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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: I'm trying to figure out what will look best in court.  (Read 403 times)
Nope
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« on: April 12, 2015, 08:34:06 PM »

The order does not grant the kid's BPD mom any specific parenting time in her state during the summer. It grants her certain specific parenting time other times in a year both in her state and our state. Then it says "all other parenting time will be by agreement between the parties". DH has decided that since the BPD mom has not begun court ordered counseling and has done more things to potentially put the kids in harms way (left the kids with a boyfriend of less than two months while she worked the last time she had them in her state) DH has decided he is unwilling to agree that her parenting is acceptable enough that he will send them out to her state at all this summer.

She has not asked DH directly for any summer parenting time but she did tell the GAL that she wants the same number of weeks DH used to get when the kids lived with her in her state. The GAL simply told her that DH is not agreeable to her having that time. When she sent the kids back from their spring break she sent them with practically everything they own, telling them there was no point in her keeping any of it since they might not go back at all this summer. I'm betting that was meant as some sort of manipulation.

If asked directly for some summer time, DH intends to tell her she can have a couple of weeks in her state at the end of the summer, provided she follows the order and begins counseling. He will also remind her that she can have parenting time in our state one weekend per month, and since school is out any weekend can be a long weekend. Though she has yet to come see the kids here at all.

But my question is, if she says nothing about summer parenting time to DH, do we bring it up? Unless she chooses to exercise her parenting time in our state the kids won't see her for six months. I'm sure there will be the emotional accusations that we are keeping the children from her, but DH has good grounds to hold the boundary that we won't gift her time while she is refusing to follow the order and at least try to be a less damaging parent. So if she never asks, do we say something, knowing full well that whatever we say will be triggering and twisted in her phone calls with the kids? Or do we stay quiet. And if ever asked in court, simply point to her behaviors and her refusal to cooperate?
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2015, 09:12:51 PM »

She has the order.  Last I heard she was trying to act as her own attorney, pro se, right?  I would think DH doesn't have to point out to her the options for her that are clearly listed in the order.

Then again, I've had this magistrate and twice... .no matter what is done the mother will not get full consequences.  (She already got a lot of consequences by losing majority time - my lawyer would have said to be happy with that much - but did get a lot of financial breaks.)  Would DH get lectured for not mentioning the options in the order?  Maybe.  But then he could say, "I'm sorry, but I didn't see anything in the order requiring me to do that."

Be aware that her complying with the order to get counseling does not mean she will improve her behavior.
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bravhart1
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 02:16:12 AM »

If she doesn't ask for time then I see no reason to offer it. If the children ask, I would be honest and tell them that mom has not asked for any visitation specifically and is going through some hard times, and will ask to see them when she has been able to work it out.

I would encourage them to send her letters with happy updates in what they are doing and hope mom is satisfied with that. I almost get the feeling that mom would rather not have them? Do you think that too?

I would tell the court the same thing. My sisters husband never exercised his visitation rights for almost six years. When he remarried his new wife took the bull by the horns and hauled my sister into court for contempt. When the judge asked my sister why their daughter hadn't seen her father in six years she stated simply, he never asked. You could have sliced the silence with a knife. Everyone in the court room looked at her ex and when the judge asked him if that was true he sheepishly said yes. It was not my sisters responsibility to try to make him see his daughter. Case dismissed.
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Nope
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2015, 06:04:50 AM »

She has the order.  Last I heard she was trying to act as her own attorney, pro se, right?  I would think DH doesn't have to point out to her the options for her that are clearly listed in the order.

Then again, I've had this magistrate and twice... .no matter what is done the mother will not get full consequences.  (She already got a lot of consequences by losing majority time - my lawyer would have said to be happy with that much - but did get a lot of financial breaks.)  Would DH get lectured for not mentioning the options in the order?  Maybe.  But then he could say, "I'm sorry, but I didn't see anything in the order requiring me to do that."

Be aware that her complying with the order to get counseling does not mean she will improve her behavior.

It seems to me that the magistrate recognizes that she is mentally ill. Since we focused on behaviors and mental health was never brought up the magistrate worked with what she had. One of the benefits she reaped from being seen as mentally ill was that she wasn't held accountable for her actions. The kids were moved to safety and she was told she was required to go to counseling. While we weren't seeking to punish her, someone had to take on all the responsibilities that she wasn't equipped to handle. So the magistrate just dumped it all on DH. So I feel like it is implied that the burden of telling her she has options does fall on him. Well, maybe not even just implied since the order says that each parent is responsible for promoting a positive relationship between the children and the other parent. Broadly interpreted, perhaps not saying anything to her about her options puts DH in contempt. Assuming the magistrate was so inclined

I agree that forced counseling is unlikely to yield any results. But at the same time it would be some form of compliance at least. Since she gets two weeks every other year for Christmas break, the magistrate has already said that two weeks is acceptable in the magistrate's mind.

If she doesn't ask for time then I see no reason to offer it. If the children ask, I would be honest and tell them that mom has not asked for any visitation specifically and is going through some hard times, and will ask to see them when she has been able to work it out.

I would encourage them to send her letters with happy updates in what they are doing and hope mom is satisfied with that. I almost get the feeling that mom would rather not have them? Do you think that too?

I would tell the court the same thing. My sisters husband never exercised his visitation rights for almost six years. When he remarried his new wife took the bull by the horns and hauled my sister into court for contempt. When the judge asked my sister why their daughter hadn't seen her father in six years she stated simply, he never asked. You could have sliced the silence with a knife. Everyone in the court room looked at her ex and when the judge asked him if that was true he sheepishly said yes. It was not my sisters responsibility to try to make him see his daughter. Case dismissed.

I don't feel good about telling the kids their mom didn't ask because that's too much truth. You are exactly right that she doesn't actually want the time. Her new boyfriend is divorced and has an every other weekend relationship with his own child. BPD mom has 50/50 time with her youngest from another relationship. I'm sure she realizes that having the kids full time for a big chunk of the summer would get in the way of her new relationship. It's far better to cry and play the victim than to put in any effort. The kids don't need to know how little they actually matter. That is probably going to be obvious enough when she and the BF take a trip with the other two kids this summer but she doesn't come here to see these two.

Your sister's experience is exactly what I suspect will happen eventually. She will eventually start feeling guilty and need the court's assurance that not seeing her kids is all DH's fault. But that probably won't happen unless or until this new relationship ends. Right now the BF's assurance that it isn't her fault is all she needs.
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PinkieV
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2015, 03:27:52 PM »

We've got a situation with summer too.  In order to get uBPDm to sign off on DH's custody, we offered to pay for SS14's trips for the first year.  The last trip is Memorial Day weekend.  uBPDm is supposed to ask for her summer visitation dates by 5/1, but we think she'll just wait for my DH to plan the next trip.  He's not, it's up to her, and she gets to pay half.  So we just get to wait and see.  Of course, she'll cry foul and complain that she has no money, but she's had a year to figure this out.  And CS will go up too, ha ha ha!
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