Closure

[Beach_Babe]

Would a final "closure" conversation actually make me feel worse?

Anyone have experience with this?

[Beach_Babe]

Wishful thinking I know it won't happen. Just wondered if id be back at 'square one' if it did.

[fromheeltoheal]

Most folks here have said it made it worse, or at least didn't give them the closure they were looking for.  An issue is while you want closure, what does he want?  Once we get to the devaluation stage of the disorder we have become the trigger, not the soother, to strong emotions a borderline has trouble regulating.  So any attempts at a mature conversation at that point might be seen as an attack, a borderline can't take responsibility for anything without falling apart, so blame shows up as a defense mechanism, and you'll get blamed instead of offered real closure.  You don't want that.

But the good news is we get to figure out how to give ourselves closure, which ends up being more powerful, and starts with accepting that our exes have a mental illness and the regular rules of civility don't apply.  Where are you with that Beach?

[Beach_Babe]

 I never wanted him to leave. But he IS gone now. Might as well say dead. I don't want to ache for a ghost.

I just feel so STUCK.

[Beach_Babe]

How can they not miss us? It not human. No grieving?

[enlighten me]

I wouldnt expect getting the mature closure conversation you are hoping for. When they feel threatened they go on the defensive and project. You will like most end up feeling worse.

The best closure you can get is by accepting he has a dissorder and that no matter what you did the ending was inevitable.

[Recooperating]

I got somewhat of closure when he texted me after 3 months NC. (Now 8 months)

I answered, wished him well and he got angry and started a new rant with accusations and BS. How he never loved me and how I never gave a damn about him... .  So much for a peacefull goodbye. There's a thread about it here... .Closure doesnt come from them, its a process within us. If we depend on others for closure we will be stuck forever, its about finding a way to move on for us, take responsibility for our own feelings and shifting the focus from them back to us.

Hang in there BB! Time is your best friend (and worst enemy... .).  

[going places]

When my ex opened his mouth, it was a lie.

So, why would I want to have any type of conversation with a liar?

That's not closure, that's torture.

He destroyed our family, deceived us all; for YEARS, then just moved on and replaced us with a new female and her child. There is NOTHING he could possibly say that any of us would want to hear, and we'd never know if it was truth, or another lie.

Closure for me was the sale of our home, and me and the kids moving into an apartment.

That, was closure for them too.

I had to email the ex this week. Medical bills that are piling up (daughter in an accident in Jan).

I simply scanned bills, told him the situation, the end.

He emailed back and asked a question or two.

I answered.

The end.

It's still upsetting (I will be divorced 1 year next month).

I had a panic attack last night at work... .

I simply hate communicating w/ him at all. I hate it.

How can they not miss us? Easily for my ex. He is N / ASPD, and just an evil monster.

The only time he grieves, or shows ANY emotion for that matter, is when somehow that 'display' or 'show' will get him what he wants. He has no soul. He's messed up, and he is NOT MY PROBLEM anymore.

There is TOO much life to be lived, and he will not steal one more minute of my time.

Focus on you Babe... .every time you even THINK about him, stop, and replace that thought with something healthy.  It too me MONTHS to get to this point where 'naturally' when a thought of the ex came in, that a healthy thought pushed him out. But it's a God send. It saved my sanity.

[Infared]

My experience was that I was in an incredible amount of emotional pain, caused by the abrupt, dishonest, childish abandonment of our relationship. The person that I thought I had known for 5 years had vanished and was replaced with a selfish, dishonest, blaming, abusive cheater. There was no possibility for an adult closure conversation when I was interacting with a selfish, lying, blaming child. None. (Disordered or not, that was the reality). It added to my pain greatly, but I was on my own. That was the truth, and I had to accept it. Very painful stuff. I was left with grieving the loss on my own with the occasional contact (note on car?), drive-bye or whatever?  Absolute NC was a useful tool once I had this realization.

I can compare directly to a 9-month relationship that followed my BPD experience, that I had with an adult. It's isn't exactly a perfect comparison, but in this instance I broke oFf the relationship and I sat the person down and explained to them my reasons (it was painful for me, too), and we let some time go by... .and guess what, we have a friendship now. We were both respectful somewhat healthy adults, though.

This helped give me clarity to my BPD experience... .sometimes I would think I was the problem... .but it just wasn't so.

In my singular experience, there is just no possibility of anything balanced or respectful or normal in dealing with a pwBPD.  We are left to grieve a significant loss on our own and are taunted and given wacky contacts that disrupt the process that we are left to on our own. I got a therapist and lots of support and slowly, slowly, slowly worked my way through it... .

I did not have to go it alone, but I was getting nothing but hurt from the disordered person, so I avoided that like the plague. Contact did not help my healing process. It caused more pain.

[Trog]

Did any conversation you had with your BPD make total sense and offer validation?

Closure with a BPD/NPD, just like improving the relationship, is a one man/woman show. Nothing my ex could say to me would offer any solace. As she is BPd it would only be valid for the minute she said it and it would most likely never correlate with what I felt was the truth. I never really knew my wife, not really, however in one of our final conversations she did say to me 'You deserve better', on this; I agree 100%. But I don't need to verify my reality anymore, that's a caretaker trait.

[FannyB]

Most folks here have said it made it worse, or at least didn't give them the closure they were looking for.  An issue is while you want closure, what does he want?  Once we get to the devaluation stage of the disorder we have become the trigger, not the soother, to strong emotions a borderline has trouble regulating.  So any attempts at a mature conversation at that point might be seen as an attack, a borderline can't take responsibility for anything without falling apart, so blame shows up as a defense mechanism, and you'll get blamed instead of offered real closure.  You don't want that.

But the good news is we get to figure out how to give ourselves closure, which ends up being more powerful, and starts with accepting that our exes have a mental illness and the regular rules of civility don't apply.  Where are you with that Beach?

This is spot on. Did get 'closure' from my ex and it panned out as described above. Did it bother me? No! I'd already made up my own mind as to what happened based on research and observation. I might be wrong. Perhaps she's fine and I'm the disordered one!   It matters not either way, as I'm happy with the version of events as I see it. But to arrive at that point you've gotta be able to conclude they are broke beyond fixing (without therapy) and stop hankering after them!  :'(

[sbr1050]

My therapist had me write a letter to my ex (one I will not send) writing all my feelings and thoughts to him.  So far I have 8 pages, typed, single spaced.  Funny thing is, is my weak moments, I read the thing and am reminded about all the ways he hurt me.  I thought it was a silly exercise at first but it is helping me get thru the low moments.  Apparently I will burn this letter but until I do, it is helping me.

[zundertowz]

Initially this is what I was longing for... .some kinda closure... .I was even willing to take on the brunt of the blame just to end the relationship in peace.  But its never going to happen, even if she contacts me it will be for her own self gratification and will probably hurt me in the process.  Looking back I realize this person has no empathy or care for anyone... .it was about her and always about her.  Im starting to rememember all the details and red flags and one of them was fake crying... .even when we were together and she was claiming she was hurt or upset it was these crying fits with no tears and sniffling... .its been over 2 months any contact would be selfish at this point... .the people we thought we knew are gone and never coming back and if they do it would probably be a more selfish version if thats even possible.  It may be a tempory ego boost or feel soothing for a moment to have contact with the ex but yes I think it would be a major set back... .I wouldnt even believe anything that was said anyway.

[Low C]

How can they not miss us? It not human. No grieving?

I think there's a good chance your ex does miss you and will continue to, long after you've stopped missing them.  The thing is, getting them to admit that, to say it in a way that accepts responsibility and gives you closure, is unlikely.  With my ex, so much of our conversations, after devaluation, were her simply saying whatever she thought would get the biggest reaction at that moment.  No continuity with anything she said five minutes earlier or later.  And often that statement was designed to cause me pain, guilt or anxiety. 

That person wants control, and closure is losing control.

[Mr.Downtrodden]

Closure makes no difference in my mind.

I sort of "got a bit" after I was just casually abandoned by my exGF. 

It didn't make me feel "better".

Nor did it change the outcome.

If anything, it reeked of deflection and absolving of her own wrong-doings (I can't be that girl for anyone... .)

So, why did she not say so at the start?

[fromheeltoheal]

How can they not miss us? It not human. No grieving?

Just talking standard borderline here, up to you to see if it applies to your ex: a borderline feels intense emotions that they have trouble regulating, soothing, and all of the behaviors come out of that, along with the continual focus on abandonment.  So if he was to grieve, he's conclude it didn't work because he's not good enough, the shame would show up, he doesn't exist now because he doesn't have a fully formed self of his own and needs an attachment to complete him, and who he is to himself is constantly changing without an anchor.  Shtty place to be, it feels really bad, so the tools have to be equally strong, meaning you don't exist, the relationship never happened, forward focus, new attachment, whatever, just don't go there, avoid those feelings so hard he can't feel them or even acknowledge he has them.

We all do that to some extent Beach, that's why the 'good ol' days' are called that; we focus on the positive to move forward with our lives, but taken to the extreme it's called mental illness.  Gotta work on accepting that, it's very hard, especially when we didn't know that when we were in it and all-in emotionally, but that shift to acceptance will give you peace, in relation to him anyway, and then we get to start focusing on our own stuff and asking how and why we went so far down that rabbit hole.  Take care of you!

[Beach_Babe]

Most folks here have said it made it worse, or at least didn't give them the closure they were looking for.  An issue is while you want closure, what does he want?

Me gone and to stay there I guess.


MrDowntrodden: how did that come about? Did she initiate it? From what I understand the outcome would be unpleasant unless contact came from him during a recycle.

LowC: how is closure losing control? They got us to go. Isn't that what they wanted? Im sorry you had that experience. Mine enjoyed hurting me too, but I admit I also threw sone zingers. I wish I hadn't but it is what it is.

[quote author=zundertowz link=topic=277628.msg12627408#msg12627408 date=1432815949).  Looking back I realize this person has no empathy or care for anyone... .it was about her and always about her.[/quote]
I guess thats why the end was so brutal. I know if he ever does contact me again, it will be only when he hits rock bottom, with absolutely no better alternative. Given the distance separating us, unless I reach out thats unlikely. He has too much supply now with his new job, and daily trolling of the internet. When did you finally reach the point you no longer cared?


sbr1050: Thank you for sharing that. A letter is a great idea. How are you doing?


FannyB: so right you are! I guess in a way I did get "closure," however, just not the kind I wanted. It was cruel and cold.  Very hard to accept this is how he feels. If im no longer "worthy" to him would 'nice words' even  absolve that pain?  They do not change the outcome. Why am I seeking validation from such a disordered person? I dont know.

Trog: not with mine. A friend though did get such a conversation with his BPD ex, and said it helped him to move on. This was a year and a half after the breakup though. What was your experience?

[Beach_Babe]

Infared: I am afraid of getting hurt again, thats why I stay no contact as well. Part of me wonders if "closure" is really an excuse to have contact; another "hit" of the drug. I know I have a lot of work to do on me. Have you run into her lately?

[Trog]

Most folks here have said it made it worse, or at least didn't give them the closure they were looking for.  An issue is while you want closure, what does he want?

Me gone and to stay there I guess.


MrDowntrodden: how did that come about? Did she initiate it? From what I understand the outcome would be unpleasant unless contact came from him during a recycle.

LowC: how is closure losing control? They got us to go. Isn't that what they wanted? Im sorry you had that experience. Mine enjoyed hurting me too, but I admit I also threw sone zingers. I wish I hadn't but it is what it is.

[quote author=zundertowz link=topic=277628.msg12627408#msg12627408 date=1432815949).  Looking back I realize this person has no empathy or care for anyone... .it was about her and always about her.

I guess thats why the end was so brutal. I know if he ever does contact me again, it will be only when he hits rock bottom, with absolutely no better alternative. Given the distance separating us, unless I reach out thats unlikely. He has too much supply now with his new job, and daily trolling of the internet. When did you finally reach the point you no longer cared?


sbr1050: Thank you for sharing that. A letter is a great idea. How are you doing?


FannyB: so right you are! I guess in a way I did get "closure," however, just not the kind I wanted. It was cruel and cold.  Very hard to accept this is how he feels. If im no longer "worthy" to him would 'nice words' even  absolve that pain?  They do not change the outcome. Why am I seeking validation from such a disordered person? I dont know.

Trog: not with mine. A friend though did get such a conversation with his BPD ex, and said it helped him to move on. This was a year and a half after the breakup though. What was your experience? [/quote]
It was a difficult. I left my wife now vice versa. The kind of closure I needed was 'why did she treat me so bad', 'why couldn't she take her meds, didnt I mean enough to take a pill' and many more. But the facts are my ex is mentally ill. Im not going to get any sense let alone sensible answers to my important questions from her because my real issues lay within me. That's why im such a strong advocate of looking at yourself and not your ex.

[Mayjar68]

Beach babe I think you will never get closure and that's the hardest thing to take. Could you believe anything he said anyway ? All this is very hard as I'm 3 months out of a 6 year relationship. He's now with the the woman he'd been having an affair with for 18 months, she lives a minute away from me and there's a chance I could bump into them every where I go. So I really understand your pain. I had a bad night last night. You need to get angry, remember how he treated you. You deserve better than this ! You deserve to be with someone who loves and respects you. Who won't lie and cheat, to cherish you. We mourn the person that never was. We was scammed and conned.remember what he done to you.  Do you really need closure for that. I'm fed up with myself feeling so wretched. I read something that struck a nerve in me last night. Can't remember it word for word but on the lines of I won't let rent a space in my head anymore. Please let's promise ourselves that we won't these people occupy our lives anymore in any form and to move on and hopefully live better lives. Don't let him hurt you anymore than he has

[Beach_Babe]

Very true =( How are you doing today?

Recooperating: oh how awful. To be honest my ex sent me an email wishing me well the night before my surgery (but refused my phone call) maybe I just didnt get the hint either? Have you heard from him since then?


goingplaces: Does he share custody with you?

[zundertowz]

Most folks here have said it made it worse, or at least didn't give them the closure they were looking for.  An issue is while you want closure, what does he want?

Me gone and to stay there I guess.


MrDowntrodden: how did that come about? Did she initiate it? From what I understand the outcome would be unpleasant unless contact came from him during a recycle.

LowC: how is closure losing control? They got us to go. Isn't that what they wanted? Im sorry you had that experience. Mine enjoyed hurting me too, but I admit I also threw sone zingers. I wish I hadn't but it is what it is.

[quote author=zundertowz link=topic=277628.msg12627408#msg12627408 date=1432815949).  Looking back I realize this person has no empathy or care for anyone... .it was about her and always about her.

I guess thats why the end was so brutal. I know if he ever does contact me again, it will be only when he hits rock bottom, with absolutely no better alternative. Given the distance separating us, unless I reach out thats unlikely. He has too much supply now with his new job, and daily trolling of the internet. When did you finally reach the point you no longer cared?


sbr1050: Thank you for sharing that. A letter is a great idea. How are you doing?


FannyB: so right you are! I guess in a way I did get "closure," however, just not the kind I wanted. It was cruel and cold.  Very hard to accept this is how he feels. If im no longer "worthy" to him would 'nice words' even  absolve that pain?  They do not change the outcome. Why am I seeking validation from such a disordered person? I dont know.

Trog: not with mine. A friend though did get such a conversation with his BPD ex, and said it helped him to move on. This was a year and a half after the breakup though. What was your experience? [/quote]
Its not that I don't care I never expected it... .I mentally told myself that if she kicked me out or threatned me again I was done... .so I basically burned all bridges our last fight to the point I knew this nightmare would have to end... .she did way to much damage to accept.   Im painted blacker than black now... .if she ever did contact me I may use it to my benifit but in no way am I expecting it.  Deep down I wanted it for a few weeks but I knew it was never coming.

[Infared]

Infared: I am afraid of getting hurt again, thats why I stay no contact as well. Part of me wonders if "closure" is really an excuse to have contact; another "hit" of the drug. I know I have a lot of work to do on me. Have you run into her lately?

No I have not!  I think she and my replacement moved out of my area.  We both lived in the same town.  To be honest, it's years later and I have releif that she is gone and I will not have to put up with the immature hurtful behavior... .but I also feel sad that she is gone, too. That is being honest. I cared very deeply for her but her terms are totally unacceptable to me to have any type of interaction with her. I just deserve soo much better.

I love your honesty! ... .and I already knew that part or most of your reason to have a closure conversation was to make contact! You would get nothing but BPD gibberish and hurt... .but you painful yearning is just so strong right now.

It takes time, lots of time to grieve the fact that someone we care so deeply for wants to hurt us or at best is indifferent to us. Give your self a break, this is very fresh and raw to you and you are just beginning your grieving process of a very long term relationship. I truly KNOW how much pain your are in and my heart goes out to you!      . Just keep taking baby steps forward... .it gets better. God Bless.

[Mr.Downtrodden]

MrDowntrodden: how did that come about? Did she initiate it? From what I understand the outcome would be unpleasant unless contact came from him during a recycle.

Beach_Babe, my ex GF's promiscuous activities were well hidden from me, because we lived 200 miles apart.

Initially, she presented herself as single after ending a relationship of nearly 6 years. She framed everything to make it appear as if she was available and seriously interested in me.

A year later found her exposed (two of the guys who she was sleeping with decided to contact me indirectly to tell me what was really going on, including a boyfriend she told me she was done with - the one who caused her to cheat on her 6 year r/s boyfriend).  She tried to convince me that even though she had slept with both that the things they conveyed in striking detail were lies; since she had long since scorned them, they were jealous and set to destroy any r/s she would try to have with another guy. You know, the classic scorn of "if I can't have her, than no man can... ." attitude.  Interesting that both sides identified me as a "Victim" by then.

Well, my ex couldn't lie about getting pregnant by a one night totally drunken sexfest with a co worker.  She had the audacity to try and assuage my reaction of just being destroyed by telling me what happened (three weeks after) & that she had zero emotional feelings for the father - I was the only one she had deep feelings for, and that this event did not have to affect our relationship.   I decided to contact one of the FWB guys and tell them that she would soon be a mom, and that is when the crap hit the fan -she went off on me, not raging, but through carefully worded, low key tone that she couldn't be "that girl" and that she was done dealing with being blamed for something that "takes two to tango" - her fave expression of deflection and absolving her own selfish actions.  It was only that she could not deal with being exposed in a backhanded fashion that she started to drop hints.  About two weeks later she decided that she couldn't handle the responsibility (meaning a r/s with me) and that she can't be trusted (I took that as a sarcastic jab at the time rather than any sense of shame). And then she abandoned me for four months before contacting me again to tell me that everyone had abandoned her... .And I then felt sorry for her yet again, hoping to be her friend, and that turned out even worse.  If anything, what transpired between us proved to me that you cannot save or help anyone but yourself.

And that is why closure is not even worth the effort. Closure needs to cone from within yourself, through soul searching and being honest about your r/s.  To me, closure equates to indifference.  I hope to get there someday.

[Allmessedup]

I have been thinking about this tonight myself... .

And closure does come from within.  I just had a little help in the process.

I desperately sought closure when my dxBPDgf broke up with me last January.  I have many a thread on these boards and in my journals about it.

What it was doing really was not allowing me to close that chapter.

My gf and I got back together that following april.  Incessant apologies etc.   I was so so so certain I could fix things if I had half a chance with all that I had learned.  And I tried.  I worked very very very hard. 

Both on the way to communicate effectively and on myself, my FOO stuff etc.

But she still dysregulated.  Some of the behaviors stopped but my needs were not getting met and pretty much I constantly was piss*ng her off. 

The difference was I could see it happening,  I could see the chaotic thinking.  The merging with the past and present.

Fact is my exgf is diagnosed.  She has done tons of intensive therapy.  I was working on my skills.  It SHOULD have worked.

But yet I am here again.  Five days out.  And the closure that I have is that I am not surprised in the least. 

It can not work.  Not for us.  And I no longer need her to explain to me why.  I know why.  I just want my heart to believe it. 

It's hard to let go of the dream.


Amu

[Beach_Babe]

He's now with the the woman he'd been having an affair with for 18 months, she lives a minute away from me and there's a chance I could bump into them every where I go.

Now THATS rough! Mine was a LDR, though I was planning to move to be with him. I am glad I didn't. I can't imagine how hard that would be. Have you run into them yet?

How did he react ?

Allmessedup: thank you for sharing that! I started posting on here back in December when we were still together. I tried the to implement what I learned from the staying board. In the end, however I still failed. It takes two to make a relationship, and in the end only one of us cared =(

MrDowntrodden: wow, now THAT is crazy. Mine went nuts too after his buddy exposed his bad behavior. Said it was my fault, I pushed him to it.

Did yours ever spologize for what she put you through?

[once removed]

beach babe, youve gotten a lot of great advice here. in particular, writing letters you wont send, i think its very useful. i wrote at least one and it went a long way. i tried making a list of things to keep me geared toward no longer wanting the relationship, and it became a letter to myself, and it was a major turning point in my recovery.

there are multiple ways to find closure and no one can necessarily tell you the right one; even if they do, youre likely to find it on your own, eventually. some members have gotten it from a few last contacts, but in general, i dont think either a pwBPD or pwnpd can give it to you.

[Beach_Babe]

Great advice indeed! Tell me more about the list, that sounds interesting

[once removed]

well, its a list of everything you dislike about the relationship or the person. we may be rationally aware of these things all ready, but writing them really helps them sink in.

in the book, the journey from abandonment to healing, the author mentions the lonely child, and describes people that have engaged in an actual conversation with this lonely child. its similar.

in my case, it became somewhere between a list, and like i said, a letter to myself, from a very real and convincing part of myself. it was as if i was convincing myself to get closer to my wise mind. monumental turning point for me that was somewhere between semi permanent and completely permanent.

im just a huge believer in writing this stuff out in general. putting thoughts to paper has more therapeutic benefit than one (myself included) might assume. i think i found a method in which i really connected with myself and connected wise mind with rational mind.

if you try it, and it isnt semi permanent or completely permanent, i think youll find its very good practice, with great effect 

[going places]

goingplaces: Does he share custody with you?

The kids are adults, all over 21.

Babe... .you said "it takes two to make a relationship, and in the end, only one of us cared".

When those sad feelings start to consume you remember this: It takes two, you gave it 100%, he did not, so why spend ONE SECOND of your precious time thinking about someone who didn't care? Re-focus your energy on you. Care about and for YOU.

[Beach_Babe]

onceremoved: My T talked about something similar. I think I will give it a try.

goingplaces: I always put him first and so did he. Stupid me, I always assumed he felt the same.

[going places]

onceremoved: My T talked about something similar. I think I will give it a try.

goingplaces: I always put him first and so did he. Stupid me, I always assumed he felt the same.

I was _____'s wife and _____ _____ _____'s mom.

He always, and still does, put himself first, and so does his father, and so did his grandfather, and so does his brother... .

I went thru a LONG period of time where I was very down on myself.

Stupid me. How could *I* be so blind, dumb, gullible.

Why didn't *I* see the signs (and there were none... .no kidding... .for real... .he was that good)

This drove me to the "why". Why is this happening? This makes no sense.

I need things to make sense... .

Holy Lord I thought my brain was going to explode.

When I got to the place of "his choices are HIS choices, period AND his choices tell me WHO and WHAT he really is"

His choices were the "outward expression of his true inward self".

His choices revealed to me WHO he REALLY is.

And it's ugly, and I am worth more than that.

It takes hard work to rewire your brain to stop the negative and replace it with positive... .but it can be done!

Hang in there Babe... .you got this!

[Beach_Babe]

"his choices revealed to me WHO he REALLY is."



Well said. 

[disorderedsociety]

The closest I got to closure was, once she found the new guy, she texted me saying, thanks for everything, I hope you find happiness.

Really? In the midst of all the unhealthy behavior I get a text that makes it sound like shes the reasonable, sane one and I was the one who made the mistake in leaving. That's how it feels to me even still and I can't help it. It sucks. 

[Beach_Babe]

 I know someone whose BPD wife left him like that. She parted with the exact same words... .on the phone as she was banging his replacement. Its crazy

[Infared]

The closest I got to closure was, once she found the new guy, she texted me saying, thanks for everything, I hope you find happiness.

Really? In the midst of all the unhealthy behavior I get a text that makes it sound like shes the reasonable, sane one and I was the one who made the mistake in leaving. That's how it feels to me even still and I can't help it. It sucks. 

I went through similar.  I also had to cut her off when she started talking about the particulars of the relationship with the guy she cheated on me with and ran off to, while lying to me... .  Who in their right mind thinks I would want to hear ANYTHING about that?  It could just be atotally self-centered person,  but I think it's mental illness. ... .and yes ... .she did all these things and then one day just pops off a "hope you find happiness" comment, like she was someone I was sitting next to and chatting with on the bus.   Total Looney Tunes!

It's mental illness.

[disorderedsociety]

The closest I got to closure was, once she found the new guy, she texted me saying, thanks for everything, I hope you find happiness.

Really? In the midst of all the unhealthy behavior I get a text that makes it sound like shes the reasonable, sane one and I was the one who made the mistake in leaving. That's how it feels to me even still and I can't help it. It sucks. 

I went through similar.  I also had to cut her off when she started talking about the particulars of the relationship with the guy she cheated on me with and ran off to, while lying to me... .  Who in their right mind thinks I would want to hear ANYTHING about that?  It could just be atotally self-centered person,  but I think it's mental illness. ... .and yes ... .she did all these things and then one day just pops off a "hope you find happiness" comment, like she was someone I was sitting next to and chatting with on the bus.   Total Looney Tunes!

It's mental illness.

For sure mental illness. Its crazy how she, now that I think back, was magnetically attracted to him. They both were the few people they didn't have problems with (each other.) She'd find a way to demonize anyone and he would just cut people out like nothing. BPD + NPD I think.

[Beach_Babe]

Infared: well at least its better than the "f**k you and die" I got along with a middle finger. .

disordered: they sound like a match made in heaven.

[Trog]

"his choices revealed to me WHO he REALLY is."



Well said.  

Exactly. We are all on our own paths, for sometime, when you get mixed up with a disordered person you lose yourself in enmeshment and you stop believing in your own power, often you bend to their will to keep the peace, you negotiate, you stop doing things that make you happy, you stop talking to old friends, you begin to live their disfunction as if it were your own.

Then, they spit you out, and you're half BPD yourself, you've been coming from negotiation and lack and un fulfilment with your BPD for so long you totally forget your own power. You blame, like they blame, you blame her, the situation, if only you'd known x, if only you'd known y or done z differently. How could they do this to you?

The more time and attention you give it, the negativity of your relationship the more the pain cycle continues, even though they are nowhere around anymore. You can not get closure from them, even if they say things you want to here like my ex did one time, that I deserved better, it meant little to me because she said it, she also said other times I was scum, that my family was scum, those actual words. She is a negative person. She manifests a horrible life for herself, her thinking is toxic and from lack, and she brings down others around her. Me especially. She drunk my milkshake, to the point I didn't have any anymore and I was not giving her what she needs so now she'll be drinking someone else's milkshake.

Closure, or acceptance or forgiving or seeing the lesson from this relationship has NOTHING to do with her, that's as crazy as when I believed my happiness or self worth was derived from her. You get exactly what you need or wish for or create at any moment.

I've finally understood this now as a whole picture and yesterday evening I finally reached the point of truly forgiving my ex. She's mentally ill. That I attached myself to her was a mistake in one way but in another if I hadn't I would still be in that place where I let others drink my milkshake! That I let others define my sense of self worth. That is a disaster, it takes power from yourself and makes your world and life small and limiting.

When I was younger I believed I could achieve anything, that it was a question of mind, that I had manifested the good in my world. Very quickly she dismissed my philosophy and said I was ungreatful for all the luck I had in my life. The luck of having a good job, the luck of being intelligent, it was lucky that I had the ability to work hard and knuckle down. Despite knowing I sat for days at a table to get those grades, or practised a skill for 1000s of hours to get good at it, I started to feel bad about my achievements. She would point out people who were takers, with no money and no ambition and told me that could be me if it were not for my lucky breaks. She resented me coming from a poor background and succeeding, she came from a very wealthy background but to be fair, has not achieved much at all. She's a negative person and it's spreads from her to all around, she brings down her sisters and all around.

Yet something in me believed those words, that I was nothing special, that anything I had done was nothing special, she would mock my 'self made' image and in the end I downplayed my achievements, I stopped working so hard. Today I earn less than when I met her, but I have so much abundance flowing into my life right now and that's because of my changed mindset.

Maybe she came to show me just how powerful we each are as individuals, and that it's not luck, look what happened when I stopped believing in myself, stopped believing I had power.

We don't though, have power over them, you can not look to them for anything, let alone closure - you want to feel good about the end? Look for the lesson in the relationship and forgive your ex, for some reason, in our power, we needed or sought them out and they provided something valuable. It's a question of whether you can see it. Sometimes you have to look very closely!

[Infared]

Infared: well at least its better than the "f**k you and die" I got along with a middle finger. .

Well, that was just one odd moment. What made it so odd is that she was for the most part smug and cruel. Both went way out of their way to be immature and mean to me. ALL of her actions spoke to "f**k you and die" (in a really 7th-grade way)... .that made the Hallmark-Card comment seem like it floated in on a bubble from France... .and to her is was just normal and appropriate after the way she behaves.   

[Beach_Babe]

Infared:  What you've described is just crazy. I guess there is no closure with a disordered person

[Infared]

Infared:  What you've described is just crazy. I guess there is no closure with a disordered person

All I can say is that I could not find any closure with my pwBPD. For me it was sort of like a pw more than one personality at times. There was "good" C and "selfish, dishonest, evil" C.

Kind of hard to get anything from that experience. So, so unsettling and upsetting.

[Mayjar68]

Hiya beach babe I have sent you a message xxx

[Beach_Babe]

Trog: yeah mine said everything I had was due to luck too. How lucky I was compared to him. Thats rubbish, I worked hard for it as im sure you did.

[mgl210]

Define closure?

Sadly, you really won't get any. I used to think endlessly that I would get it. The best closure I so called get was when I found out my email got hacked into and emailed her and she wrote me back telling me to move on and that she had gotten married. This in fact keep in mind that she had ended our engagement over text on my birthday last year and totally stopped communicating with me over text last valentine's day... .

Be good to yourself... .

MGL

[Beach_Babe]

Define closure?

Sadly, you really won't get any. I used to think endlessly that I would get it. The best closure I so called get was when I found out my email got hacked into

did we date people in the same family?

[hibye]

she had already been in the rebound relationship () when we did closure. even though i wanted to tell her i know she is BPD etc etc i did not. i wished her happy new life with the new one and tried to swallow it without showing it. i was a gentleman and that freaked her out. she started asking questions about a friend of mine showing jealousy . a few phonecalls later she tried to take the upper hand saying i was being jealous and told her to stop calling me or else i would call her new bf and tell him she is insincere with him. a pretty good closure for me.

only thing i did after was having a public post about BPD relationships on my wall for a few weeks. i had her blocked on fb but i think she could use a second account to stalk me... .so i "showed " to her that i know... .and kind of informed her in case she does not know.

peace

[Beach_Babe]

hibye: did you ever hear from her again after that?

[hibye]

She sent a friend request to a cousin of mine. Told my cousin to refuse. + She called me from uknown number just to hear me.

[mgl210]

Define closure?

Sadly, you really won't get any. I used to think endlessly that I would get it. The best closure I so called get was when I found out my email got hacked into

did we date people in the same family?

Haha... .that's a good one... .LOL

[SummerStorm]

Closure doesnt come from them, its a process within us.

Wonderfully stated.  I tried to get closure and to get answers to the questions I had, but she was not willing to talk to me, and it basically all ended up being my fault, according to her. 

[Beach_Babe]

This is what I'm afraid of.

What happened exactly? How did you approach her?

[Freshstart2015]

Would a final "closure" conversation actually make me feel worse?

Anyone have experience with this?

Hey, I hope I'm not too Late in replying but I remember Nearly a year ago now my ex came Into the old store I used to work in. Naturally I had a bit of A panic reaction although I was starting to get used to her coming into my work and putting herself in front of me. This time there was probably a gap of a year since I'd seen her and weirdly enough I'd just came back from a holiday with friends to a family retreat where me and BPD ex had been some years previous where she had a few episodes which winded up here severly verbally abusing me. So this trip was a massive healing mission combined with holiday with friends.

Anyways, out of nowhere I beckon her to come over to me, looking back I honestly think it was more subconscious then anything.

She looks at me with a really off key look as if to say "what have I done now" (I think my forwardness caught her off guard) and then came over (with her son who I step fathered) and I she was like "... .Soo was up?" and I said "I know it's been a while but I don't think we shut the door properly after everything that happened, I want to say sorry for anything I did wrong in our time to gether" she was stunned.

She started crying as we carried on talking and I eventually said look I don't want you getting upset in front of your son so let's Leave this now and say goodbye. She was fairly Amicable but waited in her car in the parking lot for half an hour after so not sure what was going on there.

Needless to say l didn't see her at my work again before I left for a new job and didn't hear a single ghost text or 3am blank phonecall as was happening before. 

So personally my advice would be to face closure head on and see if they have the capacity to be rational enough to at least close the door properly, closure is only something you can give yourself but if you know deep down the other person can't help you anymore with closure it makes it a lot easier.

[Beach_Babe]

Freshstart: what would you suggest? My BPD  lives several hours away and said they never want to see me again. I also  believe I am blocked everywhere (fb, email, phone). Sadly I realize friendship is not possible due to the degree which I have been smeared (though I sincerely want one). What to do?

3 months NC have left me aching for closure. I am afraid of being raged at, ignored or having the police again threatened. Worse maybe getting this message via third parties.

What would you suggest? How do I approach this? No clue

[Freshstart2015]

Freshstart: what would you suggest? My BPD  lives several hours away and said they never want to see me again. I also  believe I am blocked everywhere (fb, email, phone). Sadly I realize friendship is not possible due to the degree which I have been smeared (though I sincerely want one). What to do?

3 months NC have left me aching for closure. I am afraid of being raged at, ignored or having the police again threatened. Worse maybe getting this message via third parties.

What would you suggest? How do I approach this? No clue

i completely understand how you feel. this is the point at which it starts to get real hard, the long term NC. Not just a few weeks but where you realize its for good not just for now.

It will be hard to gain closure from this situation for you as you wont get the chance to face them in person, yet. i honestly never thought id see my BPDex again but when i did i grabbed the chance when i coud.

there may be a point where he unblocks you and can be civil again, who knows. One thing is for sure your life is way too short to be waiting on an ex abusive partner to grant you the power to forgive yourself.

I have just gone to the other side of the world, completely out of my comfort zone for the last month. But, today something weird happened. After 2 and a half years of not being able to listen to a vast amount of music that was introduced to me by her i finally had the guts to listen to it all again. Sure, it was weird and hard at first but honestly within 20 minutes of deciding id had enough of letting the past keep me from having this music in the future and i felt great.

Something i learnt today, closure can come in so many forms not just the other person saying "i forgive you" but being able to brave the cold feelings and brave through what you dont want to do, go or listen to just because of the past.

[EaglesJuju]

This thread has reached its post limit, and is now closed. This is a worthwhile topic, and you are free to start a new thread to continue the conversation. Thanks for your understanding... .