Are they capable of remorse , introspection etc ?

[dobie]

Six month after my BU my x told my bro when she was returnning some stuff she feels bad about how she broke up , told him she thinks I'm a great guy wishes me all the best etc ... .

Still raged about certain things till my bro shut her down with logic

She even admitted how awesome  I was in a round about way ,  how she probably wont meet someone as smart as me which my bro said then why did you leave him (confused look and no response from her )

Her main argument is we fought a lot and money issues .

Admitted she had fallen out of love for a year and should not have blindsided me pretending with the wedding saying things like "if something happens to you I will kill myself "

So if she can do this does it mean she is not BPD ?

I mean i thought they are black & white with no shades of grey

[LonelyChild]

No, pwBPDs are not capable of introspection. Introspection implies the ability to judge and examine your self. This requires a self, which pwBPDs do not have. Also, if you are able to examine your own behavior and self, you can judge and assign value to it. If you can judge and assign value, this means that you understand yourself. Which in turn means being able to regulate and adjust your behavior. Which implies the ability to change yourself and adjust, over time. Which, as we all know, pwBPDs are incapable of.

pwBPDs absolutely cannot introspect.

[dobie]

No, pwBPDs are not capable of introspection. Introspection implies the ability to judge and examine your self. This requires a self, which pwBPDs do not have. Also, if you are able to examine your own behavior and self, you can judge and assign value to it. If you can judge and assign value, this means that you understand yourself. Which in turn means being able to regulate and adjust your behavior. Which implies the ability to change yourself and adjust, over time. Which, as we all know, pwBPDs are incapable of.

pwBPDs absolutely cannot introspect.

So she is not BPD is she is saying those things to my bro ? She started off defensive blaming me for xyz   but she got shut down when my bro confronted her behaviours that's when she started to sound like she was taking responsibility

[LonelyChild]

So she is not BPD is she is saying those things to my bro ?

I don't know if she has BPD or not. A pwBPD could very well say those things. My exBPDgf said she loved me. But her actions never reflected that. A pwBPD can say anything. Compare what she's saying to how she's acting. Do they match? If they do, she absolutely does not have BPD. If they don't, she might have BPD.

[dobie]

So she is not BPD is she is saying those things to my bro ?

I don't know if she has BPD or not. A pwBPD could very well say those things. My exBPDgf said she loved me. But her actions never reflected that. A pwBPD can say anything. Compare what she's saying to how she's acting. Do they match? If they do, she absolutely does not have BPD. If they don't, she might have BPD.

Her actions post BU selfish , self centred , no empathy its all me, me , me

Justifying everything pretty much some nice words today but that's it words .

No ringing me up, no email to say how sorry she is or how it was 50/50 no hope we can stay friends (she did say that early on in the BU) no she even started off telling my bro about her resentment .

Selfish , self centred as always no does he need anything no empathy nope just some remorse perhaps but even then was she really contrite ... .

My bro said she will say anything to not be seen as a bad person or be disliked

Her reasons for leaving

1.) We bickered (she admits she caused a lot of it )

2.) Money

Real reason I failed in her eyes to make her happy , which she knows and admits is not my fault at least in part to my bro she has never been happy .

[LonelyChild]

Her actions post BU selfish , self centred , no empathy its all me, me , me

Justifying everything pretty much some nice words today but that's it words .

No ringing me up, no email to say how sorry she is or how it was 50/50 no hope we can stay friends (she did say that early on in the BU) no she even started off telling my bro about her resentment .

Selfish , self centred as always no does he need anything no empathy nope just some remorse perhaps but even then was she really contrite ... .

My bro said she will say anything to not be seen as a bad person or be disliked

I understand your frustration over her "me, me, me." But that reflects her reality. You are not an individual in her world. You are an object. A teddy bear, or such. Just like you do not consider the feelings and emotions of a teddy bear, she does not consider yours. She doesn't understand that you have those. Google theory of mind.

She's not trying to justify things. She's trying to explain to you that she hasn't done anything wrong. In her reality, she hasn't, because you do not have thoughts, emotions or needs in her world. Only she does.

She's not ringing you up, because she cannot relate to your need for closure. Would you sit down with a teddy bear and explain to it why you stuffed it away in the basement for many years when you grew tired of it?

If she has BPD, there absolutely is no remorse on her part. Just like you wouldn't ruminate over putting your teddy bear in the basement.

[dobie]

Her actions post BU selfish , self centred , no empathy its all me, me , me

Justifying everything pretty much some nice words today but that's it words .

No ringing me up, no email to say how sorry she is or how it was 50/50 no hope we can stay friends (she did say that early on in the BU) no she even started off telling my bro about her resentment .

Selfish , self centred as always no does he need anything no empathy nope just some remorse perhaps but even then was she really contrite ... .

My bro said she will say anything to not be seen as a bad person or be disliked

I understand your frustration over her "me, me, me." But that reflects her reality. You are not an individual in her world. You are an object. A teddy bear, or such. Just like you do not consider the feelings and emotions of a teddy bear, she does not consider yours. She doesn't understand that you have those. Google theory of mind.

She's not trying to justify things. She's trying to explain to you that she hasn't done anything wrong. In her reality, she hasn't, because you do not have thoughts, emotions or needs in her world. Only she does.

She's not ringing you up, because she cannot relate to your need for closure. Would you sit down with a teddy bear and explain to it why you stuffed it away in the basement for many years when you grew tired of it?

If she has BPD, there absolutely is no remorse on her part. Just like you wouldn't ruminate over putting your teddy bear in the basement.

God you pretty much summed her up that woman could justify anything and play the victim . I was just surprised she took SOME accountability today .

I always got the feeling she wanted me because needed me ... as evidenced by her disposal of me when I was no longer needed .

Her resentments over my needs , or her bringing 50\50 to the table when her need of me started to wane ... her anger and frustration when I could not make her happy all the time .

My bro said he felt like he was talking to a child not a 30 year old woman

[jhkbuzz]

Her actions post BU selfish , self centred , no empathy its all me, me , me

Justifying everything pretty much some nice words today but that's it words .

No ringing me up, no email to say how sorry she is or how it was 50/50 no hope we can stay friends (she did say that early on in the BU) no she even started off telling my bro about her resentment .

Selfish , self centred as always no does he need anything no empathy nope just some remorse perhaps but even then was she really contrite ... .

My bro said she will say anything to not be seen as a bad person or be disliked

I understand your frustration over her "me, me, me." But that reflects her reality. You are not an individual in her world. You are an object. A teddy bear, or such. Just like you do not consider the feelings and emotions of a teddy bear, she does not consider yours. She doesn't understand that you have those. Google theory of mind.

She's not trying to justify things. She's trying to explain to you that she hasn't done anything wrong. In her reality, she hasn't, because you do not have thoughts, emotions or needs in her world. Only she does.

She's not ringing you up, because she cannot relate to your need for closure. Would you sit down with a teddy bear and explain to it why you stuffed it away in the basement for many years when you grew tired of it?

If she has BPD, there absolutely is no remorse on her part. Just like you wouldn't ruminate over putting your teddy bear in the basement.

God you pretty much summed her up that woman could justify anything and play the victim . I was just surprised she took SOME accountability today .

I always got the feeling she wanted me because needed me ... as evidenced by her disposal of me when I was no longer needed .

Her resentments over my needs , or her bringing 50\50 to the table when her need of me started to wane ... her anger and frustration when I could not make her happy all the time .

My bro said he felt like he was talking to a child not a 30 year old woman

That's because BPD is a disorder of emotional arrested development.  In some ways, pwBPD are "stuck" at the age of their original trauma, and that is often a very young age.  Therapists are sometimes encouraged to view their BPD clients as children stuck in an adult's body - to make it easier for the therapist to feel empathetic.

No one on these boards can tell you if your SO has BPD.  Keep reading and learning and you will come to your own conclusions - and then you'll start to shift your attention from her towards your own healing and growth.

[LimboFL]

Dobie, don't focus on what happened in this one conversation with your brother. Trust me, there have been plenty of times when I saw complete lucidity from my exBPDgf. In fact, there were times where she was theoretically correct on many matters. In theory, I shouldn't have taken an hour and a half to go shopping, but I was roaming the aisles because I love to cook and explore. Theoretically, I could have used less dish washing liquid to do the dishes, theoretically I should have spent countless hours more with my son, then I have, but he is thirteen and wants to be with his friends, not his Dad. I know that I did... .you get where I am going?

My exBPDgf was often completely reasonable and intelligent. She did offer emotions and love. These are the reasons we fell in love with them. But what about the other times, the times when things just didn't seem right? Those times where because we were in the FOG, we overlooked things that we shouldn't have.

One thing that I have realized in my time on this board, is that there are variations, that these are people with their own experiences. Some have written on this board with absolutely frightening stories of revenge, vindictiveness, thievery and more. I had a number of occasions where there was genuine fear, but in four years these were sporadic. Otherwise, it was the little things, those passing comments, the push pull, the one foot out the door, the engagement with orbiters, all fairly subtle. One thing is certain, whether it is because they force themselves to or because they revert to, whenever they deal with the outside public (which includes you brother) there seems to be more lucidity. They want to endear themselves to whomever is standing in front of them. You brother was no exception. She was pleading her case. Not all are absolutely incapable of taking some blame. My ex apologized many times for her actions. However, this can be calculated too. I am not saying it was bit...

pwBPD are not robots nor do they spend their entire life in a state of disregulation. In addition, we do contribute, regardless of whether they were the cause of something we did or something that life threw at us. Life plays itself out regardless. What was lacking in our relationships was a partner who stood up for us and contributed. I know that my very rough 2014 with two tech companies I joined going belly up within 2 months, didn't help matters but she didn't really step up to help, even though I was still paying the majority of the bills. She has a job, she makes money. She would ask for us to go out and I would say "my situation is a little tight right now", she then would be dissapointed, but did she say "you know what, it's my treat, let's go out, you have covered the bills, taken care of my dogs, driven me back and forth to work day in day out, done the shopping, it's time for me to return the favor"? No, she didn't. Why not? Then I had to feel guilty.

Relationship are supposed to be a two way street.

What you need to focus on are the things you experienced during the relationship. The things you knew weren't right. You should not focus all of your attention on one conversation with your brother where she is trying play the sane good guy.

You see, while it wasn't direct contact. Any connection to our ex's triggers us, even if we weren't communicating directly. I remember sending a note to my ex by mail. It was an excruciating week, because it was just the thought of the connection that caused me to think about her more than I should. I have started chatting with a board member who reached out to me recently. He ended up in a state because he walked by the shop his ex works at, with a date. It took him a couple of days to get over it. In other words, just because you weren't there to see your ex doesn't mean that it was considered no contact. You lived vicariously through your brother.

Anyway, my point is, reflect on all of the signs during the relationship not a one on one conversation with your brother. This meeting was planned so your ex had plenty of time to reflect on what she would say and we know how much they think about these things. I bet she had the entire dialogue planned, which isn't so odd, because we all do it to a degree, plan when we have a meeting coming up. You wanted her to either show complete remorse or completely lambast you. Instead she found the middle road. We forget that we loved and stayed with these partners because they were, for the most part, completely normal in the outside world. It is what has and will continue to question our own sanity.

Try to move forward from this and try to reflect on everything that went down during the relationship. If you are here and have felt a kinship to many stories or the posters, then the likely hood is that she is BPD. If you have been here and said to yourself "that doesn't sound anything like my situation" then maybe she isn't.

[Copperfox]

pwBPDs absolutely cannot introspect.

I think that there are probably very few absolutes in this world.

You may have a point in that they are much less likely to introspect.  But I personally saw mine show remorse, even grieve, past relationships while she was with me, in certain moments of weakness.  But it was long after the time a normal person would do so.  Sort of grieving/remorse, but in a disordered way.

They don't follow normal patterns, but, as Limbo pointed out above, they are still people, capable of all the things normal people do.  It's a difference of degree, not of kind.

[Loosestrife]

(Quote) Limbo: My exBPDgf was often completely reasonable and intelligent. She did offer emotions and love. These are the reasons we fell in love with them. But what about the other times, the times when things just didn't seem right? Those times where because we were in the FOG, we overlooked things that we shouldn't have.

Thanks for this reminder. It's easy to roll into the next FoG when they are lucid and acting normal and nice.

[LimboFL]

Loosestrife, that is the hardest part in all of this. Trying to reconcile the fact that we saw complete normalcy in our relationships, the mechanics of day to day interaction with someone we love and care for, as a partner. Even after 20 years with my ex wife and 4 with my exBPDgf, I remain confused about what is the way things SHOULD be and the way things are.

Until I (hopefully) find a new relationship, with a non, I won't have any answers because I was so enmeshed in the one with my exBPDgf, on top of dealing with all of the life stuff that had nothing to do with her, that I often question which was is up and which way is down.

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

It would be so much easier to digest if somehow, our ex's ran into the bedroom and changed into another outfit, changed their hair and their voice, whenever they became that other person. It would be so much easier for us to reason that we were dealing with different people or at least different personalities.

Alas, this is not what happens. As a result we question our own sanity, as Dobie has. It's mind bending.

Again some on this board need no such convincing because their partners inflicted so much chaos that they are left without any doubt. But for the rest of us, who lived with partners who most often exhibited more subtle traits (mixed in with short burst of crazy) it is much harder to reason with it all.

We will often wonder if maybe we were simply overreacting or that our minds were simply playing tricks on us. It is at these very times, like the one experienced by Dobie, where we have to kick ourselves and look back on everything we went through, all of those sometimes fleeting moments of odd that plagued our relationships. If we don't we will focus too hard on the moments of sanity that we all enjoyed with our partners and only patch those moments together, instead of peppering our memories with both the good and the bad.

At this point, for all of us, it is about our sanity, our well being and our survival. In order to achieve this goal we HAVE to remind ourselves, every day about all of the strange things we experienced, all of the anguish, the daily egg shell walks that we took, even if our partners didn't necessarily merit it based on their actions on a particular day. Our walking on eggshells was merely a state of readiness, just in case. It was almost a relief when we would have our first or even second interaction for the day and there was nothing but them being completely normal, with a kiss here, an I love you there, could you go shopping because I want to make a nice dinner for us. We let our guard down because our partners happened to be in a good/normal mood that day. Small jabs become so inconsequential, as long as there isn't a major event, it was a relief.

There was a brief moment where no contact, for me, was driven by the possibility that my partner and I could reunite. Now no contact is about eliminating the anguish that comes with any form of communication with my ex. Not because I have lost complete interest but rather because any emotional link I have to her, will offer me nothing but pain and the completely insane desire to spend time with her, which will only lead to another very hard withdrawal.

As loving and caring people, we want to hope that they will suddenly come out of it and that we will live happily ever after. Despite all of the complications, I will always believe that if it hadn't been for her disorder, all of the pieces were there for a beautiful, life long, love. Alas, this can't happen.

[Reecer1588]

I agree in general with what was posted earlier, that there are very few 'absolutes' in this world. Here's my experience with this topic: For the vast majority of my relationship, my ex girlfriend would get upset/pissy about random crap. I would in turn point out to her that I have feelings too, that these things were insignificant, and that every time I try and talk to her, she just gets pissy. Basically then she would say she's very sorry, and would capitulate. Of course over time, these behaviors intensified, they got much worse. It would get ever harder to get her to capitulate. At the end, it did not matter how much I fought back, she just kept escalating. Escalating to the point of denying she had anything to do with anything, escalating to the point of having campus police call me and tell me to "leave her the hell alone."

Basically, you could tell that these behaviors just kept getting worse, and worse. Like many things, her ability to 'introspect' faded and faded until there was none. Just a wall of deafening silence now and threats of legal actions.

[hergestridge]

pwBPDs absolutely cannot introspect.

I think that there are probably very few absolutes in this world.

You may have a point in that they are much less likely to introspect.  But I personally saw mine show remorse, even grieve, past relationships while she was with me, in certain moments of weakness.  But it was long after the time a normal person would do so.  Sort of grieving/remorse, but in a disordered way.

They don't follow normal patterns, but, as Limbo pointed out above, they are still people, capable of all the things normal people do.  It's a difference of degree, not of kind.

Theoretically that is correct. A person with BPD has impaired abilities to self-soothe etc. But the result is a whole different way of functioning, emotionally.

If you look at the way they behave in relationships I would say it is a difference of kind rather than degree.

A BPD relationships basically evolves backwards. Things escalate where they should be smoothed out. Conflicts accumulate where they should be solved.

[dobie]

Loosestrife, that is the hardest part in all of this. Trying to reconcile the fact that we saw complete normalcy in our relationships, the mechanics of day to day interaction with someone we love and care for, as a partner. Even after 20 years with my ex wife and 4 with my exBPDgf, I remain confused about what is the way things SHOULD be and the way things are.

Until I (hopefully) find a new relationship, with a non, I won't have any answers because I was so enmeshed in the one with my exBPDgf, on top of dealing with all of the life stuff that had nothing to do with her, that I often question which was is up and which way is down.

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

It would be so much easier to digest if somehow, our ex's ran into the bedroom and changed into another outfit, changed their hair and their voice, whenever they became that other person. It would be so much easier for us to reason that we were dealing with different people or at least different personalities.

Alas, this is not what happens. As a result we question our own sanity, as Dobie has. It's mind bending.

Again some on this board need no such convincing because their partners inflicted so much chaos that they are left without any doubt. But for the rest of us, who lived with partners who most often exhibited more subtle traits (mixed in with short burst of crazy) it is much harder to reason with it all.

We will often wonder if maybe we were simply overreacting or that our minds were simply playing tricks on us. It is at these very times, like the one experienced by Dobie, where we have to kick ourselves and look back on everything we went through, all of those sometimes fleeting moments of odd that plagued our relationships. If we don't we will focus too hard on the moments of sanity that we all enjoyed with our partners and only patch those moments together, instead of peppering our memories with both the good and the bad.

At this point, for all of us, it is about our sanity, our well being and our survival. In order to achieve this goal we HAVE to remind ourselves, every day about all of the strange things we experienced, all of the anguish, the daily egg shell walks that we took, even if our partners didn't necessarily merit it based on their actions on a particular day. Our walking on eggshells was merely a state of readiness, just in case. It was almost a relief when we would have our first or even second interaction for the day and there was nothing but them being completely normal, with a kiss here, an I love you there, could you go shopping because I want to make a nice dinner for us. We let our guard down because our partners happened to be in a good/normal mood that day. Small jabs become so inconsequential, as long as there isn't a major event, it was a relief.

There was a brief moment where no contact, for me, was driven by the possibility that my partner and I could reunite. Now no contact is about eliminating the anguish that comes with any form of communication with my ex. Not because I have lost complete interest but rather because any emotional link I have to her, will offer me nothing but pain and the completely insane desire to spend time with her, which will only lead to another very hard withdrawal.

As loving and caring people, we want to hope that they will suddenly come out of it and that we will live happily ever after. Despite all of the complications, I will always believe that if it hadn't been for her disorder, all of the pieces were there for a beautiful, life long, love. Alas, this can't happen.

Thank you limbo, yes I do feel like I've been triggered emotionally I slept only three hours last night I was distraught even though I myself didn't see her or talk to her and your right about the FOG

It was not like she was even full of remorse or introspection she was still seething about all the money she had spent on us during the r/s as if that is a normal and healthy way to grieve when her biggest resentment or loss is the cost of carpet for our flat etc and not the end of six years or a jot of empathy for the man whose heart she ripped out or our dog dying a month after I had to rehome him .

She was still making out I'm some sort of male "gold digger" (paranoia)  because she earnt more and that my supporting her in her carer and promotions was so I could have more of her money (absolute bs) it was my bro challenging her that got her to concede on various things it was not like she even turned up or even once in the last six months reached out to me or my family to see how I'm doing if I'm OK or to apologise for the way she left leaving me in the poop

No heartfelt text or email nope nothing after that first week of the BU when she realised she no longer needed me it was cold hard me, me , me like it had always been with us and with all her r/s people are objects for her to soothe and fill the empty space .


Its always about her and her needs  always .

[LonelyChild]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is obviously very true for my exBPDgf. Also for my father. I remember when I was 20 one day. My father sat down and had a talk with me. He was completely lucid. It was jawdropping. I remember saying to him "dad, what's going on, you're awesome today." It was like he was actually conscious of what was going on around him, and other people. 99% of the time, though, he's in some dreamlike state, meandering around without understanding anything that's going on.

My exBPDgf was the same. She had moments of lucidity, which were absolutely amazing to see. Most of the time, she was in some hypnagogic state. It's sad and heartbreaking.

[jhkbuzz]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is one of the most eloquent descriptions of the difficulties of dealing with someone with BPD that I've ever read. Thank you for putting it into words.

[hergestridge]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is obviously very true for my exBPDgf. Also for my father. I remember when I was 20 one day. My father sat down and had a talk with me. He was completely lucid. It was jawdropping. I remember saying to him "dad, what's going on, you're awesome today." It was like he was actually conscious of what was going on around him, and other people. 99% of the time, though, he's in some dreamlike state, meandering around without understanding anything that's going on.

My exBPDgf was the same. She had moments of lucidity, which were absolutely amazing to see. Most of the time, she was in some hypnagogic state. It's sad and heartbreaking.

What is so difficult to wrap your head around when you're in the middle of it, is that it will not last.

For a normal person insight and experience is part of a linear process. If someone has a realization and it outspoken about, it changes the premises from then on. That is not the case with pwBPD. This means the "lucidity" will only keep you trapped in the relationship with its promises, but it will not result in any of the changes in behavior you would normally expect.

If I had known that "lucidity" would not last, I would have left my relationship years and years earlier. But could not imagine that the girl I loved would "know" and the next day "un-know". I couldn't imagine a mental illness of that magnitude.

[LonelyChild]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is obviously very true for my exBPDgf. Also for my father. I remember when I was 20 one day. My father sat down and had a talk with me. He was completely lucid. It was jawdropping. I remember saying to him "dad, what's going on, you're awesome today." It was like he was actually conscious of what was going on around him, and other people. 99% of the time, though, he's in some dreamlike state, meandering around without understanding anything that's going on.

My exBPDgf was the same. She had moments of lucidity, which were absolutely amazing to see. Most of the time, she was in some hypnagogic state. It's sad and heartbreaking.

What is so difficult to wrap your head around when you're in the middle of it, is that it will not last.

For a normal person insight and experience is part of a linear process. If someone has a realization and it outspoken about, it changes the premises from then on. That is not the case with pwBPD. This means the "lucidity" will only keep you trapped in the relationship with its promises, but it will not result in any of the changes in behavior you would normally expect.

If I had known that "lucidity" would not last, I would have left my relationship years and years earlier. But could not imagine that the girl I loved would "know" and the next day "un-know". I couldn't imagine a mental illness of that magnitude.

This is actually very interesting. It describes it very well, knowing and unknowing. Her memory worked the same way. One day she remembered things she had done. The next day she didn't.

One time, we watched a movie. There was a very romantic (although odd) scene, which she loved. When we were watching it, she cuddled up with me in the sofa and said "wow, this is so romantic, I love this movie." Three (yes, 3) days later, the song from that scene came on, on TV. I said "hey, it's that song from that scene." She said "what scene?"

So I searched the scene up on youtube, found a clip from the movie we watched the other night, with music and video and everything. Showed it to her and said "this one, the one we watched the other night which you liked so much." She just looked at me and said "what? I've never seen this movie." coldly. It was really creepy.

[going places]

Six month after my BU my x told my bro when she was returnning some stuff she feels bad about how she broke up , told him she thinks I'm a great guy wishes me all the best etc ... .

Still raged about certain things till my bro shut her down with logic

She even admitted how awesome  I was in a round about way ,  how she probably wont meet someone as smart as me which my bro said then why did you leave him (confused look and no response from her )

Her main argument is we fought a lot and money issues .

Admitted she had fallen out of love for a year and should not have blindsided me pretending with the wedding saying things like "if something happens to you I will kill myself "

So if she can do this does it mean she is not BPD ?

I mean i thought they are black & white with no shades of grey

*My ex was never officially diagnosed by a licensed professional ((he refused to go to a legit T because he feared the T would hypnotise him and make him do obscene things to furniture)).

*My ex shows more 'symptoms' of AntiSocial Behaivor, with a heavy dose of Narcissism.

It takes time, but I don't care what he thinks about me, or how he feels (which is nothing, because he is consumed with himself).

I am sure if you asked him, he would admit he made 1 mistake, but then be quick to say that everything was my fault. He likes to "appear" to take responsibility for his actions, but trust me when I say; it's a lie.

Do whatever it takes to stop your thoughts about her, they 'why's' the 'what if's' and the need for things to 'make sense'.

When those kinds of thoughts come in, replace them with something else... .

Be that a person goal, a dream, Scripture, a poem, ANYTHING.

Start replacing troubling thoughts.

I promise, you will feel SO much better.

[hergestridge]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is obviously very true for my exBPDgf. Also for my father. I remember when I was 20 one day. My father sat down and had a talk with me. He was completely lucid. It was jawdropping. I remember saying to him "dad, what's going on, you're awesome today." It was like he was actually conscious of what was going on around him, and other people. 99% of the time, though, he's in some dreamlike state, meandering around without understanding anything that's going on.

My exBPDgf was the same. She had moments of lucidity, which were absolutely amazing to see. Most of the time, she was in some hypnagogic state. It's sad and heartbreaking.

What is so difficult to wrap your head around when you're in the middle of it, is that it will not last.

For a normal person insight and experience is part of a linear process. If someone has a realization and it outspoken about, it changes the premises from then on. That is not the case with pwBPD. This means the "lucidity" will only keep you trapped in the relationship with its promises, but it will not result in any of the changes in behavior you would normally expect.

If I had known that "lucidity" would not last, I would have left my relationship years and years earlier. But could not imagine that the girl I loved would "know" and the next day "un-know". I couldn't imagine a mental illness of that magnitude.

This is actually very interesting. It describes it very well, knowing and unknowing. Her memory worked the same way. One day she remembered things she had done. The next day she didn't.

One time, we watched a movie. There was a very romantic (although odd) scene, which she loved. When we were watching it, she cuddled up with me in the sofa and said "wow, this is so romantic, I love this movie." Three (yes, 3) days later, the song from that scene came on, on TV. I said "hey, it's that song from that scene." She said "what scene?"

So I searched the scene up on youtube, found a clip from the movie we watched the other night, with music and video and everything. Showed it to her and said "this one, the one we watched the other night which you liked so much." She just looked at me and said "what? I've never seen this movie." coldly. It was really creepy.

I don't know your partner, but I have an alternative interpretation of that episode you describe, because I recognize that so well.

You saw a romantic movie together and it made her feel good. You felt good together, and she validated that verbally. Later you made a reference to this movie, and she thought you were trying to pull her strings and "make her feel good" once again. By this she felt manipulated and therefore she just flat out denied having seen the movie so that she didn't have to travel back (emotionally) to the place where she were all cozy with you.

I know it's bizarre, but that is how my wife worked. If we had a good night together a certain restaurant, she wouldn't go there again and she didn't like me talking about that night. Going there again was often just out of the question.

Sometimes we had really great sex too. Normally she was quite inhibited and cold, but sometimes she just let go. Those times she never talked of afterwards, or just claimed to have forgotten about altogether.

My interpretation of this is that they don't want these "good" moments to be remembered or at least not to be "officially" remembered, because they think that they can be held against them. It's like moments when they let the guard down, and they didn't really mean to.

[LonelyChild]

I don't know your partner, but I have an alternative interpretation of that episode you describe, because I recognize that so well.

You saw a romantic movie together and it made her feel good. You felt good together, and she validated that verbally. Later you made a reference to this movie, and she thought you were trying to pull her strings and "make her feel good" once again. By this she felt manipulated and therefore she just flat out denied having seen the movie so that she didn't have to travel back (emotionally) to the place where she were all cozy with you.

I know it's bizarre, but that is how my wife worked. If we had a good night together a certain restaurant, she wouldn't go there again and she didn't like me talking about that night. Going there again was often just out of the question.

Sometimes we had really great sex too. Normally she was quite inhibited and cold, but sometimes she just let go. Those times she never talked of afterwards, or just claimed to have forgotten about altogether.

My interpretation of this is that they don't want these "good" moments to be remembered or at least not to be "officially" remembered, because they think that they can be held against them. It's like moments when they let the guard down, and they didn't really mean to.

Wow, you really sparked a few thoughts on my end. Your way of thinking about it is very interesting - you might even be right! That is an insanely broken reality to experience though.

[dobie]

Its funny she told my bro she cares about me , but then does not respond to his text asking her for me to be able to email her a few final things .

What they say and their actions = two different things .


Its funny when my bro confronted her with !ogic she couldn't argue I don't think she even knows why she left me ... she claimed it was about !money blsh blah and our bickering and how "we" drifted apart  but like my bro said its more about her not ever being happy and looking for that next fix to fill the emptiness .

[Mutt]

Your bro is right.

Her few final things likely represents attachment to you and it may be why she didn't give him a response.

[dobie]

Your bro is right.

Her few final things likely represents attachment to you and it may be why she didn't give him a response.

No as in I wanted to say a few final things mutt not actual items , we haven't spoken in six months apart from me sending her stupid drunken messages on a few occasions till she blocked me .

I wanted to tell her she meant a lot and that I miss her friendship that I'm better than I was and that even though I realise we can't be together I still want her in my life in some capacity .

She admitted to my bro I was her bf and that she would find it hard to find someone like me to match her on an intellectual level and to be honest that's how I feel as well .

[Reecer1588]

Your bro is right.

Her few final things likely represents attachment to you and it may be why she didn't give him a response.

No as in I wanted to say a few final things mutt not actual items , we haven't spoken in six months apart from me sending her stupid drunken messages on a few occasions till she blocked me .

I wanted to tell her she meant a lot and that I miss her friendship that I'm better than I was and that even though I realise we can't be together I still want her in my life in some capacity .

She admitted to my bro I was her bf and that she would find it hard to find someone like me to match her on an intellectual level and to be honest that's how I feel as well .

I can understand your last statement. I also feel like I understood my exgf on an intellectual level more so than anyone else, and I too believe that she will find it hard to find someone like me. I wish, much like you, that I still had some sort of a relationship with my ex, rather than the deafening silence. Crazy how much I relate to the people on BPDf.

Hope you're doing well, dobie.


~Reece

[jhkbuzz]

The problem is that when you live with some, all of the moments we experience become a patchwork, because everything bleeds together, the good the bad, the odd and the strange. Why? and I have said this countless times... .because all of these nuances and odd behaviors came out of one person, our partners. The body was the same, the face was the same, the voice was the same, the person was the same. It becomes so difficult to distinguish which actions, on the part of our partners, were reasonable and which were not. If the person is the same and they have moments of true lucidity, at what point did that person change or become their other personality?

This is obviously very true for my exBPDgf. Also for my father. I remember when I was 20 one day. My father sat down and had a talk with me. He was completely lucid. It was jawdropping. I remember saying to him "dad, what's going on, you're awesome today." It was like he was actually conscious of what was going on around him, and other people. 99% of the time, though, he's in some dreamlike state, meandering around without understanding anything that's going on.

My exBPDgf was the same. She had moments of lucidity, which were absolutely amazing to see. Most of the time, she was in some hypnagogic state. It's sad and heartbreaking.

What is so difficult to wrap your head around when you're in the middle of it, is that it will not last.

For a normal person insight and experience is part of a linear process. If someone has a realization and it outspoken about, it changes the premises from then on. That is not the case with pwBPD. This means the "lucidity" will only keep you trapped in the relationship with its promises, but it will not result in any of the changes in behavior you would normally expect.

If I had known that "lucidity" would not last, I would have left my relationship years and years earlier. But could not imagine that the girl I loved would "know" and the next day "un-know". I couldn't imagine a mental illness of that magnitude.

This is actually very interesting. It describes it very well, knowing and unknowing. Her memory worked the same way. One day she remembered things she had done. The next day she didn't.

One time, we watched a movie. There was a very romantic (although odd) scene, which she loved. When we were watching it, she cuddled up with me in the sofa and said "wow, this is so romantic, I love this movie." Three (yes, 3) days later, the song from that scene came on, on TV. I said "hey, it's that song from that scene." She said "what scene?"

So I searched the scene up on youtube, found a clip from the movie we watched the other night, with music and video and everything. Showed it to her and said "this one, the one we watched the other night which you liked so much." She just looked at me and said "what? I've never seen this movie." coldly. It was really creepy.

Don't forget, dissociative episodes are not uncommon in BPD.

[ShadowIntheNight]

My ex was capable of remorse and some introspection. I actually found a letter where she apologized to me for making things hard and not being proud of her behavior. I also know that early on in our relationship she was working on finding a way to forgive her exH so she could move on with her life. Well let me tell you, in the 10 years we knew one another she went from not wanting to be married to him to hating his guts, to baiting him so she could emasculate him completely. I am sure she had no remorse. The longer we were together the more it seemed she didn't care about what she said or did to anyone. It's like she felt justified in it. It was like a blackness came over her eyes and she was just petulant. I know we had some stress, but it was never as bad as she turned it into.

[Reecer1588]

My ex was capable of remorse and some introspection. I actually found a letter where she apologized to me for making things hard and not being proud of her behavior. I also know that early on in our relationship she was working on finding a way to forgive her exH so she could move on with her life. Well let me tell you, in the 10 years we knew one another she went from not wanting to be married to him to hating his guts, to baiting him so she could emasculate him completely. I am sure she had no remorse. The longer we were together the more it seemed she didn't care about what she said or did to anyone. It's like she felt justified in it. It was like a blackness came over her eyes and she was just petulant. I know we had some stress, but it was never as bad as she turned it into.

Justified. Interesting that you use that term. When I finally just called out my ex on her manipulative behavior, for example, turning off her read receipts on iphone in order to give me the impression that she wasn't reading my texts (Therefore I'd just keep sending more when I was emotional) she would just respond "I don't have to justify myself to you." On her social media, same deal "You don't have to justify yourself to anyone... ." quotes, things like that. It's like they pervert what other people say, like not having to always justify yourself (fair enough for most people), in order to fit their goals.

Hope that makes sense and was relevant.

[dobie]

OK update she text my bro and said I can email her , I have and offered the hand of friendship let's see how she responds .