she gave me permission to email I sent this

[dobie]

You said to xxxxx I was your best friend and that you would find it hard to find someone like me to match you on an intellectual level and that's how I feel that's what I miss the most .

The past is the past , we had to break up you did what you needed and it took me therapy and time to accept it and because of it I came out stronger and more whole than I was and for that I thank you .  I faced down demons that I never wanted to acknowledge and came to see the common threads in ALL my relationships the anger the rage the co -dependency the refusal to mature in some aspects of my life the pain I was numbing and denying   .  I know now where the  wound started and how it has been seeping poison into pretty much all aspects of my life and while I have a way to go  I'm on the right path  and its a path I need to walk alone I could never have done it while we were together nor would I have had the impetus to its sad we didn't work but sometimes its just how things have to be "I believe in fate and a reason for everything " and you and our relationship taught me a lot I would not be the man I am and am becoming if I had never met you .

I have no fingers to point no anger or hurt left to project , I don't even want to talk about what happened or whom did or didn't do what none of it matters its over its done but I do care about losing the best thing about us and that's a solid friendship that we had for six years .

I miss being able to share ideas and plans and new things , books , places , discussions over films or art or anything two good friends enjoy about each others company . I miss not being there for you when life gets tough and not be able to hear about your joys and success or sharing mine with you or just laughing together all the things we forgot to do for so long because we were both burnt out from our incompatibility and the stress .

Good friends are like gold they come into your life if your lucky once or twice so when you get them treasure them the people who get you , care about you and you can trust .

That's how I feel about you , I've never wanted to be friends with an ex but then I never had an ex like you who got me and I got them in so many ways  .

I was at xxxx  a few weeks back and xxxx was giving a speech before the animated screening of xxxxx

And I was sitting there thinking how stupid how stupid and sad is this ! that I can't even ask you to come or tell you about it so you could go with her friends and I know you would dig this she would sit there enjoy it and after we would talk and have coffee and she would share her ideas and I would share mine and you know what I wouldn't care if you had a boyfriend because you are one of the coolest chicks I have ever known and I miss hearing you opinions .

I don't want six years to mean nothing and to only take from it me and you turning our backs on each other.

Look its going to feel a bit weird at first and I'm not suggesting we start hanging out lots but it would be nice to catch up every so often feel we can invite each other to cool things or for you to meet my new mates , tell each other places we have been recomend things we both might enjoy . feel like you can call me if you need some help or a problem your worried about or just to tell me what awesome new things are going on with you . I have lots of mates but i don't have many close friends a handful and you were the closest.  I'm not too stupid , stubborn or ignorant to just want to throw that away .

I only have one caveat and that's we never discuss the past we move forward we let it lay . we don't try again we don't point blame we just simply accept we both care about each other and that we both are mature enough to not want to "throw the baby out with the bath water " just because we didn't fit as life partners .

Its your call I respect you and your desicion either way

X

[dobie]

Six days no reply 

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh gosh Dobie,

IDK what to say!  I just would never want you to post this to us and ALSO NOT get a reply! :P

I can understand your thoughts and sentiment. You have expressed them clearly and beautifully.  In many ways, I'm envious, I wish I could write a letter like that to my ex.  Then I am reminded, that it would be wasted, it could give me false hope, I may again feel rejected.

I wish he could hear my words like that, I wish he could respond to the true me.  I just know that he couldn't.  He would respond to whatever is happening inside him.

[dobie]

Oh gosh Dobie,

IDK what to say!  I just would never want you to post this to us and ALSO NOT get a reply! :P

I can understand your thoughts and sentiment. You have expressed them clearly and beautifully.  In many ways, I'm envious, I wish I could write a letter like that to my ex.  Then I am reminded, that it would be wasted, it could give me false hope, I may again feel rejected.

I wish he could hear my words like that, I wish he could respond to the true me.  I just know that he couldn't.  He would respond to whatever is happening inside him.

I know its probably wasted on her but for all she did I also did my part as well , I just didn't understand what I was dealing with nor did I have the skills awareness and tools to cope / help .

I still "love" her there is beauty in her even if she can't see it and its mired with her pd .

I don't know what she will make of it I have four outcomes

1.) She will think its an attempt to gain her back (its not)

2.) She just won't care bye bye dobie

3.) She will think its an attempt to hurt her down the line (,its not)

4.) She will accept

[jammo1989]

Six days no reply 

Hey Dobie, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you know what BPD is so with that in mind, you need to accept that fact that she may not reply, in my personal opinion, I sense that she is after validation/ attention, so with that in mind just your message alone was enough to validate her.  The BPD doesn't understand love, so the deeper you go emotionally the more they will tend to switch off mentally towards it.  I also feel that maybe, she will reply but only when she needs that extra bit of validation or attention from you.  For example, if shes going through a bad patch and when her emotions are getting to much she may reply to your message, along the lines of "Sorry I haven't replied sooner i was... ." When in reality the fact that she heard from you was enough to ease her negative emotions, but this only a short term solution to her problem.  The way they see things and interpret things are a lot different to how us NONs do.  For example, I havent spoken to my ex for 7 months, I have had one missed Face time call from her, and I receive a NO CALLER I.D once a month, I know its her solely on the basis that I have researched a lot about unknown calls and No Caller I.D calls.  My point here is this, If a NON wants to talk to us they will call and leave a voice mail if the call wasn't picked up, they do not by any sense of the word call you on a NO CALLER I.D, and hang up after you say  hello.  Even though i dont know whos calling in her eyes hence the NO CALLER I.D, I am validating her short term need for attention and validation by solely picking up, my only guess is an exes voice is soothing to them, that I will never truly understand.  What im trying to explain to you here is this, she only needs to hear from you to get her fix of validation, if you called her and she hung up she wouldn't feel the need to communicate with you because by you reaching out is enough to soothe that pain.  You HAVE to go NC completely, the fact you emailed her as put the control back onto her, shes now in control if she replies or not, and like I mentioned before she doesnt need to read into the deep meanings of your email she just has to clarify in her head that YOU have reached out to her, and she wont reply now untill she needs that fix again, thats why I think she will hold onto that email as a n excuse to reply to you pretending to be to busy when in reality she didnt have to because you soothed her need for validation by from the seeing your name come up in her email.

Take care of yourself                

[dobie]

Six days no reply 

Hey Dobie, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you know what BPD is so with that in mind, you need to accept that fact that she may not reply, in my personal opinion, I sense that she is after validation/ attention, so with that in mind just your message alone was enough to validate her.  The BPD doesn't understand love, so the deeper you go emotionally the more they will tend to switch off mentally towards it.  I also feel that maybe, she will reply but only when she needs that extra bit of validation or attention from you.  For example, if shes going through a bad patch and when her emotions are getting to much she may reply to your message, along the lines of "Sorry I haven't replied sooner i was... ." When in reality the fact that she heard from you was enough to ease her negative emotions, but this only a short term solution to her problem.  The way they see things and interpret things are a lot different to how us NONs do.  For example, I havent spoken to my ex for 7 months, I have had one missed Face time call from her, and I receive a NO CALLER I.D once a month, I know its her solely on the basis that I have researched a lot about unknown calls and No Caller I.D calls.  My point here is this, If a NON wants to talk to us they will call and leave a voice mail if the call wasn't picked up, they do not by any sense of the word call you on a NO CALLER I.D, and hang up after you say  hello.  Even though i dont know whos calling in her eyes hence the NO CALLER I.D, I am validating her short term need for attention and validation by solely picking up, my only guess is an exes voice is soothing to them, that I will never truly understand.  What im trying to explain to you here is this, she only needs to hear from you to get her fix of validation, if you called her and she hung up she wouldn't feel the need to communicate with you because by you reaching out is enough to soothe that pain.  You HAVE to go NC completely, the fact you emailed her as put the control back onto her, shes now in control if she replies or not, and like I mentioned before she doesnt need to read into the deep meanings of your email she just has to clarify in her head that YOU have reached out to her, and she wont reply now untill she needs that fix again, thats why I think she will hold onto that email as a n excuse to reply to you pretending to be to busy when in reality she didnt have to because you soothed her need for validation by from the seeing your name come up in her email.

Take care of yourself                

Thanks jammo,

Makes sense I mean why wait six days for a simple yes/no ... .She can't use the I was "busy excuse " for longer than a few weeks though

[jammo1989]

Six days no reply 

Hey Dobie, I know this isn't what you want to hear, but you know what BPD is so with that in mind, you need to accept that fact that she may not reply, in my personal opinion, I sense that she is after validation/ attention, so with that in mind just your message alone was enough to validate her.  The BPD doesn't understand love, so the deeper you go emotionally the more they will tend to switch off mentally towards it.  I also feel that maybe, she will reply but only when she needs that extra bit of validation or attention from you.  For example, if shes going through a bad patch and when her emotions are getting to much she may reply to your message, along the lines of "Sorry I haven't replied sooner i was... ." When in reality the fact that she heard from you was enough to ease her negative emotions, but this only a short term solution to her problem.  The way they see things and interpret things are a lot different to how us NONs do.  For example, I havent spoken to my ex for 7 months, I have had one missed Face time call from her, and I receive a NO CALLER I.D once a month, I know its her solely on the basis that I have researched a lot about unknown calls and No Caller I.D calls.  My point here is this, If a NON wants to talk to us they will call and leave a voice mail if the call wasn't picked up, they do not by any sense of the word call you on a NO CALLER I.D, and hang up after you say  hello.  Even though i dont know whos calling in her eyes hence the NO CALLER I.D, I am validating her short term need for attention and validation by solely picking up, my only guess is an exes voice is soothing to them, that I will never truly understand.  What im trying to explain to you here is this, she only needs to hear from you to get her fix of validation, if you called her and she hung up she wouldn't feel the need to communicate with you because by you reaching out is enough to soothe that pain.  You HAVE to go NC completely, the fact you emailed her as put the control back onto her, shes now in control if she replies or not, and like I mentioned before she doesnt need to read into the deep meanings of your email she just has to clarify in her head that YOU have reached out to her, and she wont reply now untill she needs that fix again, thats why I think she will hold onto that email as a n excuse to reply to you pretending to be to busy when in reality she didnt have to because you soothed her need for validation by from the seeing your name come up in her email.

Take care of yourself                

Thanks jammo,

Makes sense I mean why wait six days for a simple yes/no ... .She can't use the I was "busy excuse " for longer than a few weeks though

Yeah but in her head she will use that excuse, they have a big tenancy to lie about everything because they want others to perceive them as better than what they are, trust me, been there done that, i tried for months to get a slender tone belt back off her and I would get a reply 5-6 days later, im sorry i haven't replied sooner as Ive been really busy in work. (Shes never worked a day in her life) shes 25 with 3 kids and on benefits, she made out that after we broke up she was working when in reality she was pregnant again with my replacement 2 months into the relationship.     

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi again Dobi,

You seem like a genuine, heartfelt guy!  

I confess, I took a peek to see if I could understand the context of your r/s in order to be more helpful.

Found this:

Saw my T today, he said it was a form of me punishing myself and no good will come out of a "friendship" or a relationship with this women I need to let her go .

I too am struggling with this thought of being friends.  He had always said that he did want to always remain friends, always being a part of my life.  However, he was stating this to me and our MC.  He likely wanted to be "the good guy."  He likely also DOES want to be friends with me, but doesn't realize that he is sabotaging that as well by his inability to be honest with himself, then me.  Truth is tho, idk if he and I can be friends or not, or how that would go.     I do know that I do self punish.  Ugh!

[Mutt]

Oh gosh Dobie,

IDK what to say!  I just would never want you to post this to us and ALSO NOT get a reply! :P

I can understand your thoughts and sentiment. You have expressed them clearly and beautifully.  In many ways, I'm envious, I wish I could write a letter like that to my ex.  Then I am reminded, that it would be wasted, it could give me false hope, I may again feel rejected.

I wish he could hear my words like that, I wish he could respond to the true me.  I just know that he couldn't.  He would respond to whatever is happening inside him.

I know its probably wasted on her but for all she did I also did my part as well , I just didn't understand what I was dealing with nor did I have the skills awareness and tools to cope / help .

I still "love" her there is beauty in her even if she can't see it and its mired with her pd .

I don't know what she will make of it I have four outcomes

1.) She will think its an attempt to gain her back (its not)

2.) She just won't care bye bye dobie

3.) She will think its an attempt to hurt her down the line (,its not)

4.) She will accept

I'm not sure that I understand the thread title.

She gave you permission?

I don't think that there's a right or wrong or that she has control now. With that being said. She was a significant person in your life and you had a long history together. You suffered loss and it sounds like you miss her.

I can relate that my ex was likely the most influential person in my life. She was the catalyst for my personal growth and change and for that I'm thankful although our belief systems are different. She has a distorted belief state and has maladaptive coping mechanisms and her reality is different than mine. She simply reciprocate my thoughts and feelings similarly where her thoughts are reactions to what she feels. Two very different things. I had to come to terms that a person I truly cared for deeply is suffering from mental illness. I had to face and accept my denial if so thing I did not wish to be.

Her significance is that she helped me turn the mirror on myself. I was able to identify my patterns and behaviors and that I had life long emotional wounds and we were both soothing each other. I can cope from emotional pain from my past and not sooth them in other relationships and accept my past for what is and be happy with myself.

I think you can have compassion with boundaries.

Do you think that you've reached a place in your personal healing where the wounds have healed enough?

[dobie]

Hi again Dobi,

You seem like a genuine, heartfelt guy!  

I confess, I took a peek to see if I could understand the context of your r/s in order to be more helpful.

Found this:

Saw my T today, he said it was a form of me punishing myself and no good will come out of a "friendship" or a relationship with this women I need to let her go .

I too am struggling with this thought of being friends.  He had always said that he did want to always remain friends, always being a part of my life.  However, he was stating this to me and our MC.  He likely wanted to be "the good guy."  He likely also DOES want to be friends with me, but doesn't realize that he is sabotaging that as well by his inability to be honest with himself, then me.  Truth is tho, idk if he and I can be friends or not, or how that would go.     I do know that I do self punish.  Ugh!

My T is a probably right , but the total loss is harder than to keep some part of her .

I can't say I'd like to watch her with her new bf but I accept this is a reality now or at some point .

I had no real closure from her , no chance apart from a few phone calls early on where she acted cold hard and selfish . anway I doubt I will ever hear from her again but at least I can say I left it with me as the "bigger man " .

[dobie]

Oh gosh Dobie,

IDK what to say!  I just would never want you to post this to us and ALSO NOT get a reply! :P

I can understand your thoughts and sentiment. You have expressed them clearly and beautifully.  In many ways, I'm envious, I wish I could write a letter like that to my ex.  Then I am reminded, that it would be wasted, it could give me false hope, I may again feel rejected.

I wish he could hear my words like that, I wish he could respond to the true me.  I just know that he couldn't.  He would respond to whatever is happening inside him.

I know its probably wasted on her but for all she did I also did my part as well , I just didn't understand what I was dealing with nor did I have the skills awareness and tools to cope / help .

I still "love" her there is beauty in her even if she can't see it and its mired with her pd .

I don't know what she will make of it I have four outcomes

1.) She will think its an attempt to gain her back (its not)

2.) She just won't care bye bye dobie

3.) She will think its an attempt to hurt her down the line (,its not)

4.) She will accept

I'm not sure that I understand the thread title.

She gave you permission?

I don't think that there's a right or wrong or that she has control now. With that being said. She was a significant person in your life and you had a long history together. You suffered loss and it sounds like you miss her.

I can relate that ny ex was likely the most influential person in that she was the catalyst for my personal growth and change. She helped me turn the mirror on myself. I was able to identify my patterns and behaviors and that I had life long emotional wounds and we were both soothing each other.

I think you can have compassion with boundaries.

Do you think that you've reached a place in your personal healing where the wounds have healed enough?

I asked my bro to ask her as she blocked me on phone \ FB etc she said yes

I'm not a 100% but I do miss her and I do care I think it would be hard at first but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to mutt .

[Sunfl0wer]

Do you think that you've reached a place in your personal healing where the wounds have healed enough?

Good question!

I was originally comparing my r/s with my uBPDex to my other ex r/s.  I have a friendship with a nonBPD ex so I was reasoning, thinking, well I don't see why I cannot do the same with my uBPDex.

That question you ask is the difference.

My non ex and I were only able to develop a friendship after several years of distance and moving on.

My uBPDex and I, well, I know that I have not finished the healing from our r/s BU.

[Invictus01]

The truth is... .You are probably better off without her in your life. It is tough being friends with a normal ex. A BPD ex... .I wouldn't even try. The problem is that you don't need to be in a relationship with a BPD person for him or her to put you through some weird mindf#ckery. Whether intentional or unintentional, that's just what they do. That's why many of them don't have mane friends or friends at all. It is your choice but if I were, I would just walk away.

[Mutt]

I asked my bro to ask her as she blocked me on phone \ FB etc she said yes

I'm not a 100% but I do miss her and I do care I think it would be hard at first but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to mutt .

A pwBPD have difficulties trusting themselves and others dobie.

Do you think that you've reached a place in your personal healing where the wounds have healed enough?

Good question!

I was originally comparing my r/s with my uBPDex to my other ex r/s.  I have a friendship with a nonBPD ex so I was reasoning, thinking, well I don't see why I cannot do the same with my uBPDex.

That question you ask is the difference.

My non ex and I were only able to develop a friendship after several years of distance and moving on.

My uBPDex and I, well, I know that I have not finished the healing from our r/s BU.

Yes the difference.

Another difference is two healthy adults will provide some closure when a r/s ends, whereas finding closure in a r/s where a partner suffers from a mental  illness are the dynamics. It's incredibly painful when we're not given closure; our partners survive day to day and are often overwhelmed with their feelings and pain and can display little empathy to ex partners or other significant people in that person's life.  

We can give closure to ourselves.

[dobie]

I asked my bro to ask her as she blocked me on phone \ FB etc she said yes

I'm not a 100% but I do miss her and I do care I think it would be hard at first but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to mutt .

A pwBPD have difficulties trusting themselves and others dobie.

So sadly true mutt

[HappyNihilist]

dobie, I'm so sorry you haven't heard back from her.   I know it's painful to be ignored like that.

That was a truly lovely, open, honest email that you sent. There was no blame - you handled yourself with grace and positivity, and expressed a lot of kindness. If I personally received an email like that from an ex, I would be touched and grateful.

I hope that writing all of that out, and sending it to her, helped you. And you should be very proud of yourself for the compassion and honesty you show.

Of course I can't tell you whether or not she'll reply, or what her reaction will be if she does. But I'll share something from my own personal experience that may help. My exBPDbf and I also got along very well most of the time, and I do miss his friendship in a lot of ways.The last email I sent my ex (before I found out he was engaged) had similar elements to the one you sent your exgf.

We had been exchanging emails for a little while at that point. There were no overt attempts to reengage as a couple (although he told me he'd never love anyone the way he loved me, that I was his "angel" and "soulmate," and even wrote me a long poem about how much he loved me). He said he'd missed talking to me and "could email like this with me forever." I'd expressed gratitude about how much he and the relationship helped me become stronger and more in touch with my true self. He seemed quite touched and said, "You have no idea how much it means to me to know that I had some part in helping you find your self-realization."

Then he asked what, exactly, I had learned about myself.

Silly me, I told him. I guess I went into denial about the reality of him and his disorder. I didn't say anything about him - for better or worse, I've always treated our relationship with a great deal of respect, and I certainly don't want to hurt him, plus I did keep in mind enough about who he "really" is to know that I wanted to avoid anything that could be perceived as blaming him.

But I said similar things to your quote below... .about how I had come to see common threads in my life, the unhealthy self-sacrifices I made, how I've been coming to terms with my FOO and especially my mother (which is, ironically, something my exBPDbf always encouraged me to delve more deeply into to "discover" myself), and how I've been denying my true self for my entire life. Like you, I said that these wounds would take a lot of work and time to address, but that I was feeling very positive about being on the right path, even though I was trudging up a mountain in a snowstorm.

Radio silence.  

A couple of weeks later, I learned that he's engaged to my replacement, so I sent him a curt email wishing him a happy marriage - I'm not surprised he hasn't responded since that one, as that was my intent in sending it. I don't wish to be a part of a triangle, because neither I nor his fiancee deserve that.

But it was the complete disappearance after I sent my heartfelt, honest email that truly baffled and hurt me. I'm sure there are several reasons for it, and only he knows the truth. But one of my personal speculations, after a lot of thought, is that he interpreted it as me no longer being a viable "attachment partner." If I'm addressing the very things that made me vulnerable to an attachment with a disordered person, then what good am I to him?

The past is the past , we had to break up you did what you needed and it took me therapy and time to accept it and because of it I came out stronger and more whole than I was and for that I thank you .  I faced down demons that I never wanted to acknowledge and came to see the common threads in ALL my relationships the anger the rage the co -dependency the refusal to mature in some aspects of my life the pain I was numbing and denying   .  I know now where the  wound started and how it has been seeping poison into pretty much all aspects of my life and while I have a way to go  I'm on the right path  and its a path I need to walk alone I could never have done it while we were together nor would I have had the impetus to its sad we didn't work but sometimes its just how things have to be "I believe in fate and a reason for everything " and you and our relationship taught me a lot I would not be the man I am and am becoming if I had never met you .

The most important thing here is that YOU are taking care of yourself and taking control of your life. I know it hurts like hell to be ignored by someone you care about and miss. But you're a strong person, and you will get through this. Keep taking care of You.  

[dobie]

Thank you for sharing happy if she would take me back or give us another chance I'd try (I think I could handle her and us better now )  but I know she won't and part of my healing is "acceptance " she said to my brother if I'd tried early she would have come back and been able to do "it" for another year or so that's why she went NC

She never got me enough to know I never wanted to keep her in a cage , I always wanted her to be free I was hoping we can find that with each other but alas it was not to be .

I never wanted to beg , plead or manipulate even though my heart was shattered that's not love that's not caring that's control and power so I didn't .

[HappyNihilist]

It's obvious that you're a compassionate, loving, accepting person. I'm glad you have a good T who is helping you in your healing process. You sound like you tends toward self-blame, which I definitely empathize with. A big part of the healing process is learning to forgive, love, and accept yourself. 

Thank you for sharing happy if she would take me back or give us another chance I'd try (I think I could handle her and us better now )  but I know she won't and part of my healing is "acceptance "

Oh, dobie, I understand.   

I would take my exBPDbf back, too. Even after one year out, even after knowing everything I know. I see no reason to delude myself or anyone else about that fact.

The reason is because, even though I've seen and am working on my own wounds, I'm not there yet in having healed them - particularly as far as my ex is involved. I'm stronger and wiser and have done a lot of work, and my life overall has improved for it. But when it comes to my ex, well... .

I've had healthy relationships, and not-quite-healthy-but-not-disordered relationships, and I even had a BPD relationship in my younger years. No one has pushed the buttons that my exBPDbf did, or ripped open my core wounds like he did. I like to call it "having the combination to the keypad of my soul." For whatever reasons, this person flays me wide open.

And I've just had to accept that, until I have truly come to healing place with those deep core wounds, I am vulnerable to this particular person. Which means that, until the time comes when I'm not, I need to enforce my defenses with regards to him.

She never got me enough to know I never wanted to keep her in a cage , I always wanted her to be free I was hoping we can find that with each other but alas it was not to be .

Member 2010 has several helpful posts on this concept. Here's an excerpt I found especially enlightening--

Love has been taught to be a choreographed pattern of response to their objectification (nullification of self) with servitude, mirroring, and clinging to ensure that they survive. You will be admired, adored, and then clung to and when you attempt to peel them off and expect them to be self-sufficient - they will scapegoat. The person they perceive as both worthy of serving and holding them hostage is now telling them they are free to be whomever they want to be in life (for adults, authentic love and trust). The borderline perceives this as disapproval of compulsive clinging, which turns to the perception that you left them.

Wanting a partner to be free to be themselves - not looking for control and power in the relationship - is mature, authentic love and trust. The problem with pwBPD is that there is no integrated sense of self to be free.

[dobie]

It's obvious that you're a compassionate, loving, accepting person. I'm glad you have a good T who is helping you in your healing process. You sound like you tends toward self-blame, which I definitely empathize with. A big part of the healing process is learning to forgive, love, and accept yourself.  

Thank you for sharing happy if she would take me back or give us another chance I'd try (I think I could handle her and us better now )  but I know she won't and part of my healing is "acceptance "

Oh, dobie, I understand.  

I would take my exBPDbf back, too. Even after one year out, even after knowing everything I know. I see no reason to delude myself or anyone else about that fact.

The reason is because, even though I've seen and am working on my own wounds, I'm not there yet in having healed them - particularly as far as my ex is involved. I'm stronger and wiser and have done a lot of work, and my life overall has improved for it. But when it comes to my ex, well... .

I've had healthy relationships, and not-quite-healthy-but-not-disordered relationships, and I even had a BPD relationship in my younger years. No one has pushed the buttons that my exBPDbf did, or ripped open my core wounds like he did. I like to call it "having the combination to the keypad of my soul." For whatever reasons, this person flays me wide open.

And I've just had to accept that, until I have truly come to healing place with those deep core wounds, I am vulnerable to this particular person. Which means that, until the time comes when I'm not, I need to enforce my defenses with regards to him.

She never got me enough to know I never wanted to keep her in a cage , I always wanted her to be free I was hoping we can find that with each other but alas it was not to be .

Member 2010 has several helpful posts on this concept. Here's an excerpt I found especially enlightening--

Love has been taught to be a choreographed pattern of response to their objectification (nullification of self) with servitude, mirroring, and clinging to ensure that they survive. You will be admired, adored, and then clung to and when you attempt to peel them off and expect them to be self-sufficient - they will scapegoat. The person they perceive as both worthy of serving and holding them hostage is now telling them they are free to be whomever they want to be in life (for adults, authentic love and trust). The borderline perceives this as disapproval of compulsive clinging, which turns to the perception that you left them.

Wanting a partner to be free to be themselves - not looking for control and power in the relationship - is mature, authentic love and trust. The problem with pwBPD is that there is no integrated sense of self to be free.

Its all so hard to fathom happy , she told me she didn't know who she was and that she used to hang on my every word and now she needs to find herself and that my strong personality consumed her (my words)

I told her I'd never stopped her finding who she was or wanting to do anything only encouraged

She conceded this was a fact .

I've had unhealthy RS before but I was the dynamic nothing like this that's for sure , I'm glad we have both come to awareness about ourselves and our roles happy its sadly something my x will never do .

The best I got was "I did provoke him sometimes and he would have won an argument if he didn't shout "

"Its not fair you deserve a sex life "

Six months post BU when challenged

"I do feel bad for wrecking his bday I should not have done that nor taken him to wedding venues months before the BU "

I was hoping things would get better errr how if you don't talk express and accept responsibility as much as the other if things are not working

That was about the only introspection from her part she ever gave .

[ShadowIntheNight]

First Dobie, let me say I appreciate your strength in writing your email and I am sorry that you haven't yet heard back from her.

I have to say for me personally I would never write such things to my ex. My major reason would be that I would be sharing another deeper part of myself that I am sure would somehow be manipulated and thrown back at me in some way. I know it sounds like my ex is a monster. But she is more of a Jeckyl/Hyde monster. Everyone who knows her thinks she's wonderful. I used to think she was wonderful til the more I read about this illness the more I realize she was using and manipulating me in ways I couldn't even fathom. I truly believe if I ever hear from her again the first thing she will do is apologize. Then she will start to manipulate me back into her life in some way. But that is a big IF. I know what she is now, and I think she knows I know what she is. that's why I haven't heard from her the way others have, nor do I think I'll hear from her. I feel very sure that I would call her on her stuff more than I did in the past and the kid gloves that I came to wear because I didn't want to upset her have been thrown away. No more of that. She couldn't stand not being able to lead me around by the nose.

As Invictus said, I am sure my ex thinks that the reason I haven't chased her as I did the other times is because I didnt really love her. That's right, 10 years of my life, footing the bill on all of our time together, helping her out of untold jams she got herself into because of her irresponsibility, and I don't love her. But I feel pretty sure that the real person who wasn't loved in our relationship was me by her. And that's why I can't and won't be giving her another piece of me.

I would have written a similar note 3 months ago. Not now. Not ever.

And good luck. I hope you do hear something compassionate from her.

[dobie]

Shadow I hear you bro believe me part of me is very angry .

Under the anger though is compassion , she had a rough childhood she has had a lot of issues in the family dynamic that has made her who she is .

I'm not going to ever enable her behaviours or condone them again and my boundaries are becoming inacted but if she was in my life in some capacity I'd like to feel I could love her for the good in her and protect myself from the pd parts .

[Invictus01]

Shadow I hear you bro believe me part of me is very angry .

Under the anger though is compassion , she had a rough childhood she has had a lot of issues in the family dynamic that has made her who she is .

I'm not going to ever enable her behaviours or condone them again and my boundaries are becoming inacted but if she was in my life in some capacity I'd like to feel I could love her for the good in her and protect myself from the pd parts .

My ex was a great person. But the BPD part ruined all that. You can't selectivity take the good in a BPD person and stay away from the bad. It just doesn't work like that with them. She will walk all over those boundaries if she wants something from you because she has no sense of other people's boundaries. And if you envoke them, you will probably end up getting into arguments again and agin which will make that friendship tough to maintain. Remember, you are dealing with a 3 year old in a grown adult body. Can you see yourself having a grown up friendship with a 3 year old?

[dobie]

Shadow I hear you bro believe me part of me is very angry .

Under the anger though is compassion , she had a rough childhood she has had a lot of issues in the family dynamic that has made her who she is .

I'm not going to ever enable her behaviours or condone them again and my boundaries are becoming inacted but if she was in my life in some capacity I'd like to feel I could love her for the good in her and protect myself from the pd parts .

My ex was a great person. But the BPD part ruined all that. You can't selectivity take the good in a BPD person and stay away from the bad. It just doesn't work like that with them. She will walk all over those boundaries if she wants something from you because she has no sense of other people's boundaries. And if you envoke them, you will probably end up getting into arguments again and agin which will make that friendship tough to maintain. Remember, you are dealing with a 3 year old in a grown adult body. Can you see yourself having a grown up friendship with a 3 year old?

She was high functioning , her issues were her total selfishness  , sulking , anxiety , passive aggressive , irritability , depression , need to soothe , lack of self , paranoia , victim mentality etc

Things a a friend I would not have to deal with .

Anyway its a moot point she is full of anger and resentment at the moment and playing the victim plus she does not need me


The more i type the more i remember the more I think I must be mad for wanting to be friends with her I'm just hoping praying she would show me a glimer of redemption for her as a person .

Ever the optimist when it comes the people its my life long problem

[apollotech]

"She was high functioning , her issues were her total selfishness  , sulking , anxiety , passive aggressive , irritability , depression , need to soothe , lack of self , paranoia , victim mentality etc

Things as a friend I would not have to deal with .

Anyway its a moot point she is full of anger and resentment at the moment and playing the victim plus she does not need me


The more i type the more i remember the more I think I must be mad for wanting to be friends with her I'm just hoping praying she would show me a glimer of redemption for her as a person ."

dobie,

Why do you think that you would not have to deal with these "things" if you were only her friend? Do you think she'd be able to put everything that y'all had been to one another out of the new relationship, and thereby, only see you as a friend? That would require a great deal of emotional maturity, which is absent in a pwBPD. The aforementioned task is/would be a difficult expectation for anyone to field. A Non can pull it off because he/she can manage, to some degree, impulse control via emotional maturity, feelings can be overridden by reasoning.

You can't place and enforce boundaries against the behaviors that you listed above AND maintain the relationship because those manifestations are of her BPD disorder: they are her. Boundaries only work in maintaining a relationship if they are respected. Yes, you can set/enforce boundaries to protect yourself, but ultimately they are a failure as the relationship cannot be maintained. We cannot control their behavior, and sadly, they also cannot control their behavior.

Like you, I want to be able to maintain some type of relationship with my BPDexgf as our history goes all the way back to childhood. Regardless of our romantic debacle, I do miss her, my friend, and her company. But, to have her, in any capacity, would require that I have to sacrifice myself. That, I am unwilling to do. How do both parties remain safe while, at the same time, maintain the relationship?

Your letter is the best that I have seen written on these boards. I understand exactly where you are coming from. I am with you. But, I do not know how to make it work. Take care of you in all of this!

[Infern0]

Six days with no response speaks volumes.

Remember what the pwBPD are like during idealization phase, how they respond to every text within seconds,  how they always answer the phone on the first ring. Remember how they are NEVER "too busy " to talk to someone they want to talk to

She has read it and she couldn't care less.  YOU ARE NOT EVEN WORTH ACKNOWLEDGING in her mind

Sorry bro but any further contact from this stage is you grabbing a shovel and burying your self esteem further and further.

I don't want to see you do that to yourself.

[Infern0]

I tried to be friends with my pwBPD several months after our breakup.  It was a tough thing to do but we did strike up a friendship.  (When SHE was ready of course). Over the course of the next 6 months she chipped away at my boundaries and seduced me into giving "us" another try.

She told me how she'd grown as a person,  how she was truly sorry and how she loved me and wanted to make it work,  how it would all be different this time.  How I knew her better than anyone.

One month later she stopped replying to my texts and when I called she was "tired and stressed out from work"

I knew what was coming,  I'd seen it before and sure enough I'd been replaced with a guy she met on a weekend away just before we'd got back together. 

All our history,  everything we'd been through,  all my effort learning about BPD were for naught when she can just go away for a weekend,  meet a guy at a party,  talk for 5 minutes and idealize him there on the spot.  And that's it,  I'm gone just like that.

In a few weeks time I'll probably hear from her, he doesn't seem like a codependent,  he'll just use her sexually, defile her with sordid and disgusting acts, probably let his friends join in and yse her and dump her like most of the guys "she really likes" and then try come back to me, and it'll be  "I'm so sorry I was so depressed I didn't know what I was doing"

I'm not about that life anymore Dobie,  recommend you abort as well.

[dobie]

Apollo : I hear you but those aspects would be manageable I assume because of the infrequency of contact ? I mean seeing someone every few months or an occasional email /phone call etc is not as draining and hard to enforce boundaries as when that person is in your life every day .


Inferno : did you leave her initially or did she leave you ? My x has never recycled her old bfs its more cut and run ... .She is not a full BPD rather she has the traits or behaviours she is capable of logic her profession is law just her feelings are more intense and real than facts most of the time .

She is paranoid so I'm not sure why she has not responded she wanted me to it could be as you said I mean nothing or it could be fear and anger .

She wanted to leave me and let me "let her go" so I doubt she would recycle ever .

[Infern0]

Apollo : I hear you but those aspects would be manageable I assume because of the infrequency of contact ? I mean seeing someone every few months or an occasional email /phone call etc is not as draining and hard to enforce boundaries as when that person is in your life every day .


Inferno : did you leave her initially or did she leave you ? My x has never recycled her old bfs its more cut and run ... .She is not a full BPD rather she has the traits or behaviours she is capable of logic her profession is law just her feelings are more intense and real than facts most of the time .

She is paranoid so I'm not sure why she has not responded she wanted me to it could be as you said I mean nothing or it could be fear and anger .

She wanted to leave me and let me "let her go" so I doubt she would recycle ever .

She left me. Although I did and said some things I regret that first time around which I wondered if they were why she left,  I felt like maybe I pushed her into my replacements arms. Although in reality her behavior was unacceptable by normal standards,  I later rationalized them based on the BPD.

This time around I didn't put a foot wrong,  I was supportive,  loving and understanding.  I was strong and I was there for her.

She still found a way to ruin it. 

[dobie]

Apollo : I hear you but those aspects would be manageable I assume because of the infrequency of contact ? I mean seeing someone every few months or an occasional email /phone call etc is not as draining and hard to enforce boundaries as when that person is in your life every day .


Inferno : did you leave her initially or did she leave you ? My x has never recycled her old bfs its more cut and run ... .She is not a full BPD rather she has the traits or behaviours she is capable of logic her profession is law just her feelings are more intense and real than facts most of the time .

She is paranoid so I'm not sure why she has not responded she wanted me to it could be as you said I mean nothing or it could be fear and anger .

She wanted to leave me and let me "let her go" so I doubt she would recycle ever .

She left me. Although I did and said some things I regret that first time around which I wondered if they were why she left,  I felt like maybe I pushed her into my replacements arms. Although in reality her behavior was unacceptable by normal standards,  I later rationalized them based on the BPD.

This time around I didn't put a foot wrong,  I was supportive,  loving and understanding.  I was strong and I was there for her.

She still found a way to ruin it. 

How long before the first BU that she was happy to start being "friends" bro?

[Infern0]

Apollo : I hear you but those aspects would be manageable I assume because of the infrequency of contact ? I mean seeing someone every few months or an occasional email /phone call etc is not as draining and hard to enforce boundaries as when that person is in your life every day .


Inferno : did you leave her initially or did she leave you ? My x has never recycled her old bfs its more cut and run ... .She is not a full BPD rather she has the traits or behaviours she is capable of logic her profession is law just her feelings are more intense and real than facts most of the time .

She is paranoid so I'm not sure why she has not responded she wanted me to it could be as you said I mean nothing or it could be fear and anger .

She wanted to leave me and let me "let her go" so I doubt she would recycle ever .

She left me. Although I did and said some things I regret that first time around which I wondered if they were why she left,  I felt like maybe I pushed her into my replacements arms. Although in reality her behavior was unacceptable by normal standards,  I later rationalized them based on the BPD.

This time around I didn't put a foot wrong,  I was supportive,  loving and understanding.  I was strong and I was there for her.

She still found a way to ruin it. 

How long before the first BU that she was happy to start being "friends" bro?

After the first breakup she replaced me before she actually dumped me (just went quiet for a couple of weeks) then as soon as she replaced me she hinted at having made a mistake and wanted to talk. I told her to make a choice if she wanted to work on us or not and she wanted me to "be friends and we can try again if this guy doesn't work out"

I unleashed a torrent and got painted black. I went hard no contact and didn't hear from her for about 2 months when she started begging me to talk. I actually thought her replacement hadn't worked out and I guess curiosity to see what she had to say.

Anyway she was civil and we had a talk she even bought up about some of the good old days.  I thought I could handle talking to her now and then and not being enemies.

Slowly we talked more and more and eventually she wanted to hang out because she was upset so we went for a walk on the beach.  She ended up kissing me and the dynamic changed.  Over the next couple of months we slept together a couple of times.  She was with my replacement still at this stage but telling me she still loved me. After a little while I told her it had to stop because it's not right. She broke up with my replacement and I tentitivley got back with her. Everything was fine for like a month then she vanished on me.

This time I knew what was happening so I just let her go. Less humiliating that way. I gave someone who was begging me for a second chance,  a second chance. I forced myself to trust someone I knew wasn't trustworthy.  Hard to have to go through it a second time but at least I didn't go insane this time.

I can't tell you what to do,  sometimes we need to get kicked in the nuts a couple of times before it sinks in. I loved this woman with all my heart.  I'd have given my life for her.  I had faith in her and I be lived in her.  And it was all for nothing.

I'm not a pathetic guy,  I'm decent looking,  in shape have a good job,  good friends etc. Twice now she's dumped me on my head for druggie loser types.  Downgrades.  It's not about who you are,  you WILL be devalued and there is no way to stop it,  you can't stop it and neither can your pwBPD.  They don't want to do it,  they just can't help it,  it's as inevitable as breathing. And when you get devalued it's a case of every single guy who talks to your girlfriend could steal her off you.

Maybe you can learn from my mistakes?  There is no hope.  None.

[Infared]

I do not know about anyone else, but the language here disturbs me:

"She gave me permission to email"

"but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to.

Also, I think that this is fantasy thinking:

"She was high functioning , her issues were her total selfishness  , sulking , anxiety , passive aggressive , irritability , depression , need to soothe , lack of self , paranoia , victim mentality etc "

"Things as a friend I would not have to deal with." .

Why would you not have to deal with these personality traits? That is who she is?

I am pointing this out to you dobie because when I was still in the FOG this is maybe what my language or thinking may have been... .but as I moved away from that and started to heal, I was not using language like that and I was starting to see the true from the false.

I was seeing her unhealthiness and my part in the dysfunctional dance, as well.

BTW ... .I was not able to do that on my own. My therapist pointed these things out to me.

[dobie]

Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick .

You guys are right how can I be friends with a person who never once showed any sadness over the BU after the first week , who selfishly trashed everything before she left so as to cause me maximum damage showed no empathy or remorse and screamed she should have left me years ago and only showed remorse for the money she had spent in our home and as a couple ... .

Once she worked out she could live without me (I.e I'm no longer needed)

Who is so emotionally stunted she couldn't even understand or sympathise with all the pain and grief  she put me through and who can't even be bothered to reply after over six years to an email or even feel sorry for the sadness of a six year r/s ending

who admitted even her previous bfs were just there for her use and needs .

I need to stop projecting she is not some poor troubled soul with goodness in her she is a mentally I'll person who only cares about herself first and foremost and uses and discards people .

[Infared]

Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick .

You guys are right how can I be friends with a person who never once showed any sadness over the BU after the first week , who selfishly trashed everything before she left so as to cause me maximum damage showed no empathy or remorse and screamed she should have left me years ago and only showed remorse for the money she had spent in our home and as a couple ... .

Once she worked out she could live without me (I.e I'm no longer needed)

Who is so emotionally stunted she couldn't even understand or sympathise with all the pain and grief  she put me through and who can't even be bothered to reply after over six years to an email or even feel sorry for the sadness of a six year r/s ending

who admitted even her previous bfs were just there for her use and needs .

I need to stop projecting she is not some poor troubled soul with goodness in her she is a mentally ill person who only cares about herself first and foremost and uses and discards people .

"I need to stop projecting she is not some poor troubled soul with goodness in her she is a mentally ill person who only cares about herself first and foremost and uses and discards people ."

Put that on the rinse and repeat cycle in your head... .let the truth was over you. 

[apollotech]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

[dobie]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

[Mutt]

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Don't be hard on yourself. How long did the idealization phase last with your ex? How long did she get you until she started ignoring you and it was all about her needs, push pull and blaming you for her ailments?

Do you think perhaps your not ready to date?

[dobie]

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Don't be hard on yourself. There's not one magical person despite what we may culturally think. We're compatible with many people.

Do you think perhaps your not ready to date?

I'm aware of red flags now mutt , I'm 37 never met a women like her probably never will again .

That's the tragedy . that's the grief for me ... .

On the other hand she told me repeadetly she could never meet a man like me till we broke up and told me she could .

[Infared]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

[Maternus]

She can't use the I was "busy excuse " for longer than a few weeks though

That was the excuse of my ex for not responding to emails: "I was busy". We had a lot of things to settle, we just rented a house together and I subscribed for all the contracts regarding the house for electricity, internet, tv, heating costs and so on. But she travelled with my replacement to her mother - to introduce him to her after two weeks of our breakup - didn't respond to my emails and when I broach the subject of our contracts again, she answered "I was busy". "I was busy" was also her answer when I asked her, who she's doing. No word about how she is thinking about the breakup, no emotional response, she was busy, life goes on, break ups are normal and there are more important things to do, than to think about a lost relationship.

[dobie]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

Thanks bro I felt almost suicidal today (just a feeling not acting never would ) I'm so annoyed with myself I mean this women fancied me while I had a gf and she had a bf she even got him to invite me to her bday party because she wanted me she then hunted me down till she did .

She even told me early on in the r/s that the one time she was dumped she was only upset because she had no one else in her life and the guy she left for me (three years together) she stopped fancying after three weeks but stayed with him as she wanted someone stable I mean ffs where was my alarm bells !

[Infared]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

Thanks bro I felt almost suicidal today (just a feeling not acting never would ) I'm so annoyed with myself I mean this women fancied me while I had a gf and she had a bf she even got him to invite me to her bday party because she wanted me she then hunted me down till she did .

She even told me early on in the r/s that the one time she was dumped she was only upset because she had no one else in her life and the guy she left for me (three years together) she stopped fancying after three weeks but stayed with him as she wanted someone stable I mean ffs where was my alarm bells !

Hindsight is perfect sight... we just were excited in the relationship and thought that those things would never happen to us. Right?

I think we have all been in that place after these relationships and we have to REALLY a focus on forgiving ourselves for our folly. I know in my case all the information was there even before date one. Really obvious in hindsight... .

[dobie]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

Thanks bro I felt almost suicidal today (just a feeling not acting never would ) I'm so annoyed with myself I mean this women fancied me while I had a gf and she had a bf she even got him to invite me to her bday party because she wanted me she then hunted me down till she did .

She even told me early on in the r/s that the one time she was dumped she was only upset because she had no one else in her life and the guy she left for me (three years together) she stopped fancying after three weeks but stayed with him as she wanted someone stable I mean ffs where was my alarm bells !

Hindsight is perfect sight... we just were excited in the relationship and thought that those things would never happen to us. Right?

I think we have all been in that place after these relationships and we have to REALLY a focus on forgiving ourselves for our folly. I know in my case all the information was there even before date one. Really obvious in hindsight... .

Man I was dumb , niave and selfish I'm glad I'm a better person now than I was 7 years ago if a women said that to me now I'd 180 her

I didn't even know about BPD till I started posting about the BU on another forum and her behaviours and people were like "she sounds like she has BPD traits "

Came here and low and behold I find similarities left right and centre with other posters and my x was a "mild case" I don't know how some of the guys and gals rode that ride with the more obvious or intense BPDers

[dobie]

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

hi mutt

sorry missed the question

she idealised me for the first 4-5 years though her other bad traits were there id say the last couple of years esp the last year or so she really started the anxious thinking about us the paranoia about me screwing her over or her being left with nothing if we broke up money , safety and security are issues with her the are we right for each other comments , what do we have in common why am i still so unhappy etc etc her admittance she had been distancing herself from my family etc etc


its all so hard to work out i met her when she was 23 she left me just before she turned 30 immature yep paranoid yep victim mentality yep need for soothing yep anxious attachment style yep

BPDer i don't know

Don't be hard on yourself. How long did the idealization phase last with your ex? How long did she get you until she started ignoring you and it was all about her needs, push pull and blaming you for her ailments?

Do you think perhaps your not ready to date?

[Sunfl0wer]

I asked my bro to ask her as she blocked me on phone \ FB etc she said yes

I'm not a 100% but I do miss her and I do care I think it would be hard at first but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to mutt .

A pwBPD have difficulties trusting themselves and others dobie.

Do you think that you've reached a place in your personal healing where the wounds have healed enough?

Good question!

I was originally comparing my r/s with my uBPDex to my other ex r/s.  I have a friendship with a nonBPD ex so I was reasoning, thinking, well I don't see why I cannot do the same with my uBPDex.

That question you ask is the difference.

My non ex and I were only able to develop a friendship after several years of distance and moving on.

My uBPDex and I, well, I know that I have not finished the healing from our r/s BU.

Yes the difference.

Another difference is two healthy adults will provide some closure when a r/s ends, whereas finding closure in a r/s where a partner suffers from a mental  illness are the dynamics. It's incredibly painful when we're not given closure; our partners survive day to day and are often overwhelmed with their feelings and pain and can display little empathy to ex partners or other significant people in that person's life.  

We can give closure to ourselves.

How, Mutt?  How did you give closure to yourself?  I'm not sure what that would look like.

[Pingo]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

[Invictus01]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Bingo. And the worst thing in all this is that "perfect" is a moving target and you don't even know what it is that you need to do to make things perfect. For that matter, they don't know it either and will never be able to communicate it with you. And on top of all of this, from everything I have read, you will NEVER get back to that initial "perfect" relationship you are trying to get back to. At least for any extended period of time. I am not sure how it is possible to ever be happy in a relationship like this.

[jhkbuzz]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Very well said.

I think any time I considered a recycle attempt I was ruminating on the very beginning of the r/s when things were good. But Pingo is absolutely right - while you may be idealizing the r/s in your imagination, the anxiety, stress, chaos and depression that would arise the minute problems started to crop up would absolutely flatten you emotionally.

Dobie, you are grieving HARD.  We understand. You are ping ponging between the anger and depression stages of grief - we can all relate.

Here are some truths:

• If you are really honest with yourself, you will admit that, in your heart of hearts, you want much more than a "friendship" with your ex - you want her back.



• It would be very, very difficult to maintain a friendship when you want more than a friendship. That, in essence, is self-inflicted torture.



• There is probably a disconnect between what your head knows (GET OUT!) and what your heart wants (HER!)

We have ALL been where you are - all of us.  But there are many of us that can also tell you that, as you come to the accept that the r/s is over; as you implement n/c; and as you allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and experience the pain in its fully glory, you WILL start to heal.  YOU WILL.  It takes time, but you will get there. And your life will be immeasurably better without the chaos that a mentally disordered person brings to the table.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.

[ShadowIntheNight]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

My issue has more to do with now I know some guy has been pulled into her life and of course he is going to be ruminating and begging her to get back together all the time. And of course she will be doing it behind my back and then saying things like "he just won't let it go," not only because she is still keeping him hanging on, but also because it is her way to keep me off balance of her staying or going. I never recognized that behavior in her when we were together. I actually ignored it, thought it was immaturity on her part. But I think deep down it made me work harder to keep her. And that was really what she was after anyway. As if it mattered in the end, right?

And frankly, knowing that she's told someone else that she loves him and ALL that goes with that, it would be all I could do not to punch her in the nose when I was with her. I'm not even sure I love you or I've got your back would or could ever come out of my mouth again when it comes to her.

[dobie]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Very well said.

I think any time I considered a recycle attempt I was ruminating on the very beginning of the r/s when things were good. But Pingo is absolutely right - while you may be idealizing the r/s in your imagination, the anxiety, stress, chaos and depression that would arise the minute problems started to crop up would absolutely flatten you emotionally.

Dobie, you are grieving HARD.  We understand. You are ping ponging between the anger and depression stages of grief - we can all relate.

Here are some truths:

• If you are really honest with yourself, you will admit that, in your heart of hearts, you want much more than a "friendship" with your ex - you want her back.



• It would be very, very difficult to maintain a friendship when you want more than a friendship. That is, in essence, self-inflicted torture.



• There is probably a disconnect between what your head knows (GET OUT!) and what your heart wants (HER!)

We have ALL been where you are - all of us.  But there are many of us that can also tell you that, as you come to the accept that the r/s is over; as you implement n/c; and as you allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and experience the pain in its fully glory, you WILL start to heal.  YOU WILL.  It takes time, but you will get there. And your life will be immeasurably better without the chaos that a mentally disordered person brings to the table.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.

Beautiful post thank you in fact thank all of you this board and its members have been great .

The thing is I don't know for sure she is BPD or has the traits as she is undiag if I look at behaviours I see without doubt

Emotional Immaturity

Fits of anxiety /depression

Need for soothing  

Weak sense of self

Paranoia

Distrust

Idealisation

Victim mentality

Low to no empathy

Use and discard

No real long term stable friendships apart from one perhaps

An emotionally abusive alcoholic father

Passive aggressive behaviours

Selfishness

An Insecure attachment style

Feelings of being boring and uninteresting

Never any lasting happiness moments but never for long



My point is I'm not sure if I'm dealing with a BPDer , or someone without mental illness who is just not very nice  a lot of the time .

Yes I am escalating between grief and anger I was hoping a friendship with my eyes open would burn out any grief or feelings I had .

[Sunfl0wer]

Please hear me... .

I am NOT being sarcastic or a wise guy in anyway when I ask... .

What do you hope to get out of a clearly defined label?

[dobie]

Please hear me... .

I am NOT being sarcastic or a wise guy in anyway when I ask... .

What do you hope to get out of a clearly defined label?

Hi sunflower

Thank you BTW for the lovely pm just got back from work but will reply later 

I guess I want to know if she is "normal" is the BU normal are the behaviours normal or is she I'll ... .if she is I'll then I can feel compassion and hope I guess .

[Pingo]

Dobie, I know you would really like to know one way or another if she is BPD... .most of us on here have exes that are undiagnosed. Something brought you to this site. Your experience is what matters, not the label. I have no idea if my ex is BPD. He is actually more likely PPD... .and he has a brain injury so it really confuses things. In the beginning I really wanted to sort it out but as time passed I realised it doesn't matter. What matters is that he treated me in a way that caused me pain. I deserved better. And it was obvious that I could not fix or save him. That was not my job. That was his.

What jhkbuzz said was spot on... .it does get better with time, staying NC is important to your own mental health. It is painful as hell but there is light at the end of the tunnel and you will come to be able to see her from a more objective place, taking care of yourself first and foremost. Hang in there! 

[Invictus01]

Only a psychiatrist who has met with her for a long time (months if not a years) can tell you if your ex has a personality disorder. However, the very same psychiatrists will tell you that (a) the vast majority of PD people won't go into an evaluation, (b) out of those who will go in, many will be misdiagnosed with something else for various reasons, (b) out of those who are actually diagnosed with a PD, many will not go into treatment. So, basically, only select few will be diagnosed with BPD and seek treatment for it. And by the way, even after years of treatment they might not get better. So, in many cases, the only thing you can go by is what you went through and how it compares to warning signs that are readily available. You also can compare what you went through with other people's experience. The crazy thing about all that is that in most cases, all of those stories read like an exactly the same story, just different characters involved.

[Sunfl0wer]

Dobie,

NP, you had me worried a couple of posts back.

Anyway, "normal" is a subjective term.

Mutt hasn't responded yet, I'm sure he will, but I am wondering what it is we need to do for ourselves to find closure.

I imagine that you likely want to label her in order to find a sense of closure for yourself.

It would be easy for me to say that my ex "has N/BPD," metaphorically just throw that stamp on his head. That in a way, could bring me closure.  I could use that stamp to console myself and tell myself that he was never relationship material to begin with.  I could use that information to tell myself that dispite all my "perfect' efforts, even if he were to date Jesus Christ, Miss perfect herself, that he had no chance in a relationship.  I admit, yes, this would help bring me closure.

Unfortunately, this is not what I am left with.  I have a man, a wonderful man, I loved dearly, was devoted to, and it did not work out.  I DO need to find a way to come to terms with that.

There will never be a stamp on his forehead that says "N/BPD" and ooh, in a perfect world, I WISH someone would stamp that damn forehead for all to see.

But then in all fairness, my forehead too would be stamped with a red flag of PTSD, and others would be stamped with other things too.  Someone could be stamped with "will get terminal cancer in 5 years."  Ya just never know what will be on all of our foreheads!

I guess what I'm saying is that you will likely never get that stamp you are looking for.  It will never be presented to you in such black and white terms.

Life is shades of grey.  Coping with this, is more shades of grey.

I wish there was a simple answer.  I haven't seen one yet.

I hope someone reads my words and challenges me and shows us both proof of the simple answer for our struggle.

I think though the point of the lesson that we are supposed to gather through this mixed up journey, is that there is VALUE in this struggle.  This damn struggle that we want off of us has meaning and purpose, we just have to face it, not try to rid ourselves of it with a stamp.

I think it is easy for some, you may see that it may be "easy" for some that have brandished their SO with a "BPD stamp."  They can "blame" so much misfortune on that stamp.  And JUSTIFIABLY so, I suspect things are not that easy for anyone.  I am open to ideas and understanding, I am not a senior member here by any means, just under a month, however, I suspect stamping people does not make our lives easier.  Sometimes it is a coping mechanism in itself, sometimes it can prevent us from doing the work we NEED to do and looking into ourselves.  Other times maybe it serves a more useful purpose.

I may feel differently as time passes, however, these are my thoughts to share today.

I hope you are doing better Dobie!

[jhkbuzz]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Very well said.

I think any time I considered a recycle attempt I was ruminating on the very beginning of the r/s when things were good. But Pingo is absolutely right - while you may be idealizing the r/s in your imagination, the anxiety, stress, chaos and depression that would arise the minute problems started to crop up would absolutely flatten you emotionally.

Dobie, you are grieving HARD.  We understand. You are ping ponging between the anger and depression stages of grief - we can all relate.

Here are some truths:

• If you are really honest with yourself, you will admit that, in your heart of hearts, you want much more than a "friendship" with your ex - you want her back.



• It would be very, very difficult to maintain a friendship when you want more than a friendship. That is, in essence, self-inflicted torture.



• There is probably a disconnect between what your head knows (GET OUT!) and what your heart wants (HER!)

We have ALL been where you are - all of us.  But there are many of us that can also tell you that, as you come to the accept that the r/s is over; as you implement n/c; and as you allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and experience the pain in its fully glory, you WILL start to heal.  YOU WILL.  It takes time, but you will get there. And your life will be immeasurably better without the chaos that a mentally disordered person brings to the table.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.

Beautiful post thank you in fact thank all of you this board and its members have been great .

The thing is I don't know for sure she is BPD or has the traits as she is undiag if I look at behaviours I see without doubt

Emotional Immaturity

Fits of anxiety /depression

Need for soothing  

Weak sense of self

Paranoia

Distrust

Idealisation

Victim mentality

Low to no empathy

Use and discard

No real long term stable friendships apart from one perhaps

An emotionally abusive alcoholic father

Passive aggressive behaviours

Selfishness

An Insecure attachment style

Feelings of being boring and uninteresting

Never any lasting happiness moments but never for long


My point is I'm not sure if I'm dealing with a BPDer , or someone without mental illness who is just not very nice a lot of the time .

Yes I am escalating between grief and anger I was hoping a friendship with my eyes open would burn out any grief or feelings I had .

I bolded the ones that fit for my ex - who is undiagnosed as well.

But is having an "official" diagnosis really important anyway?

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Try to get the focus off her (and her possible BPD for a moment): Is who she is and the r/s you had what you envision a close, intimate, fulfilling r/s to be?

If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter whether or not she has BPD.  YOU'RE not happy, and you weren't happy for a long time. Meditate on THAT thought as you consider how to move forward into the next chapter of your life.

[Sunfl0wer]

BTW Dobie, she is HUMAN. (either way) Yes, you can feel compassion for her.  I can tell that you already do.  There is nothing wrong with this.  It just means that YOU are compassionate!

[Pingo]

I agree with Sunflower, you don't need a label to feel compassion. And one day you may feel it and the next you are p*ssed off and have zero compassion... .all normal parts of grieving.

Closure is a big issue for most people on this board. Or lack of closure. The fact is there will likely never be anything you can get from them that will give you closure. True closure comes when you realise that your experience is all that matters. What you are taking away from the r/s. Like Sunflower said, finding meaning and purpose. I used my grief to explore my past losses and grievances I had not dealt with. It was a nightmare and a saving grace all at the same time. It comes with time and acceptance. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and feel the feelings that come up.  You'll get there!

[Sunfl0wer]

jhkbuzz,

I am experiencing how helpful these boards are!

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Thank you these questions.  It helps me to see, that as time went on and his mask was removed, that I was actually more in love with "our potential" as I saw it.

After applying RA, NO WAY!  I was NOT in love with what we were the past 3 years.  I was in love with what we could be, finding the man I spent the first year with, finding the moments in between the craziness and FOG.  I was in search of how to rip the BPD and NPD out of him to get what I adored!  I took him to MC for over a year, then dragged him to another after that for over a year.     Our MC said that he "would lend him his ego" as he confirmed exBf had none.  I had hope of him achieving ego development!  :/  I was clinging to the hope of the direction and path that only I envisioned and was willing to drag him down... .until I lost steam, and strength!  Heck, I have PTSD and have overcome so much, why couldn't he too, he is smart as well?

Just little by little, the pieces are coming together, it is making more sense, having this distance without him.

Thank you!

[jhkbuzz]

jhkbuzz,

I am experiencing how helpful these boards are!

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Thank you these questions.  It helps me to see, that as time went on and his mask was removed, that I was actually more in love with "our potential" as I saw it.

After applying RA, NO WAY!  I was NOT in love with what we were the past 3 years. I was in love with what we could be, finding the man I spent the first year with, finding the moments in between the craziness and FOG.I was in search of how to rip the BPD and NPD out of him to get what I adored!  I took him to MC for over a year, then dragged him to another after that for over a year.    Our MC said that he "would lend him his ego" as he confirmed exBf had none.  I had hope of him achieving ego development!  :/  I was clinging to the hope of the direction and path that only I envisioned and was willing to drag him down... .until I lost steam, and strength!  Heck, I have PTSD and have overcome so much, why couldn't he too, he is smart as well?

Just little by little, the pieces are coming together, it is making more sense, having this distance without him.

Thank you!

You're welcome  BTW, I could have written much of that ^ myself.

[Turkish]

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