The Positive Aftermath

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Or, How I Learned To Be A Friend To My dBPDex And Took Myself Out of My Own Suffering.  (No, I don't suggest this for everyone, it is just how my particular experience with this disorder has played out.)

I know, I know... .sounds crazy.  So much pain.  Too much hurt.  "I can't trust him."  "He will just manipulate me." "I love him too much to be friends with him."  "He treated me like an object." And other assorted thoughts in the direction of NO WAY.  It feels impossible.  I know.  And, honestly, it was when I was freshly wounded from a relationship with him.  But, given time and proper self-awareness, it can be done.  It has required a lot of introspection, meditation, therapy and mindfulness on my part.  It needs strength that I lacked when I was with him and it has helped me heal my own codependent ways.  It requires that I not take his sh*t personally, and allow him to express his feelings in the only way that he knows how.  And most of all, it requires heaps upon heaps of EMPATHY and VALIDATION, both of which I lacked during our relationship.

But, it is possible.

My story is thus:  I met my ex at a trade school for what is now our shared line of work.  He was going through a separation and subsequent divorce and warned me many times that he is no good for me.  But I pushed for a relationship anyway.  There was plenty of lying, emotional abuse, triggering, arguing, cheating and drama.  There was also plenty of love, passion, sharing, laughs, growth and happiness.  In the end, I lost myself in him and I also hurt him in ways that I hadn't realized even though he was telling me that I was.  I was so lost in my own pain and my own hurt from his behavior that I left no room for his pain that he was so strongly trying to communicate to me.  I blocked out his hurt, because my own was that much more important to me.  All that did was end up making him hurt worse.  I wasn't listening to him when he told me that what I was doing was hurting him.  Basically, he felt that I was making my career more important in my life than him.  In my head, I was working for both of us.  My success was his.  But he was unable to see it that way and took my focus on my career as an affront to him and what we had planned to build together.  In my head, I was doing the "right" thing by building a strong career and working in places that would advance said career.  In my head, I was building FOR us, but in his head, I was only building for me.  He sacrificed his career growth, in the same field, in order to gain certain things that would put US in a position to start a family and grow as a couple.  Where I saw my career focus as good for both of us, he saw his way as the right way to do it.  Basically, we were heading the same direction with different maps.  For him, his way was the only way, and for me, my way was the best way.  Both ways would eventually lead to the same outcome, but they were vastly different in execution.  My career growth became a trigger for him because to him, it meant that he wasn't as important to me as that.  It made him feel as though he was second place in my life, even though I never meant to or intended to hurt him by having career goals and working hard to better myself in my craft.  And when he told me that he was hurt, I didn't listen, because I was working to better my career for both of us, so he must be wrong.  I lacked empathy.  It never mattered that I felt that I was doing the right thing, what mattered is that I wasn't listening to him when he told me that his feelings were hurt.  He felt as though he put in a lot of work toward building a better life for us and that I had ignored that and did what I wanted to do (even though I felt as though I was doing good for both of us by building a strong career where he had sacrificed his).  And of course, his way of dealing with his pain was cheating.  And he felt it justified to do so since I was hurting him so much.  In the end, he gave me the boot and when I decided to go full NC (abandonment), he commenced a several months' binge of drinking and self-destruction.

About three months ago, he contacted me in what I felt was a strange and bullying fashion - lots of victim-playing and blame-shifting and "I will only engage in this discussion via phone or FaceTime."  I deleted forever.  But then he sent the same email to my business address.  Also deleted.  Then he called, which threw me off because I thought I'd blocked him, but what I had actually done was input the wrong phone number, which didn't block him from calling me at all.  I ignored the first call.  He said he had some W-2's that were sent to the address that we shared with one another.  I contacted my employers and had new ones sent.  So I called him back to very briefly let him know "you can destroy those W-2's.  Thank you." and hung up.  He called right back to talk.  I listened to what he had to say and didn't say much on my own behalf.  That lead to further communication and the airing of grievances, the feats of strength, the feast... .it was basically Festivus for a few weeks.  I was still holding up my wall with him, thinking that I was protecting myself, but upon the reflection that I'd learned but somehow forgotten during the months that I was away from him, I recognized that I was feeding into his sh*t again and not practicing the empathy and validation that he so very much needed.  So I stopped that behavior right away, and have been utilizing all the validation and empathy that I know, even as he sits there and tells me how much I've hurt him and how it's my fault that his life is the way it is right now. But, I don't let it bother me like I once did. I don't allow myself to be dragged into his reality as I once did.  And because of that, I am able to remain objective to his thoughts and feelings and I have become someone that he can turn to when dysregulated and help him come back to his center.  Everything is still all my fault, and that's okay with me... .because I know that it's not and I won't give in to that idea.  I simply allow him the time and opportunity to vent and validate his feelings, don't coddle him or judge him and direct the flow of conversation with an empathetic ear.  What starts out as blaming me, usually leads to him opening up about what is really bothering him and I help him work through it without getting caught up in his emotional state.  I don't act as therapist in that sense and am careful not to give advice.  I simply listen, validate and ask questions that help him through his feelings.  I know that he is not currently in therapy, so I do still tread lightly on that topic, but I do say things like, "when I see my therapist, we discuss [this]."  I don't explicity suggest or tell him what he should do in regard to his own mental health, I simply listen, validate and empathize. He does actually apologize for the past and also any time he blows up at me or becomes dysregulated, which is the opposite of how it was when we were together.  Whether he means it or not doesn't really matter anymore.  He makes the effort and that matters.  It's important to me and it's important to him.  He still is unable to validate, but I don't expect him to be able to learn that without some professional help, so I don't expect it from him anyway. 

I am not perfect and still make some mistakes, but he and I have come to a good place and I actually feel good about myself for being able to help him in any way.  He is not a monster after all, he is a frightened child in need of support.  Of course I still love him and care very much for him, but we both know that I cannot offer him what he needs in a life partner, so we keep things platonic (even though he does have his moments of love bombing from time to time and he still feels the need to tell me how much he misses me and wishes that we could be together.  We deal with these moments as they come and I uphold my boundaries so as not to give any false messages to him.)

It's not always easy, and it's not recommended for everyone.  My ex happens to be a very quiet, waif-ish borderline without violent or suicidal tendencies.  This type of relationship won't be possible for everyone, and I don't recommend anything, but it works for me for now and it has greatly helped me with my own suffering in regard to our past with one another.

My relationship with him wasn't positive for either one of us, but our current situation is good for both of us.  It is possible.

[maternal]

Or, How I Learned To Be A Friend To My dBPDex And Took Myself Out of My Own Suffering.  (No, I don't suggest this for everyone, it is just how my particular experience with this disorder has played out.)

I know, I know... .sounds crazy.  So much pain.  Too much hurt.  "I can't trust him."  "He will just manipulate me." "I love him too much to be friends with him."  "He treated me like an object." And other assorted thoughts in the direction of NO WAY.  It feels impossible.  I know.  And, honestly, it was when I was freshly wounded from a relationship with him.  But, given time and proper self-awareness, it can be done.  It has required a lot of introspection, meditation, therapy and mindfulness on my part.  It needs strength that I lacked when I was with him and it has helped me heal my own codependent ways.  It requires that I not take his sh*t personally, and allow him to express his feelings in the only way that he knows how.  And most of all, it requires heaps upon heaps of EMPATHY and VALIDATION, both of which I lacked during our relationship.

But, it is possible.

My story is thus:  I met my ex at a trade school for what is now our shared line of work.  He was going through a separation and subsequent divorce and warned me many times that he is no good for me.  But I pushed for a relationship anyway.  There was plenty of lying, emotional abuse, triggering, arguing, cheating and drama.  There was also plenty of love, passion, sharing, laughs, growth and happiness.  In the end, I lost myself in him and I also hurt him in ways that I hadn't realized even though he was telling me that I was.  I was so lost in my own pain and my own hurt from his behavior that I left no room for his pain that he was so strongly trying to communicate to me.  I blocked out his hurt, because my own was that much more important to me.  All that did was end up making him hurt worse.  I wasn't listening to him when he told me that what I was doing was hurting him.  Basically, he felt that I was making my career more important in my life than him.  In my head, I was working for both of us.  My success was his.  But he was unable to see it that way and took my focus on my career as an affront to him and what we had planned to build together.  In my head, I was doing the "right" thing by building a strong career and working in places that would advance said career.  In my head, I was building FOR us, but in his head, I was only building for me.  He sacrificed his career growth, in the same field, in order to gain certain things that would put US in a position to start a family and grow as a couple.  Where I saw my career focus as good for both of us, he saw his way as the right way to do it.  Basically, we were heading the same direction with different maps.  For him, his way was the only way, and for me, my way was the best way.  Both ways would eventually lead to the same outcome, but they were vastly different in execution.  My career growth became a trigger for him because to him, it meant that he wasn't as important to me as that.  It made him feel as though he was second place in my life, even though I never meant to or intended to hurt him by having career goals and working hard to better myself in my craft.  And when he told me that he was hurt, I didn't listen, because I was working to better my career for both of us, so he must be wrong.  I lacked empathy.  It never mattered that I felt that I was doing the right thing, what mattered is that I wasn't listening to him when he told me that his feelings were hurt.  He felt as though he put in a lot of work toward building a better life for us and that I had ignored that and did what I wanted to do (even though I felt as though I was doing good for both of us by building a strong career where he had sacrificed his).  And of course, his way of dealing with his pain was cheating.  And he felt it justified to do so since I was hurting him so much.  In the end, he gave me the boot and when I decided to go full NC (abandonment), he commenced a several months' binge of drinking and self-destruction.

About three months ago, he contacted me in what I felt was a strange and bullying fashion - lots of victim-playing and blame-shifting and "I will only engage in this discussion via phone or FaceTime."  I deleted forever.  But then he sent the same email to my business address.  Also deleted.  Then he called, which threw me off because I thought I'd blocked him, but what I had actually done was input the wrong phone number, which didn't block him from calling me at all.  I ignored the first call.  He said he had some W-2's that were sent to the address that we shared with one another.  I contacted my employers and had new ones sent.  So I called him back to very briefly let him know "you can destroy those W-2's.  Thank you." and hung up.  He called right back to talk.  I listened to what he had to say and didn't say much on my own behalf.  That lead to further communication and the airing of grievances, the feats of strength, the feast... .it was basically Festivus for a few weeks.  I was still holding up my wall with him, thinking that I was protecting myself, but upon the reflection that I'd learned but somehow forgotten during the months that I was away from him, I recognized that I was feeding into his sh*t again and not practicing the empathy and validation that he so very much needed.  So I stopped that behavior right away, and have been utilizing all the validation and empathy that I know, even as he sits there and tells me how much I've hurt him and how it's my fault that his life is the way it is right now. But, I don't let it bother me like I once did. I don't allow myself to be dragged into his reality as I once did.  And because of that, I am able to remain objective to his thoughts and feelings and I have become someone that he can turn to when dysregulated and help him come back to his center.  Everything is still all my fault, and that's okay with me... .because I know that it's not and I won't give in to that idea.  I simply allow him the time and opportunity to vent and validate his feelings, don't coddle him or judge him and direct the flow of conversation with an empathetic ear.  What starts out as blaming me, usually leads to him opening up about what is really bothering him and I help him work through it without getting caught up in his emotional state.  I don't act as therapist in that sense and am careful not to give advice.  I simply listen, validate and ask questions that help him through his feelings.  I know that he is not currently in therapy, so I do still tread lightly on that topic, but I do say things like, "when I see my therapist, we discuss [this]."  I don't explicity suggest or tell him what he should do in regard to his own mental health, I simply listen, validate and empathize. He does actually apologize for the past and also any time he blows up at me or becomes dysregulated, which is the opposite of how it was when we were together.  Whether he means it or not doesn't really matter anymore.  He makes the effort and that matters.  It's important to me and it's important to him.  He still is unable to validate, but I don't expect him to be able to learn that without some professional help, so I don't expect it from him anyway. 

I am not perfect and still make some mistakes, but he and I have come to a good place and I actually feel good about myself for being able to help him in any way.  He is not a monster after all, he is a frightened child in need of support.  Of course I still love him and care very much for him, but we both know that I cannot offer him what he needs in a life partner, so we keep things platonic (even though he does have his moments of love bombing from time to time and he still feels the need to tell me how much he misses me and wishes that we could be together.  We deal with these moments as they come and I uphold my boundaries so as not to give any false messages to him.)

It's not always easy, and it's not recommended for everyone.  My ex happens to be a very quiet, waif-ish borderline without violent or suicidal tendencies.  This type of relationship won't be possible for everyone, and I don't recommend anything, but it works for me for now and it has greatly helped me with my own suffering in regard to our past with one another.

My relationship with him wasn't positive for either one of us, but our current situation is good for both of us.  It is possible.

[patientandclear]

Maternal, now that you're able to empathize with his stance and to validate, why do you feel you cannot offer him what he needs in a partner?  Sounds like you're actually a pretty good candidate. Is the problem possibly that he cannot offer YOU what YOU need in a life partner?

It sounds as though you two are functioning as de facto platonic partners.  I did something similar for quite a while.  I found it got harder when the significance of that role was tested (in my case, when my ex moved to another city and began seeing another woman despite the wonderful bond and friendship we'd built).

Listening is (nearly) always good.  Making room for someone else's perspective is good.  I certainly get why he likes this arrangement.  Less clear what is happening for you here, from what you wrote, except the desire to help him.

In my case ... .I felt strongly connected to him and didn't know what to do with those feelings, so tried to make a new type of relationship in which that bond could work, since he was ruling out a romantic relationship.  It felt good to be able to be positively connected to someone who had meant so much to me and whom I'd lost so brutally.  It felt like it was healing the trauma.

Ultimately it didn't.  I did get to know him better.  We did have a meaningful relationship.  But he continued to leave me in new and painful ways.  And the trauma repeated, rather than healed.  You may have a different path--I hope so.  Good luck!

[maternal]

I feel what you're saying.  I do sometimes worry how this will evolve and if it will end up hurting me more later on down the road.  I appreciate your concern.

He is triggered by my career and success, and this means that he cannot offer me what I need in a life partner.  While he spoke of us being a power couple, he also held resentment about the career that I was building and the success that I was working toward.  For me, those two worlds do not add up.  We can't possibly be a power couple if I don't have a certain amount of success of my own to be able to join with his  successes.  And because he is unable to share the same view on our individual success, he cannot offer me what I need.  Even though he ended the relationship, I know that we can't be a couple ever again.

As we are currently in different cities, though not too far apart, it is somewhat easy for me to remain detached.  I'm not sure that this arrangement could work for me were we in the same city.  Most of our conversation is via text, email or phone, so it is not at all the same as sitting in front of the man and remaining cool, calm and collected.  It is not a constant contact, it's not even an every day thing.  For now, this works.  When it stops working, so do I.

I don't need anything from him at this point.  I don't really want anything, really.  For me to be able to be able to talk with him in a positive manner has actually helped me greatly.  I don't try to rescue him and I am firm with my boundaries.  I don't allow verbal abuse and I won't tolerate the emotional manipulation that I once did.  When he tries to test me, and he does... .as he always has, I call him on it right away.  I can see how it can be construed as a form of rescuing just by the fact of being available to him, and maybe it looks like enabling, I don't really know.  What I do know is that this is what it is for right now.  As long as I am able to remain emotionally detached, I am okay.  As he will likely never be "okay" this arrangement works for the present time, and my no longer work in the future.  That remains to be seen.

I'm sure that eventually, he'll find someone else to talk to, and I'm okay with that.  It's probably better that way.  If he doesn't, and I find myself in a new relationship - which I know will hurt him and we've already discussed that maybe we shouldn't go down this path because of said hurting - I will have to navigate that situation very carefully.

In the end, I don't have to be hardcore No Contact in order to heal from the pain I allowed him to give me in the past.  This may or may not be the best way to go about things, but it works for us right now. I cannot guarantee that it remains this way, and that is a bridge that I will cross when I come to it.   

[Indiegrl]

Maternal,

I just need to say that this post of yours blew me away, this is strong stuff for my mind! I guess mind-blowing is the word I´m looking for 

Or, How I Learned To Be A Friend To My dBPDex And Took Myself Out of My Own Suffering.

It has required a lot of introspection, meditation, therapy and mindfulness on my part.  It needs strength that I lacked when I was with him and it has helped me heal my own codependent ways.  It requires that I not take his sh*t personally, and allow him to express his feelings in the only way that he knows how.  And most of all, it requires heaps upon heaps of EMPATHY and VALIDATION, both of which I lacked during our relationship.

What a summary. This is the way to do it. Love the honesty of the way you state this. The simple truth, sort of.

There was also plenty of love, passion, sharing, laughs, growth and happiness.  In the end, I lost myself in him and I also hurt him in ways that I hadn't realized even though he was telling me that I was.  I was so lost in my own pain and my own hurt from his behavior that I left no room for his pain that he was so strongly trying to communicate to me.

 

My ex turned more and more desperate, in the last months screaming towards me that I had to listen, why didn´t I acknowledge how hurt he was?

Your post made me see this perspective more clearly: Even though I "was right" and he "was wrong", that doesn´t mean he can´t be hurt. I still find this part very difficult, but I do think it will be easier to accept as the times go by. I want to thank you for making this point in your post:

I blocked out his hurt, because my own was that much more important to me.  All that did was end up making him hurt worse.  I wasn't listening to him when he told me that what I was doing was hurting him.  Basically, he felt that I was making my career more important in my life than him.  In my head, I was working for both of us.  My success was his.  But he was unable to see it that way and took my focus on my career as an affront to him and what we had planned to build together.  In my head, I was doing the "right" thing by building a strong career and working in places that would advance said career.  In my head, I was building FOR us, but in his head, I was only building for me.  He sacrificed his career growth, in the same field, in order to gain certain things that would put US in a position to start a family and grow as a couple.  Where I saw my career focus as good for both of us, he saw his way as the right way to do it.  Basically, we were heading the same direction with different maps

.  

What a beautiful and enlightening picture! Different maps! I totally agree.

For him, his way was the only way, and for me, my way was the best way.  Both ways would eventually lead to the same outcome, but they were vastly different in execution.  My career growth became a trigger for him because to him, it meant that he wasn't as important to me as that.  It made him feel as though he was second place in my life, even though I never meant to or intended to hurt him by having career goals and working hard to better myself in my craft.  And when he told me that he was hurt, I didn't listen, because I was working to better my career for both of us, so he must be wrong.  

Ohhh, this is the crucial part, this one is truly tricky. And I can totally relate to your logic. Because you are talking about your intention, right? Your inner truth being: I do this for US, not for ME. Right?

I lacked empathy.  It never mattered that I felt that I was doing the right thing, what mattered is that I wasn't listening to him when he told me that his feelings were hurt.  He felt as though he put in a lot of work toward building a better life for us and that I had ignored that and did what I wanted to do (even though I felt as though I was doing good for both of us by building a strong career where he had sacrificed his).  And of course, his way of dealing with his pain was cheating criticizing and blaming me intensely.  And he felt it justified to do so since I was hurting him so much.

Did you lack empathy? Or did you just not listen because you were falsely accused? I´m being the devils advocate here now... .I find this one tricky, as I´ve said already... .Notice the changed words - the underlined words is my version of your story.

and have been utilizing all the validation and empathy that I know, even as he sits there and tells me how much I've hurt him and how it's my fault that his life is the way it is right now. But, I don't let it bother me like I once did. I don't allow myself to be dragged into his reality as I once did.  And because of that, I am able to remain objective to his thoughts and feelings and I have become someone that he can turn to when dysregulated and help him come back to his center.  Everything is still all my fault, and that's okay with me... .because I know that it's not and I won't give in to that idea.

 

This piece amazes me. Wow. It can be done, you do it! I did not cope at all being told all is my fault. I do not want to. But with the knowledge, with the distance - empathy and validation like that is another ballgame, I guess.

I simply allow him the time and opportunity to vent and validate his feelings, don't coddle him or judge him and direct the flow of conversation with an empathetic ear.  What starts out as blaming me, usually leads to him opening up about what is really bothering him and I help him work through it without getting caught up in his emotional state.  I don't act as therapist in that sense and am careful not to give advice.  I simply listen, validate and ask questions that help him through his feelings.  I know that he is not currently in therapy, so I do still tread lightly on that topic, but I do say things like, "when I see my therapist, we discuss [this]."  I don't explicity suggest or tell him what he should do in regard to his own mental health, I simply listen, validate and empathize. He does actually apologize for the past and also any time he blows up at me or becomes dysregulated, which is the opposite of how it was when we were together.  Whether he means it or not doesn't really matter anymore.  He makes the effort and that matters.  It's important to me and it's important to him.  He still is unable to validate, but I don't expect him to be able to learn that without some professional help, so I don't expect it from him anyway. 

This speaks volumes, I think. Ka-ching! 

I am not perfect and still make some mistakes, but he and I have come to a good place and I actually feel good about myself for being able to help him in any way.  He is not a monster after all, he is a frightened child in need of support.  Of course I still love him and care very much for him, but we both know that I cannot offer him what he needs in a life partner, so we keep things platonic (even though he does have his moments of love bombing from time to time and he still feels the need to tell me how much he misses me and wishes that we could be together.  We deal with these moments as they come and I uphold my boundaries so as not to give any false messages to him.)

He is a frightened child in need of support - and I cannot offer him what he needs in a life partner. Wow... .this transformation of my own thoughts concerning my ex - from the most brilliant MAN, fulfilling my dreams and being able to do anything in the world (yes, he wasn´t the only one idealizing! ) till my thoughts of him now... .he is a child, an innocent and angry and distressed child, who basically needs to be held, to be soothed and reassured. Over and over again... .That is the role of a mother... .not a partner. I need to stand my own ground.

It's not always easy, and it's not recommended for everyone.  My ex happens to be a very quiet, waif-ish borderline without violent or suicidal tendencies.  This type of relationship won't be possible for everyone, and I don't recommend anything, but it works for me for now and it has greatly helped me with my own suffering in regard to our past with one another.

My relationship with him wasn't positive for either one of us, but our current situation is good for both of us.  It is possible.

I can see that. I can feel a part of me wanting to go there already... .   Too early... .got to look more into my own codependency. I totally haven't understood that earlier on, so I have some work to do.

Thank you, maternal, for an excellent post that made a difference in my own healing.