Am I insane to marry my BPD partner?

[Caro-Lin]

Hi, I'm new here, and on the point of marrying a BPD partner that I've been involved with for an extended period. I am under no illusions about his faults, but I also see the very beautiful side of this very sensitive man. It's impossible to obtain information from anyone who doesn't understand the various dynamics of the situation, hence my turning here.

In addition to BPD, I suspect my partner has strong schizoid tendencies - although he's never been diagnosed for any of them because he shuns psychology totally. However, he admits to 'being different' and, because of his unusual behaviour, I have researched the various personality disorders fairly widely.

In as much as he is able to, I know this man loves me, and I know that I love him. My fear is his underlying anger and suspicion, also the fact that he has been promiscuous in the past, and refuses to swear fidelity. In a sense, I appreciate his honesty, and I'm not convinced many men are able to do this whether they swear to it or not! My concern in all of this is my own abandonment issues which, though I am very aware of and can deal with most of the time, I'm concerned about inevitable times of stress. I understand that nobody can tell me what I should do, but any advice would be welcome.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Thread]

Hi there!

Glad you joined! I am newer here too! I have found this very very helpful! So my husband is the pwBPD (person with Borderline) I also knew he was different people referred to his as sensitive, therapist said "deep rooted issues," lacking social maturity, and so on.

He could not handle confrontation. The first sign I had was when in conflict he dumped a glass of water on his own head.   what? The weirdest part is he then told me he did it to himself because he knew I wanted to do it. Funny story I had told him how once while my parents were fighting my mom had dumped soda on my dads head.

The outbursts happened every so often. Change highly affected the BPD behavior, moving apartments, change of jobs,

Change of job titles, unexpected things like car problems, even nice things out of routine like when we first dated me making him breakfast in the morning threw his routine off. He didn't want it and seemed super offended by it. There are triggers to each I'm sure based off their own life experiences. Money is a big one for mine. Friends I care about. Even female friends.

There are a lot. It is hard to know exact what you're getting into until you're into it. When I first found out he was BPD I accepted him back after a separation being able to attribute it to the disorder. I had no idea how much BPD now dictates my life so much that I lose myself due to sacrifices I make to coddle the disorder (something you're not suppose to do, but as outsiders don't know is a very hard thing to not fall into). For me sometimes just appeasing him is easier than facing the emotional rage or days of silent treatments or suicidal threats, even the sobbing fears are difficult to go home to.

One minute you can be the cure all love of their life, the next the enemy always responsible for their lack.

For me, being prone to anxiety and depression, it's not the best combo. Also learning I may be or have codependent tendencies (I've just learmed the technical aspects of this term). I've also read due to this site if you are not strong and know who you are and don't have tuff skin it's not the best idea, BPD behaviors will try to tear you down, not knowingly but often everything becomes your fault or everything you think can become contrary.

My husband is a wonderful man. Giving, hard working, talented, intelligent, stable as far as he has never cheated is not addicted to substances or alcohol, does smoke cigarettes often, but all in all a hard man to find, rare.  

However there is the BPD and the BPD in laws, when suicide threats happen in laws are zero help also blaming me as my BPD does for the behavior, the rages that can be emotionally abusive, name calling biotch or crazy insane, infidel, the tantrums throwing things, breaking things, luckily no violence to me physically. Never feeling full constant complaints about not being happy or always feeling empty and somehow it's that you are not doing enough. Making up what you mean to say, just because your voice implied that you meant what he felt. Then being really angry about the thoughts made up in his head that he felt you really meant to say. It's very hard to argue that those things aren't factual, it will be circular fights with no winners and confusion. You will often be cornered and can never win. There will be moments of highs where you are so in love again and then disaster will strike. One of mine was because he felt I was calling him retarded because I was trying to teach him to wash a dish. It ended in him saying he was going to kill himself.   I was asking him not to splash me while he was scrubbing the dishes.

I rarely have just normal days of a respectful loving relationship. If I don't look happy enough to see him it translates to him that I am unhappy and am going to leave him. He will mope for the rest of the evening me having ruined the whole day.

You need to understand can you handle for example Monday high, Monday evening low because you went to coffee with your cousin,  tuesdsy love, Wednesday hate because you didn't show him how to do something the right way (even though you did more than once)and  are sabotaging him from doing it right, thursdsy outburst because he hacked into your Facebook and saw you writing to your guy friends, Thursday afternoon silent treatment because of the Facebook thing, Thursday evening needy because he's afraid you're going to leave him, Friday ashamed from accusing you and throwing a pity party for himself saying he's sorry he's dumb and is always wrong, but if you weren't being weird he wouldn't have hacked into your Facebook account, Friday evening sad because you pointed out it was wrong for him to hack into your account, Saturday anxious because now he's afraid you'll leave him again, Sunday mean because you're a stupid crazy biotch! When you leave and stay at your parents because you can't enable the behavior, he locked himself out of the house and decided to sleep in the park because he told you to F off and that he didn't ask for your help.  

Does this sound fun? I've had 5 days in a row with episodes like this. 4 suicide threats in two years. And the situations above have happened to me. My pwBPD is on a scale of 1-10 ten being high is a 2-3... . The higher levels I've heard are way worse. My friend is with a girl who didn't tell him she wa off birth control and sensed he was wanting to end the relationship and guess who is stuck being daddy to a kid he does not want to leave with the BPD mother. This is extreme, she has also used the baby to control him. Locked him out of the house to where he had to call the police worried about the child... . All because he went for a hike, her response when do you hike? You're cheating on me.

I'm not saying commit or leave. My husband is amazing I love him so much but I abhor the disorder and it's confusing and unhealthy, so unhealthy to live with. You have to be very very strong and not need approval or verbal validation. You will get it, but other times you will be knocked down more often than not.

[waverider]

When do you plan on marrying?

It would be advisable to make sure you have a good working knowledge on managing a relationship where BPD is present, as things will change, before you make commitments like this.

Take your time to look around this site, in particular work your way through the lessons on the right>>. Join in with discussions and you at least will have clearer picture of what you are dealing with

Waverider

[Caro-Lin]

Hithere! Thanks for the reply - it made me smile! So many of the reactions you describe are familiar to me. It's what alerted me to some kind of problem in the first place. I also suffer from anxiety, and as this Board correctly points out, many people involved with BPD have issues of their own. But I've learned over 7 years, not to take things personally although, as I mentioned, when stress levels are high, anyone would ignite. Everyone, including his own family, thinks I'm crazy to be involved with him in the first place, and while I'm definitely not blind to his faults, I see so much more than others do - probably because they cannot see beyond the brash personality he generally displays to others.

I'm so thrilled to have discovered this site - I can't tell you how much I've learned in just a few hours. Thanks to all of you - it truly is like a family.

[Caro-Lin]

Thanks, Waverider - what I've not learned in the 7 years we've been involved, I'm rapidly learning on this site! I don't think any relationship is ever perfect, and while one with a BPD may be especially 'imperfect', this one has a lot going for it. Still, as you can see, I am cautious.

[Thread]

I applaud your strong positive outlook! That's what it takes! My BPD is one in a million. My therapist suggested a positivity journal for both of us to focus on the good things... . I haven't started it yet but do feel for me in general focusing on the high points will help me tread through the turbulent points.

Why I Love You - a journal of us (Suzanne Zenkel) on Amazon

[Caro-Lin]

Thanks. As I'm sure you know, when things are going well we can smile 

[lillian2005]

Caro-lin, you are in the exact position as i am, and i feel like someone else is going through what i'm going through too!

My BPD partner is whom i'm planning to marry, and we are getting engaged soon, he also refuses to seek psychology, he has a very short temper and can be easily irritated, his suspicion is so bad, that there's always something i'm lying about. And his had a very promiscuous past!

I am too afraid of the stress i'm going to deal with in the future, its emotionally exhausting.

His trying his best to change because his admitted he can be overboard.

I hope they get better and its easy to deal with.

[Thread]

In my experience marriage does not improve things. The more important you are to them the more fear of abandonment that comes. The idea of control got bigger, and difficulty in keeping my independence. I have often coddled the insecurities, but am learning I need to stop doing that or I will lose myself in the disorder and drive myself mad.

The only improvements I've seen in my loved one with BPD is high protein intake, working out at least 4 times a week, sleep routines and adequate sleep, and therapy once a week. There are far less complaints and tantrums when he is practicing all of the above. Maybe only one to two a month and that is heaven to me!

And it has always been a struggle to get him to do therapy, but it is my one condition to our relationship, weekly commitment for the next 6 months.

[waverider]

I hope they get better and its easy to deal with.

Change that to "you hope you get better at dealing with it more easily"... .we can help you with that one. The other is just wishful thinking.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

In as much as he is able to, I know this man loves me, and I know that I love him. My fear is his underlying anger and suspicion, also the fact that he has been promiscuous in the past, and refuses to swear fidelity.

Quick answer... .if you think things will be different/better after you're married, then yes... .that's close to the definition of insanity.  Close, because that would assume you'll do the same things and expect a different result.  If you think your changing your behavior will get a different behavior from him, then why for Gods sake don't you make that change before agreeing to marry him.

In a sense, I appreciate his honesty, and I'm not convinced many men are able to do this whether they swear to it or not!

This is sad on so many levels... .Of course there are no guarantees (and in my case it was my first wife (non-BPD) who strayed), but there are certainly 'many' men who are capable of being faithful.  Maybe not the men you meet trolling bars, but find a good church, be in no rush, and you'll see there are plenty of good men out there.

[shatterd]

my exBPD always thought that ring would change her, i felt so bad for her, the child hood dream she had tryd to base her life around (the fairytale) we were supose to get married in august thank god it ended b4 that, sad yes very and it hurts to say this, i knew better, was i ass for giveing her the ring? hell i had to face painful reality too   how could somebody think that would change things on fait alone?

[Caro-Lin]

Thanks to all for the responses. I'm under no illusions about him -  and I'm not expecting him to change. The person I'm concerned about, is myself. I cope very well with him at the moment because I do not take things personally - but I'm also not with him every day, so I have lots of breathing space. My concern is will I cope with him as well when I'm with him every day? The other thing I often wonder is, is his refusal to swear fidelity a form of BPD manipulation? Whether it is or not is unimportant really because, though I don't like the idea, I have accepted it. I'm just curious.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Thanks to all for the responses. I'm under no illusions about him -  and I'm not expecting him to change. The person I'm concerned about, is myself. I cope very well with him at the moment because I do not take things personally - but I'm also not with him every day, so I have lots of breathing space. My concern is will I cope with him as well when I'm with him every day?

Well in my case it's a fight for any and all breathing space after we got married... .Leaving 5-10 minutes early for work if I get ready quicker than normal raises her hackles and can mean the day can be lost.

[waverider]

My concern is will I cope with him as well when I'm with him every day?

Make sure you start off with personal space on a regular basis a high priority. Will you cope no one can say. The only sure thing is things will be different

The other thing I often wonder is, is his refusal to swear fidelity a form of BPD manipulation? Whether it is or not is unimportant really because, though I don't like the idea, I have accepted it. I'm just curious.

It is a form of not relinquishing control. He is going to do whatever he is going to do, regardless of what he says. To a degree he is playing the moral card by making a show of being "honest", grand standing if you like. Reality is there is no need to say anything of the sort unless you are trying to make an impression. I am sure you wouldn't even consider making a similar statement from your side of the fence.

[Loosestrife]

Hi, I'm new here, and on the point of marrying a BPD partner that I've been involved with for an extended period. I am under no illusions about his faults, but I also see the very beautiful side of this very sensitive man. It's impossible to obtain information from anyone who doesn't understand the various dynamics of the situation, hence my turning here.

In addition to BPD, I suspect my partner has strong schizoid tendencies - although he's never been diagnosed for any of them because he shuns psychology totally. However, he admits to 'being different' and, because of his unusual behaviour, I have researched the various personality disorders fairly widely.

In as much as he is able to, I know this man loves me, and I know that I love him. My fear is his underlying anger and suspicion, also the fact that he has been promiscuous in the past, and refuses to swear fidelity. In a sense, I appreciate his honesty, and I'm not convinced many men are able to do this whether they swear to it or not! My concern in all of this is my own abandonment issues which, though I am very aware of and can deal with most of the time, I'm concerned about inevitable times of stress. I understand that nobody can tell me what I should do, but any advice would be welcome.

From what I've read on the boards, things seem to get worse with marriage/living together. I don't think you are insane, but if you are getting married expecting infidelity -is that really a basis for marriage?

[Thread]

My heart goes out to you. But he is cheating now and you're putting up with it he will continue to cheat hoping for the same results in marriage or out of marriage. And yes, it drastically changes living with the BPD and being married to a pwBPD. I just want you to know there is a reality from people doing that, people consider me to be strong, strong willed, strong in who I am as a individual... .5 years and it is sucking the life out of me... .The five years we've been together I have consistently been in therapy.

My only advice, get into therapy with someone who understands BPD, you are going to need to build yourself a good support system in marriage or even now.

Isitherorisitme stated that just getting ready to quickly or leaving to work early sets his PwBPD off... .This is true and it's hard and yes the whole day can become lost due to that one action.

It's hard to see the reality when you're not actually in it yet.

[OffRoad]

Caro-lin, make sure you really understand what you are getting into. It's not even the BPD I'm talking about , but the promiscuous behavior. It puts you in danger of catching an STD. Are you willing to put your life on the line if he brings home HIV?

In addition, each pwBPD is different, but most get worse when they get married, until the partner can realize what is necessary and put protective boundaries in place. It starts out fine, but degenerates because the pwBPD cannot keep their mask on indefinitely. You will receive the worst of when he dysregulates. You will need to have somewhere you can go when things become unacceptable on a day to day basis. Sitting in the same room with a person who is railing at you isn't good for you, so you will need to be able to have some place to get away. (Might be another room of the house, might be a walk, might be a friends, might be a coffee shop, might be fishing )

[Compassion14]

Hi, I feel your commitment to your partner through your posts, clearly... .but I am being honest; I fear for you.

"My fear is his underlying anger and suspicion." Having lived that... .that's enough said for me. 

I'm sorry - my gut answer to your direct question would be, yes, I think it would be unwise to marry into this madness. You deserve love... .real, calm, supportive, not 'walking on egg shells' love. I did it for 2 years and it is 2 years I will never get back... .I'm grateful for the lessons I learned in that time about what I did NOT want in my life, but other than that, ever day away from him and the chaos of his BPD now is an utter blessing. I thank my lucky stars daily that I did not marry him, as he proposed.

You have to do what feels right for you... .but please take the time to really FEEL what your gut is saying.

All the best,

C14 x

[waverider]

As you can see there are a lot of reservations, but to put a more positive spin on it, I am about to do the same thing.

Differences are I am doing so after having lived with my partner for some time and been through the worst of the storms, and they were bad. I have now learned a lot about how to deal with a BPD relationship. There are few surprises to come.

The worst of it did come shortly after cohabiting started and the "facade" started to crumble.

So I would say it is possible, but that decision needs to be taken after a lot of experience has been gained at getting a handle on it.

[OffRoad]

As you can see there are a lot of reservations, but to put a more positive spin on it, I am about to do the same thing.

Differences are I am doing so after having lived with my partner for some time and been through the worst of the storms, and they were bad. I have now learned a lot about how to deal with a BPD relationship. There are few surprises to come.

The worst of it did come shortly after cohabiting started and the "facade" started to crumble.

So I would say it is possible, but that decision needs to be taken after a lot of experience has been gained at getting a handle on it.

Be aware, I lived with my H for 15 years, then we got married. It still got really bad right after we got married (I didn't know about BPD, and probably didn't handle it as well as I could have now). I believe some pwBPD, even though they think they want to be married, feel "trapped" when they actually do get married and it takes a little bit for them to re-balance.

[zundertowz]

yup

[sbr1050]

You need to understand can you handle for example Monday high, Monday evening low because you went to coffee with your cousin,  tuesdsy love, Wednesday hate because you didn't show him how to do something the right way (even though you did more than once)and  are sabotaging him from doing it right, thursdsy outburst because he hacked into your Facebook and saw you writing to your guy friends, Thursday afternoon silent treatment because of the Facebook thing, Thursday evening needy because he's afraid you're going to leave him, Friday ashamed from accusing you and throwing a pity party for himself saying he's sorry he's dumb and is always wrong, but if you weren't being weird he wouldn't have hacked into your Facebook account, Friday evening sad because you pointed out it was wrong for him to hack into your account, Saturday anxious because now he's afraid you'll leave him again, Sunday mean because you're a stupid crazy biotch! When you leave and stay at your parents because you can't enable the behavior, he locked himself out of the house and decided to sleep in the park because he told you to F off and that he didn't ask for your help.  

Does this sound fun? I've had 5 days in a row with episodes like this.

Thank you for your post!  I am having a rough time since my uBPDexbf stormed out of my life in December. I lived with this exact behavior for 18 years.  I loved (and still love) this man with all my heart.  But it was killing me inside. Even when I tried to let it bounce off of me, it was eating away at me. But I still find myself deeply missing him.   I seem to be hanging on all the positives that we had and minimizing all the emotional things you wrote about in your post.  Thank you, your post temporarily snapped me back to a more logical place for the time being!

[Thread]

Sbr1050,

 it's good to be empathized with!

[Loosestrife]

You need to understand can you handle for example Monday high, Monday evening low because you went to coffee with your cousin,  tuesdsy love, Wednesday hate because you didn't show him how to do something the right way (even though you did more than once)and  are sabotaging him from doing it right, thursdsy outburst because he hacked into your Facebook and saw you writing to your guy friends, Thursday afternoon silent treatment because of the Facebook thing, Thursday evening needy because he's afraid you're going to leave him, Friday ashamed from accusing you and throwing a pity party for himself saying he's sorry he's dumb and is always wrong, but if you weren't being weird he wouldn't have hacked into your Facebook account, Friday evening sad because you pointed out it was wrong for him to hack into your account, Saturday anxious because now he's afraid you'll leave him again, Sunday mean because you're a stupid crazy biotch! When you leave and stay at your parents because you can't enable the behavior, he locked himself out of the house and decided to sleep in the park because he told you to F off and that he didn't ask for your help.  

Does this sound fun? I've had 5 days in a row with episodes like this.

Thank you for your post!  I am having a rough time since my uBPDexbf stormed out of my life in December. I lived with this exact behavior for 18 years.  I loved (and still love) this man with all my heart.  But it was killing me inside. Even when I tried to let it bounce off of me, it was eating away at me. But I still find myself deeply missing him.   I seem to be hanging on all the positives that we had and minimizing all the emotional things you wrote about in your post.  Thank you, your post temporarily snapped me back to a more logical place for the time being!

Brings back bad memories for me too... .and the reminder that it will more than likely come round again!

[waverider]

A question therapist will ask is "what's in this for you?"

It is a difficult and important question. Take away the warm and fuzzies such as they are fun most of the time/I love him/ I want to take care of him/rescue/feel responsible for.

When times are dark these warm and fuzzies will be absent and you will have to fall back on tangible, even mercenary payoffs. Much like any workplace, regardless of how much you normally find it rewarding will have its bad periods were its only the knowledge of being paid to turn up can induce you to turn up.

So what hard cold self benefiting fall backs are there for when you are not feeling particularly affectionate or valued?

[an0ught]

Hi Caro-Lin,

The other thing I often wonder is, is his refusal to swear fidelity a form of BPD manipulation? Whether it is or not is unimportant really because, though I don't like the idea, I have accepted it. I'm just curious.

you've known your SO for a long time and would not consider marrying if you don't believe he is faithful. Your request is a sign of some anxiety on your side and your partner is refusing to be controlled by it. All this is quite normal and I'm pointing this out as we have to be super aware of what emotions we are feeling and how they affect our behavior. When we try to fix our emotions through controlling the behavior on the other side that is often leading to conflicts. PwBPD are very prone to use such strategies but that does not mean we never resort to them either. When living together being aware of how emotions are transfered between us helps us to navigate our lives better.

Thanks to all for the responses. I'm under no illusions about him -  and I'm not expecting him to change. The person I'm concerned about, is myself. I cope very well with him at the moment because I do not take things personally - but I'm also not with him every day, so I have lots of breathing space. My concern is will I cope with him as well when I'm with him every day?

Your concern is valid. Think hard about what your boundaries are and how you go to protect them. The clearer you are and the more pro-active you are protecting them the less problems you will have. Marriage and moving in together tends to erode natural boundaries so this is an area that bears watching. Time alone from the home is extremely valuable. Also within the home there are options - closed doors can be your friend - don't be afraid of insisting in some areas on privacy. Respect him and insist on him respecting you.

Last but not least: Weddings are naturally exciting and so can become quite turbulent with pwBPD. You may want to lean on the board during such a time.

[pressonetohold]

Hi Caro-Lin,

Hm your situation seems to be alike my own, although the genders are opposite, and my partner is acknowledging her situation, and has sought help. Recently I have posted a similar question on here, asking for some insight how to move my relationship forward in the direction of long term commitment, and marriage. This might be the blind trying to lead the blind, but maybe sharing some experiences might help.

Obviously I don't think you are mad to want to want commitment or marriage, I would say it is a very natural thing to want and need.

For me, what is giving me some doubt and trouble, is the fact that our relationship simply seems to be not ready for that, nor moving too much in the desired direction at times. Any progress is soon undone by a tantrum, seeking exile on her part, sometimes aggression. At other times she can be clingy, promising me the world.

We have learned how to deal with it, are both (thank god) aware of what is going on, and generally keep a stable relationship, be it that there are ups and downs.

What I have considered for myself, is whether I would be capable of steering for steady grounds when she -temporarily- loses the ability to do so, -time and time again-, I have given up my wish for having children as long as we are not stable, which might mean, never having any and have accepted that a lot of the time, there is little shared perception of what is going on between us.

This might sound dramatic, but it gives me peace too. It means I am willing to go on with this relationship, to commit, while being aware of what I am venturing into. To me that seems important, making sure you have sufficient coping skills to facilitate a relationship where you are sometimes missing out on stability by your partners doing.

I myself, am not afraid of commitment anymore, nor do I have abandonment issues. But I am looking for (more) skills to have us move forward, to keep stable, and to grow into being together in a (even) more constructive way. Trying to curb my enthusiasm, waiting with asking for (more) commitment. Educating myself until I truly feel ready.