Do I "participate" in sending my daughter to college... if told to

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So... .there are a lot of things going on in my life and family... .wife has upped the "I'm in charge" thing


My daughter has fallen in love with a college because of a specific program they have there.

She can stay home and get another free year of school... .and have an associates degree in science.  Yep... .public education here takes you to an associates degree... .for free. 

Daughter is now 18 and would be a traditional senior if she was in regular high school.

Wife pushed daughter to apply... ."just in case".  I was assured that if she didn't get the program... .they wouldn't go... .applying was "just a backup"... .and to "take a chance".

Near as we can tell... .she got waitlisted for the program... .but got into the university.

They were talking (they: wife and daughter) at church lunch about when she would move in this fall... .and she is sure she would get into program in future.

I questioned her status... .asked what was going on... .they exchanged "knowing looks"... .and hushed.

My understanding is they are expecting me to sign papers to use veterans benefits for her to go.

My support for her was clearly conditional... .that she got into the program.

So... .you guys see where this is going.

My stance that I need to communicate... .I think... .is that she is an adult and can go where and do what she pleases.

I don't support throwing away a free year... .(I would if she got in the program... .they let in 30 students per year)

I don't see my self signing papers to help my daughter go somewhere and do something I think is foolish.

I have no idea where the money will come from... .most likely a bunch of loans... .and my va benefits. 

My VA benefits are limited... .not an unlimited pot.

Wife is clearly pulling all the strings... .I'm expected to fall in line. 

 

FF

[formflier]

So... .there are a lot of things going on in my life and family... .wife has upped the "I'm in charge" thing


My daughter has fallen in love with a college because of a specific program they have there.

She can stay home and get another free year of school... .and have an associates degree in science.  Yep... .public education here takes you to an associates degree... .for free. 

Daughter is now 18 and would be a traditional senior if she was in regular high school.

Wife pushed daughter to apply... ."just in case".  I was assured that if she didn't get the program... .they wouldn't go... .applying was "just a backup"... .and to "take a chance".

Near as we can tell... .she got waitlisted for the program... .but got into the university.

They were talking (they: wife and daughter) at church lunch about when she would move in this fall... .and she is sure she would get into program in future.

I questioned her status... .asked what was going on... .they exchanged "knowing looks"... .and hushed.

My understanding is they are expecting me to sign papers to use veterans benefits for her to go.

My support for her was clearly conditional... .that she got into the program.

So... .you guys see where this is going.

My stance that I need to communicate... .I think... .is that she is an adult and can go where and do what she pleases.

I don't support throwing away a free year... .(I would if she got in the program... .they let in 30 students per year)

I don't see my self signing papers to help my daughter go somewhere and do something I think is foolish.

I have no idea where the money will come from... .most likely a bunch of loans... .and my va benefits. 

My VA benefits are limited... .not an unlimited pot.

Wife is clearly pulling all the strings... .I'm expected to fall in line. 

 

FF

[Notwendy]

It looks to me that the agreement was contingent on her getting into the program. I think you have the right to stick to what you agreed on.

[EaglesJuju]

Hi FF,

I understand your concerns, you think your wife and daughter are in cahoots and it would be financially wiser to attend a school where there are no costs. What is the real issue here, financial costs, being protective of your daughter, or your wife taking matters into her own hands without discussing things with you?

It seems that your daughter really wants to attend this college. Could there possibly be some sort of compromise such as, your daughter taking out her own loans, until she gets officially "accepted" into the program?  

[vortex of confusion]

What do you mean when you say that the benefits are limited? Would her using your benefits impact the ability for the other kids to use them when they decide to go to college?

Would you be more willing to sign a paper if you were included in the conversation? Have you taken your daughter aside and talked to her one on one to help you understand what it is that she is doing and why?

Is the university difficult to get into? If she doesn't take this opportunity, will it still be an opportunity later? What makes her think she can get into the program that she wants at a later date? I can see some logic to her starting at the university now without getting into the program that she wants. If she takes a class or two in that department without being in the program and impresses her instructors, then that might make it easier for to get into the program at a later date. It is a way for her to get her foot in the door and build up some credentials and university experience.

What is your reason for thinking that what you daughter is doing is foolish? Aside from the money issue.

[formflier]

 

I have about 20 months left... .and 7 kids to put in college.

GI Bill

In my opinion... .she is being foolish with her time... .money... .

I am reluctant to allow her to be foolish with my benefits.

Yeah... .I am also upset at being iced out of decisions and process.

They decided to spend her time on weekends doing something fun... .with no hope of scholarship... .than chasing money.

Also... .that meant she wasn't around to talk to me... .even though I was asking for time with her.

[Notwendy]

There are a lot of questions to consider. First, is the college affordable? Sometimes this isn't completely known until the acceptance and finances become clear. Then, some families have to reconsider.

Did you and your wife fill out the FAFSA for need based aid?

Even if your D took out loans, most freshmen are limited to $5000 a year in loans. I think parents can take out additional ones. I am not entirely sure of this, but you can get accurate info about this from the college FA office.

If your D is elligible for merit aid, some are for entering freshmen so consider this if she gets college credits on her time out, as that would make her a transfer student. This does not affect need based aid. If she isn't eligible for merit aid, then it isn't an issue. You can earn college credits in high school though, so I don't know if home schoolers can delay graduation while getting college credits.

Yes, you did request time with her, but to talk to a teenager takes some extra effort sometimes. You need to talk to her, so perhaps you can have a daddy daughter dinner date, or coffee or some place the two of you can talk.

Are there other entry points into this program ( after two years, grad programs)? I can see where being in the college might help as she would know the professors, take some classes there. How would she like the college if she didn't get into the program? Are there other colleges that offer the program? Is the college something that is hard to get into/academically recognized that would be an advantage if she gets another degree there?

Even if you could afford the college, could you also send your other kids? How would they feel if she got to go and they didn't? For some families, they set up a prescedence of : state school or community college for all the kids, unless someone gets into another option that is comparable because of scholarships or other awards. This way, they can send all the children to college.

Don't feel bad if you have not done this from the get go. Many parents don't know the entire financial picture until a student applies and the costs are figured out. Now that you know this, you can anticipate that it will likely be similar for your younger children and so then you can say to the kids "this is what we can afford. You will all get your associates and then finish at state U. This way we have enough to go around"

[formflier]

 

My daughter started the application process too late for merit aid and scholarships.

OBTW... .I was trying to decompress some... .working on an automobile.  Called an uncle in the family who knows some history on this vehicle.

First thing he said was congrats on the good news that d18 is going away to college this fall... .done deal.

I mentioned that it was up in the air and "if" thing... .he was surprised... .a bit confused.

I dropped the issue.

My wife keeps claiming that this is "just like" when we sent our first son to college and we "have to" do this to be fair and all that.

I have not found one thing about this process that is in any way similar... .not one.  Because he worked hard... .planned... .did a timeline... .applied to things on time... .applied to several things... .he ended up getting almost a full ride to the place he went.

I know there are questions that are unanswered... .I'll get to them later.

We successfully put one in college... .used a process... .we are on 2nd or 3rd story about how or why she is doing this now.

There very limited amount I have been able to talk to d18... .her story is completely different than my wife.

Right now... .my vibe is that she is an adult... .I will tell her I love her and wish her well... .

I think it more important to set the precedent that my love and time are unconditional.

Signatures and $$ from me are conditional... .they are not a right of others to have because they want them.

Part of the goal of me posting here... .is that I want to make sure I have principles correct... .before sitting down with daughter... .and at some point wife.

[formflier]

 

We did verify that all the credits she would take next year... .at the free college... .if she stayed and did that... .would transfer to the one she wants to go to.

She will be 19 years old with two years of college behind her... .if she delayed one year.

It would be free.

there may be a component of her wanting to get away from the drama here. 

She and wife are "buddy buddy"... .and then at drop of hat d18 will be crying after wife chews her up and spits her out... .with daughter JADEing away about how she wasn't thinking this or that... .and that wife had it wrong.

Sigh... .

[Notwendy]

Doing the FAFSA and need based aid is done each year ( since finances can change from year to year).

I don't know how much FA you will qualify for. Not all colleges meet full need but some do. One way to know is to speak to the FA office at the college and see how they do things, if not for this year, next year.

The average cost for a state college + room and board is about 20K. It can vary from state to state. Average cost for private or out of state public is about 40-60K a year. Can you do this X 8?

Yes, I know you did this for S, but this doesn't mean it can be done for 8. You can talk to the FA office about projected costs. This way, you can sit down with D and have a platform to discuss college finances.

Yes, she is 18 and can do what she wants, but colleges assess financial aid and costs for students based on parent income up to age 26 and few 18 year olds can come up with tuition, room and board on their own. Community colleges can be a huge cost savings. Many large families choose this option as well as in state colleges, unless there are good scholarships.

I agree that she may want to get away, but one has to consider costs.

[maxsterling]

I'm going to take a step back here and try and relate this to the broader BPD issue of moving goalposts.

It sounds like your wife wants you to move goalposts.  Am I right?

This is a common struggle in my r/s.  I will say I cave a few conditions that I need to see met first before something happens, and then a few days or a few weeks later it's all forgotten about, and she is pushing for whatever once again.  Current example is me telling her a few months ago that I want her off her meds before we try to have a baby (and along with that is her being able to manage her health issues without the meds).  Other option is her to find a way to manage her heath issues with the meds, and then find a doctor that is willing to sign off on that and convince me that it is safe and no more stress on me.  Second criteria was not that she get a job, but to figure out what she IS going to do to earn money because we can't afford to have a child on my salary alone.  I at minimum want to see wheels in motion here. 

She's done neither.  And she was on my case this morning to start trying for a baby next month.

I think you are dealing with similar here.  Feelings = facts.  You want to be logical and stick to boundaries.  pwBPD don't understand boundaries, and act purely based on emotion.  Your wife wants you to act on emotion and move the goal posts.

[Notwendy]

I understand the dynamics. What momma wanted, she got, no matter what. In fact, saying no to her is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Even if the no makes sense.

Feelings may = facts, but when it comes to paying for college, the cost has to be considered.

I feel for you FF. If my dad wanted peace and quiet, he went out- for coffee or a sandwich. He liked to take walks. He had his favorite coffee shop. Peace and quiet for the price of a cup of coffee... .

[Notwendy]

And Max and FF, I commend you for keeping the boundaries. Getting what she wanted, only lasted temporarily, then it was all about the next thing. I believe the need to do this- keep moving the goalpoast comes from something besides the immediate want. Not sure what that is though.

I think if parents can afford the college that the child loves, then great, but if not, some planning and cost comparing needs to be done. I think FF's son should be commended for doing the work to get a good scholarship. Not doing the FAFSA makes it hard to compare college costs. Since colleges can handle the financial aid aspect differently, they can have different costs even if the total cost is similar. Sometimes a private college can be less expensive than a state 4 year one, if that college is generous with financial aid.

[OffRoad]

I can speak to some of this from experience. H was convinced that if D18 went to a "prestigious" college, she would get better job offers. I know for a fact, you can transfer from a community college to a 4 year (if you prepared properly in community college) and then you still get the degree from the "name brand" college. No one in the job world knows if you went to the 4 year college for 2 years or 4, except in the case of your first job IF they want to look at your transcripts. (Done that, in fact. On VA benefits.)

Stopping right here, you have a problem with your W going behind your back. I had this same problem with H going behind my back. We had originally agreed to send D18 to a college we could afford. D18 wanted to get away from the crazy that is this house. I get that. She could have done the same in a state university. We have several with name brand value. D18 and I visit those schools, she likes several. 6 months later H decides to go on a college trip with D18 to the East coast. Next thing I know, D18 is signed up for a private school in Massachusetts (Not MIT, I'd have found the money somewhere if she had gotten in there). I didn't sign anything. D18 gets a scholarship that covers half the tuition, she takes out $4000 in loans, and we are now bleeding money at home. We live on 1/3 of H's salary. D18 gets 1/3+.  Taxes take the rest.  H is wondering why we have no money. S16 realizes there will be no money for him to go to college. When I try to explain, H dysregulates. D18, while very intelligent, is in a program that teaches at an accelerated rate and she has dyslexia and dysgraphia (sore points for H because he also has dyslexia and dysgraphia). She is barely passing, and needs Skype help on a regular basis. Even if she makes it through this program, it's doubtful she is going to do well in this field, although she may be able to channel it into an area she would do well in. We will be spending over $150,000 for this education (when you include food and lodging) and that doesn't include the loans D18 will have to pay back.

Additionally, one of her friends was accepted at a different school, but not in her major. She went ahead and went to the school thinking she could transfer to her major, but CANNOT GET INTO ANY CLASSES IN THE MAJOR SHE WANTS. She has paid out a years worth of college and has NOTHING in the way of the major she wants finished.

FF, don't sign any papers unless you are 100% convinced that this is the only thing to do. See if you can talk to your daughter alone. She may be OK with not going this coming year. This is no way to make a decision that will affect the entire family financially.

[formflier]

I understand the dynamics. What momma wanted, she got, no matter what. In fact, saying no to her is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Even if the no makes sense.

Feelings may = facts, but when it comes to paying for college, the cost has to be considered.

I feel for you FF. If my dad wanted peace and quiet, he went out- for coffee or a sandwich. He liked to take walks. He had his favorite coffee shop. Peace and quiet for the price of a cup of coffee... .

What did he do when he wanted to spend time with his kids?

[formflier]

 

So... .the precedent I believe got set with my s19 (oldest) is that wife and I were on same page about looking at possibilities (we tried MIT) didn't make it... .but we knew it was long shot... .we tried.

And... .same attitude... .if we could have gotten him in... .we would have figured it out.

We jointly talked... .helped on scholarship apps... .took trips together... .

Ended up with two main schools... .great reputations... .but one was chasing out of state students... .the other wasn't... .so the scholarship offer from the  school that was chasing... .was much better.  

The choice was obvious.  Son loves school... .and is doing well... .first paid internship this summer.  $22 per hour... .for college internship!  $5k signing bonus... . Good grief... .

I suspect we will verify this coming week... .if she is really waitlisted... .or if she just hasn't been accepted to her program... .yet.  My gut says she is waitlisted.

OBTW... .neighbors came by for party thing tonight... .seemed to go well.  First thing they said  was "hey... .heard the good news on your school... .when do you move in.  My daughter coughed up a date in August... . 

So... .I want to be open minded and realistic here... .and I want to deal with all the facts... .so I don't think I will push until we know for sure... .if she is in the program.

However... .there are 6 more to come.  It would seem that last thing I want to agree to is "whoops... .we forgot to talk to Daddy... ."  and expect there to be a signature from me to fix or facilitate their plans.

Especially... .when you have the option of a free year... .and about a slam dunk that all classes are transferable.  

[Notwendy]

My Dad had plenty of time with us- he took us out too. Some of the time that was for meals, but it was also to places like the zoo, museums, parks. Dad also did things with us at home- he helped with homework, sometimes played games with us. In our family, Dad was the hands on parent.

This isn't the case in my own family, or my H's family, and so, perhaps in the more traditional role families, this isn't the way things were done. I don't know if my father had this modeled for him, or he took on the hands on role because mom didn't. I know that when we visit my in laws, father in law was very passive about family activities. MIL did all the planning, cooking, orchestrating the activities while father in law passively participated. He didn't intitiate a converstion, but would talk to us if we did. So the message in that family was that father in law expected others to initiate a relationship with him.There was also the idea that getting together had to be a family event with everyone participating- or at least mother in law had to be there for father in law to consider it. There were no father- child events, or very few of them.

This was the prevailing idea that H brought into our family. If I suggested he do something alone with the kids, then he'd balk, for several reasons, especially during the years he painted me black. I recall one family activity that I wasn't feeling well, asked him and the kids to go ( it was pre-arranged so he had no work to do) and he had a fit, insisting it had to be family until I dragged myself out of bed and miserably went along. The result of his ideas though was that he didn't have alone time with his kids and started blaming me for that too ( of course everything is my fault    " you are keeping me from my kids" or blaming the kids " they don't want to spend time with me". Neither of that was true.

So, I began to push the idea of daddy-kid outings. At first, he was resistant. He wanted family outings, but that didn't give him the relationship with him as an individual that he wanted ( and that I think is important). I told him that it was important that he initiated these dates- since they were getting older and had their own schedules. Eventually, he did this ( they were past the diaper-potty- whining stage). He'd usually try to coerce me to come too, and I refused. If he feared that I would make him take on all the parenting, I was not going to give up my time with the kids- I just wanted to have him have some time too. It wouldn't be with all of them- sometimes he would take one child out and take turns having one on one with the kids. I think he does feel more included now.

I know you don't blame your wife like my H did, or blame the kids. It seems you arrange family time, and then she does something else. However, since you are more traditional like my H's family, I wonder if you are similar to this model in that the father is present but somehow more passive about the relationship. I have heard my H say " I was here and the kids didn't talk to me" or "why didn't _____ talk to me about that" to which I replied " did you make a point to talk to ____________". If the kids ask me something- even if I am fine with making that decision- I also say " go ask/tell your father".

My H has said " why should I do this?" ( makemore  efforts to spend daddy time with the kids). It's a very unatural idea to him and he has not had it modeled for him. However, my H also talks about how he wishes he had a closer relationship with his dad. My parents had issues- however, I did, for the most part, have a good relationship with my dad and I cherish the great memories I have of the times Dad took us to the zoo, museum- but it could have been anywhere. I wanted my H and kids to have this too.

Perhaps there is a way you can arrange a date with your boys for instance. You come home and the extra kid is there, or the boys are at grandmas. You get in the car, take the boys with you, or go to grandmas, pick them up and you leave. Like that. If you have pre-arranged the date, then it isn't a surprise, even if your wife gets upset. If you plan "family time" then that leaves room for her to change it at the last minute. Daddy time is something you can do, even if you find that the kids are otherwise occupied, because you and the kids can leave and go do something.

[Notwendy]

For the college thing- Isn't May 1 the deadline to accept? You can do that, and if you come off the waitlist somewhere else, then you would lose your deposit, but that's a lot less than a ton of tuition. The only rule I know of is that you can't have more than one deposit at one college. So, your D can accept the spot at the college and wait to hear if she is into the program or other options. It is also possible that someone will give up a spot in the program to go to another college and that she could get offered a spot. So it is possible to accept the spot and wait this out while finding more information. Also, while most merit awards are for incoming freshmen, and she has missed that deadline, you have to apply for need based finacial aid every years and so doing the FAFSA might make subsequent years cheaper. FAFSA also considers for more than one child in college. Even if your son has a full ride, applying for aid for both of them might result in you getting more financial aid next year.

Now that you have experienced this with two kids- one who met deadlines, and one who did not, you can establish some precedents with your other kids. It seems that you were more involved with this with your son than your daughter? This worked out pretty well so you can also do this with the other kids.

[formflier]

Now that you have experienced this with two kids- one who met deadlines, and one who did not, you can establish some precedents with your other kids. It seems that you were more involved with this with your son than your daughter? This worked out pretty well so you can also do this with the other kids.

It depends on how much I want to "fight" my wife to do it.

Not sure if I made it clear... .but my wife has had 3-4 stories about why daughter is doing this... .all seemed designed to put off conflict/discussion... .and I was told not to worry... .there is no commitment.

My daughter and wife have been talking/planning... .taking trips (orchestrated by wifes family)... .

It is possible they may be able to pull this off without me... .or they may have to... .if that is their desire.

I'm still not reading or seeing a compelling argument... .or something I haven't thought of to make me want to sign or participate in sending her to college... .when I was "iced out" of the planning process... .given misinformation... .etc etc

[Notwendy]

Dealing with this at the last minute is difficult.It isn't entirely your D's fault if she has heard mixed messages all along from different people. This may always be the case. However, you also have a voice in this, and it isn't only with your wife, but with your ( soon to be) adult child. Kids don't have a good idea of what college costs. How could they? Most kids this age have not earned this kind of money, but they are part of a whole peer group applying to college and so, they expect to do this as well. Moreso, parents and teachers expect bright students to apply to college.

Yet, the real world is that if you want something that costs X, and all you have is X-Y, then you either don't get X or you come up with the Y. In college this means applying to scholarships and/or choosing a more affordable path. Sometimes parents don't see the whole picture until they are here, where you are, with the numbers in front of them. Don't be hard on yourself. It is heartbreaking to say no at this point. If you don't have to, then it may be best not to say no. However, if you don't have X, then this is a real world choice.

You may have been left out of the loop on this one and it is possible you are out of the loop on all of them. But if your kids need your financial help, then you have a voice. It is better, emotionally to have this known up front. It doesn't have to involve mom. It can be you and the child. The full cost of college can be seen on college board site, where they register for their SAT's. I know you know this. You can do the math. You can sit down with your kids and say, I have Z dollars for college. You can apply where you want, however, this list must include the local community and state colleges that cost Z. For all other colleges, you need to apply for scholarships, we parents need to do the FAFSA. When you get the results, we will talk about costs and choices. Also, you can meet with them along the way to hear their thoughts about their goals. It may come down to a fight with your wife, but it doesn't have to be a fight with your kids if you have discussed this along the way and they understand the decisions.

[Notwendy]

I'm drawing on some personal experience here too.  As I mentioned, H tends to be passive. This isn't a criticism, it is from his own traditonal upbringing where Dad rules the roost but expects to be told everything. It has played out in all kinds of things. I can recall him telling me we have money to paint and wallpaper a room, and after I have spent hours looking at paint chips and paper, he can veto all that work in an instance. Yet he didn't take the time to look himself.

When my H is gone a lot at work, it is hard to keep him up to date. Since the default mode in BPD land  when dad (or mom) doesn't get his/her way is a rage or dysregulation, then people will often give in, for their own sanity. So the person learns that getting mad gets their way. My H truly wants the kids to go to college. He would not imagine them not going. However, when he dysregulates, what he says is more reflective of his anger at the moment and he fights to win- will say the opposite of what I want.

If the kids need something that involves money, I have to bring H some factual written information about costs... .Usually he will grunt or say : "I know I know", but he won't agree. Eventually though, if it is reasonable, he will decide on it with the kids.  If this becomes something between him and them, then the emotionality of me in the middle isn't part of the picture ( he dysragulates more with me in the picture, because then, he makes it about me).

I know you don't have BPD, but I wonder if the traditional model of the man as the head of the household isn't as effective as you would wish it was. You can still have your traditional role as you have chosen for your family, but it may also mean that to do this, you may need to be more active in areas that you may not think you need to be in. I surely wish that my H was more agreeable with my ideas, but he is not. So I know that for him to consider something expensive for the kids, it has to be his idea. For that to happen, he needs to work it out with the kids, and not with me in the middle.

In my family it was mixed up. Mom didn't want to give anything to me, but she did to the "white child". I was the black child. Dad had to approach me with the "mother won't let me pay tuition" talk. Yet the white child got a full pay private school because mother wanted that. However, since I knew all along that I could not depend on Dad, since that depended on mom's moods at the moment, I made sure that I attended a college that was the most affordable and I worked all along to make it that way. Dad helped when he could. I was aware the entire time that at any moment, I would not get a check from dad.

Thankfully, my H's main issue is with me, not the kids. If he agrees with me, then somehow his power as man of the house is diminished for him. Perhaps this is how your wife feels- that if she gives in to something you want, then somehow she loses power? I find that my H is more agreeable to requests if they come from someone else. Something like paying for college would be a decision between him and the kids. Of course I want it too, but it really is about them.


FF, you have to put money up for this for this to happen, then you have to make some kind of decision for your child, and tell her why that is. If she wants X, and you have X-Y, she needs to know this. Maybe your in laws are willing to give her Y.

[vortex of confusion]

It is possible they may be able to pull this off without me... .or they may have to... .if that is their desire.

I'm still not reading or seeing a compelling argument... .or something I haven't thought of to make me want to sign or participate in sending her to college... .when I was "iced out" of the planning process... .given misinformation... .etc etc

Stick to you boundary!

If you are approached about something, would it be possible to say something along the lines of, "I was left out of these decisions. I will not sign anything. I will continue to let the two of you figure this out."

[formflier]

If you are approached about something, would it be possible to say something along the lines of, "I was left out of these decisions. I will not sign anything. I will continue to let the two of you figure this out."

This is generally my plan.

Especially... .since I was told this was a "chance"... .backup plan... .see if she could get in.  And it appears she didn't.

If she got the program she wanted... .I would think totally different.

Sigh... .


Notwendy... .the nuance here is I was not passive... .I was asking... .and getting stories... .the stories changed some... .there was some new information that caused some legit change... .but... .it appeared to me there was active effort to avoid "dealing with me" and my questions... .concerns... .input.

Then... ."poof"... .people I bump into on street are congratulating me on daughters decision to go... .asking date she goes... .done deal.

My quick question about waitlist was eyerolled... .people hurried off.

I am not a passive guy... .it is my belief that my wife wants a passive guy now... .up until the point she wants me to do something her way... .or rubber stamp something.  Thought that disagrees with hers... .not good... .

FF

[123Phoebe]

Hi FF, I can see your point and this is a tough one to navigate.

Someone recently asked me (when I was expressing my case about something to them):  Is this the hill you want to die on?

In your case, it might be.  In my case it wasn't.  By putting it in black and white that way, it gave me space to see the full color-spectrum, making my decision that much simpler. 

My "advice" is to talk to your daughter.  Get a good feel on how important this is to her and why she feels the way she does... . 

Good luck!

[Notwendy]

I agree that it is important to talk to your D about this.

Ultimately though, the financial agreement responsibilty is something that belongs to your D. She is the one going to college. Since most students this age are financially dependent on their parents, they have to be a part of the contract between them and the Bank of Mom and Dad.

I wanted college. Mom controlled the money that dad gave me. I had to figure out a way to do it on the amount I had- and I did. This was the circumstances I had to work with.

Your D and your wife may have configured all kinds of ideas and situations behind your back, but the reality also includes how much it costs and how much you can pay.  

Whatever is going on with your wife, this ultimately isn't as much between the two of you as it is between you and your D. If this decision is based between you and your wife, your D could be the victim of this.

Deciding you have X amount of money for college per kid is objective and unemotional. Those who get a full ride like your son might use their balance for grad school, or study abroad, or other academic expenses.

[GaGrl]

With one in college and seven to go, sounds like a family college finance policy would be a good thing to put in place now -- no surprises for anyone down the road.

[Grey Kitty]

My thoughts are this:

1. It is your VA benefit. You sign to use it. Or don't sign to not use it. You don't have to tell your wife this. All you have to do is not sign. (Hopefully she won't forge your signature)

2. Talk to your daughter. Listen to her. Try to deal with her directly instead of with your wife on this one. And make it clear that if she wants your support in getting to college, she has to be truthful with you, and work with you. If she wants to do it without you (and without your VA benefits), she doesn't have to involve you at all. She's close enough to an adult to be dealt with as one.

[formflier]

 

It is a sure thing that she is waitlisted.  Wed evening there seems to be time for D18 and I to spend some time together. 

FF

[Notwendy]

I'm glad you will have the chance to speak to your D. Most of all, this decision affects her. Although your conflicts with her mom over this are considerable, she didn't choose the parents she got. This is her future.

If the college is economically feasable, and her heart is set on it- regardless of the program, then I hope she will be able to go, even if your wife didn't adhere to your wishes, this is not your D's doing. If the college is not affordable, then your D deserves the truth.

She's 18, and is going to go out on her own as an adult eventually. From this moment onward, the relationship between the two of you depends on her choosing. She didn't choose to be born to you and your wife, but she will choose how much you will be in her life.

I speak from the heart here, FF. For much of my teen years, I counted the days to where I could leave for college and escape the chaos of my home and my parents' issues. It took a lot longer for me to actually undertstand the situation. I had to grow up too. It took a long time for me to actually not hate my mother. However, although I am aware of my father's part in their dynamics, not for one moment did I ever hate him. Neither do I hate my mother, however, I don't have the connection with her that I did with my father.

My mother did what she could, but she didn't bond well with me. However, my father did. You, at this moment, have the opportunity to forge a relationship with this grown up young woman, who is your biological D, but from this point on, gets to choose to be your daughter as an adult.