepts you for who you are and not what they want you to become?  Who will appreciate the way you are and the way you compliment them?  That's what you need to focus on IMHO.

You will read of many here who have been in r/s with a BPD for weeks, months perhaps a few years and nothing has really changed. Then you will see those r/s where a NON aka a codependent has been in a r/s with a BPD for 2 or 3 decades and nothing has changed. There is no blanket statement for us or anyone in life ... .but VERY rarely does things work out in a BPD/Codependent r/s. There are threads about "talk therapy" & "pharma treatment" to "MANAGE" the mental illness ... .but you have to learn and know that there is not a cure for BPD.

With all of that being said, most of us as the "glass is 1/2 full" kinda of people that we are will ... .we HAVE to try to salvage what we can. It's ok we all do it for a period of time.  You can set your boundaries and there are books and certainly this site has articles that will help you set the boundary. But a key with setting the boundary EG is the consequences of stepping over the boundary? Are YOU going to be able to enforce it and if you are what are the consequences of stepping over the boundary?

Example, if you tell a 3 yr old child that if they take a piece of candy out of the jar on the table they will have a "spanking". When they do are you going to enforce it or are you going to enable them to do it again and again by threaten to do it?  You have to stick to your boundaries and said consequences, otherwise there are no boundaries and you loose respect for yourself.

You said, " But getting untangled from a pw B/NPD is (for me) extremely difficult, and trying to find the real bond that maintains the attachment is hard".  Without question it is the hardest thing you will probably come across in your life. But in order to detach and move forward you must first look back at your life and find out why you became, why you are a Codependent. Once you do that things will start to fall into place. You might not like what you find, but it's one of the key's to understanding the entire BPD/Codependent r/s and moving forward in YOUR life ... .LIVING YOUR LIFE FOR YOURSELF!  Find self worth in yourself and not trying to make someone else happy ... .

This is a winding road on your journey of self discovery filled with more than one pothole. That's what the group is here for, to pick you up when you stumble and YOU will stumble. We all have. When you do we will pick you up, dust you off and then the rest is up to you. YOU can sit back down where you're at and do nothing. YOU can continue down the path your currently on and see how that works out for you or you can take a new path to the right and see where that will lead you.

The choice has been and will ALWAYS be yours EG!

J

[Violettine]

Yes. Think of the old mini-skirt and rapist trope.

People rob houses, so we lock doors. If we had no locks on the door, left the windows open and a robber came in, whose "fault" is that?

The fault would be with the robber. The one who's making the choice and following through with such negative behavior. When prosecuted, does the robber go to jail or the person who didn't lock their door? Should we also be held responsible to wear bee keepers outfits because there are bees out there and there's a chance we might get stung? How far does this line of thinking and self-protection go?

we can decide if we wish to tolerate it or not.

   

It's ultimately about getting rid of our walls, not building them up even more.  [/quote]

[earlgrey]

JQ... .many thanks for your plentiful thoughts. I takes me a while to digest new info, so Ill have to come back to you.

In the meantime Nonwendy and Myself have given me this... .

I used to live in a house and leave the windows open. What do you know I was robbed. I complained to my friends, and they said, have you tried keeping your windows shut?

So I did shut my windows and things were better for a while. Then I got a window broken and more stuff was taken…...

So I put in tough glass and then bars over the windows and then my door got kicked down, and I was still getting burgled.

So maybe I live in a rough area. Maybe I should move. Maybe I should not collect fancy jewelry. Maybe I should stay and get dogs and a gun, but actually dogs and a gun is not my style.

There comes a point where protection (boundaries) become more than just a normal coping mechanism and become an imposed ritual to cope with a hostile environment.

With the house analogy the constant violation of my space despite real efforts to keep things cool would ‘destroy’ my (most people’s?) idea of a peaceful and happy lifestyle.

So when a pwBPD pursues repetitive boundary crossing I am sure there will come a point, and each to his/her own, when you wonder if moving is not the best option.

I do not have a problem with this and the idea of playing victim here seems inappropriate. It is more about finding your own balance that feels right and natural and comfortable.

And I think when you find that balance the way ahead will become clear.

Yes. Think of the old mini-skirt and rapist trope.

[/quote]
sorry don't get it pls exlain

[Notwendy]

I guess I need to clarify my statement on the robber. It was not meant in the legal sense. Robery is a crime ( so is rape ) and those who break the law should face consequences. A person with open doors ( or a miniskirt) has not committed a crime.

In relationships, who is "at fault" may or may not be as clear. It may still be the other persons fault. However this perspective doesn't involve the non looking at him or herself for possible choices.

Taking a right / wrong perspective can be important in terms of the law. A romantic relationship is complicated. It may help to look at it through different perspectives. Since we can only change ourselves- it may be helpful to look at our contribution to the dysfunction. This doesn't negate the actions of the other but this is not about finding fault but looking for opportunities to grow emotionally ourselves. It's for us, not about someone else.

Boundaries can be too weak or too strong. I think the goal is to have emotionally healthy and appropriate ones.

[Notwendy]

Boundaries are a reflection of our own values. They are also a determinant of who we are in relationship to others. They are not all about keeping people out- like walls- but also who/what we let in. It could be as simple as how we filter what people say to us to a decision about dealing with something major like infidelity.

If someone is saying mean things while dysregulating- we can choose to feel hurt by their words or filter them, JADE, walk away, argue. There are some choices. If we are certain about who we are and someone says something that isn't true - we can choose how to respond. Likewise if we think it is true- we can decide about that as well. Boundaries help us realize our "truth" even if someone else has a different "truth".

If fidelity is an important value then we first should keep it and also let our partner know that it is a value. A partner then has the choice to cheat or not. If they do, it is very hurtful. They are the one responsible for that. If this was in a legal sense - they would be the cheater. Yet then we would still have choices. If we choose to stay- then we compromise our value of a monogamous relationship. That can be hurtful - but we also have to realize that part of the feeling hurt is from compromising our own values. The others decision- to leave can hurt too. These are difficult choices. But to know our choices we may have to look beyond a who is right and who is wrong perspective.