my BPD(ex)wife totalled her luxury SUV tonight and is in police custody (D & D)

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Well, ... I predicted this and, sure enough, my ex crashed her $65,000 fully loaded suv and she is now in police custody.  She is a criminal. She performed a criminal act and now she is in a jail cell as I write this.

Thank God no one was hurt.

But I really think that a BPD wants the attention so badly, that the accident was intentional.  Me thinks her parents are totally pissed off now.  If they only woulda listened to me years ago when I was trying to convince them that she was troubled as well as a danger to herself and others.

[ogopogodude]

Well, ... I predicted this and, sure enough, my ex crashed her $65,000 fully loaded suv and she is now in police custody.  She is a criminal. She performed a criminal act and now she is in a jail cell as I write this.

Thank God no one was hurt.

But I really think that a BPD wants the attention so badly, that the accident was intentional.  Me thinks her parents are totally pissed off now.  If they only woulda listened to me years ago when I was trying to convince them that she was troubled as well as a danger to herself and others.

[whirlpoollife]

Just too curious , want are more details?

How are your kids handling this?

[ForeverDad]

So I'm thinking she was intoxicated?  Whatever else you do, don't rescue her or try to fix or hide her problems.  She's a big girl, an adult, these are her consequences.

I figure you're watching the children and the parenting schedule is on hold for now?

[ogopogodude]

she was indeed intoxicated. The attending officer said she was "plastered" and was in police custody.

The parenting schedule is quite simple: the kids (teenagers) want NOTHING to do with their mom. They are with me 99% of the time.  I am the sole parent that does everything.  

Her care is totalled.  A $72,000 SUV that her mommy and daddy bought for her is gone. All airbags deployed, etc-->rolled it etc.  (Hmmm I wonder what color car they will buy her in the summer? A pretty red one this time? Or a nice blue one?).

The kids are not even surprised at all. They were expecting this actually as I predicted it. They are handling this all quite well.

When she called me to start verbal abusing me I asked her calmly what happened, and she staid "I hit a pot hole"

What a joke. I drive on that stretch of road every day. And there is no pothole. ... .not a one. For miles, there are no pot holes. Nor does a pothole (if there was one) cause a normal person to roll their car and deploy all airbags.

If there WAS a pothole, and the accident happened at midnight, this mysterious pothole was fixed rather fast by our wonderful roadway fixing personal in the wee hours of the morning literally right after the accident and before there was any traffic in the morning.

Amazing.

[Matt]

Focus on the kids.  Figure out the best way to talk with them about this - what will help them the most, not what will hurt their mom.

They may act like it doesn't bother them but it does.  That probably means they don't know how to talk about it.  Sooner or later they'll want to know more and they need to be able to trust you to tell them the truth and help them understand it.  I find that difficult (mine are about the same ages) because of my own frustration with their mom and all she has done.

[ForeverDad]

I'm suspecting her license will be suspended for a while, perhaps with work exceptions, though that may not stop her from driving whenever.  The only reason they might not press consequences to the max - and for you and your kids to be thankful - is that she didn't hurt anyone else, imagine if she had hit a carload of people -or kids.

[livednlearned]

The kids are not even surprised at all. They were expecting this actually as I predicted it. They are handling this all quite well.

Matt makes a really good point. The kids are likely going to act as though it doesn't bother them. After years living in a dysfunctional home, they are probably not skilled at figuring out how to express themselves. I found it frightening when my dad was angry at my mom. Even if I felt she had done something wrong, I felt a lot of dread.

Are they in counseling?

[ogopogodude]

no, the kids are not in counselling.  But this would be great if it could actually happen.   My kids totally avoid any conversation about mom. Last night,  I tried to talk to my son about the incident and he went (verbally) ballistic at me even though I was very calm and such. 

My kids have gentics of temper from their mom. Also, they have it in them to avoid topics that they do not want to discuss.  In other words, in this respect they are exactly like the nutty in laws of mine.

I have looked into an outreach therapist and he/she would come to our house to have sessions. This would be the better way of counselling for teenagers.  They need a voice and this would be the avenue.

[Matt]

Last night,  I tried to talk to my son about the incident and he went (verbally) ballistic at me even though I was very calm and such. 

So there you have it - it does bother him and he doesn't have the skills to deal with it well.  Counseling would be best.

My kids were a little younger when I first took them to counseling - about 8 and 10 I think.  I didn't ask them, just told them what was happening.  (Didn't ask their mom either.)  It was helpful for my daughter, who viewed it positively, but maybe not for my son, who didn't buy into it.

I've seen my kids pick up dysfunctional behavior from their mom - all four of them.  At one point, with my oldest, I just laid it out:  "Your mom has been diagnosed with BPD and that means she throws big fits like a child.  You do that too, but I think you learned it - I don't think there's anything wrong with you.  But you have to un-learn it, right here and now, because I won't put up with it anymore."  My boundary for him - he was in his 20s and living with me - was "One more fit and you find another place to live."  That worked - he's never thrown another fit like his mom does.

For younger kids, of course you can't throw them out of the house, but you can provide other consequences.  My S16 wants his drivers license soon, but last time he drove (with me in the passenger seat), he acted like a jerk.  So my boundary was, "If you act like that again you won't drive my car, even with me in it, and you won't get your license."  His behavior has been good since then.

Boundaries for learned behavior they can change, plus counseling to help them, is probably the best you can do.  Plus some understanding and a lot of listening when they are each ready to talk... .

[momtara]

Thank God the kids weren't in the car. These things are always good in case she tries to get custody or whatever. All's well that ends well. No one got hurt and now you don't have to worry as much about proving what you already knew.

[ForeverDad]

While they may have some of their mother's tendencies, at least partly it might be due to the past influence of her parenting.  In other words, to some extent it might be attributed to 'fleas' picked up or left over from the past.  We can even show the fleas themselves here in our posts... .    :'(

Remember, we all have personalities.  And those personalities are all based on a number of traits.  When those traits get unbalanced to an extreme we call it a Personality Disorder.  However, there is a large range between the extremes that is reasonably okay, otherwise we'd all be either intense walking problems or bland identical robots off the assembly line, so to speak.

So counseling would be good for them since they're sensitized to their mother and perhaps also sensitized to some extent with you - you both represent emotionally vested relationships - but that might be overcome with a trained counselor who doesn't come with the emotional baggage from the past and hence allow them to gradually lower their defensive walls.

[willtimeheal]

What bothers me the most about all of this is my exBPDgf was arrest for dwi six months ago. This was her second so it is a felony. But she has yet to go to court. She drives around and still has her job her replacement and acts like life is so great. She is leaving for a vacation today. Driving there. When are these people finally held accountable?  According to her the cop was mean. She simply tried to avoid an animal in the road that's how the car ended up in the ditch. The cop was mean and just felt like arresting her. Such bull! 

I just want her to hurt as bad as I do. I want her to feel an ounce of th  pain she inflicted on me. I just feel these people always walk away without any consequences. Today it has totally pissed me off.

[Matt]

Wasn't her license taken away at the time?  So she's driving around without a license and with a pending felony DUI?

I'm not a psychologist but I've been to the School Of Hard Knocks, and I studied exactly this subject.  (My adult son is a recovering addict who did four months in state prison on a felony DUI.)

When somebody gets a DUI because they made a mistake - goodness knows I've driven drunk more than once so it could have happened to me - that doesn't prove too much except I used some bad judgment.

But when you get a DUI and you don't change your behavior - and even more so, when you have a pending felony DUI and your license has been suspended - and you still don't change your behavior - that isn't bad judgment.  It's serious addiction.  Your ex is an alcoholic.

She won't get her behavior under control without help - AA at the least and probably rehab plus ongoing therapy.  Going to prison - which is likely (if she lived where I do it would be 100% certain) - may be the "rock bottom" which causes her to change.  But not necessarily - after serving four months in state prison - a very traumatic experience - my son was drinking again in 48 hours, thus violating his probation and making a return to prison likely.  (He was able to go to rehab instead of back to prison, and that saved his life.)

I think you have to somehow explain this to your kids, for a few reasons.  One is, they need to understand that they should not get in a car with their mom for any reason.  They may or may not be good at telling if she has been drinking, so it's not OK to say, ":)on't get in the car with her if she has been drinking."

Also, they unfortunately need to learn what alcoholism is and how it works.  It's not a moral failing or a daily choice.  It's a "brain disease", partly inherited and partly the result of childhood trauma.  It's not something their mom can just grit her teeth and defeat (though a few addicts claim they did that).  And it's not something she will ever be cured of, though she may be able to stop drinking if she gets the right help.

And... .if your mom is an alcoholic, there's a higher chance you might develop some addiction too.  So it's an added good reason that your kids should put off drinking - even occasional drinking - as long as possible.  Kids who start drinking in their teens are much more likely to develop an addiction than those who wait til they are older.

It's unfortunately up to you to learn about this stuff and explain it to your kids, maybe with the help of a well-informed counselor.  They need your help to understand what is going on.  And as you do that, you'll have to put aside your anger at their mom - "I just want her to hurt as bad as I do." - it's understandable and I've felt the same, but it's not what your kids need from you you right now.  You'll have to set that aside and focus 100% on helping them understand and deal with what's going on with their mom.

One more thought:  It is likely she will be going to prison.  I'm not a lawyer and things are different in different states.  If she gets a good lawyer it might be plead down to a misdemeanor, but she'll still probably have to spend some time in jail - maybe 10 days or 30 days or 60 days rather than several months in prison.  To the kids, "felony" vs. "misdemeanor" and "jail" vs. "prison" aren't big differences.  What will impact them is that their mom is locked up.  They'll either want to visit her there - a safe but traumatic experience my own kids have been through with their big brother - or they may decide (or you may decide for them) that they won't visit her, so they won't see her at all for some period of time.  In any case, it will have a lot of shame attached, and they will have very strong and confusing feelings about it - anger at their mom, fear for her, shame, etc.

All the more reason to find the right counselor and the right way to explain to your kids why it's important for you all to be in counseling.  Consider finding a counselor for yourself first, not because there's anything wrong with you, but for the same reason as the kids - to help you deal with the stress all this causes - and also so you will be modeling the behavior you want your kids to do - accepting help from a professional.

[willtimeheal]

No her liscense wasn't taken away right then and there. Her lawyer asked for an extension on her court date so it just keeps getting pushed back and back. Love the court system... .She refused a breathalyzer which is immediate loss of liscense but since court has been delayed and she technically isn't guilty until proven guilty she is free as can be right now. And the more time that passes the better chance of her case getting dismissed or pleaded down... .which is a joke. Six months have passed and nothing.  Funny thing is you say jail would be rock bottom... .She already went to jail before for drinking. She doesn't care and the court system doesn't seem to care either.

[Matt]

Trials can take a long time to arrive, and prosecutors sometimes offer plea agreements and sometimes don't.  (Depends largely on their work load;  if they're very backed up they try to get lots of plea agreements done, but if they have time they'd rather offer worse deals so more cases go to trial.)

You have no control over how the court deals with her or whether she decides to get help.

All you can do is help your kids.

[ogopogodude]

Thank God the kids weren't in the car. These things are always good in case she tries to get custody or whatever. All's well that ends well. No one got hurt and now you don't have to worry as much about proving what you already knew.

My kids are far too smart now (and old enough) to not get into the car with their mom.  Me thinks I have to have consequences to get them to spend time with an outreach therapist (one that will come to the house for an hour so that they are in there own element)... .

I think I wil suspend their cell phones if they do not partake in a session. 

Anybody have ideas on how to get teenagers into therapy (at least the occasional session)?



(and yes, I know that his mom's accident did bother my son, ... but my daughter is quite mature and she isn't phased by her mom's odd behaviour for attention getting)

[Matt]

I would not suggest that you use "consequences" (which will be seen as "punishment" to get your kids into counseling.  Then they will see it as something forced on them and they won't take to it.

My suggestion would be to talk individually with each kid, and just be very open about what is going on - tell them what you know but don't beat up on their mom or act like a victim or an amateur psychologist - just tell them what you know and how you perceive things, and why you're concerned for them.  Tell them that you see counseling as a good resource, not because something is wrong with them, but because they are dealing with a lot of difficult stuff and a good counselor will help them consider different ways to deal with it.  The counselor is a resource to help each child, not a head-shrinker who will "fix" them (because they're not broken).

Tell each child, "I found someone who I think will help you, and I made an appointment for Friday at 4:00.  I'll pick you up and take you, and the first session I'll sit in for part of the time, but after that I'll step out and it will be you and Ms. Counselor.  And that will be confidential - she's a resource for you, not for me.  And I'd like you to have an open mind and talk freely with her so she can help."

This approach has worked for me 2/3 of the time.

My youngest - S8 when we separated, 16 now - didn't buy in and was very passive, so nothing was accomplished.  My daughter was 10 when we separated, 18 now, and she took to it and got a lot out of it.  My oldest was in his 20s when we separated - he had been to counselors already because he had a very bad childhood, and was drinking and using drugs, so he wasn't honest with them and nothing was accomplished.  But now he has been sober for several years and has chosen to see a counselor, and that has helped a lot.  So it didn't work at first, but worked very well later.

I don't think you can force a child to benefit from counseling.  Probably the best persuasion I ever used was telling them how much it helped me - not because something was wrong with me, but because I was dealing with difficult stuff - their mother's behavior and their big brother's substance abuse - and I needed someone I could talk to and who could give me good ideas for how to deal with it.  Counseling helped me a lot and I think it will help you too!

[pallavirajsinghani]

I have two teenagers... .so please allow me to chime in with the following tips that work best in our house. (16 Yr old Son & 14 year old Daughter).

1)  Sitting down and talking to them about their Mom is a trigger factor.  So perhaps the better way is to not to address this issue until they bring it up.  First and foremost, it is important to create a safe atmosphere within with to have this discussion.  Their anxiety level at this time is perhaps sky high.  So whenever you can, touch them affectionately, keep your tone very loving... .if they throw a fit, focus on the anxiety behind the fit/tantrum and not on the actual words they are speaking.  For instance... .respond to their rant not with logic but with reassuring emotion like,  "I understand the stress life can cause... ."  and then use it as an opportunity to reassure e.g.,  "I am both your father and your mother... .you are never without a mother because I am your mother too... .as well as your father... ."  Even words like this help restore their disturbed universe to balance.

As you can see... .these are the same validating techniques that everyone talks about.

And please do not justify your wife's behaviour... .it forces forgiveness on children when there cannot be true forgiveness without restitution.  Your wife may show regret... .but regret alone is not enough to restore their inner world... .without restitution... .no acceptance nor forgiveness is possible.

I think that the idea of counseling is wonderful... .

2)  Perhaps telling them that they may have a lot of stuff they don't want to talk to you... .and that a counselor is totally in their corner and they can be fearless there... .encourage them to feel free to speak how they truly feel about you too there... .perhaps if they get the understanding that counseling does  not mean that there is something wrong with them, but just that it is their safe haven... .

3)  Maybe setting up a family counseling first where all of you go through it is a better idea... .because the issue is how to mitigate the negative effects of her disease.  This issue is a common issue and perhaps the children will respond better when it is handled together.  This way, they won't be alone in fighting for normalcy all by themselves with the counselor... .maybe all together will work better.

Thank you for sharing your story... .

[ogopogodude]

Yes, ... thank God for no one being injured.  I am pretty sure that she has had her licence taken away.  I literally just saw her walking on the side of the road with a grocery bag in her hand.  Me thinks it was not a bag from the grocery market, but rather a couple of bottles of wine from the adjacent liquor store, but she at went to the grocery store in order to hide the bottles inside the Market grocery store bag.

Then once she gets to her parent's house (where she lives) she will hide the bottles in the bushes only to retrieve them later... .

Alcoholics think that they can fool people.

[Matt]

Yeah, this is classic alcoholic behavior, and it suggests that she is not accepting the need for change, so she will sink lower.  A felony charge isn't low enough to cause her to change - it will take something worse... .

By the way, alcoholics lie a lot.  You know who told me that?  Every recovering alcoholic I've ever known.  You can tell when an alcoholic is in recovery, because that's when they say, "Alcoholics lie."

All the more reason to focus on supporting the kids.  They'll probably have even worse to deal with, so figuring out how to help them will be even more important.  If they have the right support network in place now, then when something worse happens, they'll be better able to deal with it.

I really like Palla's idea of family counseling to start.  You can all talk with the counselor together - but look at your role as starting the ball rolling, then talking less to encourage the kids to talk more.  That may be the best way to get started with counseling - you can even say, "I need help with this too." - it's not aimed at the kids, it's aimed at helping you all to deal with what's happening.

During counseling, you can model the behavior you'd like to see from your kids, like talking openly about what is really happening - not covering things up - not bashing their mom but observing and sharing what you know - and above all talking frankly about your own feelings about the matter.  As your kids see you opening up, it may be easier for them to do the same.

Then after some number of sessions - maybe 1, or 3, or 10 - you may all decide that it's best for the counselor to talk with each of you individually.  Maybe by that point, the kids will know her better and feel very comfortable talking with her.  And they will have heard her say, "Anything you share with me when we meet is only between you and me - I won't discuss it with anybody else."

[ogopogodude]

Thanks everyone who replied to my topic. 

I am in contact with an outreach therapist that I KNOW the kids will not feel intimidated by at all.  She is a wonderful older lady that would come across as motherly.  She is, however, a tad too much religious that may be a turn off.

[Matt]

Thanks everyone who replied to my topic. 

I am in contact with an outreach therapist that I KNOW the kids will not feel intimidated by at all.  She is a wonderful older lady that would come across as motherly.  She is, however, a tad too much religious that may be a turn off.

Maybe you can tell her how you and the kids feel about religion and she can be understanding about that, and tone it down a bit.

[ogopogodude]

Yes, ... that is exactly what I will do.  This therapist will do just that, but I expect her to season the therapy session with Jesus this and God that, but that's okay. I am a believer as I was raised in such a household, but I am worried that my kids may just start burst out laughing at times during the session, ... then I will get the giggles because they would be laughing.

[Matt]

So there's another challenge:  to help the kids see value in people with different beliefs... .