BPD Wife giving up our son?

[LeonVa]

Hell All:

So my BPD wife cracked again. We've been recently separated and I haven't seen my kid for 3 weeks which originally, I agreed to have her keep the kid while we work out the separation agreement (we agreed on most of the issues during this time).

So I just asked her today if I can start seeing the kid and she started to bring up everything from past,  you said, I said stuff. I did not engage her and said I respect your version of the story if that's what you believe and that's fine.  That's it, nothing else.

She cracked afterwards.

At first, we agreed to a Sunday to Sunday noon exchange, then she changed to Friday to Friday, so she doesn't have to see me and then she followed up in an email saying if I insist, I can have our son all to myself and she will give up all her rights to our son?

I mean I'm glad at first, I couldn't believe she put that in writing (not sure if that holds any ground in court), but why would she do that as a mother? I do want my son to be involved with both of us equally and I know she loves our son.

Another spur of the moment anger or do you guys think she's serious about it?

[livednlearned]

In my experience, there was not much that was consistent in my ex's behavior, except that it was inconsistent. I think parenting is extremely challenging for someone with BPD. Stress is a trigger, and raising a child can be stressful, even for someone without a mental illness. Your wife may feel saddled with the responsibility, and does not feel capable of doing what she needs to do. This doesn't mean she doesn't love your son.

BPD mothers tend to have disorganized attachment styles to their children, which can have a very traumatizing and long-term effect on the child. If she does give up her parental rights, jump on the opportunity. Maybe find out from a lawyer what the legal paperwork requires so you can make it official.

The fact that she is able to work with you on separation agreement suggests she is not a High Conflict Personality (HCP). Not all BPD people are HCPs in family court, according to Bill Eddy. Although HCPs always have a PD.

What do you plan to do with the information? Have you read anything about BPD parenting and the effects on the kids? That might help you get a sense of where to take this next.

[ForeverDad]

It could be her mood of the moment.  People with BPD (pwBPD) are known to have volatile mood swings.

Frankly, that she is so willing to ponder how to make exchanges for equal time, that is a real plus.  It shows that either your area defaults to equal time or she is not as controlling/possessive as many PD parents described here.  My history, (1) before we separated I recall my ex telling me I'd never see my preschooler again, (2) she sometimes relented and said she might let me see him a little, (3) court gave her a temp order with 78% majority time and me alternate weekends, (4) in mediation she 'offered' me alternate weekends, (5) in final decree it was equal time/custody, (6) three years later I got legal custody and (7) three more years and I finally got majority time.  Eight years in and out of court and tens of thousands in legal fees.  If you can get a workable agreement that puts you clearly in charge, it will save you much grief, expense and conflict, so much the better for your children, you, your wallet and your health.

However, do not try to make her parent.  You could be needlessly causing yourself more struggle and angst than by just letting her walk away, whether walking away is just a little or a lot.

And consider this... . if you get more parenting time and authority, you know that you could always let her have a greater share during the times she is less unstable.  But if you try to be 'fair' on paper now and she continues being unstable, difficult or even obstructive, you may not get her to agree later.  If that happened, then you and the kids would have to live with the results.  Maybe you could go back to court later to fix bad choices but it would take time, money and precious energy.  Better to work out an order that favors the children and their long term welfare over the parents.  So understand that being overly nice now is likely to be self-sabotaging later on.

Be aware, it's unusual to have a parent give up parental rights.  Court will likely want to be sure she understands what that means.  So if she agrees to that, do have backup strategies in case she reneges and wants back into parenting.  As long as she is not abusive, neglectful or endangering, court might actually prefer to have her involved to some extent, perhaps alternate weekends.  Some parents have just one or two weekends a month, or short weekends, or just day visits on occasional weekends, etc.  Ponder what is best for your circumstances.  Same goes for custody, it is sometimes difficult to get sole custody.

It is key that you Let Go the natural urge to be overly fair, overly nice or overly whatever.  You know you can be nicer than what the papers and orders state if she behaves herself.  Conversely, you know she can be much more difficult and obstructive than what the papers and orders state.

Custody... . So realistically, whether you get it or not, your strategy should probably be to seek at least (1) sole custody or (2) joint custody with Decision-Making or (3) joint custody with Tie-Breaker.  You are the stable parent who is more likely to share consistently, so you would be sabotaging yourself if you 'gift' that away.

Parenting schedule... . So realistically, whether you get it or not, your strategy should probably be to seek at least (1) majority time, (2) equal time or (3) maximum you can get.

Don't forget, you must be Residential Parent for School Purposes.  If she gets that then whenever she moves you would have to follow her.  Even with equal time in joint custody, being RP can be a slight advantage down the road.

Understand it is not mean of you to seek the best for your children.  In fact, if you failed to do that you'd be doing a disservice to them.  (If court says No to something, well, then you have to accept it, but don't say No to yourself!)

I haven't seen my kid for 3 weeks which originally, I agreed to have her keep the kid while we work out the separation agreement (we agreed on most of the issues during this time).

This is not preferable.  You need to see your children regularly, especially now during the transition to two households!

I mean I'm glad at first, I couldn't believe she put that in writing (not sure if that holds any ground in court), but why would she do that as a mother? I do want my son to be involved with both of us equally and I know she loves our son.

Beware for being too fair.  It may feel right now but that approach has the potential to haunt you for years to come should she become oppositional and obstructive.

[LeonVa]

Thanks @livednlearned.  Yeah, the separation agreement was surprisingly, relatively easy, though, I had to "lead" her to solutions otherwise, she keeps stuck on one way that's not doable and can not think of any other ways until I bring up a solution.

I did read about the impact BPD parent have on their kids and I am honestly scared.  If she does insist on give up her parental rights, I'll definitely jump on it.  Right now, looks like just another out the world episode. I'll have to see.

@ForeverDad, you have so many good points. I'll have to write them down. Depends on how she behaves during finalizing the agreement, I definitely like the #2 joint custody with decision making as that will save me so much hassles, I can just see how she will give me grief.  I'll definitely see if I can get the residential parent for school purpose as well when we finalize the divorce.

I talked to my lawyer just earlier and they couldn't believe she wrote that down in writing in an email... . so they just recommended me to document document in case we need to get nasty later.

Thanks guys, it's really great to hear suggestions from those of you who have been there!

[livednlearned]

In many ways, the most important thing is getting decision-making. In my state, they split legal custody so that you can actually have joint legal, but one parent has decision-making. I guess that makes people feel like they haven't "lost" anything, even though decision-making basically gives you primary legal custody.

See if you can get her to agree to that. Maybe suggest is as though it makes sense for you to be that person because you tend to be the person thinking about solutions.

Because chances are your ex will start to slowly give away parenting time. In some BPD custody situations, this happens. It can also happen if you make it a stipulation of the custody agreement that she gets a psych evaluation or counseling. It's pretty awful having a court order counseling, whether you're BPD or not. But people with BPD tend to have an even tougher time with it.

When the court ordered counseling and treatment for my ex, that's when everything unraveled and he basically walked away from being a parent in my son's life.

[LeonVa]

@livednlearned, man, yeah, I guess I'll have to think about it like @ForeverDad says, "Let go the nature urge to be overly fair", as I know for a fact she will go banana if I bring up the court ordered psych evaluation. I guess I'm still in the old mode of trying not to over agitate her, still feeling like walking on the egg shell. 

The last reply she had with me was last Friday about giving up her right to keep him, so I picked up my son, surprisingly, my son haven't asked for her much the whole weekend.  At the advice of lawyer, he recommended me to contact her again on Thursday night, to make sure if she will pick up my son this Friday or not and do the exchange.

[livednlearned]

Hi LeonVa,

I think it's a process, learning to have boundaries and stop walking on eggshells. I slowly got stronger over time, although it was sheer love and care for my son that made things move as quickly as they did. My ex worked actively to sabotage services S13 needed, and I got tired of seeing the effect of ex's behavior. Read up on boundaries! That will help you stay centered, and focused on preventing the worst fall-outs.

Your son probably does not have a secure attachment to his mom. People with BPD tend to have disorganized attachment styles, and they bring that to their parenting. That's why you have to develop a secure attachment with your son, since he is likely learning some unhealthy bonding styles from his mom.

By the time I left the marriage with S13 (9 at the time), he didn't blink an eye at the idea of not seeing his dad. There was no bond. And when visitation got terminated last year, S13 barely shrugged his shoulders. It will probably take him a long time to process the sadness, but the lack of bonding is so pervasive and long-term that it's all he's ever really known.

LnL

[momtara]

I'd get everything in writing that you can. Who knows, tomorrow she may want your child ALL the time!  Even temporary arrangements can be permanent. Take as much time as you can now, and document it for future use.

[catnap]

Make sure you get the police report(s) and give them to your lawyer. 

There was an incident at home, she accidentally locked our son in the bedroom, called me to come home immediately from work. When I got home (within 25 minutes), she already chopped a huge hole through the door using a butcher's knife we have at home, and crawled inside. She was with our son already. 

That's fine. I don't mind the door, it can always be fixed. I simply asked "what happened?" That was enough to set her off and began a tirade of allegations against how my mom tried to prevent her from saving our son (illogical and false allegation),  then threatened to call the police. I tried to reason with her about her overreaction, but forgotten she can't be reasoned especially at a moment like that... . we exchanged words for at MOST 2 minutes after I got home, she called the police.

On the phone, I heard from outside of the bedroom that she alleged that not only my mom was preventing her from saving our son, but also about me threatening her life, completely false. (At the time i still couldn't get into the bedroom yet due to the lock was damaged from her chopping). After hearing that, I stepped out of the house immediately and luckily there were neighbors outside. I waited till the police officers came (6 cops showed up), and the first thing of the first police officer on site asked me was "where is the knife?".

I told him she used a knife to chop down the door, it could still be outside the bedroom but I have not touched it.  We got into the house, 1 police officer stayed with me and my mom at down stair, 5 went up.

Long story short, the lead officer simply said it looks simply like a case of the differences in opinions about how to save our son and told her the fire station is within 1 minute walking distance from our house, she should simply either call or walk over to the fire station. I got the feeling even the police officers thought she was way over reacting, as she called them AFTER she already saved our son and it was mainly about me threatening her. They took our names and left.

[ForeverDad]

I guess I'll have to think about it like @ForeverDad says, "Let go the natural urge to be overly fair", as I know for a fact she will go banana if I bring up the court ordered psych evaluation. I guess I'm still in the old mode of trying not to over agitate her, still feeling like walking on the egg shell.

Yes, you don't want to trigger her unnecessarily but you also need to avoid sabotaging yourself and your parenting, a real danger.

The last reply she had with me was last Friday about giving up her right to keep him, so I picked up my son, surprisingly, my son haven't asked for her much the whole weekend.

I recall the first 6 days post-separation.  She was taken away for the weekend (orange suit time) then she was busy finding herself a place to live, eventually living for a few months in a local battered women's shelter named "House of Peace".  Actually I had the House of Peace and Quiet, the silence was deafening.  Well, the first night and the next our preschooler woke up and asked where mommy was.  For 6 days that was it.  In an effort to be fair about her, now I see as ill-conceived and self-sabotaging, I mentioned her once or twice and he immediately changed the subject.  He had peace and calm now, he most definitely did not want to talk about his mother.  While she was gone she sought an Ex Parte order claiming I was abusive, yes it was a high conflict case for years, so I had to take him to an exchange.  The entire trip there he was literally begging me to take him back home, that he wanted to stay with me.  But I had to obey the Order.  I had to learn quickly not to 'gift' her the benefit of the doubt because she would snatch it and sure didn't reciprocate that perspective.

At the advice of lawyer, he recommended me to contact her again on Thursday night, to make sure if she will pick up my son this Friday or not and do the exchange.

This is solely to avoid her claiming that you are obstructing her parenting.  Until clear patterns emerge over time, ask her IF she will pick up son.  Don't ask her TO pick up son or to parent more.  As appropriate, let her find her own level of parenting that is comfortable for her as long as it doesn't shortchange or sabotage your own parenting.

[livednlearned]

The tendency to overreact to stressful situations and then make false, accusatory allegations of anyone nearby -- this is what needs to be top of mind when you are dealing with someone who has BPD and are about to file for divorce.

Take this behavior as a helpful warning about what future behavior is likely to be like, and protect yourself by documenting, or having a video or voice recorder on when you are around her. You may not be able to use it as evidence if it comes to a court battle, but law enforcement might be willing to have a listen or look, and that could be the difference between sleeping in your own bed or spending the night in jail.