Have any of you started divorce process but still had to live together? ~

[michel71]

Neither of us can move out for financial reasons. And it is my house (separate property) so my lawyer advises me not to move out of my own home anyway. My uBPDw is still in school. I am working on paying down debts to free up some cash for the inevitable alimony I will have to pay her for approx 1.5 years. I haven't filed yet. Trying to hedge my bets to buy a little extra time for my benefit ( i.e alimony won't start right away thus giving me more time to pay things off) and for hers ( waiting a few more months will make it so by the time the divorce is final... .about 9-11 months, she will be out of school, working and can afford health insurance. She has no money of her own. I am the breadwinner. Married a little over 2 years.

I am descent and wouldn't throw her out on the street but its difficult because you can imagine how I need my alone time. I wish my house was free of her and her kid but that is not going to happen by magic.

If you had to live together for a while, how did you cope? How did you get through it without killing each other?

[Turkish]

I lived with mine for 4 months until she could move out. Though horrible on an emotional level, I acted bland, boring, and emotionless. I ate most meals seperately. After we got the kids to bed, I retreated, and she did to do face time with her bf. Or, she often went out to spend time with him. I viewed it as concluding business on a certain level (custody issues). Was it easy? No. It was the worst thing I'd been through in my life. I'd even trade growing up with my BPD mother again to never go through it again. Was it possible? Yes.

[gomez_addams]

My stbx uBPDw will be coming back home in a little over a week.  We'll be seeing a mediator to draw up a divorce settlement.  I can see the mediation not working, which is fine.  It is what it is.  I'm filing for divorce either way.

I figure living together will be horrible.  I'm basing that on the past two years, but I'm sure that with the dynamic of the divorce and her sense of abandonment and rejection, it will be nearly intolerable.  Don't like to rack up debt, but if things get unbearable, I can take a 2-3 night vacation across town in a hotel.

We'll see how it goes.

[getting_better]

We'll be seeing a mediator to draw up a divorce settlement.  I can see the mediation not working, which is fine.  It is what it is.  I'm filing for divorce either way.

I envy you that your pwBPD is willing to see a mediator.  My dPBDw is hell-bent on retaining an attorney and answering my divorce petition with allegations of 20+ years of psychological abuse.  She's pulling out all the stops.  I moved out 11 months ago and filed for divorce 2 weeks ago.  Hope for my marriage has been replaced by hope for my own sanity and serenity.  Hang in there, my friend. 

[gomez_addams]

We'll be seeing a mediator to draw up a divorce settlement.  I can see the mediation not working, which is fine.  It is what it is.  I'm filing for divorce either way.

I envy you that your pwBPD is willing to see a mediator.  My dPBDw is hell-bent on retaining an attorney and answering my divorce petition with allegations of 20+ years of psychological abuse.  She's pulling out all the stops.  I moved out 11 months ago and filed for divorce 2 weeks ago.  Hope for my marriage has been replaced by hope for my own sanity and serenity.  Hang in there, my friend. 

She requested the mediator, but I believe that might have been after speaking to a lawyer.  She has a bachelor's degree, and can work but chooses not to.  The marriage hasn't hit the 2.5 year mark yet, and I think she's hoping to mediate a larger settlement than the court would give her.  Or use mediation as a soap box.  Or use mediation like marriage counseling to convince me to not divorce.  Or perhaps I should stop trying to figure out what she's thinking.

I have a low, medium, and high number.  I'll aim for low, feign resistance signing the medium, and probably sign the high with a condition that she gets the money within 30 days of leaving the house for good.

$1 over the high number and I'll file on my own.  The court won't come near it.

Good luck to you, my friend.

Gomez

[scraps66]

I did it, for about a year.  It is bad and you have to make sure you don't get booted from the house by court order.  Happened to me too.

The one thing you might not have thought about is stalling.  With you both living together the bp make take that as a sign that the divorce won't happen.  Denial on the part of the bp.

This also happened to me.  the living together was at the advice of my first attorney.  for financial reasons.  He basically told me to ride it out as long as possible.  That was also a mistake.  So as I was sitting idle, ex was plotting and she eventually won exclusive possesson... .of the house she picked out but was bought with all my money. 

Also consider what will be done with the house.  we were married 47 months (53 month divorce) and if ex's name was on the mortgage, I fear the court may have given her the house. 

[ForeverDad]

I have a low, medium, and high number.  I'll aim for low, feign resistance signing the medium, and probably sign the high with a condition that she gets the money within 30 days of leaving the house for good.

Depending on your location and court rules, be aware that anything signed outside of court and not yet filed as a 'court order' might be denied later and just end up as nothing - or even more demands added onto it.  Find out beforehand if any settlement can be scuttled unilaterally.  If that's possible then she could be using it as (1) a way to create endless negative contact, (2) yet another way to yank your chain, (3) make the marriage longer in case she is getting support or benefits from you, (4) the first step of squeezing concessions from you or (5) finding out what your strategy is.

Mediation early in the case often fails, the stbEx is simply too entitled and still feels the controller.  Yes, most cases, even ours, do settle but often it is late in the case and virtually at the last minute "on the court house steps".  My case took nearly two years because mine was a medium length marriage of over 15 years, we had a child, the temporary order was very favorable to her and so she felt every incentive to Delay, Deny and Obstruct.  Without children and with a brief marriage there are fewer excuses to delay - so keep delays to a bare minimum.

[gomez_addams]

The one thing you might not have thought about is stalling.  With you both living together the bp make take that as a sign that the divorce won't happen.  :)enial on the part of the bp.

I'm thinking the separate checking accounts that will be enforced within 48 hours of her returning (or possibly before she returns) will provide her some incentive.  I'm going to cover living expenses.  She doesn't need money for rent, electric, insurance, groceries, etc... . I'm hoping the knowledge that signing a little piece of paper brings a large windfall will provide some incentive to get it over with.

Of course, she's not rational, so that might not work.  Plan B = the place we rent is month to month.  I'll give her X number of weeks notice that I'm getting out of the month-to-month rent to downsize.

Of course, this could all back-fire, but I'm meeting with my L this week to discuss.

This also happened to me.  the living together was at the advice of my first attorney.  for financial reasons.  He basically told me to ride it out as long as possible.  That was also a mistake.  So as I was sitting idle, ex was plotting and she eventually won exclusive possesson... .of the house she picked out but was bought with all my money.  

Also consider what will be done with the house.  we were married 47 months (53 month divorce) and if ex's name was on the mortgage, I fear the court may have given her the house.  

We rent.  So that's less of a worry.

I'm slated to take an 80% pay cut next year.  If I can't get her to settle prior, I'm hoping she'll try to get to the alimony phase prior to my large pay cut.  Of course, a 30-month marriage won't give her much alimony, I hope.

Gomez

[ForeverDad]

Most cases end in settlement and so the court may never make a decision, yet the laws do shape the settlements to some extent.  Each state and court is different.  I believe alimony is generally never more than half the length of the marriage and often quite less.  In my case we settled but we used a local "2 months for every year" pattern (1/6) for my 15+ year marriage.

As most here have written she ought to have almost not expectation of alimony.  However, often during a divorce the higher income spouse is ordered to pay Spousal Support during the divorce process.  That is an incentive for your spouse to look for ways to delay.  And that is incentive for you to get her income imputed if she's not currently working.

Yes, there's benefit to offer to pay a lump sum at the start in hopes you can skip to the final decree.  It might work.  If it does, be happy.  But that offer - and payment - is Leverage.  Don't 'gift away' your Leverage until the agreement is Locked In with the court.  Believe me, your spouse will find ways to add extra costs to it.

Since you don't have a long term lease, I'd make plans to leave sooner rather than later.

And beware... .(1) Divorce is a time of fragile truces, if she has contemplated or threatened making allegations then protect yourself legally.  I recorded myself so that I could prove I was not the one misbehaving.  (2) Some spouses, seeing the writing on the wall, have managed to get themselves pregnant, "Oops, I forgot" or "It must have failed".  You have to be in charge of birth control.  This is not a time to risk becoming a parent with Long Term Obligations and Forever Complications.

[Panda39]

Hi Michel71,

I was not married to someone with BPD but to an alcoholic. (I'm currently in a relationship with someone who has an uBPDxw) So things were probably a little different for me.  Neither of us could leave our townhouse until it was sold and unfortunately for us this was during the "housing bubble" mess. 

I asked for a divorce in April, filed in May and was divorced 3 months later in August.  Unfortunately, the townhouse didn't go under contract until September it was a "short sale" that took 6 months so we had to live together until March of the next year... .almost a year from start to finish.  It was a huge lesson in patience.  Luckily my ex worked nights and I worked days so we only crossed paths briefly in the evening.  Friday evenings to Sunday evenings were the worst unfortunately that's when the ex's drinking became heaviest and he became most argumentative.  I did my best to be "busy"... .long walks, the library, the grocery store, movies, out with friends... .I was a moving target. 

All this extra time also allowed me to plan and gradually do things I needed to in order to be on my way as smoothly as possible. I did my own divorce paperwork/filing (uncontested), I fixed things/painted in the house for sale,  I bought a car, I looked at apartments, I figured out what changes I would need to make to my insurance, I separated bank accounts, I hid my valuables in a locked file cabinet at work, checked out movers and packed as much as I could in advance.

All I can say was I was single minded about doing whatever I had to do to get out in the best circumstances I could, I kept planning, I kept doing and I kept moving.

Now with a pwBPD you are most likely going to have much more drama than I experienced.

[gomez_addams]

And beware... .(1) Divorce is a time of fragile truces, if she has contemplated or threatened making allegations then protect yourself legally.  I recorded myself so that I could prove I was not the one misbehaving.  (2) Some spouses, seeing the writing on the wall, have managed to get themselves pregnant, "Oops, I forgot" or "It must have failed".  You have to be in charge of birth control.  This is not a time to risk becoming a parent with Long Term Obligations and Forever Complications.

All good advice.

1. Purchasing a voice recorder tomorrow.

2. Not. Having. Sex. Period.  Will not bring a child into this world with that woman.  Period.

Gomez

[ForeverDad]

I recorded myself so that I could prove I was not the one misbehaving.

Well, officially true.  But they sure contained a lot of misbehaving - just not me.  For a long time the court wasn't interested in who did what to whom, I think they saw it all as "he-said she-said" to be largely ignored.  It was only when the conflict continued for years that they listened a little closer.

However, having proof of her threats, rants and rages did help me defend myself when she made allegations against me.  There was a particularly bad day when she was threatening that I called 911 for emergency responders.  She had hung up my call and while the police were on the way they called back and asked only if either of us were intoxicated or on drugs.  Police talked to both of us separately.  She later said they told her about seeking DV resources.  Me, the one who called?  One of the officers asked me hand our sobbing preschooler over to his mother and step away.  Well, he started shrieking and clung even tighter to me.  What kid won't go to his mother?  So I walked over to the officer and shrugged.  He looked at me for a long moment, said "work it out" and they left.  When I managed to get the recording off the device a few days later, I made a police report with it and she was eventually arrested for Threat of DV.  (Case was dismissed of course, judge said without a weapon in her hands then her death threats weren't 'imminent' threats per case law and found her Not Guilty.  By then we were separated.)  It would have been me in jail for the weekend, except for my son's reactions and my recording/documentation.

My point is that you can do all the right things and still have a sticky situation go against you, largely due to your gender and partly because you're not the one so emotionally convincing and posing as targeted victim.  Fortunately, my son 'saved' me that day.  When I later got a divorce lawyer he told me that standard policy is for someone to be arrested on a domestic dispute call.  I'll never know for sure how bad that day could have been, but my son and my recordings were the very best insurance.

[livednlearned]

I am working on paying down debts to free up some cash for the inevitable alimony I will have to pay her for approx 1.5 years.

You were married 2 years and have to pay alimony for 1.5 years?   Is that from a lawyer? Maybe it's different where you live, but that seems like a lot of alimony for what is considered by many courts to be a short marriage.

Also, it might be worth having a recording device if it's legal to record with one-party consent (meaning, only you have to give consent, not both of you). Good to ask your L about this if you plan to do it.

It's going to be really tough, michel71. Living together even when abandonment is not triggered is tough when they have BPD. Divorce is a very real type of abandonment and is difficult even for non-disordered partners.

Sorry you're having to exit your marriage this way. A lot of us had financial issues ending the marriage, often because our spouses were impulsive or demanding about money. And then the wasteful expense of fighting things in court    Not fun.

[SES]

I've been living with my wife since last October, when I discovered she was still having her affair.  She asked for a divorce, but stayed in our house with me and our two children, and she continued seeing her affair partner.  It got quite grim at times... .

On the positive side... .staying meant that our house is being sold, something that would have taken longer if I moved out.

On the negative side, she assaulted me more than once.  She subjected me to loads of abuse and threats.  She made false allegations about me to the police three times, and once to my employer.  I was interviewed by police in the police station on one occasion.  Nothing taken any further.She made death threats. She picked up a police caution for assaulting me.

I was advised to audio record everything... .that was useful  when I was interviewed by the Police.  I wish I had started earlie... . I started a couple of months in as things deteriorated. The false allegations spanned many months back... .thus my wish I had recorded earlier.  Someone advised me to keep receipts to prove where I had gone/been.  Again, good advice... .I relied on my bank statement to show I had paid for a meal, to refute an allegation that she made that I had threatened her mother... .In fact the weekend in question I took her and our kids to dinner at a restaurant .

Expect the worst.

We are still living together... .I'm aware more might come.

It's hard going... .Talk to friends and family to keep yourself going.  :)on't leave any paperwork around, mine stole legal papers.   Change your passwords on everything... .Mine hacked pc, phone, emails, memory stick, etc.

Back up all recordings.  Mine tried to delete mine.

Stay in touch with the BPD family.

I'm thinking of you.

[whirlpoollife]

Recheck on the alimony. I think that it's there after a a long term , ten or more years , marriage. Not a short term marriage with no children of your own.

Is it guaranteed that after she finishes collage that she will have job? How long after she has her job, will she then be able to have health insurance? And then enough money to have her own place to live.

I ask because the living together can be longer than anticipated.

The house might be seperate in your name but where I live, the increase in value of your seperate property becomes marital property. And the value they use is the date of the final divorce or hearing.

So you might be needing an appraisal from the date you were married and another of current value.

I did live with xh for five months after filing. Long term marriage, two kids.  To put it short, it was hellish.

Maybe you can say this is my house and these are my rules if you stay here... .

And that alone could make her move to go live with someone else.

Easier said than doing I know.

[going places]

If you had to live together for a while, how did you cope? How did you get through it without killing each other?

it was pure hell.

For him, it was a piece of cake. He didn't care, so he came and went as he pleased, acted like nothing was wrong.

He started 'obviously' ignoring me and the youngest child (Dec-March 2013/14) by getting up and going in another room when one or both of us came in the room (this is HIS child too... .).

She left for boot camp at the end of March.

I filed April 15.

Final June 15, and July 8th I couldn't live with him one more second so I threw him out.

Got a 4,000 sq ft home on 5 acres fixed up and on the market.

He was sucking the life out of me. Depression, darkness, gaslighting, silent treatment... .it was pure torture.

It was almost like he enjoyed seeing me so low I couldn't move.

If I knew what I know now, back then?

I would have never let him come back in 2011. I wouldn't have wasted the next 3 years of my life, and I never would have let him back in the house... .

It was pure, mind bending hell.

[scraps66]

There is a proper way of leaving the house, but only after some type of custody arrangement is formalized.  Leaving without provocation - voluntarily they call it, is not what you want to do.

At least getting booted states that you did not go willingly.  Going willingly is a convenient excuse for the court to interpret as you giving up on your children.

[gomez_addams]

There is a proper way of leaving the house, but only after some type of custody arrangement is formalized.  Leaving without provocation - voluntarily they call it, is not what you want to do.

At least getting booted states that you did not go willingly.  Going willingly is a convenient excuse for the court to interpret as you giving up on your children.

uBPDw and I have no kids.  I have a feeling she won't leave, but doesn't work... .I'm going to talk to my lawyer, but any ideas on what options I might have down the road if she refuses to leave?  I mean, the divorce could take a while... .moving out might put me in a position to be paying two rents.

When she gets back, first order of business (besides mediation and the hope of a quick settlement) is getting her back to work.

Gomez

[scraps66]

getting her back to work is key and should be easier w/o kids.  but this is bp, nothing is easy.  L would be best to ask.  And you guys rent, you don't own, so there isn't a house to divvy up.

[livednlearned]

Figure out where you have leverage and use that to create boundaries with consequences if they are violated. For example, tell her she can live in the home rent free but then there is no alimony (if this is even something you are required to pay). Or she can move out now and you will pay X in support for Z months. Or, you will pay for her moving costs if she has applied for student loans by day/date. She can apply for student loans and support herself, that's why they're there, for people in her situation.

For a lot of us, it felt uncomfortable asserting boundaries and outlining consequences. There is no way to protect yourself without feeling what can be extreme amounts of discomfort. Do you have a therapist you can see while you go through this? So many of us self-sabotage and try to take the easy way, which often turns into the more expensive painful way that drags on. At some point, you have to rip the band aid off in these relationships. I ignored my therapist's advice and my lawyer's at the beginning of my divorce and that led to the eighth circle of hell. I gave my ex the marital home, and it took several years and three trips to court for him to refi the house. Why? Because: BPD. In court, he actually said to the judge, "She is trying to tell me what to do." And the judge said, "Mr. N/BPD, the court is telling you what to do." Also! My ex is an attorney. Gah!

Put together three packages that seem reasonable to you, and get people you trust to weigh in and make sure you aren't being overly reasonable. Being overly reasonable exposes you to all kinds of problems with someone who is BPD. You need to focus on a strategy that protects you so the divorce doesn't take longer than the marriage. 

[gomez_addams]

Figure out where you have leverage and use that to create boundaries with consequences if they are violated. For example, tell her she can live in the home rent free but then there is no alimony (if this is even something you are required to pay). Or she can move out now and you will pay X in support for Z months. Or, you will pay for her moving costs if she has applied for student loans by day/date. She can apply for student loans and support herself, that's why they're there, for people in her situation.

Just responded to her last e-mail.  Told her that if she wants to stay here, she's free to... .but I insist she get a job.  Once she gets here, I'll pay for all the essentials, but none of the fun stuff.

For a lot of us, it felt uncomfortable asserting boundaries and outlining consequences. There is no way to protect yourself without feeling what can be extreme amounts of discomfort. Do you have a therapist you can see while you go through this? So many of us self-sabotage and try to take the easy way, which often turns into the more expensive painful way that drags on. At some point, you have to rip the band aid off in these relationships. I ignored my therapist's advice and my lawyer's at the beginning of my divorce and that led to the eighth circle of hell. I gave my ex the marital home, and it took several years and three trips to court for him to refi the house. Why? Because: BPD. In court, he actually said to the judge, "She is trying to tell me what to do." And the judge said, "Mr. N/BPD, the court is telling you what to do." Also! My ex is an attorney. Gah!

Put together three packages that seem reasonable to you, and get people you trust to weigh in and make sure you aren't being overly reasonable. Being overly reasonable exposes you to all kinds of problems with someone who is BPD. You need to focus on a strategy that protects you so the divorce doesn't take longer than the marriage. 

Thanks for the advice.

I do have a BPD-savvy therapist, and I'll be seeing him in a little while.  Every two weeks.

Gomez

[livednlearned]

Just responded to her last e-mail.  Told her that if she wants to stay here, she's free to... .but I insist she get a job.  Once she gets here, I'll pay for all the essentials, but none of the fun stuff.

This is a good start, but with BPD, there needs to be conditions and consequences. Parents who have BPD kids will sometimes get their child to be part of the rule-making. It depends on the degree of dysregulation and disorder whether you can do this with your ex. For example, is she able to sit down with you and determine what is an acceptable level of job search? How many resumes will she send out? How long before it's decided that she isn't really putting an effort into it? What if she gets hired and then promptly fired? Someone with BPD can create a lot of drama to keep things out of focus, and you end up spending a lot of time trying to manage the drama instead of enforce the boundary.

Look for the loopholes. She will! And will exploit them. You have to be a step ahead, explaining the consequences of violating the boundary, regardless of the loopholes.

[gomez_addams]

Thanks for the advice.

She has a $300/month college loan payment.  I think splitting up the bills: she takes the loan, I take everything else -- would be a good start. 

I'll have to think about what the consequences would be... .but the loan is in her name.  If it's late because she didn't work, then it's late.  Not on my credit. 

I'll also have to speak to the lawyer about moving out, or booting her out.  Not sure on the legalities and whether it is even a good idea.

Let's just hope she bites on the settlement.  That would make everything much easier.  Or the offer of paying her loan if she goes home, and telling my lawyer to ram the case through.

Gomez

[ForeverDad]

You don't hand over the last of your leverage ( *money* ) until she has complied with all the crucial obligations such as required signatures, moving out, etc.  Partial payments are okay but if you gift away your leverage then you have no leverage left for compliance.

Many disordered people believe that delays will keep the money flowing longer.  They also believe that "final settlement" is not really final and can still be renegotiated or terms sweetened.  That's why modifying your offer can be perceived as weakness in your boundaries and being reasonable can subtly sabotage yourself.  So rather than endlessly modifying your offer, state that any modifications would be held to the side as potential until final agreement.  Or her modification would take something else away.

One concept might be to offer decreasing incentives.  Don't make them too good, remember that this is a very short marriage, in most areas there would be no alimony and very little marital assets to split, though maybe support during the divorce process, not sure, ask your lawyer.  So... .You might offer $2X if she signs all divorce papers within 4X time frame.   But then say she can get $3X if she signs all divorce papers within 3X time frame - or $4X if she signs all divorce papers within 2X time frame.  The point is that she will get more if she signs sooner.  (For you it might be a wash since you are essentially offering her a sliding scale - more money up front if you have to spend less on your costs for divorce process spousal support.)

And all offers need to have an end date, they're not open-ended.  She can't say 'No' now and then when the court decision is less favorable for her then come back to you and demand your prior offer.

Firm boundaries is important here.  "This is IT."  Otherwise it will drag on and on.