My new toolbox is working

[OffRoad]

WOW! I managed to have a conversation with uBPDh about dyslexic son and how the school is not doing their job to help him the day before yesterday. We have NEVER been able to do this, not in the 13 years both kids have been in school.

Slight background: H has dyslexia and dysgraphia. It appears it is genetic, as his father, grandfather, and aunt (to a lesser degree) all have it as well. Both of our kids also have both, S16 to a greater degree than D18. S16 also has what I think are BPD traits, so his ability to help himself was limited until I figured out how to teach him to help himself. He is improving, but still gets emotionally overloaded and freezes, not knowing where to start on an assignment. In the past, H would not talk to me before meetings with the school. I now believe it is because he gets emotionally overloaded because he feels guilty that the dyslexia and dysgraphia comes from his side of the family. I know school was horrible for him. Then what happens is we both go in with our own agendas and often would talk at odds with each other in front of the teachers.

This time, I called a meeting with the school because I needed some information. I asked H to please talk with me before the meeting at school. I said I really needed someone who could be a sounding board. Normally, H would then take over our home conversation with what he wanted.

Do you know what I did? Every time H would go off on HIS tangent, I’d bring it back with: “That’s an excellent point and should be addressed. However, I need to make sure we don’t get derailed tomorrow because I need these answers.” Every time he went off somewhere else, I said something similar. Finally, he was frustrated, but in a normal way and he said, “Then when can we address my issues?” I said, “Well, you can call a meeting, like I did. Do you have a better idea?” And he said,

*****Wait for it******

“Why don’t we just call tomorrow 2 meetings? Your meeting first, then my meeting after you get your questions answered?”

HAPPY DANCE!

That was the first time ever we went into a meeting at the school on the same page, united to help our son.

Even after our home conversation, H started walking into the next room, then stopped and said "We made it through that conversation OK. Really, quite well... ." and wandered off with a confused look on his face.

I love this site.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Aurylian]

Excellent job with the tools.    Using them really does increase our odds at success in our relationship.

[formflier]

  And he said,

*****Wait for it******

“Why don’t we just call tomorrow 2 meetings? Your meeting first, then my meeting after you get your questions answered?”

HAPPY DANCE!

 

Nice work!

How long have you been considering that tactic that you used?  Where did you find it?

I love to celebrate and reinforce success!

[waverider]

Excellent

Now you know it works you can adapt that approach to everyday conversations and before long he wont remember it being any different... Make it the new precedent

[OffRoad]

I got that tactic from reading on here. It reminded me of why things were getting worse.

For 18 years, I knew nothing of BPD, but it turned out that I naturally did the right thing (usually) when H would get get emotionally overwhelmed. I already had my own boundaries in place, and didn't let them get stepped on. In the last two-three years, my own life has been an emotional rollercoaster, what with my mother getting hurt and needing surgery and help (twice-off and on weeks of my being gone from the house), my sister dying, my other sister getting Bell's Palsy and finding out she had aneurisms in her brain, our daughter leaving for college and all that entails, dealing with the school for our son, etc, which means I had nothing left to keep H from falling off the deep end. And worse, he saw me falling apart and had no resources for helping me. The good news is that he wanted to, but since he didn't know how, emotionally, he got angry because he felt useless. And I was no help because I didn't even know what to ask for for help (too exhausted to think). Every time I'd come back to the house, everything that I normally dealt with was still there and now two weeks past when it should have been dealt with.  That's when the blowup with H happened, because I was in no position to see what was coming. But he made a mistake and picked a fight over something that I KNEW I hadn't done. Instant light bulb moment, and what brought me here.

The first thing I realized while reading here is that those who keep their personal boundaries in place do the best. I see the worst behavior from the pwBPD happening when the non is "weak" or in a position where they let their boundaries slip. I had let my boundaries slip. In this case, I needed that information. I called the meeting. This was for ME. Then I remembered that validation is important. H's issues were important to him, just as mine were to me. That's where I remembered to validate "That's a good point and needs to be addressed." but held to my boundary that he didn't get to set the tone for my meeting. If I told him we could address his issues after mine, then he would have felt controlled, and like I thought his issues were not as important as mine, so I had to lead him to his making the decision. I was more thinking we could just address what I needed, then his issues, but he seemed happier calling it 2 meetings. Good by me.

This is actually the way I used to work. There were mild blowups occasionally (I learned he would pick fights to get space, and I stopped them dead by saying "You don't have to fight with me to get some time to yourself, just ask.", and a few that went really badly and sometimes I was left wondering what the heck just happened (because I didn't know about BPD), but even though I didn't understand what was happening a lot of the time, I rolled with it because it just wasn't that important (like when he'd withdraw and play computer games for a week-I have things to do, so no biggie)

It's funny, but reading about what DOESN'T work is what led me back to what DOES work.

[formflier]

It's funny, but reading about what DOESN'T work is what led me back to what DOES work.

And... .some trial and error in your r/s will sweeten up the use of those tools. 

Please keep posting your experiences here not only about what does work... .but what doesn't work (tools) when you try them. 

FF

[OffRoad]

This is a your mileage may vary story.

H had reconstructive surgery on a place on his nose where skin cancer was removed. The HMOs got themselves messed up and are trying to bill us ($1800) for the surgery. This has been going on since November of last year and in true H fashion, he has ignored it hoping it will go away. It hasn't gone away. two months ago, I asked him to please write up what happened, and I would help him organize it to send it off. A month ago, he finished his write, up, I gathered all the other information (form to fill out, address to send the complaint to, copies of HMO cards, etc). Today, he finally agreed to "approve" what I had assembled. I explained that the one thing that was not on there was kind of resolution he wanted.

He started going off on all these things that just didn't matter-basically telling the mediation people exactly HOW they should go about doing their job. I was typing on my computer and I when I read back what he had said, he said "No, that isn't what I said. This isn't working. I should type it myself." I said sure  and I got up. He started towards me, then turned back and started telling me what I should type again. Rinse and repeat last interchange. He starts yelling at me that I'm not listening and he needs to do this, so I said OK and got up again. He comes towards me, yelling about how I'm not doing this right and I said "Stop." He keeps yelling at me and sits down, then says I need to send him the document so he can do it on his computer and telling me how this was all my fault and I said, "I realize you feel guilty because you've put this off for so long. I am not taking the blame for this. I will be happy to send you the document. " and wandered off into the kitchen to work on putting things away.

I left him alone in his computer room, he spends an hour and a half completing what he thought was the three sentences I couldn't get right. He comes out. He wants to be mad, but he knew I was correct. I need to fix something on one of the forms because of what he changed on the document, so I ask him the questions and get the answers. H is no longer mad. At all. We discuss how to get this mailed out, he is going by a store where I need a couple of items so I ask him if he would get those items, I'd really appreciate it and give him a list. H is totally calm. Yes, he'd be happy to get those items. This would not have happened in the past three years-he'd have blown up and stormed out.

You want to know the difference? I started to get upset, but then I stopped. I realized when I said "stop", it was more for me than him. After that, I was completely calm. I wasn't angry, I didn't harbor a grudge because H was being a bozo, I had no guilt though H was trying to blame me and I didn't react to H's "mad" I-am-being-tolerant-of -you face (that one used to set me off like no one's business). I detached H's behavior from H. And I took care of myself, instead of trying to make anything "better" (truly a relative term).

Maybe I can get myself to mentally say "Stop" as soon as I see things spinning out of control.

[Grey Kitty]

 

You hit on a gem there. If you have excellent boundaries... .you don't let somebody who has poor boundaries make a problem when you interact with them.

It takes two people with poor boundaries to make a real mess of things!

I had an instance where I got in a relationship with a woman for a while... .ultimately didn't work out... .but by the time it was done, I realized two things.

1. She had a history of being VERY abusive in close relationships. (Didn't quite seem like BPD traits, but perhaps something similar.)

2. I had such good boundaries and such good skills at not letting myself be abused, and controlled that she either never tried to behave abusively toward me, or I successfully deflected the initial minor attempts to be controlling so well that she never escalated it even to full on abusive behavior.

[OffRoad]

It takes two people with poor boundaries to make a real mess of things!

I am really seeing this now.

I had an instance where I got in a relationship with a woman for a while... .ultimately didn't work out... .but by the time it was done, I realized two things.

1. She had a history of being VERY abusive in close relationships. (Didn't quite seem like BPD traits, but perhaps something similar.)

2. I had such good boundaries and such good skills at not letting myself be abused, and controlled that she either never tried to behave abusively toward me, or I successfully deflected the initial minor attempts to be controlling so well that she never escalated it even to full on abusive behavior.

Yes! This is the answer I think. This past three years have been heck on wheels for me, and I am now sure I just let all my boundaries slip. Without those in place, it almost seems like H feels out of control and he keeps pushing to try and find those boundaries again.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Congratulations!  I know it feels good to have that success.  Especially since it will benefit your son.  Glad you posted.  It encourages me to beef up my boundaries. 

I have instinctively done things that worked and that is what has kept my marriage in tact for so long. 

Keep up the good work!

[OffRoad]

It's still working.

Last week the starter went out on H’s car. We’ve known this was coming. This morning H gets up at 11:30 and has to gather up all the tools he’s going to need to repair the car.

He asks about the metric sockets, and I tell him they are not in the same location at the standard sockets, and that all of the metric ones are not currently together. He cuts me off before I can explain.

He asks what size sockets we have and I tell him I have to check.

He wants to know if we have extensions, a universal connector and/or a flexible one. The answer is yes/yes/no for 3/8 only. I try to explain that we have three different size ratchets and sockets. He cuts me off, says he thought we had one. I ask “One what?”. He starts to get angry “You know what I mean!” I take a deep breath and say. “Please try again, I’m not understanding what you are saying.” (He wanted to know about the flexible extension)

He wants to know what size metric sockets we have. I tell him (again) I have to go and look. He asks me where they are so he can look. I tell him (again) they are not all in the same location. He starts to dysregulate about why all the sockets aren’t together. I ask him if he wants to continue talking or if he’d like to know the answer to his question. He stops and gives me his you-are-so-stupid look. Oddly enough, it didn’t faze me today. I told him that when S and I took the trip last week, I took the sockets that fit my car in case we needed them and I hadn’t put them back yet. Crisis averted.

I gather the metric sockets and show them to H. He is upset because that is all we have (It’s all I’ve ever needed for 30+ years…). The only thing I don’t have is rack for the metrics. He decides needs to go out and buy new ones. There is no point in telling him that the new ones he is going to get are going to be the same as the ones I have. He hasn’t checked to see if anyone has a starter in stock. He doesn’t know when the parts stores closes. He doesn’t realize that when he takes the manifold off he’s going to have to replace the gasket. I just have to step back and let it unfold.

Mind you , he is driving a car that I was going to fix the power steering pump on this week, but now can’t because his car is down. I ask him to please check the fluid, because it loses some. Right now it’s an easy fix. If H runs it out of fluid, it’s going to be a major expenditure. Some days I really hate getting out of bed.

But we didn’t have an argument. 

[Grey Kitty]

Yay for good tools. (or good enough tools)

I often joke that a pwBPD's emotional toolbox consists of a sledgehammer and a splitting maul, both with a broken handles, and three abused flathead screwdrivers that shouldn't be allowed to touch a screw, being only suitable for opening oysters.

And now there are spare metric sockets You can leave one set in your car if you want.

I wish you luck on the steering pump holding out while the rest of this unfolds.

[formflier]

 

This sounds like my fleet of cars.

My wife has been pissy about the time I've been spending lately organizing tools... .putting things back where they belong... .etc etc.

Today it paid off.

Grabbed a toolbox... .went to mower that wouldn't start... .all tools we needed and I expected where there.

The air filter I  pulled out of mower... .was scary

New filter... .running fine now  

OBTW... .most starters I have worked on... .are a pain to swap.

Are you sure it is starter?

[waverider]

Missing tools... .guaranteed to turn the air blue... .second only to computers that freeze up when you click submit... .

If you can divert that you can move mountains

I reckon BPD mechanics and chefs are up there in the worst possible to be around catagories

[OffRoad]

Pretty sure. It has all the hallmarks of a starter (slow starting, then sometimes not starting, then not starting and if you beat it and jog the brushes to another spot starting, then not starting at all). Battery was just replaced, terminals have a good connection. I asked him to swap out a couple of the relays, in case that was an issue. Whether he did or not, I have no idea. But it's a common problem in his type of car, too, although a royal pain to replace. (I miss my old '75 Dodge one ton where you could crawl in the engine compartment with the engine and easily access the starter. 15 minute job... .)

Of course, H is sure that the reason the starter isn't working is that the flywheel is ruined (not sure where he got this idea), but there has been no grinding noise, and it just doesn't start. Doesn't sound like a flywheel to me.

But in any case, not my circus. I'm going to make sure I'm nowhere in the vicinity unless he needs me to hold something. I will keep quiet, I will keep quiet, I will keep quiet... .and silently re-sort the roll away toolbox when he is done. (Nothing like finding your hacksaw in with the wrenches)

[formflier]

Of course, H is sure that the reason the starter isn't working is that the flywheel is ruined (not sure where he got this idea), but there has been no grinding noise, and it just doesn't start. Doesn't sound like a flywheel to me.

Usually will ruin the starter side... .rather than flywheel side.  In fact... .I've never heard of a flywheel going bad so it wouldn't start.

I can see how it could happen... .I just think that is really rare.

Had a 92 chevy 350 engine... .that I had flywheel in and out several times to get resurfaced.  Had to put in lots of clutches over the years... .

I have fonder memories of that now... .than I'm sure I had at the time... .

[OffRoad]

Back again. It's still working.

I am recovering the couch. I have spent three days on it so far, and the center section is done (it's going to go faster now that I have the pattern, since the other two sections are the same as the middle). So I'm fixing the padding in the top (it has a zipper and you add the pillows inside the piece attached to the couch-it's harder than it sounds) and H says "You know, that couch is kind of broken down."

Normally, this would have triggered me. I've just spent three days working on a couch that H thinks is broken down? What the heck, why didn't he say something BEFORE I started? You know?

But instead, I used a whole bunch of words. It went like this:

Me: Broken down?

H: It's broken in the area where S flops down on it. (S doesn't flop on the couch, he flops in the chair and THAT is really broken down, but H doesn't want that to go away)

Me: Could you specify what you mean by "broken down"?

H: It creaks and wobbles (News to me, BTW).

Me: Could you show me where, exactly?

H goes pushing on all parts of the couch and can't get anything to move or creak. Finally gets to the one arm that has a little give.

H: Here! Right here see how broken this is? (Not really, but I roll with it)

Me: Oh, I see. Well, when I get to that part, I'll be down to the wood. I can put a few more screws in it to tighten it up.

H: Good.

No Thank you or anything, but no fight either. I'm taking that as a win.

[formflier]

 

When I would like validation or thanks for a task... .I will kid around.

So... .she wanted a heater put in the bathroom... .one of those light/exhaust fan/heater combo things.

Anyway... .I used a corny line about the heater making her "hot" for me (everyone go ahead and eye roll... .)... .

For me... .stuff like that works... .

So... .if you want your hubby to say thanks or something... .maybe you could suggest something like he gives you a backrub on the newly recovered couch... .or... .something racier... . 

FF

[OffRoad]

Funny thing about Thank Yous. I finished the taxes last month and told H they were done and he just starts to wander off. I said "You're welcome." in the same tone as if he'd actually said "Thank you." He looked at me and said, "What?". I said "You're welcome. For my doing the taxes and saving us the money of having someone else do it." H: "Oh. Yes. Thank you. I do appreciate it."

[formflier]

 

Taxes was a big drama for us too

[waverider]

When I would like validation or thanks for a task... .I will kid around.

So... .she wanted a heater put in the bathroom... .one of those light/exhaust fan/heater combo things.

Anyway... .I used a corny line about the heater making her "hot" for me (everyone go ahead and eye roll... .)... .

For me... .stuff like that works... .

So... .if you want your hubby to say thanks or something... .maybe you could suggest something like he gives you a backrub on the newly recovered couch... .or... .something racier... . 

FF

I do too. It also puts you in a better mode as well. Stacking the mood I call it.