Courthouse settlement / support

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

A settlement for division of assets has been reached.    

In the court house , (close to the steps) . Days before was preparation for the the trial.  My mind and body was consumed with last minute documents. Inteovertedly focused.

Meeting with L. Prep for cross examination. L asking me needless last minute life history . Anything and everything to use in our defense was his point.   Then in the middle of it he asked ,  " so what do you think is fair to give to h" . My blunder, I said what was in our first offer... 60%.  Then L went on to say that h should not get anything , or far lower percentage of what was my family's business. Blah blah.

But with him asking,  I felt there was going to be an attempt to settle before trial.  And , ForeverDad, having a settlement on the courthouse house steps... .I prepared.

I went over numbers again and again.

For the trial, the divorce master, listens to all testimony. Then he has 30 days to make a recommendation. Then twenty days for objections , then briefings by L's. Then to the judge to make a final decision. ( which afterwards, the divorce master said judge is so back logged, six months... .that's after he receives the briefs )

So when they asked for 62% and my L subtracted some credits to me, the overall amount was in the lower range that I myself was going to say yes too. Whoa.

A for the marital house , I stay , pay h off his share in equity. Earlier,  I had agreed on their value of the house , but then h decided to get a new appraisal.  (lots of photos taken inside for h to see... .i try not to let that bother me).

I in turn had to get an updated appraisal.  

Take the middle value of the two ... .and it came in lower than the price h had.

At the trial time, h wanted his original price... .I thought for a minute and said no. The middle of the two appraisals.   h and his L agreed. I was in shock... .did I just make a say something that got agreed on.

All the legal formalities went on afterwards.  :)ivorce will be final very soon, after almost three years.

My mind was numb afterwards . It takes me time for it to all absorb .

feelings  of happiness and peace creeping in.

Then ... .the support hearing... .which came later.  My L, exh L, going after each other on every detail of tax returns . H saying I have the money, but it is he who has to pay for S's auto insurance (that fiasco in one of my past posts). H is recently unemployed recently due to his health reasons.  But when asked for some documentation on that, he had none.  Asked what his income should be imputed as ,  h said ... .just like hers (me)  Projections , and lies , entitlements .

H had his wanting his modification for support back in 2013. (So anything would be retroactive to then. ) H had also resubmitted it six months ago so support dept said that is what they will go on for now.  But that date is pending.  

So it's a week or two to get a calculation on who owes what to whom and another twenty days after to object (and then it would go before the judge.

Whatever the outcome... .I will be Ms. very  soon

[whirlpoollife]

A settlement for division of assets has been reached.    

In the court house , (close to the steps) . Days before was preparation for the the trial.  My mind and body was consumed with last minute documents. Inteovertedly focused.

Meeting with L. Prep for cross examination. L asking me needless last minute life history . Anything and everything to use in our defense was his point.   Then in the middle of it he asked ,  " so what do you think is fair to give to h" . My blunder, I said what was in our first offer... 60%.  Then L went on to say that h should not get anything , or far lower percentage of what was my family's business. Blah blah.

But with him asking,  I felt there was going to be an attempt to settle before trial.  And , ForeverDad, having a settlement on the courthouse house steps... .I prepared.

I went over numbers again and again.

For the trial, the divorce master, listens to all testimony. Then he has 30 days to make a recommendation. Then twenty days for objections , then briefings by L's. Then to the judge to make a final decision. ( which afterwards, the divorce master said judge is so back logged, six months... .that's after he receives the briefs )

So when they asked for 62% and my L subtracted some credits to me, the overall amount was in the lower range that I myself was going to say yes too. Whoa.

A for the marital house , I stay , pay h off his share in equity. Earlier,  I had agreed on their value of the house , but then h decided to get a new appraisal.  (lots of photos taken inside for h to see... .i try not to let that bother me).

I in turn had to get an updated appraisal.  

Take the middle value of the two ... .and it came in lower than the price h had.

At the trial time, h wanted his original price... .I thought for a minute and said no. The middle of the two appraisals.   h and his L agreed. I was in shock... .did I just make a say something that got agreed on.

All the legal formalities went on afterwards.  :)ivorce will be final very soon, after almost three years.

My mind was numb afterwards . It takes me time for it to all absorb .

feelings  of happiness and peace creeping in.

Then ... .the support hearing... .which came later.  My L, exh L, going after each other on every detail of tax returns . H saying I have the money, but it is he who has to pay for S's auto insurance (that fiasco in one of my past posts). H is recently unemployed recently due to his health reasons.  But when asked for some documentation on that, he had none.  Asked what his income should be imputed as ,  h said ... .just like hers (me)  Projections , and lies , entitlements .

H had his wanting his modification for support back in 2013. (So anything would be retroactive to then. ) H had also resubmitted it six months ago so support dept said that is what they will go on for now.  But that date is pending.  

So it's a week or two to get a calculation on who owes what to whom and another twenty days after to object (and then it would go before the judge.

Whatever the outcome... .I will be Ms. very  soon

[livednlearned]

It does feel good to have the paper in hand, for the divorce to be legal. I understand the numb feeling you describe. I felt the same way after the judge awarded me full custody. And again when he terminated visitation. My L was excited for me, and I was in shock. It felt hard to celebrate what was the lesser of two evils in my mind. Mentally ill father in S13's life, or no father at all. But legally, a victory. But an expensive victory.

It takes time to absorb these things, like you say.

Anyway, congratulations soon-to-be Ms. whirlpoollife 

Great that you stay in the home! That's what you wanted, and it worked out. That's a big one.

H saying I have the money, but it is he who has to pay for S's auto insurance

That sums up the mental illness in so many ways.

Six months for the modification of support -- that will not be a lot of money, will it?

And sorry for not being able to parse this out in your post, but it sounds like he got part of the inheritance? But on the low end?

[whirlpoollife]

My L was excited for me, and I was in shock. It felt hard to celebrate what was the lesser of two evils in my mind.

You put it in words for me.

And sorry for not being able to parse this out in your post, but it sounds like he got part of the inheritance? But on the low end?

Yes, My L had a valuation done on the family business. There was an increase in value in the marriage.

It was divided amongst many in the family and my share got narrowed down and he got a piece . I looked at it as a retirement account that had to get divided. Even though it wasn't it helped me take the emotions of it out.

The support depends  on what  date the support dept uses.  If they find record of it. The capital gain I had was from 2013. That's the one h is after.mflr spousal support.  But he did nothing.  I do remember the support saying that if they go back that far, then anyone can come in , file for modification to a retroactive date and collect at a later time.  I had two letters from my attorney to h's attorney asking them what is it they want from me for settlement.  And with no reply.  Those dated beginning of last year. I gave em to support dept during the  recent conference hearing. 

The six months would be back support, spousal and child. Future support is child only.

If child support to me  gets reduced or not at all for him, or even if I pay him , I hope that would tame him down to not try to get more custody time.

If he has to pay child support , I anticipate an objection .

[whirlpoollife]

Divorce is final. 

Support decision took longer than one or two weeks.

Retroactive to seven months ago, not 19 months that xh wanted.  Xh owes child support and 4k in arrarages . In the meantime he had another notice for his drivers license to be suspended but it got stayed on account his L said we are waiting on the outcome of support hearing  in which xh might have his arrarages  down to zero. 

Definitely not what xh was anticipating.  He and his L , were pushing for a lump sum spousal support payment to xh, and arrarages erased.

So divorce might be final but I anticiapte for him to appeal the child support.

[maxen]

congratulations whirlpool  

My mind was numb afterwards . It takes me time for it to all absorb

when my xw agreed to my terms, i collapsed inside. i couldn't register it for about a week. my friends were grinning from ear to ear and i couldn't really share their feeling.

[livednlearned]

Dealing with conflict in family court can feel a lot like managing an ongoing medical condition. 

You hope it's gone away, but you also know it's probably going to come back.

[whirlpoollife]

You hope it's gone away, but you also know it's probably going to come back.

It did. Xh filed for a de novo hearing. It's a short hearing ( suppose to be ten minutes from each side)in front of a judge. All what was done with the support order will be erased and then started  over with the new judges ruling. 

From the support hearing at the support  dept it took weeks for them to come up with an outcome .it got discussed with a seperate attorney for the support dept, and the  final got signed off by a judge.

But at this de novo hearng the different judge does not look at anything from the past orders or how it was decided.

Also smear campaign continues... .three year ago I filed, divorce is final, new rumor  is that I paid off everyone to get what I want. The appraisers, both his and mine, to get the marital home value lowered , the support dept , so I don't pay him support, etc.   Much more, he doesn't stop.

[GaGrl]

So just because he files doesn't mean it happens, right? What does your L say?

[ForeverDad]

A trial de novo is usually ordered by an appellate court when the original trial failed to make a determination in a manner dictated by law.

Was there any deficiency in the case's decisions, any basis to re-try?  Or is this, "The law gives me one more way to sabotage her and so I will"?

This is different from an appeal apparently.  In an appeal you are strictly limited to the information that had been presented to the court.  This is like a "do over".  Maybe he will manage to avoid some mistakes he made before, but you have the same opportunity to drop some information that didn't help you and add anything new that might help you.

Something about this process just doesn't feel right, if you don't like an outcome then file for De Novo in hopes for something better?  Are the any requirements?  What was the prior 3 years all about?  Presumably this won't take 3 years?

I could be wrong, but likely the judge will be unofficially 'aware' of the protracted conflict in this case and won't be totally bamboozled?

[livednlearned]

Oof, sorry to hear this whirlpool. My ex works this way too. A lot of the stuff he filed my L said made no sense. Still, I would have to go to court to have it struck. That's what led to the gatekeeping order. And then ex fired things up with the appellate court. Everything got dismissed, but I had to have it dismissed, and that cost money not to mention the frayed nerves.

Usually there is an order to show cause with regular motions. Is that part of the way things work where you live? Orders to show cause are supposed to justify the legal filing so that the court doesn't become cluttered with sour grape actions like what your ex is filing.

[whirlpoollife]

Gagirl , I looked at orders again, and they says " filed an appeal" on both ( one for spousal support for him, and to not pay child support on other) and a date is given for all to appear in court.  So in this case filed means it going to happen .  

FD, even though the orders say " appeal" , his L , in his letter to the support dept, he says he demands a de novo hearing and then was granted the appeal and date.

The support dept did not use their original file date of Aug 2013 , and instead used xh's  second file date of Sept 2014. They used the latter because  they said xh did not proceed with getting a hearing date the first time in a reasonable time. ( this is where he filed but did not have a date so it didn't happen).

2013 is where I have the one  time capital gain. So my income is much more for that year. That's what they want.

Good point on what was the three years all about... .xh waiting for my family's property to sell so he can get a part of it, which he did.  I hope the judge can see that.

Also, xh wants me to pay him because he feels very entitled that I support him and the law gave him an opening for appealing the order from the support dept.

[whirlpoollife]

Lnl , I will ask my L about the gatekeeping order. Yes there is a pattern there.

i don't know if I can get this dismissed as my L could not understand why the support dept did not use xh's first filing date for modification  of support.  He sometimes argues for the other side, maybe he has other clients that are similar to xh. So maybe that is the cause for appealing.

But just knowing that it's a possibility that it can get dismissed , or the judge might see the pattern of xh,

is nice to know.

[livednlearned]

Lnl , I will ask my L about the gatekeeping order. Yes there is a pattern there.

Unfortunately, this is (to my knowledge) not something a lawyer can request. It's an order that the judge issues. When court starts to see someone filing frivolous law suits, this is how they create a barrier. It didn't do that much for me, to be honest. My ex continued to file, and the clerks didn't stop them from coming through. All that happened is I was pretty much guaranteed my legal fees would be sanctioned so N/BPDx had to pay. Which required me to file a motion to collect those fees.

It's unbelievable how much a disordered person can get away with in court. My ex all but gave the middle finger to the judge, and nothing happened. 

So is this novo hearing an official appeal that will be heard by an appellate judge?

[ForeverDad]

I would expect that any portions of your case that settled and weren't the result of a judicial or agency decision ought to remain untouched.  Unless, is the entire case wiped clean?

So basically this is all about money, your money, right?  Have you ever been able to find out where he has squirreled away his money?  Maybe you can oppose his claim for more until he produces all his financial records during that time too.

[livednlearned]

He has only filed for the de novo hearing, is that right? Has the court approved it, or is there a hearing to decide whether to approve it?

[whirlpoollife]

This is only for child support and spousal support he wants. The rest of economic settlement is finished.

Custody is never finished.

Part of the divorce settlement was no alimony for either and each pay their own medical.  That should stay the same.

I pay medical for the kids since start of the year.

He wants spousal support from the year 2013 and part of 2014. ( I filed for divorce in 2012) He did get a reduction in all support for the last four months of last year and it got taken off his arrages, about 1600.

The order from support dept is an order to appear in actual court before a judge and its approved by a judge and support dept.  Same judge who let his license get reinstated and second time stayed.

I'm not sure which judge we go before for this time.

Once the modification of support was complete and signed by a judge , the other party has twenty days to appeal. Reminder , he is the one who wanted the modification from the first order.

My L said he will try to not have it de novo and to have more time to be heard. 

Yes I need to see his finacial records. Not just mine shown . Good to add to my notes.

He has been out of work too

[GaGrl]

Was his income ever imputed?

[ForeverDad]

Was his income ever imputed?

Precisely what I was thinking.  Since it is so easy for someone who claims "I can't find work" to sabotage any and all job searches, imputing income is a recognized alternative.  Clearly he works when he wants to and during a divorce he doesn't want to work.  I don't know whether he's BPD, NPD or whatever combination, but I'm leaning toward Antisocial PD - con man, user, etc.

[whirlpoollife]

Looking at the calcualtions , yes it looks like they imputed it. I hope he try's to fight that. Because my measly income got imputed too a couple years ago and I never fought it.

Yep he is definitely sociopathic Npd, con man.  Entitlement PD.  Bad to the bone . It was there all along I just I was  so fooled by my niceness.

We shall see if the judge goes back two years or goes with current order date. It s a few weeks away.

[whirlpoollife]

The hearing will not be de novo ( ten minutes in front of judge) more time will be given to state our case. 

So the date has been changed further future away.