BPD ex didn't leave me, I left her- she DOES 'love' me?

[willkennedy]

Hi, this is my first post on here, but without having trawled this site multiple times in a desperate need to understand before I wouldn't be finally posting my own.

I think I need to tell my story, but my ultimate question I feel is quite different from a lot of others' experiences in that 1) My BPD ex didn't leave me, I dumped her and 2) She always claimed to love me even with the ___ that she did. Even now she maintains she loved/loves me despite, again, the ___.

I suppose what I feel is that I don't know what to believe about it all. Reading this site and others confirms most every other negative thing related with those kind of relationships except that she never wanted to leave me, at least not when we'd cemented things. She ___ed up her studies when I threatened to leave back then (I tried not to let her ___ them up), she went to mental hospital and still wrote me letters, I said horrible stuff from pain and to push her away yet she still claims to want me. I left her over a year and a half ago now because I felt insecure about her 'past', because I felt I might be able to find someone more communicative, because the distance was 6,000 miles apart, time zones were awful and because she was my first. Also because I felt so incredibly low about myself.

The story runs along similar lines I think to others. At 19 (turning 22 now), I was a pathetic self conscious mess of a guy I guess... .From the suburbs in the UK. Bit of a loner, never dated, maybe not a complete waste of space but my insecurities have always held me back from girls, from close friendships, even my family. I met her on Omegle. ha... .Not like that, it was the typing one, not video. I typed in Hong Kong as an interest and she came up. Stranger is typing blah blah.

Being an opportunistic 19 year old horny me. Talking about normal stuff too. Mentioned my home town and she knew about the Chinatown there. She 'helped me' with a picture. But anyway, I don't know why I hung about. Because I had a successful Omegle conversation maybe? Rare when you talk like a ___. And she knew about my hometown. Said she would travel Europe in Summer. She was attractive. A week later I remembered her email she sent me and sent a message.

We kept in touch for some reason via email in the latter part of 2012. She liked all this obscure Western music despite being from China (Hong Kong) which surprised me. She talked to me with smileys. She was intelligent. She was 18 but a tutor for kids, I thought pretty amazing - plus I was a loser I couldn't complain. But really, she impressed me, we had a lot in common about very obscure things, let alone the age similarity... .Also her name was what helped... .Jasmine, the same name as an almost-gf of mine at college... .Made me pay attention I guess... .

Anyway- to me this got really special, really fast, it was so fun talking to her, I suddenly felt useful, suddenly felt excited about life. Everytime something random would be how i thought about the world, about music, films, politics whatever. She was a smart girl at the top uni in Asia. She was definitely more attractive than someone I could imagine getting, though tbh I remember not being instantly attracted when I saw her less dolled up. But what did I care? Here was a girl who may visit (incredibly unlikely I was so hopefully naive) and was way out my league I thought. But what could that matter when I had nothing to lose.

We started using Viber to talk, I was so shy, but she seemed shy too. I even planned my phone calls at first... .

Read from a prompt sheet of ___ I'd chose to present myself in my best light (which coincidentally made me think more positively about my strengths I hadn't accepted before.) We watched movies and stuff together online, clicking play at the same time. We recommended music and films. I kept a diary... .I'd very quickly decided to make 2013 about her... .I had nothing else in my life and nothing to lose... .

Ok, well little did I know she was already seeing a guy. ___ing him too obviously. White ___s in Hong Kong as you may know (I'm white but I refer to them meaning the over privileged sort who go for asians in Asia with daddy's cash and white privilege... .I came from nothing really... .) I found this out after months. I'd got so absorbed. We talked everyday, I made her a ___ing crafted penguin love thing (It's amazing... .) Even started learning Chinese... .Enjoyed our films. She presented herself as quite innocent. It made me feel protective and masculine. Gave me purpose and I loved it. But then March 2013 she told me she was with a guy already. 5 months in to this absorbedness I felt. I was hurt by this. But new to things, didn't even know what we were anyway so didn't know how I was meant to react.

It did hurt though that she had hid this while acting like i was the best. Talking everyday into late hours with the time zones, watching movies. Had no idea she was doing this while inevitably going back to ___ this guy before continuing to make me feel I was the only guy. It hurt a lot, but naive me hadn't been in a proper relationship so didn't know this was unforgiveable. I hadn't had the guts to skype with webcam, she said she hadn't trusted a guy online, and though it hurt I tried to accept this logic. She said she would break up. We continued as normal, or maybe things got worse I don't remember. Maybe she got b___ier, made more threats to leave etc. Sucked me in to the point I had barely left the house in half a year. Was losing 'real' friends to her. Couldn't miss a day without contacting her or she would go horrible and threaten leaving, or 'make me jealous' by talking about guys. So I hung about. I literally at one point walked miles daily just to go to a Mcdonalds to use the wifi to talk to her. I had no life but I was hooked. Of course it was also desperation not to lose what I'd never had.

By May 2013, 3 months on, my mum's birthday, she told me she was still with him. This destroyed me tbh. Really really ___ed me up. Knowing everything I had believed was false. Knowing I was accepting self abuse by holding on to her while I lost friends, family, life. But clawing back at those initial amazing feelings, as is the BPD cycle ofc... .

I did have the strength of distance though. I don't think she wanted to leave me, and I also had the strength of having started with nothing, and being better able to accept nothing as just what I would have had anyway, I didn't particularly believe I was in her league so wasn't too attached in the sense that it should be forever. I threatened to leave if she wouldn't break up that day. The same day she also told me about her past. A very small fragment of it... .'Rape' by some German guy who wanted to marry her, did 'disgusting stuff to her' when she travelled to him in Shenzhen. A 40 something year old guy who got her drunk and high and ___ed her and her friend after a nightclub. That disgusted me so much. A guy that did bondage with her. These things hurt so much. Remember I was a virgin. Had not even had sex yet was waiting like an idiot in some 'heroic' stupid belief that waiting was good and that I should be able to rescue this girl from all this abuse.

It ___ed me up. I think back and now I know I'm not the sort ot be even moderately surprised at anyone's pasts. Bondage, rape... .For me now I just accept it as something people have probably done. In Amsterdam they have museums on that ___ so it just carries no shock value anymore. But back then it really really ___ed with my head. Sent me spiralling into a deeper depression than I already was. I slept in fields and cried everyday, was internally tortured by this knowledge and these flashback images of guys I'd never even met. Lasted for the whole relationship. Couldn't embrace her.

But she did break up with him. Said sorry. Though only words. Not much to compensate. I felt like I needed the truth. I couldn't come to terms that i had fallen in love with some 'innocent' kind girl, when now she had shapeshifted into some kind of nymphomaniac. It just wasn't the girl that I had fell for, the girl that I had felt prtoective of. I hated being protective of her when I knew it was me that needed protection. But I just couldn't bear to lose it. Refused to admit I couldn't handle it because my last remnants of 'masculinity' would crush and she would see me as a real loser. Amazingly, she seemed to idolise me. I think the distance helped. It meant I was safe to allow her to believe a constructed image even as she did the same to me. She used to talk down the phone when she thought I was sleeping about how amazing I was and how lucky she was to have me in her life. Told me how she was writing letters for our future kids, for when we got married. I lay there silently in awe of this... .At how a girl could really seem to think I was so ___ing great... .

But yeah, it had damaged me. London. Next stage. She was indeed traveling europe, with her aunt and cousins... .

Well actually, there's an important bit before this. After I was thoroughly ___ed up already, working jobs for her, completely cut off from my friends and family by this point, deep depression, she told me she couldn't make it. Couldn't come visit. As had become pretty natural by this point I cried and cried like a baby. At all I had lost of my life since her. But like a dick promised I would still wait for December 2013 when I had foolhardedly claimed I would definitely visit her in Hong Kong! (This was crazy... .I was 19... .I hadn't even told my family about her. They knew I think... .I withdrew and they hated me for it I think... .But I was on some kind of mission by now, had no idea I could even accomplish it.)

She started to be even worse a month later. July, she said she could make it. In february my granddad had broke his leg on the ice, hospitlaised, in May he developed cancer. In July he was in hospital on extreme meds and ___ed up, we all thought he would die. I hated her. Jasmine. I hated her so much, but I guess I also hated myself. She said she could come London. I said i couldn't, had to be there fro my granddad. She threatened to leave. I almost let her but couldn't. But also wanted her to just ___ off out my life. It was like I had forced her manipulation to a brick wall of BPD configuration. She didn't know how to manipulate someone like this... .She alternated between 'making me jealous' and begging me to visit. And I ___ing liked it. And hated it. I pretty much had a deathwish anyway. I hated her and loved her. But anyway I did go London when she visited. Best day of my life I felt ___ing amazing. She was great. She treated me well, she wanted to ___ me in the Tate Modern Art Gallery hahaha... .I couldn't do it... .Guess I was depressed though probably performance nerves too seeing as she was on her period and because her family would have noticed the time gone. But yeah. It was good.

After this things changed a bit. She loved me more... .She was nicer. She was more clingy. I  no longer saw her as this figure to 'obey' because I saw her insecurities in London. Knew she 'loved me' so didn't feel I needed to be a doormat anymore. Pushed her. Got angry, asked for the truth about things. Pushed it. Wanted to know the past. (idiot me I know). Because I'd booked Hong Kong. I had slaved for the money and half wanted to go just because it cost a bomb and half because I wanted London back. But I stil hurt. Wanted the truth, she sort of told me things, each truth hurt even more, one guy had a foot fetish, another guy ___ed her outside etc. Hurt.

Fast forward. Hong Kong. Amazing city. So ___ing amazing. More so because I literally made it on a naive whim... .Came from poverty and this b___ had pushed me out of it through dogged motivation... .___ing beautiful city.

And her? i don't know. First couple days I was happy with her. Excited. But couldn't have sex. I don't know why. Just couldn't stay hard. And I know this sounds like ED hahaha but I know it wasn't. I remember just not being able to embrace her. Hated that she had made me want to die all year. Hated that she was only wonderful in person. Hated that I had had to suffer so much. But wanted to be happy too, wanted it so bad. Wanted to want her. Wanted her to be this girl from the start. Wanted to feel like a man, not some guy who hadn't had sex and felt like a baby compared to this girl who had tried everything under the sun. When we did have sex- after the first week and a half my dick decided to play along... .- I just couldn't be happy with her. I hated her getting pleasure when I was in pain. I hated her noises when here was a city full of girls, who looked at me, smiled at me. White privilege... .I didn't like that. I hated the guys from her past, and here I was in Hong Kong... .

[willkennedy]

I just couldn't fully enjoy being with her. i would get flashbacks of pain and would have to go walking around the city by myself. I felt the need to be a dickhead, smiling at girls in the street, talking to hookers on temple street, felt like I should be allowed to have extra leeway seeing as I had been used in the same way. I do remember guilt though. I wanted to love only her. But hated how much pain I was in. It got ___. I felt schizo. I was in some daze, I was terrified that I felt like I couldn't leave her. She was treating me well in HK. But I couldn't love her fully. I was in pain. I went for my own walks. I went to Temple street. A hooker took me upstairs. Did what she wanted. Jasmine called but I let the phone ring, excited at my own evil. Yet guilty. The hooker handed me my phone so I stopped her from doing what she was doing. I felt ___. But felt crazy, insane. Clinically insane. Couldn't even believe I was real. In Hong Kong? A guy like me doesn't get that chance! Loyalty? That thing I had valued? Cheating? that thing I had hated a year ago? I felt like I had lost myself, my morals and my core and I literally didn't care about those things anymore. I couldn't know what was real.

I went back to her and after tyhe hooker it actually felt like a release, I felt freer. It was bad but I felt so happy. So free. When I got back she tried to kiss me. I pushed her away. Had a shower, washed myself all over. Sprayed it in my mouth and spat soap out. Hated what I had done and wanted to separate it from Jasmine. Wanted to treat her special... .I was ___ed in the head then. Came out the shower to my angel lying sad in bed. Suspicious. Asked where I'd been. I didn't tell her at first, crumpled face down in the bed, felt completely empty. Wanted to die, wanted her to stab me, kill me. "Where were you?" "Temple Street" "There's prostitutes there" "I know". When I told her it was silent. And then she horrified me... .She started touching herself.

She grabbed me, touching herself. Asked about it so calmly. "Were they better than me?" Tried to climb on me, I pushed her off. Disgusted in myself. Disgusted that I felt  like I had got away with it. Disgusted that she wanted me. Disgusted that I had become someone who actually felt a twinge of pleasure in knowing I could do whatever the ___ I wanted. Revenge side of me. But the guilty conscience that I'm glad has always existed.

I got angry. Got her away, packed my bags. Said i needed to leave, that she can do better. Went to leave the hotel. She grabbed my arm, begged me to stay. I shouted at her, psuhed her off me. Went to leave again. Looked at her, naked and collapsed on the bed. Looking like a chubby angel, sobbing into the blankets. I couldn't leave her. I loved her didn't I? Went back silently to hug her, stop her scratching herself. Held her tight. Felt dead. Stopped her scratching her skin off. Held her tight. Kept her still. Made her calm down, made her crying slow down. Dead inside. Collapsed on the bed when she was calm, still crying, she climbed on me again, my eyes dead, staring into space. Let her undress me, too dead to think. Let her undress me, let her do whatever she wanted.

I woke up in the middle of the night crying my eyes out. Had a nightmare. Very vivid nightmare. In the nightmare I had left her, and she one day died. I felt it. I had the choice to forget her and just get with someone sane. Forget her. But couldn't, I spend the dream wlaking around Hong Kong for years, searching for her. So lost and so upset, I found her in a shop window, laying naked and asleep. I rushed at her, full of pain and sorrow and woke up, and in real life now I saw her laying there, woke her up by hugging her tight and burying my tears into her little body. She comforted me and I fell back to sleep. Loved her so much.

But then next morning she had to go work. I felt ___ again soon. Lost those feelings of love, knew it was a dream, knew she wasn't really dead. Felt pain again, at her past, at what I had become. I ended up that I would still spend the rest of the trip in anger and resentment. Went back to Temple Street though no sex. Just wanted her but couldn't stand her. Didn't know what was wrong with me. On the plane home I cried but wanted it to crash so bad. Wanted to escape, death seemed like the only way out.

[willkennedy]

___ ___ ___ fast forward. I tried to get more answers, back in the UK. First half of 2014 I was depressed still. Scared that I had been so ___ed up yet knowing I was back to living within the constraints of the time zones. Wasting my life, knowing I had not resolved the pain. Terrified to go back to wifi and skype and viber for ___ knows how long? I tried to push harder for answers, still hurt, called her bad ___, wanted her to leave. Wanted answers, wanted to feel happy. Wanted other girls, wanted something to fix us. She woud hang up all the time, insult, no longer nice like in HK and London. Laugh about her past. Insensitively talk about previous sex. Laugh about it when I begged for answers. Back to being ___ed up again. Had to get away. She kept hanging up which ___ed with me, making sucide threats. I contacted the HK police who put her in a mental hospital. She stayed there for a month. I heard nothing from her. didn't know to leave or to wait. May 2014 she got out on her bday. She told me what they did to her. I knew I had become insensitvie and cold. Even while she was in there my pain would make me send nasty ___ alternated with nice ___ to push and pull her away. But I felt guilty for what I'd done. But had to leave. June 2014 we agreed to leave. Excpet all I wanted was her to change her behavior. June 16 I wanted to leave but begged her to make me love her again. She ignored me and we stopped speaking.

I started uni. September 2014- May 2015 now. I couldn't forget her. I tried. I went to Europe in July/August. Couchsurfed. Had a deathwish haha I slept homeless in Paris. Slept in bushes in the middle of some busy ass roundabout at Porte Maillot. Spoke to beggars and travelled. Fell in a swamp and stayed at an overly forward gay old guy's in Amsterdam... .hahaha... .African internet cafe in Cologne... .Rain fell so bad and my laptop and all my clothes got soaked. Laptop stopped working. In Germany I lost my iPhone. I could no longer dwell on her photos... .Crazy good experience. I didn't care about dying. So it was amazing and I love the memories. I didn't know how she was, if she died or what. So I hung on, asked after her when i met other HK c-surfers. Didn't know what to think but hoped she was waiting for me.


I took losing my ___ as a sign to let go. But I couldn't for long... .I did. But once in Uni it was like I sunk into insecurity... .Didn't meet people. She reactivated her fbook and I stalked it without revealing anything. Didn't give the impression I was moving on but didn't wanna contact her. It was like I had forgotten how ___ed up I got but knew I had definitely been ___ed up. Wanted to see what she did naturally without my influence. Read about BPD (which I only knew about in 2014 after her hospital). Read that she would be ___ing new guys. Wanted to know for sure. Saw her 'like' lots of white hipster rich ___s photos. Made me feel ___ty so didn't contact.

But in Decemeber I had been dwelling on it, convinvicng myself I might love her still. So contacted. She replied that she had 'dreamt of me, I've missed you'. But I knew she had liked these guys, went to events with these guys. We spoke, she said she loved me so much, I was scared tbh to trust, so said we couldn't be together because I didn't trust her about the guys. That I hadn't been with girls. She said she'd never say goodbye. Christmas time I notcied a picture change, literally 2 weeks later. Her with some guy. Turns out she was seeing him, ___ing him, some exchange law student... .

I was hurt, but felt as if the decision had been made by fate. I tried to get an explanation and closure. I tried to get my stuff back (I gave her some personally vlauable stuff). I was hurt. I felt like i loved her. Not fully attracted to her, but felt so betrayed. Had thought we were a team. One time told her I was failing. I was suffering i said. Hoped she would help but it was like she hated me. She went out and ___ed him that night I said I needed help and said i needed to go back to who I was before we met. It hurt.

But I didn't tell her everything. I worked my ass off at uni. I secured exchange year to Hong ___ing Kong. Happens this september. Told her after she had dropped me, to make her feel like she missed out I guess... .like an idiot i was. And it was when she knew I was coming to her city that suddenly she was all like 'Oh can I see you?' telling me she wanted to meet me, wanted me. I told her she was a b___ and no she ___ing can't. Should have been loyal like i had been.

But ___ happens. After ___ing manipulation of my own I finally got her to send back my things. But still ocntacted her. I don't know why. I think part of me still loves her and couldn't stand to lose her from my life. I don't know why, perhaps I should feel cocky. Hong Kong again with no restraining influence this time. Away from someone that ___ed me up... .But I still contacted, said nasty stuff alternating between nicer ___. And term has ended now. She apparently broke up with this guy 2 months ago, ___ knows how many others there may have been though.


She ___ed him more than I ever got the chance to I'm sure. i should be ___ing happy right? To have not crumbled and sank to nothingness, but be going back to that city after almost 2 years! But I don't know. She's a smart girl, and I did ___ her up too. She didn't need to reply to me. She could have blocked me. I put her on meds. She completely ___ed up her grades at uni. She got straight A's in everything before me. She ___ed them up for/because of me. She has anxiety. She gets rageful. She seems to dwell on the insults i said: whore, slut, shallow, b___ etc. Whereas, while I say I got ___ed up, I'm now going to ___ing Hong Kong with decent grades and I'm not the one with BPD.

I feel sorry for her. It's hard to hate someone, that selfishly or not I don't know, ___ed up her life for me. Claims to love me. Has actually expressed feelings of guilt and remorse (which I thought was unheard of for BPDs.) Says she thought I didn't want her, as I told her she was all these things and tbf did say I didn't want her. But that was after the new guys. I had wanted her to prove herself. But I had to contact her. I didn't tell her I was waiting because I didn't know what I was doing. I just had felt so great with her (I think... .ha ridiculous though isn't it? But there had genuinely been some amazing times. When we were both calm it felt like we were such a team, that we could change the world together. The good times lasted until I wanted to discuss something she didn't wanna talk about was  the issue. But when I was happy, she treated me well and I loved it. Just didn't know who I was dating is all. And back then I felt more hurt by the past. Nowadays I feel desensitised to pasts in general... .)

Anyway, I'm going to Hong Kong. Somehow I can't just rule out not seeing her again. Maybe insecurity. I feel ___ about myself sometimes. Worry about finding a girl that will make me happy who is intelligent and has our story. I'm not all that. I have insecurities, about my apearance, about lots of things... .I'm not a wreck, I'm much much stronger than 19 year old me. It's crazy how strong I feel nowadays. After Hong Kong, after Europe... .It's hard not to feel like a stronger guy.

Sometimes I think of sex with her. I never got to do much but it was HOT. I was inexperienced (still am tbh, damaged security does that) and that made it better in a way, felt new and exciting and if she wanted to take charge it was actually genuine haha... .not roleplay, I was genuinely new and she experienced so it was like actually being a sex toy hahaha... .I guess part of me likes that ___... .But part of me doesn't... .Especially knowing its like giving her pleasure and control when she treated me like ___. I just wanted her to be a nice girl, not a b___. I have this ___ing moral compass that, even when I feel ___, makes me dislike bad treatment to anyone. She had wanted to visit before we broke up. She begged me to let her visit UK, doesn't matter if I don't wanna be with her anymore, but she just wanted a month to do me everyday and make me feel good. I turned that ___ down because I wanted to 'do the right thing.'

And now she's given that to some new guy/s when I could have had it.

But she claims to love me. I don't know how i feel about her. Part of me wants to find out in person. Part of me wants to have sex again. We didn't really get a chance to try each other out in person. I spent a total of 22 days with her actually physically. The rest was all webcams and viber phone calls. She treated me well in person. Sometimes I think back to london and Hong Kong. She was really lovely and kind. She took care of me and I know she loved to have me around. It was just that by Hong Kong the damage was done and I hated to love her.

I feel in a stronger position now. In some ways its better in my mind because I no longer have an obligation to be with her. She was ___ing someone else while I was like a ___ing saint, sacrificing for this idea of 'true love waits'... .So in some ways I feel like this time, she knows I call the shots about whether I be with her or not. Should I meet up with her in Hong Kong? Will ___ go down again? If we have sex (maybe I won't want to I don't know) will she turn to a monster? Will it ___ me up? I'm no longer someone that cares so much. If I'm honest part of me like that she ___ed me up because it forced me to snap out of this overly caring lefty baby who gives people second chances and believes in 'love'... .I'm still a nice person but I know I'm unlikely to ever be turned to jelly by pasts and cheating and bull___ ever again. Any other girl problems should be a breeze after being homeless in Europe and literally destroying my ideology time and again... .

I think I'll be fine this time. She says she loves me... .I don't know how I feel, but part of me wants to find out... .I don't particularly like her past but part of me thinks I'm just being 'old fashioned' and patriarchal. I don't know how much I'd care about pasts if she makes me happy and feel good... .I feel like if anything this ___ needs to be put to bed. Should I meet her? When she says she loves me... .I guess perhaps despite being sensitive I've also always been a bit antisocial. Part of me knows she is predictable and part of me knows cheating is meant to be wrong, but as far as I know, while we were actually together she didn't cheat after that first time... .Not after London. She was always there to talk everyday. She stayed up all night... .There's no way she was ___ing people easily anyway... .She was loyal until I left... .

Sometimes it makes me think, because she ___ed up her grades, because she hurt herself (she even said she cut herself down there because she felt bad which hurts me to know), because she's on meds and I'm not, because London was great, because something makes me miss her, because life is short... .despite her BPD and the ___ it leads her to do (paint me black, change her mind when I'm suddenly going HK, didn't want to let me go in the first place, was loyal and kind when we were together... .Part of me thinks I should give her a chance... .Life is short right?

Somehow, even with the ___ and the cheating... .which has actually made me feel like I care less about caring too much so am more willing to accept if I decide when there that I don't want her... .I just feel like she's been a 'good' BPD... .She did seem to love me... .whatever that means for her... .

I don't know... .Should I go and find out... .I'm used to dealing with her hell... .I'll be 22 when I'm there... .I'm no longer as weak as I once was. I think I can handle it... .

----Sorry for the long long story... .I always feel like a narcissist when I think people would even wanna read my ___... .But just wondering if this sounds like a girl that truly doesn't care about me... .When I read about other BPDs they always seem to give up and I don't think she ever truly succeeding in painting me black... .------

Also I'm just an idiot and the omegle thing and the way I'm no longer in poverty but going Hong Kong makes me feel like there's fate and ___... .A fortune teller in HK, wise looking old guy, said we were meant to be together. He also said she would lose me because she wouldn't treat me well. But he also said I would come back to Hong Kong. I don't really buy his ___ but somehow I haven't been able to relax knowing she would fade from my life and I don't know why. I get a year in HK. Maybe I should see what happens... .

BPD feels awful to me... .I don't like to leave someone to live with that. Evil? I don't know that I see her in that way... .I have done... .but just dont know that I can complain... .I don't know how I feel about her. Maybe we can be friends... .

Just wanted to share my experience... .Just thinking maybe it could be a different kind of BPD... .I don't think she's evil and she never fully painted me black... .She showed sacrifice for me, not in the same way, but she ___ed her own ___ up over me... .I didn't know BPD did that is all