Introducing myself... asking questions

[llaurnnicole]

Hey everyone 

I've been reading through the forums here for a few weeks (maybe months?) now, looking for all the help I can get in doing life with my BPD husband. Almost a year ago, I found out about a loan he had secretly taken out before we were married. He'd been trying to pay it off without me finding out about it, but as I really started to take control of our finances (i.e. seriously, intentionally budgeting), this was bound to surface.

He had also been going to counseling for a while, mainly to talk about his trauma through childhood, but it wasn't until a few months ago that he was diagnosed with BPD. Since the diagnosis, it seems to me that things have only gotten worse - almost like he uses BPD as a crutch to excuse his behavior.

Only about 3 months or so ago, he started seeing a new counselor who is well versed in BPD. I've gone with on a few occasions, to ask questions about what I can do, how I should be responding, etc, and it's been extremely helpful to me. However, he's expressed that he doesn't like it when I come because the appointment becomes all about me... .I disagree, but I respect his wishes. We were meeting with a marriage counselor as well, but it's been over a month since we've met with him because my husband keeps making excuses about why he can't call and schedule an appointment. (He's in the navy, and the counseling is through the military - he has to be the one to initiate these things, as well as get as 'ok' from his chain of command for every appointment.) The last time he went to an appointment with the BPD therapist, I expressed to him how desperately I want us to meet with the marriage counselor. I know I need someone to talk to, to ask questions of, and to simply tell me that it's ok that I'm hurting.

It's been very lonely for me since his diagnosis (really, since the $ issue was revealed). Where he's stationed is far from my family, and I haven't really had time to make new friends. We used to really enjoy each other's company, and still sometimes do, but more often than not, he shuts down and blames me for not understanding him, not listening to him, etc. Which he says is why he shuts down and locks himself in our bedroom or spends every second of free time playing video games and computer games. I know I'm not perfect. I don't respond to him in the way I should all the time, but I am willing to work on it all. Divorce is not an option to me, unless my life is in danger, which I've never felt with him.


Now a few questions: How should I respond/react to him when he's triggered and completely irrational and hurtful? I've tried everything I could think of from

--trying to comfort him and calm him down (he says this sometimes works)

--patiently waiting for him to talk to me about his thoughts and feelings (usually ends in him leaving the conversation and going to bed, or blaming me for not truly caring about him)

--telling him that what he's saying/doing is hurtful and that I do not accept what feels like emotional and mental abuse (he said this caught him off guard and he felt invalidated)

--and simply ignoring his dysfunction (which usually escalates it as he tries to elicit a response from me)

On of his regular complaints about me is that I never let him get a word in, and that I talk and talk and talk and talk when we're having an argument. I admit that I do talk a lot (I feel I need to use a lot of words to express how I'm feeling - I really don't know how to make things concise, unless I don't fully express myself), but I recognize that he blames me repeatedly for something I may have only done once or twice long ago and have since changed. He doesn't recognize any progress I've made in how I communicate with him.

My next question is how to not take things personally?

Specifically, in relation to this current conflict - I feel like I've exhausted everything I know to do, and I'm drowning.

Yesterday, I confronted my husband about him spending more money secretly (this has been a recurring problem since I found out about the loan, and I've had to take serious control of our finances so he doesn't bankrupt us of what little we have), and when he came home from work, he ignored me and went straight to bed. I had asked him to sit down with me and talk about it, but even when I asked him if I could just listen to how he was feeling, he threw out there that I "never listen, so why bother?" I left him alone, thinking he just needed time to himself.

When he left for work in the morning, he texted me an apology, then went right into attacking me. I told him I really don't want to have this discussion through text, and that I'd like to listen to him when he gets home from work, but the conversation ended with him telling me "go f*** yourself."

Now, I understand that's not uncommon in some people's vocabulary, but I don't swear, and the few times my husband has, I've let him know that I don't tolerate that language, and he's respected that (we've been together 5 years). So for him to say that to me is like him beating me to the ground.

I'm having an extremely hard time not taking that personally... .It's not his norm to swear (at least not around me), much less to sweat at me.

I know from reading the boards here that I'm supposed to be his emotional caretaker and the strong person in the relationship, but how do you do that when they beat you down?

I do have faith, and that has been made stronger through this, but sometimes I feel so weak. I'm feeling selfish - I want a sincere apology from him, not to build him up instead.

I know it wouldn't be constructive to ignore his emotional needs, but I really need guidance on how to carry that out. Do I ignore what he said to me and let him off the hook? Should I be looking at him as someone wounded who was just striking out to protect himself? Wouldn't I be enabling his behavior if I ignored it, essentially telling him that it's ok to speak to me that way, and there won't be any consequences?

llaurnnicole

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ColdEthyl]

Hello, llaurnnicole and welcome! 

First of all, you have come to the right place! We have all experienced the same things you have, and I am sorry you are struggling now. Let's see if we can get some help with that. First of all, I would recommend not telling him about this site, or using it in front of him. Most of the time, this will make pwBPD rage because it makes them feel bad. Plus, I like to think of this place as my sanctuary

Since the diagnosis, it seems to me that things have only gotten worse - almost like he uses BPD as a crutch to excuse his behavior.

He very well could be.

Now a few questions: How should I respond/react to him when he's triggered and completely irrational and hurtful?

First, we have to learn to not JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain). None of these do a darn thing but cause them more irritation and lead to rages. Here's a previous thread where it was broken down pretty well https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0 I would also look into the communication lessons o this site, SET and DEARMAN https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

HOW we say things makes a big impact on pwBPD, and it goes against natural human behavior to not defend yourself or try to explain something to someone who is being irrational.

For an example, if my husband is upset that the toilet lid was left up again (no matter how many times he does it himself, mind you) instead of saying something like "you leave it up, too sometimes. it's not that big of a deal" I say something like "I can see how that's annoying. I will remind the household to watch out for that. Good catch!"

I'm having an extremely hard time not taking that personally... .It's not his norm to swear (at least not around me), much less to sweat at me.

I know from reading the boards here that I'm supposed to be his emotional caretaker and the strong person in the relationship, but how do you do that when they beat you down?

It starts with separating them from the disorder. My dBPDh can and has said some seriously nasty things. At first, before I knew about BPD it really hurt me. But ow I understand that his outbursts are about how he feels at the time. It comes from a horrible vile place from inside him, and he honestly doesn't mean to. That's not to say to sit there and take it. You do not have to and should not. That's where boundaries come in, but that will come later. Right now, focus on 'radical acceptance" https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

I'm feeling selfish - I want a sincere apology from him, not to build him up instead.

You not likely to get it. pwBPD at their core suffer from self-loathing and shame. Admitting fault to them is admitting they are not perfect, which means they are broken and useless in their heads.

Should I be looking at him as someone wounded who was just striking out to protect himself? Wouldn't I be enabling his behavior if I ignored it, essentially telling him that it's ok to speak to me that way, and there won't be any consequences?

You won't be ignoring it. You would be accepting of it... .accepting it will happen, but you will have to change how to do things. How you talk to him, how you react, and how you deal with it. It doesn't seem fair that they are the ones acting badly, and WE have to change, but the honest truth is most of us who end up in these types of relationships are co-dependent, or have something in us that needs to change. As the 'healthier' person, we are way more capable of that change more-so than a pwBPD. Here's a thread about boundaries https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.20

I know I just dumped a bunch of info on you at once, so please ask any questions you might have! I'm glad you found us, and I hope you will feel a little better knowing you are not alone

[an0ught]

  llaurnnicole,

welcome to the board! You really started with a big post laying out everything  . Having such a big first post can be useful as members can and do refer back to it. You may not get all the answer in one go and in any case things will become clearer over time so you may come back to your question in future posts. Don't hesitate to do so  

You have done already a number of very significant steps - you are reaching out for support in multiple directions  . This is a long term effort and any support you have lined up is a plus. A definite big plus is your husband being diagnosed and in therapy!

Now a few questions: How should I respond/react to him when he's triggered and completely irrational and hurtful? I've tried everything I could think of from

--trying to comfort him and calm him down (he says this sometimes works)

--patiently waiting for him to talk to me about his thoughts and feelings (usually ends in him leaving the conversation and going to bed, or blaming me for not truly caring about him)

--telling him that what he's saying/doing is hurtful and that I do not accept what feels like emotional and mental abuse (he said this caught him off guard and he felt invalidated)

--and simply ignoring his dysfunction (which usually escalates it as he tries to elicit a response from me)

When he is completely dysregulated there are two options:

a) trying to validate him (see related workshops) and hope it was not "completely" and he calms down. Otherwise proceed to b)

 b) taking a time-out and stepping away. Possibly signaling that this is temporary and validating that he feels abandoned. Firmly leaving beyond his reach. See workshops on boundaries and time-outs.

Only about 3 months or so ago, he started seeing a new counselor who is well versed in BPD. I've gone with on a few occasions, to ask questions about what I can do, how I should be responding, etc, and it's been extremely helpful to me. However, he's expressed that he doesn't like it when I come because the appointment becomes all about me... .I disagree, but I respect his wishes. We were meeting with a marriage counselor as well, but it's been over a month since we've met with him because my husband keeps making excuses about why he can't call and schedule an appointment. (He's in the navy, and the counseling is through the military - he has to be the one to initiate these things, as well as get as 'ok' from his chain of command for every appointment.) The last time he went to an appointment with the BPD therapist, I expressed to him how desperately I want us to meet with the marriage counselor. I know I need someone to talk to, to ask questions of, and to simply tell me that it's ok that I'm hurting.

MC with a pwBPD can be very stressful and possibly detrimental. It works for some but really has a mixed track record. What is often helpful is if the non member also gets a personal T. The root causes are not problems in the relationship but an unstable BPD individual destabilizing all around them and another now destabilized "non" individual adding to the mix. When the relationship starts melting down big emotions swap from one side to the other and chaos is inevitable. The fix is stabilizing both individually.

You find pointers to validation and boundaries in the LESSONS which is the sticky topic at the top of the staying board.

Again welcome to the board  ,

a0

[llaurnnicole]

ColdEthyl & an0ught, thank you so much for your help! I so appreciate your direction to resources here! It's a relief just knowing that I have this resource and can relate to others on this forum.

I'm anxious about what things will look like when my husband's contract is up with the navy (in 2 months). I'm not sure if we'll have access to a therapist any longer...

He has gotten a few books on BPD - one being the Dialectical Behavior Therapy Workbook. The times he has gone through it, he was really encouraged and excited about it, but he's only picked it up a handful of times. From what you've experienced and heard, do you think it's possible for healing to happen without access to a therapist?

[ColdEthyl]

ColdEthyl & an0ught, thank you so much for your help! I so appreciate your direction to resources here! It's a relief just knowing that I have this resource and can relate to others on this forum.

I'm anxious about what things will look like when my husband's contract is up with the navy (in 2 months). I'm not sure if we'll have access to a therapist any longer...

He has gotten a few books on BPD - one being the Dialectical Behavior Therapy Workbook. The times he has gone through it, he was really encouraged and excited about it, but he's only picked it up a handful of times. From what you've experienced and heard, do you think it's possible for healing to happen without access to a therapist?

From what I understand, most pwBPD don't stick with therapy or if they do, there's not much 'help'. They most likely won't get 'cured' if that's what you are looking for. It is very encouraging that your husband seems to be self-aware, and is trying to help himself. That's great!

We can use the tools, we can learn to communicate better, protect ourselves from rages, implement boundaries... .but for the most part the BPD will still be 'there'.

[vortex of confusion]

From what you've experienced and heard, do you think it's possible for healing to happen without access to a therapist?

I wanted to join ColdEthyl and anOught in welcoming you to the boards!

I want to address this question as well. That is a bit of a loaded question. Having access to a therapist helps but there are no guarantees. My husband sees a counselor but it sometimes feels like he is just going through the motions.

Also, don't forget yourself in this equation. You need to heal as well. Living with a person with BPD or BPD traits is tough, especially when you don't have any knowledge or any tools and have been trying to figure stuff out for a while. A diagnosis is one small piece of the puzzle.

When I came to the boards, I was really focused on what my husband was doing and figuring out how to help him. I have read through the lessons several times and have referred to them at different times. On the first read through, a lot of it didn't make an ounce of sense. And, I had a difficult accepting my role in things. I still sometimes struggle with it. His actions have hurt me. Any normal person would be hurt by the things that my husband has done. What do you do to take care of yourself?